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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 4, 2012 1:14:29 GMT -5
Oh town vigilante Please be careful where you shoot tonight. We cannot afford any further losses. Kill someone who isnt posting. Bringing this up again. It begs the question if he isn't the alleged force that can assist an alleged Vig, because he plans to be busy trying to burn some power on Ginger as he telegraphed he was going to do. Of course it is all WIFOM.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Oct 4, 2012 2:47:57 GMT -5
Ok fine, I edited the PM and the hostile part, I don't understand the whole hostile versus non-hostile part. I am town, I can reassure you of that. I am a hostile but I have no idea if that is pro or anti scum. Am I hostile towards everyone or just scum? I edited the designation and the part where I underlined and colored and bolded, because it did not come over with a cut and paste. I do see my power as sort of dangerous, I can save the wrong person or lynch the wrong person. I would rather not make the judgement call myself, but I don't trust anyone at this point or their opinion. This is at least 80-100% lies. Odds are extremely bad that she's town due to how few of us there are. Further, getting rid of "hostile" means she is anti-town because she's not town. She is not a non-hostile third party and she's not town. And, by the by, I pointed out she's likely scummeriffic and was promptly told that I had no idea what I was talking about.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Oct 4, 2012 2:55:40 GMT -5
I am not entirely comfortable with my power seeing that I am town. If I was to stop a lynch, how would I know if they were scum or not. I don't want to save a scum and I don't have a magic ball to see people's alignment... I don't trust a claim 100% until it is mod confirmed and well at that point my powers are useless. This is also lies, because she's clearly not town. A third party wouldn't be so timid about her power because she has no known team to try to avoid hurting. So not only is she lying about her hostility, but it's almost completely certain that the hostility is toward the town, not the scums. In the event of my death, and I can't respond anymore or correct/update my opinion, it is presently very sure she cannot survive the game. You may give her some little time to reverse that opinion and explain her lies if you wish. I am in no rush. But this is almost bulletproof here, more confidence than I really should have in an early game lynch.
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Post by crys on Oct 4, 2012 7:00:28 GMT -5
That does not necessarily equate to her being Hostile. It may just make her a mystery wrapped in an enigma, steeped in Women being from Mars, etc. Like I say, it's the only way her play makes sense to me. I'm open to hearing other explanations, but I can't play under the assumption that her play DOESN'T make sense. I have to assume that other players will act logically, or this game becomes a game of chance. We might very well have 17(?) Third Parties in this game. If that is true and this is going to be your approach any time you catch wind of someone who might be one, the Scum should be thrilled. Assuming you're not Scum, which I still kinda think you might be. So we should give the third parties a free ride and just hope they're telling the truth when they say they aren't Hostile? That'll thrill them, I'm sure. The answer is for 3rd parties who really are interested in helping Town to stop claiming. Throwing themselves on the mercy of Town only makes sense in an open game where the roles and wincons are known and we can verify that they are who they say they are. This is a closed game, so anybody who isn't Town isn't to be trusted, full stop. I don't see any other logical way to approach it. I'm proposing to Crys that she can buy time by not biting people, and maybe another power will appear that can verify her. If she is infecting other players, she's going to force me and probably a lot of other players to assume she's Hostile and act on that assumption. If she keeps it in her pants, we're not forced to act immediately on that assumption. Crys, are you willing to go along with that?[/quote] So you are basically asking me to not play the game....yeah that is really gonna happen. I am beginning to agree withothers you are scum or a hostile 3rd party. Sent from my SCH-I405 using proboards
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 4, 2012 8:22:46 GMT -5
I'll restate my questions - I only have one role name, so WHY are you both Ironman and Deadpool? Why did you claim Ironman, and why were you confused when the mod announced your rolename as Deadpool (he still hasn't called you Ironman, by the way). For that matter, do you know why he announced your role name in the first place? These are the biggies. I could be more specific, but considering that I'm suspicious that you got caught using a mod-provided fake PM, I'd rather not put words in your mouth, I hope you understand . Can or will you answer any of those? the way i read my pm initially was that as long as i announced i was ironman i would not be revealed as deadpool until i died. apparantly i was mistaken. but nonetheless my role requires that i be ironman although everyone now knows i am really deadpool. remember this is a gasterd game and me thinks our og probably took advantage to get some yuckles out of its design.
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Post by wombat99 on Oct 4, 2012 9:40:20 GMT -5
I wonder if we have a Cabal faction in the game a la Conspiracy. Crys's character includes all 3 non-Town Conspiracy factions.
