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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 14, 2012 11:45:51 GMT -5
<snip> Post-Post Next: I want to lynch Ginger again. Also, if she comes up scum then I want to lynch storyteller. I still want to lynch crys too. I'm with Sister Coyote here, What is the connection between JustBeingGinger and storyteller that justifies that conclusion?
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Post by LightFoot on Oct 14, 2012 11:58:15 GMT -5
She's explained this before, I believe. The 'right' people are the people who are going to survive long enough to count towards her win condition, which they can't do if they're dead. So she has to either try and strategize to target people who are likely to stay alive or just use the shotgun approach and infect as many people as possible in the general population as a way of spreading out the probability that her targets will get killed by a killing role or lynched. Seeing as she allegedly tried to stay in her room at least once as a symbol of cooperation, and seeing as the person putting the most pressure on her to do so was KidV who was a hostile Third Party and not even a member of the Town that she was trying to show cooperate toward, her choices of who she should bite and who she's going to vote to lynch has become more crucial and complicated. If she happens to have bitten someone who starts gathering suspicion, she has conflicting motivations, especially if she happens to share in the suspicion of those she has bitten. Adding a vote toward lynching them moves her away from her win condition. Deciding not to vote for them potentially puts her at odds with the best interest of the Town. That is my understanding of her language and apparent predicament as to her win condition. If she explained it before- it wasn't in this game thread. You did read my question previously Day 3 If she decides to help lynch someone she's bitten- c'est la- one less in the pool It makes no sense to not put any water in the pool at all.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 14, 2012 11:58:42 GMT -5
I was going to draw this out, and I was going to support what I am about to say with a post. Going back to re-read the post I am using to support my assertion, I found another post directly under it. Re-reading the second post there has quickened me to move my gambit along. TOWN ( At large, because as a matter of fact, I do believe there are only a few number of non-third party townies alive.) I am a Watcher. I happen to be Third Party. I split the lines here, lest you think I can only watch third parties. I have been watching what I considered to be high value targets. Some of these are obvious. As for night 1, I watched Peeker. A few people targeted Peeker on Night 1, and one of them was Dizzy. At first I was not certain what to make of this post : www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2047&page=4#98523In which Dizzy states she was offline for Jewish Holidays. There are many levels here. On the surface, we can take her at her word, that she was inactive. This is completely against the result of my night one watching. One interpretation here is to say that Dizzy is mis-directing. I believe she is lying. On the deeper level, I think it is a matter of "The guilty dog barks." That is to say, I think Dizzy found it necessary to "over-clean" the crime scene. I don't know Peeker, but I think his place is like mine, and he has a few empty soda cans around the place. Dizzy here is trying to whistle nonchalantly while cleaning up the place, discarding the cans. I believe that Dizzy NK'd peeker on night 1. I believe everything that came after that, on Early Day 2 is an attempt in misdirection. My result watching of Peeker states that Dizzy was at least targeting Peeker on night 1.
But then, I saw the second post: www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2047&page=4#98524This being the post that comes after my supporting post above. This post has the quickening agent. ::: How does Peeker's death have anything to do with a nexus ability (if I'm understanding it correctly)? Wouldn't he have been able to redirect the kill then? Read more: www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2047&page=4#98524#ixzz29IFHx7QWThis seems to be the final turn in a police procedural, the one question too far, that only the murder can ask. No one is going to ask this quesstion, unless they are intimately involved in the crime. It's not a commonplace question, because common people aren't going to ask it. Again, another case of guilty dog barking. Nobody else thought to ask the question here. Nobody else did the deed. That's all I'm saying. My vote on Dizzy stands.
