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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 16, 2012 21:19:48 GMT -5
If Guiri was the Merc, then why weren't you announced as the New and Improved Merc (tm)? He died before he could complete the Merc mission.
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Post by crys on Oct 16, 2012 21:20:43 GMT -5
You're assuming there are vanilla scum to send out. That's not an assumption I'm willing to make at this point. And even if there are vanilla scum, there are lots of reasons why Silver Jan could have been chosen to make the kill. For example, she could have been selected randomly, or maybe the other scum were catching some heat and they thought Silver Jan would be the least likely to be tracked. If she wasn't there to kill you, how do you account for the 3 different ways that you died, considering Meeko only saw 3 people in your room, and assuming that Meeko is being truthful? If your answer is "The Merc" I'm going to have to require an adult beverage. well since you deserve one: the merc (sorry, but i can't resist. the job you did on the shower was phenom and i can hardly wait to see the rest of the joint). but i just don't see sending a recruiter out to perform a kill is a wise choice of resources. i mean if we believe skeezy the pool is ripe. maybe kidv was full of shit and he showed up as the phantom merc. maybe inner decided to do the freeze and chopalot thingamabob. maybe it is all color. i mean pollux did indicate that i was really dead three times which leads to some conclusions about actions but shit even he was full of poo when he wrote the color about me being REALLY dead. and he freaking knew it. Keep in mind my Mafia experience pool is pretty limited, but when I did encounter watcher/tracker each side had one and the same person on each team was the watcher/tracker and they had the ability for a kill. I can't remember if it was a one shot ability or not. Now I do realize this is a gastard game but has anyone stopped to think about if they are both lying and omitting information? Chances are because of the nature of the game this is very likely the case.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 16, 2012 21:29:42 GMT -5
If Guiri was the Merc, then why weren't you announced as the New and Improved Merc (tm)? He died before he could complete the Merc mission. he died because he bid too much not because he was lynched.
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Post by crys on Oct 16, 2012 21:32:00 GMT -5
If Guiri was the Merc, then why weren't you announced as the New and Improved Merc (tm)? He died before he could complete the Merc mission. he died because he bid too much not because he was lynched. Ok I think I need to go reread the threads because this logic makes absolutely no sense to me and I may have missed something.
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Post by crys on Oct 16, 2012 21:37:34 GMT -5
Does anyone else want to weigh with WAGs on the Merc? By my count this is what I've got: Merc is more likey to be a mechanicPeeker Cookies Merc is more likely to be a role occupied by or connected to someone on the player listpatricia Inner I don't think there is anything necessarily incriminating either way, but crowd-sourcing perspectives can only help, imho. I think you have to pencil me in under patricia and Inner on that list. The rules stated we have 2 votes while the merc is still in play. It has to be attached to someone in order for it to vanish I think anyways.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 16, 2012 21:39:01 GMT -5
from pollux
i have no clue how to quote a pm into the thread. so i just copied and pasted.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 16, 2012 21:40:31 GMT -5
It seems like there is continuing confusion over this.
We have already had an instance of the winner of the merc bid dying while in possession of the merc bid (Guiri).
The merc did not die.
We cannot kill the merc by killing the winner of the bid.
The merc dies when the player associated with the merc dies.
I still think that player does not even know he or she "is" the merc.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 16, 2012 21:42:26 GMT -5
and for the naysayers. anyone who has played with for any length of time knows that i very rarely use smileys. and a fucking hopping bunny. what up with that? christ on a popsickle stick. i mean can it be any more fucking inane.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 16, 2012 21:47:51 GMT -5
It seems like there is continuing confusion over this. We have already had an instance of the winner of the merc bid dying while in possession of the merc bid (Guiri).The merc did not die.We cannot kill the merc by killing the winner of the bid. The merc dies when the player associated with the merc dies. I still think that player does not even know he or she "is" the merc. bzzzzzt. wrong. either that or everything i have received from the og is a lie. now i don't put it past pollux to have certain of us dance to some weird ballroom beat so maybe so. but even in gastard there is an out. if we are to believe you then i was fucked on N0. and pollux and i have had tussles before but i don't think he gives anyone an unwinable position especially by design. of course, if it has to be anyone then i am the most likely choice. fucking jerk.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 16, 2012 21:50:21 GMT -5
Peeker, I think I finally grok what you're saying, but I don't know how much I trust it, (or you ) since that 3rd bullet point from your PM says 'killed' and not 'lynched' My ever-evolving theory based on trial and error of understanding Peeker: 1) The Merc is embodied by whomever wins the bid, not one particular player. 2) If the winning bidder gets lynched, either by their own bid votes or the consensus of the Town, then Peeker's Merc Replacement Clause kicks in. Guiri was the winning bidder, but he was killed by a Daykill, not a lynch, ergo no Replacement Clause. Read more: idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2052&page=14#ixzz29WMEd8yv
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 16, 2012 21:52:22 GMT -5
ok. took a couple of deep breaths and all is better.
the merc is a mechanism, not a person in this game.
