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Post by texcat on Jun 6, 2012 21:16:49 GMT -5
Let's review:
Pleo declares that you are scum. 1. You are scum, and either Pleo is scum trying for town cred or he is truthful town. Almost equal chances here. 2. You are not scum. Pleo is lynched. 1 for 1 trades for scum are not good. This doesn't make any sense for Pleo.
Pleo declares that you are town. 1. You are scum, and hence Pleo is scum. This is possible, but seems like a big risk for scum to take. 2. You are town. Either scum Pleo lied, or truthful town Pleo town the truth. Equal chances here.
On the other hand Hal declares that you are town: We all assume you are town.
Hal declares you as scum: We lynch you, SCUM.
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Post by texcat on Jun 6, 2012 21:19:24 GMT -5
Not edited to correct (preview is your friend):
2. You are town. Either scum Pleo faked the claim, or truthful town Pleo told the truth. Equal chances here.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 6, 2012 21:49:08 GMT -5
If you fail to see that how Pleonast declaring me as town clears me, then you must think that Pleonast is lying. If you think he is lying, that would be a reason to vote him. I REALLY miss Special Ed. Why are you begging Pleo to investigate you instead of Hal? I trust Hal as town; and if he declared you as town it might mean something as far as your alignment is concerned. If Pleo declared you as town, it might or might not mean anything, depending on Pleo's alignment. AND it would mean nothing whatsoever about Pleo's alignment. I'm totally not getting your insistence that Pleo investigate you. I REALLY miss intelligence. Pleo is the one that Claimed on Day 0. I'm calling his bluff / asking him to put his money where his mouth is. Rinse Lather Repeat. OR ARE YOU TRYING TO DEFEND A SCUM PLEONAST BY SHIFTING ATTENTION TOWARDS HAL?
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Post by cassipietz on Jun 6, 2012 22:54:26 GMT -5
while I understand that it is good to know who is town...it is also good to know who is really the role they say they are-having some scummy results from investigations helps prove the claimed role in my mind. Why not investigate some of the people that others were throwing suspicions out about? That seems like it would be helpful. If we get the names of scum to vote for then we can quit mislynching people which sounds like a grand ol plan to me. I'll ask you the same questions I asked Archangel (and still unanswered by them): What is your plan for dealing with the players not participating? Are you going to lynch them all? Are you going to give them a pass? Flip a coin for each one? I'm actually doing something about them. But why not be doing something about the questionable subjects in play here? Did you not think that your credibility would be questioned? I wasn't convinced Hal was town/detective until I saw results from what he said...I can claim to be a detective and give a list of people who I say are town but what would I have to back me up and make people believe that I speak the truth? It seems investigations of suspicious people that people have been questioning would help prove my role...as opposed to people who have not really been mentioned. If you are lynched and are in fact town/detective it does not even prove that Meeko is scum it just proves that your early claim of a power role and your choice of people to investigate was not enough to save you. If you had not claimed a power role so early on people would not have been calling you out on it until later giving you more time to investigate and find a scum to help prove your role. So I guess...sorry if you are town (although I still think you are scum) but you just didn't play things in a way that convinced me... I would not even have my suspicion renewed about you were it not for this detective claim. You have asked in the past for explanations so I am doing my best to give them.