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Post by LightFoot on Oct 14, 2012 12:11:17 GMT -5
I was going to draw this out, and I was going to support what I am about to say with a post. Going back to re-read the post I am using to support my assertion, I found another post directly under it. Re-reading the second post there has quickened me to move my gambit along. TOWN ( At large, because as a matter of fact, I do believe there are only a few number of non-third party townies alive.) I am a Watcher. I happen to be Third Party. I split the lines here, lest you think I can only watch third parties. I have been watching what I considered to be high value targets. Some of these are obvious. As for night 1, I watched Peeker. A few people targeted Peeker on Night 1, and one of them was Dizzy. At first I was not certain what to make of this post : www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2047&page=4#98523In which Dizzy states she was offline for Jewish Holidays. There are many levels here. On the surface, we can take her at her word, that she was inactive. This is completely against the result of my night one watching. One interpretation here is to say that Dizzy is mis-directing. I believe she is lying. On the deeper level, I think it is a matter of "The guilty dog barks." That is to say, I think Dizzy found it necessary to "over-clean" the crime scene. I don't know Peeker, but I think his place is like mine, and he has a few empty soda cans around the place. Dizzy here is trying to whistle nonchalantly while cleaning up the place, discarding the cans. I believe that Dizzy NK'd peeker on night 1. I believe everything that came after that, on Early Day 2 is an attempt in misdirection. My result watching of Peeker states that Dizzy was at least targeting Peeker on night 1.
But then, I saw the second post: www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2047&page=4#98524This being the post that comes after my supporting post above. This post has the quickening agent. ::: How does Peeker's death have anything to do with a nexus ability (if I'm understanding it correctly)? Wouldn't he have been able to redirect the kill then? Read more: www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2047&page=4#98524#ixzz29IFHx7QWThis seems to be the final turn in a police procedural, the one question too far, that only the murder can ask. No one is going to ask this quesstion, unless they are intimately involved in the crime. It's not a commonplace question, because common people aren't going to ask it. Again, another case of guilty dog barking. Nobody else thought to ask the question here. Nobody else did the deed. That's all I'm saying. My vote on Dizzy stands. I've got another possible theorie but I'll wait until dizzy responds I'm not going to give her an out
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 14, 2012 12:42:50 GMT -5
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 14, 2012 13:44:45 GMT -5
Oh well since we don't have to give any reasons whatsovever for a vote anymore.... Vote:MeekoA vote with no reason serves no purpose other than to supply other players with a reason to vote you.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 14, 2012 13:45:13 GMT -5
Let me see if I follow you here, Meeko.
1) We have color in the Dawn post of Day 2 that Peeker was decapitated, had goop coming out of his ears, and he'd had been frozen and shattered into pieces.
2) You say you saw multiple people visit Peeker the Night he died-but-didn't-really-die, and Dizzy was one of them.
3) Dizzy asked some questions about how nexus powers work after others had started discussing nexus powers.
And the conclusion you're arriving at is that Dizzy was a killing force and the only killing force involved.
Do I have that right?
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Post by LightFoot on Oct 14, 2012 14:09:50 GMT -5
I read all those things the first time I am no more enlightened now than I was the first time I don't believe my brains have leaked out my ears= I don't see my question answered and I'm sure crys thanks you for explaining her thoughts?
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 14, 2012 14:15:59 GMT -5
Let me see if I follow you here, Meeko. 1) We have color in the Dawn post of Day 2 that Peeker was decapitated, had goop coming out of his ears, and he'd had been frozen and shattered into pieces. 2) You say you saw multiple people visit Peeker the Night he died-but-didn't-really-die, and Dizzy was one of them. 3) Dizzy asked some questions about how nexus powers work after others had started discussing nexus powers. And the conclusion you're arriving at is that Dizzy was a killing force and the only killing force involved. Do I have that right? Did I stutter? Did I make a case for Dizzy and go off and Vote Opal?