It also seems unlikely that one player could bite enough players to achieve Crys's claimed wincon. Half of the players who are alive at the end of the game need to be infected. How would that even be possible at a rate of one bite per Night? You'd have to be extremely lucky at figuring out who would be alive at end game. Either there's more than one cabalist, or maybe the virus is contagious.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 4, 2012 9:48:13 GMT -5
It is extremely rare for a mad bomber to meet their wincon, but not unheard of. And usually, yes, it has to do with figuring out who's likely to survive to end game.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 4, 2012 10:25:08 GMT -5
I would appreciate it if someone could explain what a Mad Bomber role is? Sister's comment above does not conform with what little I thought I understood.
Thank-you.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 4, 2012 10:30:36 GMT -5
I wonder if we have a Cabal faction in the game a la Conspiracy. Crys's character includes all 3 non-Town Conspiracy factions. I doubt it. This game was billed in part as something to mark the first fvie years of our group playing Mafia here. As an aside, we owe some thanks to Idle Thoughts for letting us use the board for this purpose.) Pleo's Conspiracy games are a long-running series. I think it more likely that crys's claimed role was formulated as a homage to those games. I've read this, but need to make some notes, particularly on the roleclaims. I can appreciate why KidV urges claimants not to lie, but I can see why crys adopted the method she did. I think you have to acknowledge that, if you have a conditional immunity to Nightkills concealing the condition, and the existence of the condition, is a rational strategy - especially if you threaten the wincon of the Mafia. On the other hand, I would expect a mad bomber role to be third party hostile - I'll need to reread to come to a firm conclusion, and I want to deal with that this evening. I also need to reread JBG's claim again. I did note the Non-hostile Town claim, but I am inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt (or at least 50' of rope) when she says that she didn't realise Town players have a hostile designation. The change to designations came somewhat late and she may have missed it. Incidentally JBG, might I suggest that you set an alert for receiving PMs so that you get an e-mail whenever someone sends you a PM? That way you'll get an e-mail every time someone sends a role PM for a new game, and you're less likely to forget. Lastly, the reveal of Pleo really annoyed me. This isn't the first game I've seen where the Town investigator lied and got lynched for lying in the early game, causing their side a lot of pain. (I'm talking about Ragnarok, of course.) At this stage, I suspect he lied from the get-go. I suggest that if he had been open with us, the push to not having the Doc die would not have resulted in losing the Town-aligned Investigator.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 4, 2012 10:32:03 GMT -5
A Mad Bomber, under usual circumstances which I remind everyone this is not, is a player who wins by having a certain number of players "tagged".
Ordinarily, if a Mad Bomber meets their wincon (half of all living players "tagged", All living players save the Mad Bomber and one other "tagged", etc.) it ends the game and the Mad Bomber "steals the win" from Town and Scum.
This is different from a Bomb, who explodes when killed, taking out usually one of their killers.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 4, 2012 10:34:18 GMT -5
I would appreciate it if someone could explain what a Mad Bomber role is? Sister's comment above does not conform with what little I thought I understood. Thank-you. A mad bomber role is a role who, in some way, "tags" other players in the game. The exact method isn't important. The Mad Bomber's normal wincon is to have half or all of the living players tagged. It does no good tagging (say) Pleo on N1 if he gets lynched the next Day because, once dead, that tag is lost and does not count towards the wincon.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 4, 2012 10:36:53 GMT -5
I also need to reread JBG's claim again. I did note the Non-hostile Town claim, but I am inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt (or at least 50' of rope) when she says that she didn't realise Town players have a hostile designation. The change to designations came somewhat late and she may have missed it. So the idea here is, she thought that Pollux made a mistake in the PM he sent her? She opened her PM, looked it over, saw "Hostile," but assumed it must be wrong because she was Town and that didn't make sense, so she changed it to correct the moderator's mistake? I'm not totally sure I buy that. More in a minute.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 4, 2012 10:41:41 GMT -5
I also need to reread JBG's claim again. I did note the Non-hostile Town claim, but I am inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt (or at least 50' of rope) when she says that she didn't realise Town players have a hostile designation. The change to designations came somewhat late and she may have missed it. So the idea here is, she thought that Pollux made a mistake in the PM he sent her? She opened her PM, looked it over, saw "Hostile," but assumed it must be wrong because she was Town and that didn't make sense, so she changed it to correct the moderator's mistake? That's my suspicion, yes. Subject to review on reread. That's ok. Reasonable people can differ on interpretation. I'm open to evidence I'm wrong. I got a "catching up in haste" vibe from her posts which was the basis of my willingness to give her some benefit of the doubt.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 4, 2012 10:46:04 GMT -5
I missed something important out of this post. A mad bomber role is a role who, in some way, "tags" other players in the game. The exact method isn't important.