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Post by Silver Jan on Jun 7, 2012 1:04:58 GMT -5
Vote ArchangelThis is mainly because of her comments on the game being broken supposedly by Idle confirming the Masons and then forgetting that Lianne was killed at Night. I think that as scum she could quite easily have forgotten that because scum did not kill her, guiri killed her. Right now her vote is on a claimed detective, Pleo, who claimed on N0 and who has claimed early in the last couple of games I have played with him and has been truthful up to now. I know he could be lying this time but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I've already explained my Lianne comment and explained my case on Pleo. If you don't buy it, so be it. But please explain why you're suspicious because of my comment that I thought the game was broken. You've played with me many times, I called a game on LPP when I wasn't the moderator (because I'm a board administrator) for something less than mod-confirming the masons, and I called my own magnum opus when I accidentally mod-confirmed the masons. Perhaps I am just reading too much into it but you claimed that the game was broken, I took this to mean that you had seen something the rest of us hadn't and the only way to do this was by studying the game carefully. When you seemed surprised that Lianne hadn't been lynched it looked as if you had been skimming, the 2 differences didn't make sense to me. Either you are reading carefully or you aren't. I can imagine a scum forgetting that Lianne was NK'd because she was killed by a PFK and then scum trying to focus more on what to say about the game because they already know who they are. Mod confirmed Masons are more of a threat to Scum than they are to Town. I know it's convoluted reasoning but it just doesn't sit right with me. I apologise if I am totally wrong here.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 7, 2012 2:52:13 GMT -5
Pleonast - 6 votes (Meeko, richardbeckman, Archangel, Mahaloth, cassiepietz, michelehunter) Meeko - 3 votes (patricia, Pleonast, annetastic) Texcat - 3 votes (stairrirain, guiri, Septimus) JustbeingGinger - 1 vote (Colby11) CatInASuit - 1 vote (oldred) patricia - 1 vote (LadyRogue) Archangel - 1 vote (SilverJan)
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Post by septimus on Jun 7, 2012 4:46:57 GMT -5
I started the campaign against Pleo to force him to claim, and probably would have kept my vote on him if he claimed Doctor.
But he claimed Detective, a semi-testable role, and I ask those voting to Lynch him to hold off for another Day. Look instead at the case on texcat or start a new case altogether.
I agree there is a good chance that Pleo is Scum, but there is also a good chance that he is what he says he is: a Town Detective accumulating information for us. If he is Scum, there is no rush to Lynch. Eventually he'll die one way or the other and then we'll know whether to believe his Reveals.
If Pleo is Townie, Scum may Kill him toNight, but let's force them to waste one of their Night Kills! Let's not risk the possible misLynch of a genuine Detective.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 7, 2012 5:51:17 GMT -5
I started the campaign against Pleo to force him to claim, and probably would have kept my vote on him if he claimed Doctor. But he claimed Detective, a semi-testable role, and I ask those voting to Lynch him to hold off for another Day. Look instead at the case on texcat or start a new case altogether. I agree there is a good chance that Pleo is Scum, but there is also a good chance that he is what he says he is: a Town Detective accumulating information for us. If he is Scum, there is no rush to Lynch. Eventually he'll die one way or the other and then we'll know whether to believe his Reveals. If Pleo is Townie, Scum may Kill him toNight, but let's force them to waste one of their Night Kills! Let's not risk the possible misLynch of a genuine Detective. Can you elaborate on how you consider the role to be semi-testable?
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Post by Archangel on Jun 7, 2012 6:20:16 GMT -5
I've already explained my Lianne comment and explained my case on Pleo. If you don't buy it, so be it. But please explain why you're suspicious because of my comment that I thought the game was broken. You've played with me many times, I called a game on LPP when I wasn't the moderator (because I'm a board administrator) for something less than mod-confirming the masons, and I called my own magnum opus when I accidentally mod-confirmed the masons. Perhaps I am just reading too much into it but you claimed that the game was broken, I took this to mean that you had seen something the rest of us hadn't and the only way to do this was by studying the game carefully. When you seemed surprised that Lianne hadn't been lynched it looked as if you had been skimming, the 2 differences didn't make sense to me. Either you are reading carefully or you aren't. I can imagine a scum forgetting that Lianne was NK'd because she was killed by a PFK and then scum trying to focus more on what to say about the game because they already know who they are. Mod confirmed Masons are more of a threat to Scum than they are to Town. I know it's convoluted reasoning but it just doesn't sit right with me. I apologise if I am totally wrong here. Apology accepted. I've already explained this, again, if you don't believe me, you don't, but this is not in character of anything I've ever done. Paulwhoisaghost's game that I pulled on LPP, I pulled because he accidentally gave me information that would cause my team to win. My game on FB I pulled because I accidentally mod-confirmed the masons and it totally unbalanced the game. I don't want to win a game that's unbalanced.
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Post by michelehunter on Jun 7, 2012 7:59:03 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused about something here, hopefully you guys can clear it up for me. Never in any games that I have played before, and although they have never been to this extent the general idea is the same. Anyway...... Would a night end before all claims were in? I mean all scum votes, detective peeks, Doctor protections? In the ones I've played before, night ends when all night claims were received. Just curious as Pleo didn't have time to investigate one night thanks
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Post by CatInASuit on Jun 7, 2012 8:17:04 GMT -5
Apologies all.
