Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
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Post by Parzival on Sept 24, 2012 11:47:57 GMT -5
Are you positive of that vote count?
I saw Merestil Haye place a vote this morning that isn't on that list.
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 24, 2012 11:48:01 GMT -5
On Pleonast. I last commented on Pleo's claim in D01.183. I noted then that on balance I was inclined to at least give him a chance to prove himself. One reason was to see how he handled himself in the Night – his power does not (at least as claimed) count Night posts, so he could have provided us with analysis at Night and still investigated himelf in the Day. Since then, Pleo has changed course and gone from low volume posting to high. this is quite in line with Pleo's known attitudes and opinions, at least as I understand them. However, it does mean readjusting what I said above, because if he continues on his present course, Pleo will reach his wincon before he can make his third investigation, and that is a problem. Pleo has to investigate a player three Nights in a row to get the results published. Since there were no actions on N0 (except for Mercenary bids) that means the earliest he can get his results published is the Dawn of Day 4, and that only if he investigates the same player on N1, N2 and N3. However, if he continues the way he is going he will win the game at the end of Day 3. Once he has won, what has he got left to play for? He has his prize, has no particular need for Town (or Mafia) to win, and his active presence in the game may change the result. To that end, I believe that, once he wins, he should leave the game. Only there's no mechanism for him to leave in his wincon. There is precedent for third party nonhostile players who win the game to leave it. The example I am most familiar with is the Malazan game. Twenty of the players were on their own, but could forge (and break) alliances, manoevre for advantage and win. Four players, however, weren't interested in the main struggle. They were fighting among themselves for the position of King in Chains. The last one of those four standing was the winner of their game, and was announced as having won at the appropriate point. (Storyteller took that particular crown.) In Undying War, the Thief and the Mercenary had a private battle. Julie the Thief won and skipped out of the game. The fact that Pleo doesn't leave the game after achieving his claimed wincon makes me a little sceptical about the whole claim. This compares with Mahaloth's claim, where he must convert to some other wincon in order to have a chance at winning. By changing wincon it gives him a reason to fight on, something I don't see in Pleo's claim. Also, by going active, Pleo has relinquished control over who he will investigate. He can't control whether or not any particular poster is in the bottom 20% of posters, no matter how that 20% are calculated. If he investigates JustBeingGinger on Night 1 (I believe JBG has yet to post, with 1 hour left in the Day at the time of writing) and Tomorrow she turns up and posts a lot, he can't then investigate her a second time on N2. That means he has to start again with someone else. It's quite possible that he never gets to have his results published. In D01.504 Pleo outlines how he thinks he should proceed. His plan is to spend two Nights investigating a player and then announce the results and move on. I have serious reservations about this. My main worry is that, even granting that Pleo will live after he has achieved his wincon, we will have no reason to believe him – he is not Town so why would we believe what he has to say? If Pleo were willing to spend a third use of his power on the player he investigates, we would at least have objective verification of the player's name, alignment and designation (which, for these purposes, I assume would be from Pleo's point of view). There is the issue that “designation” is a subjective quality; that is it depends on the viewpoint of the observer. That means we need a confirmation of the reporter before we can assess what the reported designation means. I'll look into that further after Dusk. A table might be handy. In summary, I'm getting a little uneasy about Pleo now – the more he talks the less I trust him. I guess we'll have to come back to this after Nightfall.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 24, 2012 11:50:14 GMT -5
Whoa board's acting weird. Tried to quote Mhaye's posted and the board edited it instead. Whoops.
Vote was fixed, as in, I did see the vote but forgot to record it.
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Post by Pleonast on Sept 24, 2012 11:51:21 GMT -5
On a very quick skim, this post caught my eye. Can't quote properly. KidV What about Pleo? Your 180 makes a little less sense knowing you have a chance to kill him toNight. Under what circumstances do you think a kill is better than an investigation? Instead of killing a player, KidV should do a full investigation of a player of their own choice. Your push for KidV is way too bloodthirsty for town. unvote sinjinvote guiri
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Post by sinjin on Sept 24, 2012 11:52:42 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more scummy the KidVermicious bid looks to me. We have to accept that he made the high bid since no counter-claim. And for now accept the number (don't think he'd lie about that regardless of alignment). But we're going with just his say, even though he we don't know his alignment, that we should go on what he says. I realize that maybe most people are actually voting Mahaloth because they want to, not to 'save' KidV, but I don't think Mahaloth is scum. Such a high bid, essentially 'forcing' us to bandwagon on someone else and letting scum hide there, while gaining control of the merc, seems enough like a scummy ploy to me to: vote KidVermicious I don't like this vote at all. If KidV is telling the truth about his merc bid, and I guess I do cause why else post what he did, then you and two others are driving a lynch against the majority of voters. I don't know if Mahaloth is hostile third-party or scum, but I absolutely believe he is lying about his pm.