The Mad Bomber's normal wincon is to have half or all of the living players tagged. It does no good tagging (say) Pleo on N1 if he gets lynched the next Day because, once dead, that tag is lost and does not count towards the wincon.
One thousand and one Cleans a great big carpet For less than half a crown! My silly habit of marking my 1,001 st post continues
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 4, 2012 10:51:14 GMT -5
So I've been thinking for the last day or so about the implications of Red Skeezix's claims that have 5 Scum and very few Town (depending on Pleo, as few as 5 remaining).
I don't have a lot of trouble believing this. Red would have very, very little motivation to lie about it and it absolutely fits with the kind of game we're playing.
But it kind of demands a shift in the way we think about the game. It's not really Mafia, which is about an informed minority against an uninformed majority. In this case, it's about two minorities, neither fully informed (though one somewhat more informed than the other), doing battle in a large field of neutrals, with a few hostiles floating around as a problem for everyone.
I think this game swings on which side handles that field of neutrals most effectively - because there are presumably enough of them that if they all collectively decided to work with the Scum, the Town has zero chance to win. We must find ways of identifying the neutrals and then persuading them to play as if they were Town - and of course, lynch or otherwise remove the ones who appear to be playing against Town.
I doubt this message is getting my point across at all. But what the hell. I think it's really kind of cool, if it is indeed what's going on.
---
Or Skeezix is lying or misled. That's possible, too. ;D
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 4, 2012 10:53:39 GMT -5
I got a "catching up in haste" vibe from her posts which was the basis of my willingness to give her some benefit of the doubt. OK. But let's say you were catching up in a hasty fashion and noticed what appeared to be a very important error in your PM. Your intention is to remain entirely above baord. It is Night, which means you are under no immediate lynch pressure and you have some time to make your claim. Do you: (1) "Fix" the moderator's mistake and post the edited PM; or (2) Write to the moderator asking for clarification?
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Post by Parzival on Oct 4, 2012 11:01:40 GMT -5
I noticed the claim 'Hostile' line too. I'm mostly suspicious of it. And I think you make a good point about it, storyteller. If I hadn't read the rules closely, I think I'd PM right away saying, "are you sure I'm 'Hostile'".
The other thing to consider is whether the wincon matches the Designation. JBG's sounds Hostile (since it is the Town's). crys's does, too. But I can almost imagine a gastard mod coming up with a 3P Non-Hostile Mad Bomber. I don't want to metagame it, but it's the sort of thing that would sow confusion and ultimately be a harmless infection.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 4, 2012 11:13:05 GMT -5
Thank-you Sister Coyote and Merestil Haye for the Mad Bomber explanation.
For me, the only possible conclusion is that crys is a Hostile 3rd Party.
The plus is that her win-con is not imminent so we do not have to lynch her immediately, keeping in mind that if we conclude this, she may not be as helpful to Town with her votes as she says she wants to be.
The next Day we do not otherwise have a good candidate, crys should be lynched.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Oct 4, 2012 12:03:33 GMT -5
Night's over.
Day's up soon-ish.
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Post by crys on Oct 4, 2012 12:07:37 GMT -5
I wonder if we have a Cabal faction in the game a la Conspiracy. Crys's character includes all 3 non-Town Conspiracy factions. It also seems unlikely that one player could bite enough players to achieve Crys's claimed wincon. Half of the players who are alive at the end of the game need to be infected. How would that even be possible at a rate of one bite per Night? You'd have to be extremely lucky at figuring out who would be alive at end game. Either there's more than one cabalist, or maybe the virus is contagious. The virus is not contagious. I asked pollux that because I came to the same conclusion as you that with one bite a night it would be impossible. However I do not know if there are more like me. Sent from my SCH-I405 using proboards
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Post by Parzival on Oct 4, 2012 12:08:49 GMT -5
Thinking about it, as long as everyone honestly reports infection, we'll know whether we ought to worry about crys or not. And unless crys is in league with someone else (doubtful), no one has a reason to hide it. I'm trusting the infection substance of her claim for the moment. Additional evidence will presumably be reported by others and obvious.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Oct 4, 2012 12:11:19 GMT -5
Night over! Night over! Night Over!!
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