Holiday is supposed to mean you have more time free, not less.
Brief check shows I'm not dead yet which is good.
Time for a re-read unless anyone has the Cliff's notes version.
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Post by Archangel on Jun 7, 2012 8:41:52 GMT -5
Michelehunter, some mods hold Night until all actions are in and some make a hard time deadline and if you miss it you miss it. I don't remember how Idle usually handles this.
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Post by kagemoto on Jun 7, 2012 8:58:49 GMT -5
I'm trying to get caught up with Day 5... but here's a question to Pleonast.
You were away during Day 3 and Night 3, but you came back in Day 4, and did not claim Detective until Day 5. At the time of Day 4 you already have 2 of the 3 names (who you claimed to have investigated in Nights 1 & 2), and if you are Town, there was a chance that you may get Nightkilled in Night 4 without disclosing your investigation results.
Why did you wait for one more Day to claim?
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Post by Archangel on Jun 7, 2012 9:00:25 GMT -5
Unvote Pleonast
Michelehunter's comment about missing a night plus Colby unclaiming makes me think the evidence is leaning very slightly in Pleo's favor, which makes me willing to abide by Septimus's plan. (The reason Michelehunter's comment swayed me is that I don't think a false detective would claim s/he missed a night when s/he is making up results to begin with. Nobody bother with "scum wouldn't do that," please. I'm not saying never, I'm saying probabilities.)
Pleonast, I would still like to know why you chose to investigate newbie lurkers who are probably dropouts rather than experienced lurkers who are more likely to be lurking as a scum tactic.
I would also ask you if you've played with Meeko when he was scum before. If so, is this how he played?
I'm going to have to vote Meeko or Texcat today because they're the only other lynches that will tell us anything, and I'm not happy with it because I don't see the case on Texcat and my strong feeling is that Meeko is having a meltdown, not scum. But in a lynch like LadyRogue's, the odds are very high that one of the other front runners is scum.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Jun 7, 2012 9:11:34 GMT -5
<snip> Night will end on MONDAY at FIVE PM (AZ time). <snip> NIGHT TWO WILL END ON MONDAY AT 3PM (Arizona time). <snip> Night will end on Saturday at 8AM. <snip> Night will end on SUNDAY, at 7PM (AZ time). <snip> Looks pretty clear that Nights have a set ending. If I had a night action and I knew I was not going to have access to the internet for an entire night, I would at least PM Idle with my Night action as late in the Day as possible asking if that was OK. Given that Pleonast is only investigating players in the background, it is unlikely his target would get lynched that day.
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Post by CatInASuit on Jun 7, 2012 9:16:16 GMT -5
Hmm, given the number of roles appearing...its JSexton time.
JSexton Points are a method of assigning points to roles to work out a roughly balanced game. It's a useful guide, but should never be taken as more than that.
Idle said 60 players initially, so I will go off that.
Town: Vanilla (1) Docs (3) Detectives(4) Masons(3) Crazy Townie (2)
Scum (4.5) Scum with bonus NK (7) PFK (4.5) against the town.
Lets start with 10 scum, 2 scum Bonus NK, 34 town 3 docs, 3 detective, 5 masons, 2 CT, 1 PFK
Scum total: 45 + 14 + 4.5 (PFK) = 63.5 Town Total: 34 + 9 + 12 + 15 + 4 = 74
That's heavily balanced against the scum, even with multiple kills at Night, so either there are more scum or less Town power roles.
So let's cut the number of power roles. 10 scum, 2 scum Bonus NK, 1 PFK, 36 town 2 docs, 2 detectives, 5 masons, 2 CT
Scum total: 45 + 14 + 4.5 (PFK) = 63.5 Town Total: 36 + 6 + 8 + 15 + 4 = 69
Still a little balanced against the scum, but within the realms of possibility.
Lets try again upping the number of scum. So 12 scum, 2 Bonus Scum NK, 1 PFK, 2 CT, 5 Masons, 3 Docs, 3 detectives, 32 vanilla.