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 14, 2012 14:17:51 GMT -5
Cookies What say you to Dizzy saying she was absent for Holidays, but apparently acting out and targeting Peeker in the same time span?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 14, 2012 14:19:02 GMT -5
That's the joy about this game. The information is there for everyone to read and interpret. Sorry I didn't answer whatever specific question you have for her. I was responding to you saying that she had not explained herself and cited all of the posts that had led me to my understanding of what she was trying to say, that was apparently close to what she's been trying to say.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 14, 2012 14:27:40 GMT -5
That's the joy about this game. The information is there for everyone to read and interpret. Sorry I didn't answer whatever specific question you have for her. I was responding to you saying that she had not explained herself and cited all of the posts that had led me to my understanding of what she was trying to say, that was apparently close to what she's been trying to say. Just me, or lots of board congestion here lately? Was this one to my case re Dizzy? There are undoubtedly other cases to be made for lynches in this game. I don't think the game is down to one last lynch. People need to make strong cases with the information they have. I was finally able to make a case against Dizzy, and so I did. I think it is a strong case, obviously, else I would not have made it. I have made weaker cases in the past. Tons of votes here recently have gone along with, and in support of weaker cases than this. They study under the Pizza's Mafia Training School banner.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 14, 2012 14:30:42 GMT -5
<snip> I have been watching what I considered to be high value targets. Some of these are obvious. As for night 1, I watched Peeker. A few people targeted Peeker on Night 1, and one of them was Dizzy. <snip> I believe that Dizzy NK'd peeker on night 1. I believe everything that came after that, on Early Day 2 is an attempt in misdirection. My result watching of Peeker states that Dizzy was at least targeting Peeker on night 1.
<snip> Four questions: You say "a few people targeted Peeker." Does this mean you know for certain how many people targeted peekercpa? Could you tell us how many? You say dizzymrslizzy was "at least" targeting peekercpa. Could you explain the "at least" part of that statement? You are a Watcher and you learned that dizzymrslizzy targeted peekercpa on Night One. But are you certain that the power she targeted him with was a killing power? Out of all of that, you have some knowledge of dizzymrslizzy, but what knowledge do you have that indicates she is Scum?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 14, 2012 14:33:48 GMT -5
Let me see if I follow you here, Meeko. 1) We have color in the Dawn post of Day 2 that Peeker was decapitated, had goop coming out of his ears, and he'd had been frozen and shattered into pieces. 2) You say you saw multiple people visit Peeker the Night he died-but-didn't-really-die, and Dizzy was one of them. 3) Dizzy asked some questions about how nexus powers work after others had started discussing nexus powers. And the conclusion you're arriving at is that Dizzy was a killing force and the only killing force involved. Do I have that right? Did I stutter? Did I make a case for Dizzy and go off and Vote Opal? I just wanted to try and follow your thought process before I go poking holes in it. Contrary to Lightfoot wanting to wait for Dizzy's reaction, I don't see a need to put the game on hold for fear that talking about things will give some anti-town force inspiration for how better to try and cover their ass. There are quite a few implications and possible scenarios at play based on the information at hand if we assume you are telling the truth about what you saw on Night 1. Trying to figure out who says they're traveling and who isn't traveling and who has a mobile app that might allow them to still submit an Night action even though they're traveling seems like a lot of Metagaming carp that has nothing to do with the game. I always assume that people are going to be away when they say they are going to be away, but I try not to make many assumptions about whether or not they'll be able to participate while being 'away'. I do that because I like to think well of people and I think it is shitty play to use fake IRL excuses to cover in-game strategy. You say you saw her there. If she denies being there or denies doing anything that could be Tracked that Night then we'll have a few rounds of 'he said, she said'. If she doesn't deny being there or doesn't deny performing an action of some kind there are a few scenarios that should be weighed before making decisions about who did what and what their motivations might have been, imho.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 14, 2012 14:36:32 GMT -5
That's the joy about this game. The information is there for everyone to read and interpret. Sorry I didn't answer whatever specific question you have for her. I was responding to you saying that she had not explained herself and cited all of the posts that had led me to my understanding of what she was trying to say, that was apparently close to what she's been trying to say. Just me, or lots of board congestion here lately? Was this one to my case re Dizzy? I was responding to Lightfoot there. I wouldn't necessarily come to the same conclusion as you have with the information that you say you have about Dizzy. I'm sure we'll get to hash it out though.