vote cookies
vote beckham[/color]
if you folks can't get that through your noggins then you are being deliberately obtuse or just need to go bye bye.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 16, 2012 21:53:52 GMT -5
Peeker, I think I finally grok what you're saying, but I don't know how much I trust it, (or you ) since that 3rd bullet point from your PM says 'killed' and not 'lynched' My ever-evolving theory based on trial and error of understanding Peeker: 1) The Merc is embodied by whomever wins the bid, not one particular player. 2) If the winning bidder gets lynched, either by their own bid votes or the consensus of the Town, then Peeker's Merc Replacement Clause kicks in. Guiri was the winning bidder, but he was killed by a Daykill, not a lynch, ergo no Replacement Clause. Read more: idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2052&page=14#ixzz29WMEd8yvwell someone is at least getting close. unvote cookies[/color]
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Post by crys on Oct 16, 2012 21:54:58 GMT -5
Peeker, I think I finally grok what you're saying, but I don't know how much I trust it, (or you ) since that 3rd bullet point from your PM says 'killed' and not 'lynched' My ever-evolving theory based on trial and error of understanding Peeker: 1) The Merc is embodied by whomever wins the bid, not one particular player. 2) If the winning bidder gets lynched, either by their own bid votes or the consensus of the Town, then Peeker's Merc Replacement Clause kicks in. Guiri was the winning bidder, but he was killed by a Daykill, not a lynch, ergo no Replacement Clause. Read more: idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2052&page=14#ixzz29WMEd8yvOhhhh that would be a possibility. I never even really thought about it that way. I guess I need a peekslator
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 16, 2012 22:02:14 GMT -5
If Guiri was the Merc, then why weren't you announced as the New and Improved Merc (tm)? He died before he could complete the Merc mission. he died because he bid too much not because he was lynched. How do you figure?
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 16, 2012 22:02:31 GMT -5
Peeker, I think I finally grok what you're saying, but I don't know how much I trust it, (or you ) since that 3rd bullet point from your PM says 'killed' and not 'lynched' My ever-evolving theory based on trial and error of understanding Peeker: 1) The Merc is embodied by whomever wins the bid, not one particular player. 2) If the winning bidder gets lynched, either by their own bid votes or the consensus of the Town, then Peeker's Merc Replacement Clause kicks in. Guiri was the winning bidder, but he was killed by a Daykill, not a lynch, ergo no Replacement Clause. Read more: idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2052&page=14#ixzz29WMEd8yvand for some odd reasons my blathering does not come across as elegantly as you state it. at this point if i get the merc power i can safely assure you that i will be pulling for cookie's team. so if you are scum and she isn't you better get me toNight. and if town has a vig ( inner) and you don't think cookies is town aligned you better get my ass toNight. because at some point i do get to be the merc (shit you can't kill me and so sooner or later by default it is mine) and i do remember.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 16, 2012 22:09:16 GMT -5
Well, you're certainly living up to your role name.
I vote we not do whatever it is Peeker wants because he's not town and we didn't get a hostile/nonhostile designation when he died so he must be outside the system. I want to focus on playing the real game, not pollux's fucked up idea of a side show act.
I also categorically refuse to accept that there's a player who can become unkillable; regardless, I'm not going to do anything that I think will aid peeker in his wincon.
Also, what happens if no one bids on the merc?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 16, 2012 22:09:42 GMT -5
Peeker, I think I finally grok what you're saying, but I don't know how much I trust it, (or you ) since that 3rd bullet point from your PM says 'killed' and not 'lynched' My ever-evolving theory based on trial and error of understanding Peeker: 1) The Merc is embodied by whomever wins the bid, not one particular player. 2) If the winning bidder gets lynched, either by their own bid votes or the consensus of the Town, then Peeker's Merc Replacement Clause kicks in. Guiri was the winning bidder, but he was killed by a Daykill, not a lynch, ergo no Replacement Clause. Read more: idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2052&page=14#ixzz29WMEd8yvOhhhh that would be a possibility. I never even really thought about it that way. I guess I need a peekslator Even having one doesn't help. Mine's been on the fritz this whole evening.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 16, 2012 22:10:30 GMT -5
he died because he bid too much not because he was lynched. How do you figure? actually it's kind of a guess based on what i know. unless you have some evidence of a DK that you would like to share. DKs are few and far between unless mog instigated. now certainly in this game it is not out of the realm. and since it is the only one we have seen that conveniently aligns with a merc bid i put two an two together. am i wrong? almost for sure. am i right? meh. let's see.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 16, 2012 22:15:33 GMT -5
Well, you're certainly living up to your role name. <snipped> one can only deliver the lines and act the part that one is given.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 16, 2012 22:20:03 GMT -5
actually it's kind of a guess based on what i know. unless you have some evidence of a DK that you would like to share. DKs are few and far between unless mog instigated. now certainly in this game it is not out of the realm. and since it is the only one we have seen that conveniently aligns with a merc bid i put two an two together. am i wrong? almost for sure. am i right? meh. let's see. OK. As a guess it is as good as any other, so I guess it is.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 16, 2012 22:21:32 GMT -5
actually it's kind of a guess based on what i know. unless you have some evidence of a DK that you would like to share. We know it was a Day Kill because we have word of mod that it wasn't a result of the Merc bidding. Go reread Pollux's first post in N0. Guiri bid 8 votes. Pleo had 11. Pleo is listed as the top vote getter for Day 2. Guiri is not. Ergo, guiri did not die as a result of his merc bid. Ergo, guiri was daykilled. It's fine and fun to come up with alternative scenarios but you don't get to make the facts up with it.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 16, 2012 22:38:56 GMT -5
ok, here is a snippet. i love drawing this shit out. from the mog: 3. Should The Mercenary, whoever they are, get killed before they complete their mission, you will (rightfully, because you're really the one true mercenary goshdangit!) take over their powers but not their win condition when you are live. It will also be publically stated that you've taken over working as the Mercenary should this event happen. <snip> "Should the Mercenary, whoever they are, get killed..." "Get killed," not "get lynched". I could, sorta, understand Pollux saying "get killed" if he meant "killed or lynched," but since he clearly did NOT mean "get killed," I find this whole thing related to carp. It just seems that if he meant "get lynched" he would've said "get lynched".