Scum total: 54 + 14 + 4.5 = 72.5 Town Total: 32 + 9 + 12 + 15 + 4 = 72
Hmm, that's a lot closer.
I'm leaning on the more scum and more power roles, than less, so I reckon, we have 14ish scum in total with
1 PFK 5 Masons 3 Detectives 3 Doctors 2 Crazy Townies 32 vanilla town
NOTE: This is a educated guess nothing more.
However. it means it is likely that Pleonast is a detective along with Hal and francescaj.
Unfortunately, it also means we are probably down to our last doc. I would expect to see dead power roles on Day 6.
Also, unless someone would like to counter claim Pleonast, I would seriously consider unvoting.
Feel free to discuss.
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Post by jlrinmke on Jun 7, 2012 10:00:38 GMT -5
I do not know what to contribute here. I have voted at least once for Pleonast, which means I was not surprised to see myself on the list of people he (or she, can't keep genders straight here) investigated.
But since all I did was basically vote, and I have little decent analysis to offer, I can't imagine I'm any kind of threat in this game. So wasting an investigation on me seems pretty silly. Add to that the explanation of newby cuddling (or whatever it was called), and I am very tempted to vote Pleonast again.
I agree that the thicket of posts between Pleo and Meeko is making me dizzy. Setpimus' strategy of having scum use a night kill on Pleo is fine, except if he really is a detective, that pretty much sucks for town.
Would it be bad strategy to have Hal investigate Pleonast?
Also, if Pleonast ends up a dead detective, does that tell us anything about Meeko? Are the two of them tangling because of personality or because of roles?
I do not have a vote yet, but will continue to read things from while I was away to see if I can figure anything out more rationally.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Jun 7, 2012 10:08:31 GMT -5
<snip> However. it means it is likely that Pleonast is a detective along with Hal and francescaj. <snip> I do not think the argument supports that conclusion. The conclusion would be that it is likely there is another detective, possibly Pleonast or possibly someone else. As I have come to understand the role, a good detective stays hidden as long as possible and bread crumbs a lot revealing him or herself only to stop a mislynch. So it does not strike me as much of a reach that we still have an as yet unclaimed detective among us. I was reviewing Pleonast's votes while you were posting that analysis. These are the votes Pleonast has cast in the order they were cast (I'm leaving the unvotes out) Day One: Meeko, CatinaSuit, StarrirainDay Two: dizzymrslizzy, mahaloth, cassipietz, wombat99Day Three: no votes Day Four: Lady Rogue, MeekoDay Five: Starrirain, MeekoNine different players, two of whom are confirmed town, none of whom are confirmed scum, and only one of whom is currently under any serious suspicion of being scum. In the meantime he "investigates" supermel, dottiebob, and jrlrinmke. To read his posts, he clearly understands the game inside and out. But with all of that understanding and the power of a detective, what has he given town? And there is still the fact that he claimed a power role right off the bat and has survived four nights without being killed despite what appears to be a shortage of doctors (one being killed the first night and a second belonging to a seemingly non playing player the first couple of nights). Maybe Texcat is scum, I do not know. But I find the case against her to be weak, based on player personality and style more than on evidence of scum. I'm leaving my vote on Pleonast unless a better argument comes along.
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Post by CatInASuit on Jun 7, 2012 10:21:27 GMT -5
Gut feeling more than anything, but IMHO septimusII's posts read like someone trying to force Pleonast to claim on Day 5. The initial posts is almost like he is trying to get Pleonast to claim Doctor or VT.
As for those saying Pleonast cannot be a detective, I've seen it played this way before and the same kind of results given, so saying otherwise is just a null tell.
Anyway, subsequent posts back right off on voting Pleonast but are insisting that Doctors should not protect Pleonast.
Ther is one problem with this in that we don't know how many doctors there are, maybe 2 or 3, maybe more, but septimus has it as a given that there is at least one more doctor. We can't know that as town, but it would be very obvious to scum, especially if they had been blocked last Night.
