Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 17, 2012 13:28:53 GMT -5
What's the matter, Burby, nervous that Pizza's going to narrow the field for you and your scum buddies to hide in? Nervous that Pizza's lulling us all into a false sense of security. One of Pizza's big problems with the way we play Mafia, which he's gone on about in the past, is that we tend to rely on our Power roles to 'solve the game' for us. He doesn't like it when the Town sits back and waits for their Investigators to find all of the Scum; he much prefers that players try to identify Scum by playstyle, voting records, etc. In this game, he's basically saying "Don't worry, me and my buddy will soon have everything figured out for you. Just do as I say and everything will be fine." It just seems out of character for him. Now it could be that he's simply playing the hand that was dealt him...if he has this ability, then there's no reason he shouldn't use it for the benefit of the Town. But you must admit that there is a rather large gap between his claimed abilities and his claimed (but not yet revealed) results. That may be due to his partner, or it may be an indication that things are not as they seem to be. SisC, given your nature I'd think you of all people would be at least as paranoid as I am about this...why aren't you? Does pizza strike you as a "I will do one thing, and say another" type of person? He could say that he is making a big merc bid, and then not.....
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 17, 2012 13:43:05 GMT -5
What's the matter, Burby, nervous that Pizza's going to narrow the field for you and your scum buddies to hide in? Nervous that Pizza's lulling us all into a false sense of security. One of Pizza's big problems with the way we play Mafia, which he's gone on about in the past, is that we tend to rely on our Power roles to 'solve the game' for us. He doesn't like it when the Town sits back and waits for their Investigators to find all of the Scum; he much prefers that players try to identify Scum by playstyle, voting records, etc. In this game, he's basically saying "Don't worry, me and my buddy will soon have everything figured out for you. Just do as I say and everything will be fine." It just seems out of character for him. Now it could be that he's simply playing the hand that was dealt him...if he has this ability, then there's no reason he shouldn't use it for the benefit of the Town. But you must admit that there is a rather large gap between his claimed abilities and his claimed (but not yet revealed) results. That may be due to his partner, or it may be an indication that things are not as they seem to be. SisC, given your nature I'd think you of all people would be at least as paranoid as I am about this...why aren't you? Because at this point in the game, while I acknowledge Pizza could certainly be lying and trying to lull us all into false security, I find him far more trustworthy than I do you. In fact, I find most of the players in the game more trustworthy than I do you, come to think about it, as should be clear from the fact that I've voted you for two days straight now. If Pizza is scamming us all he's playing a very long game -- which I do know him to be capable of. So is it possible he and his theoretical partner are a co-winning pair of third-party hostiles? Sure it's possible. I haven't ruled it out. But I think it's much more likely that you're Scum than that I'm not being paranoid enough.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 17, 2012 14:03:07 GMT -5
Nervous that Pizza's lulling us all into a false sense of security. One of Pizza's big problems with the way we play Mafia, which he's gone on about in the past, is that we tend to rely on our Power roles to 'solve the game' for us. He doesn't like it when the Town sits back and waits for their Investigators to find all of the Scum; he much prefers that players try to identify Scum by playstyle, voting records, etc. In this game, he's basically saying "Don't worry, me and my buddy will soon have everything figured out for you. Just do as I say and everything will be fine." It just seems out of character for him. Now it could be that he's simply playing the hand that was dealt him...if he has this ability, then there's no reason he shouldn't use it for the benefit of the Town. But you must admit that there is a rather large gap between his claimed abilities and his claimed (but not yet revealed) results. That may be due to his partner, or it may be an indication that things are not as they seem to be. SisC, given your nature I'd think you of all people would be at least as paranoid as I am about this...why aren't you? Because at this point in the game, while I acknowledge Pizza could certainly be lying and trying to lull us all into false security, I find him far more trustworthy than I do you. In fact, I find most of the players in the game more trustworthy than I do you, come to think about it, as should be clear from the fact that I've voted you for two days straight now. If Pizza is scamming us all he's playing a very long game -- which I do know him to be capable of. So is it possible he and his theoretical partner are a co-winning pair of third-party hostiles? Sure it's possible. I haven't ruled it out. But I think it's much