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Post by crys on Oct 14, 2012 14:37:33 GMT -5
She's explained this before, I believe. The 'right' people are the people who are going to survive long enough to count towards her win condition, which they can't do if they're dead. So she has to either try and strategize to target people who are likely to stay alive or just use the shotgun approach and infect as many people as possible in the general population as a way of spreading out the probability that her targets will get killed by a killing role or lynched. Seeing as she allegedly tried to stay in her room at least once as a symbol of cooperation, and seeing as the person putting the most pressure on her to do so was KidV who was a hostile Third Party and not even a member of the Town that she was trying to show cooperate toward, her choices of who she should bite and who she's going to vote to lynch has become more crucial and complicated. If she happens to have bitten someone who starts gathering suspicion, she has conflicting motivations, especially if she happens to share in the suspicion of those she has bitten. Adding a vote toward lynching them moves her away from her win condition. Deciding not to vote for them potentially puts her at odds with the best interest of the Town. That is my understanding of her language and apparent predicament as to her win condition. If she explained it before- it wasn't in this game thread. You did read my question previously Day 3 If she decides to help lynch someone she's bitten- c'est la- one less in the pool It makes no sense to not put any water in the pool at all. I actually did explain it. Gaining trust of the town and non hostile players is important and that is what I was doing my staying in my room a couple nights and not infecting any players to show that I was living up to my word and could be considered trustworthy. I'm sorry you don't like my strategy and they way I decided to play things. It is my role and not yours and I have answered it several different ways but you keep hitting and pinpointing on the same thing and quite frankly I think it is just noise. I am tired of your badgering and your insistence that I answer the same question a million times. Why don't you for once give some information about you and your role or even start to look at others than just myself or Mhaye?...oh why cause you can't without getting yourself lynched or is your vision and creativity really that tunneled this game? I am more inclined to believe the former rather than the latter Vote: lightfoot
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Post by LightFoot on Oct 14, 2012 14:43:42 GMT -5
cookies I'm not putting the game on hold-I have an alternative reason for what meeko suspects BUT if it's not true I'm not going to give dizzy an alibi that she may not have thought of if she is guilty
oy
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 14, 2012 14:53:16 GMT -5
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Post by LightFoot on Oct 14, 2012 14:54:52 GMT -5
For crying in the mud crys I wasn’t voting you I was trying to understand your thought process
Which I’ve admitted I didn’t follow
I honestly don’t think everyone in the game saw the logic either.
Really, you claimed= you will be poked and prodded about said claim as long as you are alive- ‘tis the nature of the beast
Your venom is unwarranted
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 14, 2012 14:55:46 GMT -5
Dizzy showing up to claim or deny anything won't make anything that she or Meeko say any more or less true. It is all alleged until one or both of them end up dead. Choosing not to talk about something because she could be scum and not considered it is functionally putting the game on hold imho.
A) If Dizzy denies doing anything on Night 1 then either Dizzy or Meeko is a liar.
B) If Dizzy said she did something on Night 1, but not to Peeker there are various redirection scenarios to consider. Dizzy will likely be pressured to claim. Meeko may also likely be pressured to provide more information out of his magic bag.
C) If Dizzy said she did something on Night 1 to Peeker but it wasn't trying to kill him, then Dizzy will likely be pressured to claim. Meeko may also likely be pressured to provide more information out of his magic bag.
Somewhere in B or C is where I suspect the conversation will likely go based on other evidence at hand.
I don't grock the mentality not to discuss conjecture until you've heard from some other player.