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
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Post by Parzival on Sept 24, 2012 11:52:55 GMT -5
By placing a high bid, KidV, you had to know you might end up asking us to bandwagon another player. It's an anti-town move, since there's apparently no other way to keep you alive. Am I 100% sure you're scum? no. I realize it's a risk, and it's kind of crazy if only three people end up actually causing a lynch Day 1.
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
Posts: 201
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Post by Parzival on Sept 24, 2012 11:54:56 GMT -5
sinjin, do you think there's validity to the idea that scum would make a move? He can absolutely be telling the truth about his bid and still be scum.
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
Posts: 201
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Post by Parzival on Sept 24, 2012 11:56:42 GMT -5
On second thought, I'm not going to be around enough to deal with being the hammer if its.
unvote KidVermicious
But I still think it could be a scummy ploy.
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2012 11:57:16 GMT -5
By placing a high bid, KidV, you had to know you might end up asking us to bandwagon another player. It's an anti-town move, since there's apparently no other way to keep you alive. Am I 100% sure you're scum? no. I realize it's a risk, and it's kind of crazy if only three people end up actually causing a lynch Day 1. I honestly didn't anticipate the need to claim it, Parz. Swear to god. And for a member of a scum team that (presumably) already has at least a kill and who knows what other powers to risk one of their own on Day One in order to force a bandwagon... you're ascribing Machiavellian foresight to me that nobody has. I mean, that's 9-11 Truther level paranoia, right there. You don't see that?
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2012 12:03:58 GMT -5
IT'S 10:02 POLLUX YOU BASTARD GASTARD, WHERE'S MY DUSK COLOR???
I'm not handling the suspense well, am I?
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Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 24, 2012 12:04:08 GMT -5
Day's Over. Night thread will be up soon.
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2012 12:04:35 GMT -5
Soon? SOON?
:: explodes ::
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 16, 2012 1:52:03 GMT -5
Vote Mahaloth I am also voting him because he said he was going to kill someone on N1. That just gave me goosebumps. With so little information he wants to kill someone and that person would most likely be Town. I will make a Townie-sided kill to the best of my suspicion This is a horrible idea, why would you do this? You have a one-shot kill, and you're going to expend it firing into a crowd rather than wait until you have a decent read on someone? I can't believe that a desire to help Town win is motivating this behavior. Vote mahaloth i don't understand this line of reasoning. how many times have we had games that have had true vigs and didn't blink an eyelash when they killed a player every Night. now you're complaining about one kill? the words sound townie but inconsistent with previous games. Vote Silver JanVote KidVermiciousVoting for people that sound too Townie, he was right about KidV though, well sort of right. Gnarly- What does 'making waves' mean? Then we can get to the discussion as to whether I'm making any and whether making them are not falls in the suspect, pro-town, or null tell area of the spectrum of play. I also find your post regarding Bill to be interesting. For me, it isn't the low number of posts from Bill that are disconcerting. It is the lack of substance to the few that he's made. This is Bill we're talking about. He can see through a game set up a mile away, and often quite early in the game. Now perhaps he's just not finding his usual insightful grip on things this game, but trying to pass it off as a null tell smacks of you trying to casually cover his ass. And that's enough to get the juices flowing for now. Vote Gnarly Vote Bill A poke at Bill, and we'll see if Gnarly makes good on his smear and can build a case against me. I say he can't and I'm calling his bluff. voting me for saying you're suspicious? smear? you disagree that scum doesn't pursue such tactics? making waves is saying something controversial, critically discussed and potentially voted for. you're in my list of suspicious not necessarily scummy players. you could well believe you have a great power and are trying to lie low. your response is overboard. too defensive. you're moving up. furthermore, your memory about Bill seems foggy. you stopped playing for a while so you might think what you remember of him is still the same. i've played with Bill in about a dozen games here, on the Geeb and Facebook, i believe. he does this ALL the time. check past games for yourself. we all praise his scumhunting but saying he can "spot a setup a mile away" is too much. smacks of snuggling. Vote: Cookies [/color] oh my OMGUS!!! nice touch voting me in case i actually voted you. i didn't even say i would make a case. i was just going to reread your posts. now, you've given me ammo with this post and incentive for me to really make a case against you.[/quote] This post looks as if he made a case but didn't actually. you've done mucked up the analogy since Wilma is the one that woke up dead how does one wake up dead? I was giving Inner a hard time D2 because he was trying to convince people that Peekers was the Nexus, but I didn't, and still don't understand how Peekers would have died N1 if he was the Nexus especially when he didn't leave his room!! have you just softclaimed tracker? ---------------------- Meeko, why only expose dizzymrslizzy and not the others? and, no, i'm not asking you to expose the others. So what were you actually asking then? These posts just smack of scum to me, or at the very least hostile 3rd Party Vote gnarlycharlie
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