more likely that you're Scum than that I'm not being paranoid enough. I think it's more likely that Pizza is simply overestimating the actual value of his information, than that he's engaging in some grand scheme. It's simply a matter of numbers, and at the moment they don't quite add up. I can also confirm without question that BillMc charged up my power on the night he claimed to do so. This enhanced ability will clear a townie or condemn them. I can also report that my mason partner has successfully cleared someone else as nonhostile. Due to our both surviving, we have a massive chance of revealing THREE additional cleared townies/nonhostiles tomorrow, in addition to all the other cleared ones we have found so far. If the vig can remove one more scumbag, one more hostile, or one more unknown even if they're not hostile, that makes the remaining deductive work easier, albeit the last scenario is still the least desirous. Inner Stickler: Do you want a specific recommendation, or do you prefer to choose your own? The sentence I'm having trouble with is this one: "Due to our both surviving, we have a massive chance of revealing THREE additional cleared townies/nonhostiles tomorrow, in addition to all the other cleared ones we have found so far." We know that Pizza has cleared a total of 0 players so far, assuming he has been completely forthcoming about his abilities. Our claimed Vig has successfully killed each Night, so he can give us no proof of Pizza's protective ability. And even if Inner is not the town Vig, we dopn't have anyone else claiming to have unsuccessfully targeted a person that Pizza has also tagged, so there's no evidence that Pizza himself has been able to clear anyone. But that's OK, because Pizza doesn't claim that he's done anything by himself. He has a partner. And according to Pizza, they will be able to clear a minimum of 4 people Tomorrow (assuming that "all the other cleared ones we have found so far" is actually only 1). That just seems like a rather tall order. It seems to require that Pizza's Mason partner cleared at least 4 people in 4 Nights Now, that's certainly not impossible, but it is unlikely. Here's one way it could be possible: maybe Pizza's partner is the Vig. Pizza can tag a player one Night, and his partner can shoot them the next Night. If they guess well, they could clear one player per Night, and possible more if Bill charged them. But it's still a long shot that they would guess that well. It also seems like an overpowered combo, not to mention the problems it would cause for Inner's claim. I think it's more likely that one (or more) of three things is going on: 1) Pizza is not being completely forthcoming about his Powers. He has some ability that he's still keeping hidden from us. Town Powers hiding information is not necessarily a 'bad thing' (it's pretty much required in many cases), but it does tend to cause problems when claimed abilities don't quite match up to evidentiary results (like now). 2) Pizza is over-valuing the information that he and his partner have uncovered. This is actually quite likely. For example, even if Pizza is being 100% truthful about his claim, it doesn't definitely clear anyone. Just because Pizza tags a player, and the Vig shoots at the player and fails to kill them, that doesn't prove the player is Town. The player could have been protected, the kill redirected, the player immune, etc. It suggests the player is Town, but it does not clear them. So it's quite possible that Pizza and hid partner can give us a list of 4 or 5 or more names that they think are 'probably Town', but based on the evidence that has been provided so far they can't definitively clear anyone. 3) Pizza is lying through his teeth. In this case, all bets are off and pretty much anything is possible. there is currently no evidence I am aware of that he's being at all untruthful, but there's also very little evidence that anything he's said has any value. I'm almost positive that 2) is true to some extent, and I'm pretty certain that 1) is in play as well. I'm honestly not terribly worried about 3) at the moment, because until there's some evidence that his story is false (as opposed to simply incomplete), there would be nothing we could do about it anyway. Perhaps when Pizza and his partner reveal their list of 'cleared players' everything will add up, particularly if his partner identifies himself and his abilities, but at the moment it just doesn't. And that makes me uneasy.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 17, 2012 14:18:02 GMT -5
We know that Pizza has cleared a total of 0 players so far, Assuming we can believe ginger, he's cleared one. Also, for what it is worth, I pee'd blue last night.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 17, 2012 14:26:54 GMT -5
We know that Pizza has cleared a total of 0 players so far, Assuming we can believe ginger, he's cleared one. Also, for what it is worth, I pee'd blue last night. How does that prove that Ginger is Town? Unless I'm missing something (which is certainly not without precedent) the only thing that confirms is that Pizza can make people pee blue.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 17, 2012 14:56:40 GMT -5
I thought Pizza said the blue-peeing related to the pee-er's Towniness or ability to be Town.