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Post by crys on Oct 14, 2012 14:58:57 GMT -5
For crying in the mud crys I wasn’t voting you I was trying to understand your thought process Which I’ve admitted I didn’t follow I honestly don’t think everyone in the game saw the logic either. Really, you claimed= you will be poked and prodded about said claim as long as you are alive- ‘tis the nature of the beast Your venom is unwarranted I never accused you of voting for me, but you have been harping on the same question which I have indirectly answered continually. Like I said I feel that it is mostly noise. I really wasn't being venomous though. A bit cranky maybe, but venomous is much worse.
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Post by LightFoot on Oct 14, 2012 15:06:54 GMT -5
Dizzy showing up to claim or deny anything won't make anything that she or Meeko say any more or less true. It is all alleged until one or both of them end up dead. Choosing not to talk about something because she could be scum and not considered it is functionally putting the game on hold imho. A) If Dizzy denies doing anything on Night 1 then either Dizzy or Meeko is a liar. B) If Dizzy said she did something on Night 1, but not to Peeker there are various redirection scenarios to consider. Dizzy will likely be pressured to claim. Meeko may also likely be pressured to provide more information out of his magic bag. C) If Dizzy said she did something on Night 1 to Peeker but it wasn't trying to kill him, then Dizzy will likely be pressured to claim. Meeko may also likely be pressured to provide more information out of his magic bag. Somewhere in B or C is where I suspect the conversation will likely go based on other evidence at hand. I don't grock the mentality not to discuss conjecture until you've heard from some other player. Let’s say I tracked Fred on Tuesday and I saw him visit Wilma Wilma wakes up dead Wednesday I accuse Fred of killing Wilma Barney posts- well it is possible that Fred was doing this other thing that is innocent as hell Fred shows up and posts – yes that’s what I was doing ( Fred did kill Wilma and didn’t know what to say til Barney gave him the great idea ) See?
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 14, 2012 15:25:43 GMT -5
2) You say you saw multiple people visit Peeker the Night he died-but-didn't-really-die, and Dizzy was one of them. no i died (look at the number of posts i made on D2). i just came back to life to annoy you. heh heh.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 14, 2012 15:25:55 GMT -5
I try not to ever assume that scummers are dumb. Life is just easier that way.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 14, 2012 15:26:53 GMT -5
I try not to ever assume that scummers are dumb. Life is just easier that way. That was to Lightfoot again.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 14, 2012 15:29:00 GMT -5
Out of all of that, you have some knowledge of dizzymrslizzy, but what knowledge do you have that indicates she is Scum?[/quote <snipped> well the way i see it she either was one of more than one or one of one. either that or she was just going through my stuff, being dead and shit. that's equally as tacky.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 14, 2012 15:42:42 GMT -5
Out of all of that, you have some knowledge of dizzymrslizzy, but what knowledge do you have that indicates she is Scum?[/quote <snipped> well the way i see it she either was one of more than one or one of one. either that or she was just going through my stuff, being dead and shit. that's equally as tacky. Is it not possible that she is a Town Vig?
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Post by crys on Oct 14, 2012 15:56:37 GMT -5
Out of all of that, you have some knowledge of dizzymrslizzy, but what knowledge do you have that indicates she is Scum?[/quote <snipped> well the way i see it she either was one of more than one or one of one. either that or she was just going through my stuff, being dead and shit. that's equally as tacky. Is it not possible that she is a Town Vig? I suppose that is possible, but why are you adding to her possible excuses. I really wish all of you that are speculating would keep this info to yourselves for the moment. I would have really liked to see what she had to say for herself without all the help.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 14, 2012 16:01:15 GMT -5
Is it not possible that she is a Town Vig? IANAPeeker, but that is certainly one of the possibilities that I'm considering.
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Post by LightFoot on Oct 14, 2012 16:12:39 GMT -5
I try not to ever assume that scummers are dumb. Life is just easier that way. nor do I But I'm not going to cater their luncheon
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