Hmm, for the moment
Vote: septimus II
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 7, 2012 11:32:36 GMT -5
As for unanswering your question, the way you turned that around on me is a classic scum tactic, which is why I'm not entirely sure I'm going to unvote you. I don't see how bugging someone to answer a pertinent question is scummy. Especially in a game when so many players are not posting. Pleo is the one that Claimed on Day 0. I'm calling his bluff / asking him to put his money where his mouth is. But you're not. How many players have to point that out to you before it sinks in? But why not be doing something about the questionable subjects in play here? Did you not think that your credibility would be questioned? I wasn't convinced Hal was town/detective until I saw results from what he said...I can claim to be a detective and give a list of people who I say are town but what would I have to back me up and make people believe that I speak the truth? It seems investigations of suspicious people that people have been questioning would help prove my role...as opposed to people who have not really been mentioned. If you are lynched and are in fact town/detective it does not even prove that Meeko is scum it just proves that your early claim of a power role and your choice of people to investigate was not enough to save you. If you had not claimed a power role so early on people would not have been calling you out on it until later giving you more time to investigate and find a scum to help prove your role. So I guess...sorry if you are town (although I still think you are scum) but you just didn't play things in a way that convinced me... I would not even have my suspicion renewed about you were it not for this detective claim. You have asked in the past for explanations so I am doing my best to give them. Thank you for explaining your thinking. More players need to do this. You're approaching the game wrong. Playing to preserve yourself is not the point of the game. We win or lose based on our team. Instead, the goal is doing what you can to improve the chances of our team winning. As a Detective, my lifespan is going to be short no matter what. So, instead of using my limited number of investigations on players who most players have already made their own decision about, I've investigated players we have nothing to go on. They might not seem helpful to you now, but after I get killed in one or two Nights, knowing the team of those players is going to be extremely useful. Sure we can wait for the mod to revolve players into those roles, but I'd rather not depend on a tactic that requires townies to die. You were away during Day 3 and Night 3, but you came back in Day 4, and did not claim Detective until Day 5. At the time of Day 4 you already have 2 of the 3 names (who you claimed to have investigated in Nights 1 & 2), and if you are Town, there was a chance that you may get Nightkilled in Night 4 without disclosing your investigation results. Why did you wait for one more Day to claim? Because I was using the same tactic I was using the whole game--bluffing scum. They hadn't killed me on any previous Night, there was no reason to think they'd suddenly killed me on the next. Plus, having only two town results isn't really enough to justify a Detective claim. Bottom line: I was willing to risk one more Night for a 50% increase in the number of results. Pleonast, I would still like to know why you chose to investigate newbie lurkers who are probably dropouts rather than experienced lurkers who are more likely to be lurking as a scum tactic. That's a fair question. It probably reflects a bias on my part. I look through the list of players and picked ones I felt I know nothing about. The favors players I haven't played with before. I think that's somewhat reasonable, since I think experienced players are more likely to pop back into the game, versus newbies purely dropping out. That's heavily balanced against the scum, even with multiple kills at Night, so either there are more scum or less Town power roles. Underlining added--how are you adjusting the point system to account for multiple scum kills? That seems like a huge bonus to scum. I do not think the argument supports that conclusion. The conclusion would be that it is likely there is another detective, possibly Pleonast or possibly someone else. You skipped an important part of CatInASuit's logic: "unless someone would like to counter claim Pleonast". Your counting is strange. Meeko: unknown. CatInASuit: unknown. Starrirain (1): town. dizzymrslizzy: unknown. mahaloth: town. cassipietz: unknown. wombat99 (1): town. Lady Rogue (1): town. Starrirain (2): unknown. So nine players, four of them known town, five of them unknown. I'm not sure what the point is, but at least get the numbers right. Three town, confirmed sooner or later. Once you include Hal's town results, we've effectively doubled the number of Masons. This is a good thing. That says more about the choices scum have made than anything on my part. Did you read guiri's case from ToDay?