I could be misremembering.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 17, 2012 15:03:13 GMT -5
I thought it was tagged players have a 50% chance of peeing blue.
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Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Post by Meeko on Oct 17, 2012 15:09:43 GMT -5
I thought it was tagged players have a 50% chance of peeing blue. And two lines you're pregnant.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 17, 2012 15:11:06 GMT -5
OK, here's the relevant portion of Pizza's claim:
I had remembered his claim as saying that there was a 50% chance that his target would pee blue.
But as written, it appears to say that there is a 50% chance that his target would pee blue if that target is Town or potential Town.
If you read it that way, then the fact that Ginger peed blue would indicate that she is either Town or could become Town, the latter of which suggests (or does it positively indicate?) that she is Nonhostile.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 17, 2012 15:14:57 GMT -5
NETA: I'm not sure that's how Pizza interpreted his power, though. Day 3, post 113: "Also, if you're tagged by me, you will pee blue [50% of my targets will have that side effect]." Pizza seems to be saying there that there is a 50% chance that his target will pee blue regardless of Alignment/Designation. Pizza, can you clear this up?
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 17, 2012 15:46:39 GMT -5
NETA: I'm not sure that's how Pizza interpreted his power, though. Day 3, post 113: "Also, if you're tagged by me, you will pee blue [50% of my targets will have that side effect]." Pizza seems to be saying there that there is a 50% chance that his target will pee blue regardless of Alignment/Designation. Pizza, can you clear this up? A PIS test on a Piss test.
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Post by LightFoot on Oct 17, 2012 15:49:16 GMT -5
To be fair to ATPG, this is his 4th opportunity to tag someone, he was blocked one night and we lynched Silver Jan who claimed she peed blue. So best case scenario right now is that there's gonna be two tagged people out there which is not a really high portion of the group. I don’t recall – where did Jan say she peed blue? And would that not have been impossible ( if the pizza is not soured ) If she did say it that should have sent flags up all over for ATPG and I don’t recall a hue and cry
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 17, 2012 15:52:52 GMT -5
I think I confused my jan and my JBG.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 17, 2012 15:53:51 GMT -5
Dear all.
My elderly PC came down with a terminal case of BSoD at about 8pm this evening. It's so terminal it won't even boot in safe mode. I'm using a laptop I have temporary custody of to post this.
I do have a second PC, but setting it up is more complex than just pulling out the old and slotting in the new. I have to move some furniture around and disentangle many cables. I'm hoping to be up by the end of the week. I'll let you know how it goes.
I've already posted in Last Stand requesting a sub, but this game is further on and it'll be harder for a new player to catch up.
Hope to be back online soon.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 17, 2012 16:49:36 GMT -5
<font style="font-size: 12px; ">OK, here's the relevant portion of Pizza's claim: Quote:<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" class="quote" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="100%"> After a bit of adjusting, you've changed your tagging device to track the symptoms of possible mental instability and amplify them. Each Night, you may choose a target to Tag. If you Tag someone who is Town, the beacon in the Tag will warn away any Town who wants to kill them. A person is Tagged permanently, so if they are not Town when initially Tagged but change to Town alignment over the course of the game, the Tag will activate and you will not have to re-tag them. The Tag will not ward off anyone working against Town interests. Unfortunately, you have yet to work out the side effects of your tagging device, and as such there is a 50% chance any Town or potential Town who is Tagged will pee blue.</td></tr></tbody></table> I had remembered his claim as saying that there was a 50% chance that his target would pee blue. But as written, it appears to say that there is a 50% chance that his target would pee blue if that target is Town or potential Town. If you read it that way, then the fact that Ginger peed blue would indicate that she is either Town or could become Town, the latter of which suggests (or does it positively indicate?) that she is Nonhostile. <font style="font-size: 12px; ">NETA: I'm not sure that's how Pizza interpreted his power, though. Day 3, post 113: "Also, if you're tagged by me, you will pee blue [50% of my targets will have that side effect]." Pizza seems to be saying there that there is a 50% chance that his target will pee blue regardless of Alignment/Designation. Pizza, can you clear this up? I had interpreted it to mean that the 50% chance of peeing blue only applied if the person was Town. But clearly you're right that pizza's MMV.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Oct 17, 2012 17:56:02 GMT -5
There are just too many unknowns out there.