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 16, 2012 22:41:42 GMT -5
My head is hurting.
I think it is pretty clear that Guiri was Daykilled, and by Scum if I had to hazard a guess, but possibly by a Hostile Third Party too.
Going full circle back around to why I was pondering the Merc again in the first place, I thought maybe we could ferret out more insight into whether or not Dizzy should die or be given any benefit of the doubt but there's just too much going on and too much still unknown.
If the Merc is embodied by the winning bidder each Night, and the Merc causes victims brains to ooze, I would have expected Meeko to report KidV on the roster in Peeker's room.
As that isn't what Meeko reported, there could be a problem with one or many of the assumptions steering my expectations.
Meeko could be lying. Maybe oozing brains isn't the Merc's kill signature. Maybe Dizzy is KidV's Hostile Third Party compatriot and the true first winner of the Merc bid from Night 0. A few other things I'm sure.
Imho it all boils down to not enough to counter the circumstantial evidence that Dizzy was apparently busted in the company of an apparently thrice dead body along with one confirmed scum.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 16, 2012 22:46:31 GMT -5
If Guiri was the Merc, then why weren't you announced as the New and Improved Merc (tm)? He died before he could complete the Merc mission. he died because he bid too much not because he was lynched. No, he didn't. From the Night 0 thread, in which the Mercenary is first introduced: From Night 2: It's quite clear that if guiri "bid too much" that two things would have happened: a) the final vote count including the secret 'Mercenary votes' would have been revealed b) guiri would have been lynched Neither of these things happened. The final vote count was as expected. Pleonast was lynched. guiri died because someone stuck a knife in his back.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 16, 2012 22:54:41 GMT -5
I thought Peeker was being snarky that Guiri got pressured to claim because he had made the strategically questionable decision as the Town Doc to bid too many votes and because he had to claim he got killed.
Am I just stuck in the Looking Glass now?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 16, 2012 22:54:42 GMT -5
I think it is pretty clear that Guiri was Daykilled, and by Scum if I had to hazard a guess, but possibly by a Hostile Third Party too. This thought just occurred to me (I don't know if that makes me brilliantly intuitive or dumber than a brick): perhaps peeker killed guiri when he 'reappeared'. I have no idea why a role would be written in such a way, or if it would be game-breaking or not, or how we would deal with it if it were true... ...but it's no more 'out there' than a lot of theories that have been flying around lately...
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 16, 2012 23:09:28 GMT -5
Meeko found three people visiting peekercpa. The color from Pollux clearly indicates three killers.
Inner Stickler admits he's the vig. Silverjan flipped scum, so it is reasonable that she was there to perform scum's night kill.
So, there are only two possibilities (ok, it is a gastard game and the possibilities may actually be endless, but I'm sticking to what seems reasonable given what we know):
One: Dizzymrslizzy is lying and she was there to kill.
Two: KidVermicious lied and did not self protect AND when the "merc" visits, it is invisible to watchers (which kind of makes sense, the invisible to watchers part....).
What motivation would KidVermicious have had to lie about this? He garnered a lot of ill will by saying he self-protected. It seems like he would have been better off to say he was one of peekercpa's killers.
It seems like dizzymrslizzy has more motivation to lie.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 16, 2012 23:12:01 GMT -5
NETA: I suppose Meeko could be lying as a third possibility.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 17, 2012 1:06:43 GMT -5
There is no doubt in my mind that kid used the merc to kill.
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Post by Red Skeezix on Oct 17, 2012 1:11:07 GMT -5
The idea that the winning bidder on the merc becomes the merc is laughable:
Tell me how that fits into this quote from the moderator, in the game opener post:
"But what if there's a tie?! Simple!!! Everyone who tied for highest bidder gets to make a choice! At Dusk, the Mercenary will receive all the request and choose the one he wants to carry out! That makes sense!!!!"
Peeker, you are so full of shit your eyes are turning brown.
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