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Post by phoenixphyre on Jun 7, 2012 11:50:09 GMT -5
I keep going over what Meeko and Pleo say about and to each other. I get the impression they have played together before and that their personalities and game play styles clash. Because of this part of me wonders if they aren't scum buddies using this to their advantage especially considering that Pleonast refuses to investigate Meeko. I read this and had a totally different thought...they are both experienced, both have played together, and they are both playing the rest of us. I don't see the styles clashing, I see them feeding off each other. A classic he said, she said, till we get tired of listening to the bickering and walk away, and they both go free. . BTW, if/when Pleo does flip Scum, I won't consider Meeko 100% confrimed Town. It's possible these two are competing for Best two-Scum play-acting of 2012. It's better to use an investigation on someone we have little to no info on. Ummm yes but I don't see this happening. I suppose the both of you are just going to ignore my suggestion to try and build productive cases outside of each other. I for one am moving on with the Day as there is still much time left before anyone will be lynched or investigated. Asking for things that aren't going to happen for yet a few more real life days seems unproductive to me. Why are you begging Pleo to investigate you instead of Hal? I trust Hal as town; and if he declared you as town it might mean something as far as your alignment is concerned. If Pleo declared you as town, it might or might not mean anything, depending on Pleo's alignment. AND it would mean nothing whatsoever about Pleo's alignment. I'm totally not getting your insistence that Pleo investigate you. ...others I am not sure of. My problem is...the entire show has been Pleonast and Meeko, and I need more than what I have seen to go on.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Jun 7, 2012 12:07:59 GMT -5
Every quote has been snipped. You skipped an important part of CatInASuit's logic: "unless someone would like to counter claim Pleonast". I do not see how that is relevant to the logic. He demonstrates that there is a strong possibility of another detective and then concludes that Pleonast is a detective rather than concluding that there is probably another detective who may or may not be Pleonast. There is no logic there that leads to the conclusion "Pleonast is a detective." Your counting is strange. Meeko: unknown. CatInASuit: unknown. Starrirain (1): town. dizzymrslizzy: unknown. mahaloth: town. cassipietz: unknown. wombat99 (1): town. Lady Rogue (1): town. Starrirain (2): unknown. So nine players, four of them known town, five of them unknown. I'm not sure what the point is, but at least get the numbers right. My bad. I was confused by Wombat99 still being in the game. Mahaloth's confirmation is firm but not mod confirmed, so I forgot to add him, I agree in the context I should have. Three town, confirmed sooner or later. Once you include Hal's town results, we've effectively doubled the number of Masons. This is a good thing. Sure, it is good, but given your obvious skill, it seems you could have found a scum by now. That says more about the choices scum have made than anything on my part. Yes, and why would scum ignore you so? Because they know you are scum. Did you read guiri's case from ToDay? Yes. To me the only thing in the entire case against Texcat is her question to Hal about not revealing a day early. I am still unsure what to make of that.
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Post by wombat99 on Jun 7, 2012 12:12:47 GMT -5
Am I wandering alone in the wilderness - am I the only one who suspects Hal? I can picture it happening like this: Night 1 - hey, newbie scum, you do realize this game is going to go on for a couple of months and take a lot of your time, maybe more than you bargained for, anybody want to volunteer to be sacrificed? ( Endhoot and Lauriern volunteer) which addresses this concern: People are so worried about scum claiming detective that they no longer believe the detective. That has been going on for ages so scum can claim detective and it's all WIFOM. It's been said here, Hal gave up 2 scum just to prove he is Town when actually he is scum. Perhaps it could happen, if I had been one of those scum I would have fought tooth and nail to be alive. Hal is "confirmed" as Detective and gains our trust. But what he's really doing is embedding himself firmly in Town. Hal has not revealed any scum investigations since then. Maybe it's been bad luck. He has "investigated" oldred on Night 3 and Colby11v.2 on Night 4. He does back up both results with reasons why he investigated them and they are reasonable. But now it is possible that we have 3 "confirmed townie" scum in our midst. Now on to Night 4: snipped About this time, I am wanting detectives to go ahead and claim tomorrow... Along with whoever I investigate... [/size] [/quote] Scum now want to find out who the real Detectives are. Colby11v.2 calls for all Detectives to claim and reveal their investigations. If he had not voted for JustBeingGinger randomly and been questioned on that, which forced him to unclaim, it might have worked and they might have flushed out a real Detective claim. *If* it had worked, our Doctor(s) would have had to choose between protecting Hal (wasted protection), Colby (wasted protection), and the newly claimed Detective. And anyone else they thought needed protection. One question is - how many Days could Hal go with out "investigating" scum and maintain his credibility? Although, depending on how many scum are left, maybe they can afford to sacrifice another one. I realize that none of this is provable. But isn't it dangerous to go much further assuming that Hal is a Detective because if he is scum, he is going to do a lot more damage, embedded in Town? If he keeps "investigating" and "confirming" scum as Town for a few more days, we are going to be mislynching Town more often because our pool of suspects will be smaller. So I am going to Vote Colby11For the whole business of claiming then unclaiming Detective and giving weak reasons for his actions And because knowing Colby's alignment will confirm Hal. I am detailing my thoughts here because, remember, first ever game! I have no idea if I am being overly paranoid or overimaginative. I have no idea if scum typically plot like this. I welcome someone to pick this apart and tell me why I'm way off the reservation. Some comments have indicated that it would be crazy for scum to attempt and it's just not done. And the game would be a lot easier to play if I just trusted Hal's claim and was guided by his investigations. So... comments, thoughts, observations, please.