I agree with a lot of the arguments here.
I'd like to know more about the Merc's role, and why/how story knows that it's an actual person in the game.
I'd like to know why Peeks is begging to be recruited by both sides. Does his WinCon = that he get recruited by both sides of players.
If Bill is Town and Pizza is Town and Pizza's other dude cop friend is Town and Inner is Town and Ginger is Town and I'm Town
How is Colby also Town? There are just too many people claiming Town and it doesn't add up if Red's numbers are true.
Why are there so many quiet people....We've heard practically nothing from: Patricia Lightfoot LaurieRN Rich
I'd add MHaye, but he claims IRL issues, so I'm going to pardon him.
What's going on with you all?
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Oct 17, 2012 18:05:11 GMT -5
Assuming we can believe ginger, he's cleared one. How does that prove that Ginger is Town? Unless I'm missing something (which is certainly not without precedent) the only thing that confirms is that Pizza can make people pee blue. It doesn't. It proves that Pizza Tagged me. I thought that it would mean that if the Vig targeted me and I was tagged by Pizza that I would not die if I was town. If I was Scum or 3rd Party, I would die with the kill of the Vig. I posted that I pee'd to let the know Vig know I was tagged and to target me if they wanted to prove I am town.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 17, 2012 18:24:26 GMT -5
It doesn't. It proves that Pizza Tagged me. I thought that it would mean that if the Vig targeted me and I was tagged by Pizza that I would not die if I was town. If I was Scum or 3rd Party, I would die with the kill of the Vig. While I am leaning toward Town on you, there are other variables that could explain your survival if the Vig happened to target you and you happened to not die. The Vig's kill could be redirected or blocked, you could be protected, etc. So the tagging and/or your Townieness are not the only possible explanations for such a hypothetical turn of events.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 17, 2012 18:58:50 GMT -5
If Bill is Town and Pizza is Town and Pizza's other dude cop friend is Town and Inner is Town and Ginger is Town and I'm Town How is Colby also Town? There are just too many people claiming Town and it doesn't add up if Red's numbers are true. If Red's numbers were true, they were only true at the point he received them, and may or may not have been modified by Town recruitment since posting. Similarly, any and/or all of the six people you've listed may or may not have started out as Town and been recruited. Also, I don't think you're Town, but...you know.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Oct 17, 2012 18:58:54 GMT -5
There are just too many unknowns out there. I agree with a lot of the arguments here. I'd like to know more about the Merc's role, and why/how story knows that it's an actual person in the game. I'd like to know why Peeks is begging to be recruited by both sides. Does his WinCon = that he get recruited by both sides of players. If Bill is Town and Pizza is Town and Pizza's other dude cop friend is Town and Inner is Town and Ginger is Town and I'm Town How is Colby also Town? There are just too many people claiming Town and it doesn't add up if Red's numbers are true. Why are there so many quiet people....We've heard practically nothing from: Patricia Lightfoot LaurieRN Rich I'd add MHaye, but he claims IRL issues, so I'm going to pardon him. What's going on with you all? Agreed. This is why I wanted to know how many town players we had at Dusk today
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 17, 2012 19:02:24 GMT -5
Peeker, you are so full of shit your eyes are turning brown. <snipped> and all this time i thought it was genetic. not the full of shit part but the brown eyes part. go figure.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 17, 2012 19:04:41 GMT -5
If you read it that way, then the fact that Ginger peed blue would indicate that she is either Town or could become Town, the latter of which suggests (or does it positively indicate?) that she is Nonhostile. isn't there already one claimed townie that is hostile?
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 17, 2012 19:07:44 GMT -5
What's going on with you all? <snipped> well i am trying to hold up my end. and i am not begging to be recruited. matter of fact i think i have made it plain that any such attempt would be a waste of time. i'm trying to get killed so i can come back again and annoy the ever loving piss out of you fine folks.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 17, 2012 19:14:53 GMT -5
i'll make a deal. kill me toNight or lynch me toMorrow and when i come back i will post my full unedited pm. i think it might answer some questions and give all sides some interesting positions that they could take. i might take a little longer nappy this time, however.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Oct 17, 2012 19:32:39 GMT -5
<snip> Why are there so many quiet people....We've heard practically nothing from: Patricia Lightfoot LaurieRN Rich I'd add MHaye, but he claims IRL issues, so I'm going to pardon him. What's going on with you all? No offense, but this is bull. Post numbers: Day/Night........ Rich's.......... dizzy'sDay 1................38...................18 Night 1...............5......................3 Day 2................45....................22 Night 2..............31.....................7 Day 3................22.....................6 Night 3...............8......................7 Day 4................29....................14 Night 4 (to date) 11.....................2 Total................189...................79 So from my perspective, we've hardly heard anything from you. And you seem to have been skimming.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 17, 2012 20:01:13 GMT -5
If you read it that way, then the fact that Ginger peed blue would indicate that she is either Town or could become Town, the latter of which suggests (or does it positively indicate?) that she is Nonhostile. isn't there already one claimed townie that is hostile? All Town are hostile, but not all hostiles are Town.
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Post by lauriern on Oct 17, 2012 20:01:53 GMT -5
There are just too many unknowns out there. I agree with a lot of the arguments here. I'd like to know more about the Merc's role, and why/how story knows that it's an actual person in the game. I'd like to know why Peeks is begging to be recruited by both sides. Does his WinCon = that he get recruited by both sides of players. If Bill is Town and Pizza is Town and Pizza's other dude cop friend is Town and Inner is Town and Ginger is Town and I'm Town How is Colby also Town? There are just too many people claiming Town and it doesn't add up if Red's numbers are true. Why are there so many quiet people....We've heard practically nothing from: Patricia Lightfoot LaurieRN Rich I'd add MHaye, but he claims IRL issues, so I'm going to pardon him. What's going on with you all? RL issues. I read though all the posts earlier today, but didn't have time to post. I only have a page or 2 to read to catch up, but I'm not doing it tonight - Hubby's calling . I'm in another game as well and Day ended tonight so I've been over there for bit. I'm not working tomorrow, so I'll try my best to catch up then.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 17, 2012 20:03:35 GMT -5
i'll make a deal. kill me toNight or lynch me toMorrow and when i come back i will post my full unedited pm. i think it might answer some questions and give all sides some interesting positions that they could take. i might take a little longer nappy this time, however. Why do I get the feeling that no one should press that red button?
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Post by lauriern on Oct 17, 2012 20:03:51 GMT -5
There are just too many unknowns out there. I agree with a lot of the arguments here. I'd like to know more about the Merc's role, and why/how story knows that it's an actual person in the game. I'd like to know why Peeks is begging to be recruited by both sides. Does his WinCon = that he get recruited by both sides of players. If Bill is Town and Pizza is Town and Pizza's other dude cop friend is Town and Inner is Town and Ginger is Town and I'm Town How is Colby also Town? There are just too many people claiming Town and it doesn't add up if Red's numbers are true. Why are there so many quiet people....We've heard practically nothing from: Patricia Lightfoot LaurieRN Rich I'd add MHaye, but he claims IRL issues, so I'm going to pardon him. What's going on with you all? RL issues. I read though all the posts earlier today, but didn't have time to post. I only have a page or 2 to read to catch up, but I'm not doing it tonight - Hubby's calling . I'm in another game as well and Day ended tonight so I've been over there for bit. I'm not working tomorrow, so I'll try my best to catch up then. I didn't actually realize how close I was to being caught up - lol! I'll still post tomorrow though - Off to bed ;D
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Post by LightFoot on Oct 17, 2012 20:10:44 GMT -5
i'll make a deal. kill me toNight or lynch me toMorrow and when i come back i will post my full unedited pm. i think it might answer some questions and give all sides some interesting positions that they could take. i might take a little longer nappy this time, however. Why do I get the feeling that no one should press that red button? I'm with you on that one at this point
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