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Post by Colby11 on Jun 7, 2012 12:19:59 GMT -5
Unvote JustbeingGinger
Vote Texcat
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Meeko or Texcat lynched. But, I feel like Meeko is more likely to be town, so my vote is on Texcat.
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Post by Colby11 on Jun 7, 2012 12:22:10 GMT -5
@wombat
The reason why I did claim is because I did not want a doctor to waste their protection on me. I would rather have them protect Pleonast or Hal at this point, especially since i am not a detective. Pretending to be one was wrong, and I was only doing it to draw the scum to kill me.. Which they may still do, because I am a confirmed town. And if you want to kill me to prove Hal, then go for it
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 7, 2012 12:30:13 GMT -5
Am I wandering alone in the wilderness - am I the only one who suspects Hal? There's definitely a chance Hal is scum, especially when we're in a huge game with double-digits scum numbers. But the thing is, Detective claims will always resolve themselves. Real Detectives will be Night-killed by scum. They might go after likely-to-be unprotected townies for a while, but eventually the stream of townies confirmed and scum exposed will force them to kill the Detective. Until we get some evidence that Hal is scum, it's much better to assume they're being truthful. I think all the real Detectives have claimed. How many times will this false idea keep popping up? A scum falsely claiming Detective can produce true results just as well as a real Detective. If colby turns out to be scum, it will disprove Hal's claim. But if colby turns out to be town, it won't prove anything about Hal. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It's really frustrating when players don't even understand the basics of how the game works.
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Post by cassipietz on Jun 7, 2012 12:43:35 GMT -5
You're approaching the game wrong. Playing to preserve yourself is not the point of the game. We win or lose based on our team. Instead, the goal is doing what you can to improve the chances of our team winning. As a Detective, my lifespan is going to be short no matter what. So, instead of using my limited number of investigations on players who most players have already made their own decision about, I've investigated players we have nothing to go on. They might not seem helpful to you now, but after I get killed in one or two Nights, knowing the team of those players is going to be extremely useful. But I don't see it as approaching the game wrong or as me playing to "preserve myself" I think you could have helped the team more by laying low a bit more if you ARE a detective...waiting until you had some info that would help give you credibility as a detective WOULD have benefited the team as a whole...I guess the thing that bothers me the most is that you say you have not investigated the person that you claim is scum...IF you ARE a detective and you are wrong about Meeko that investigation could HELP the TEAM. This is really the thing that bothers me the most.
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Post by wombat99 on Jun 7, 2012 12:43:51 GMT -5
If colby turns out to be scum, it will disprove Hal's claim. But if colby turns out to be town, it won't prove anything about Hal. Point taken.
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Post by Hal Briston on Jun 7, 2012 12:44:42 GMT -5
And because knowing Colby's alignment will confirm Hal. No, it wouldn't. If I were scum, I'd still know that Colby11 was town. It'd be in my best interest to "investigate town" a couple of times, otherwise I'd spend the whole game tossing my scumbuddies to the wolves.
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Post by wombat99 on Jun 7, 2012 12:45:58 GMT -5
It's really frustrating when players don't even understand the basics of how the game works. And P.S. - imagine how frustrating it is to *be* that player who doesn't even understand how the game works.
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