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Post by Malacandra on Jun 3, 2007 10:46:20 GMT -5
A mild breeze sets in shortly before four bells in the morning watch, and all hands are piped on deck to make sail. But two hands are missing... storyteller0910 (Crew) is found in the famous apple barrel, gagged like a Yuletide boar's head and stabbed through the kidney. Kyrie Eleison (Crew) somehow became entangled in the rope wound around the capstan, and by the time he is found and released not only is he thoroughly strangled but his neck is lolling like a rag doll's. Day Three ends at 9pm my time on Thursday 7th May. You may prefer not to end a third successive day on a tie.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 3, 2007 11:50:06 GMT -5
Oh, well. At least I survived the first night. Good luck, town; the coming Day promises to be an interesting one.
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Post by Kyrie Eleison on Jun 3, 2007 12:10:11 GMT -5
I'm starting to dislike night two. Good luck, salty dogs.
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Post by capybara on Jun 3, 2007 12:57:12 GMT -5
Oh, wow. Sorry guys. So it looks like Dick got a kill in (or he didn't and Ben's been put in action and made a mistake). Also our putative officers made it through the night-- that's interesting, but I don't know what it means. Could be that the various killin' parties anticipated that one or the other would be protected and went for safer game? So.
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Post by zuma on Jun 3, 2007 13:49:02 GMT -5
Storeyteller is not too surprising, but Kyrie?
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Post by Gadarene on Jun 3, 2007 14:31:20 GMT -5
Damn. Not too surprising, I guess, although I was hoping that storyteller (if not a pirate) would be protected, since it's been pretty clear from the outset that he'd be one of the primary scum targets. And ouch to Kyrie for going out on the second night again. capy:Couldn't it just mean that it doesn't particularly benefit the pirates or Dick to do away with them? While the Doctor obviously can thwart the pirates' goals, the Squire and Trelawney are basically just masons, aren't they? Is there a reason that they'd be likely to be targeted?
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Post by capybara on Jun 3, 2007 14:59:58 GMT -5
capy:Couldn't it just mean that it doesn't particularly benefit the pirates or Dick to do away with them? While the Doctor obviously can thwart the pirates' goals, the Squire and Trelawney are basically just masons, aren't they? Is there a reason that they'd be likely to be targeted? Um.. . I guess it doesn't particularly matter? (I thought these two were more important but I've just reviewed their roles and they don't seem to do much special, aside from the doctor-- why DO these roles exist?) [Holds hands up]-- first time player! I guess the only difference now is that they're 'out' as crew, but the pirates already knew that, didn't they? Could have been good for Dick to kill confirmed crew instead of taking a guess, but other than that I don't know. Point taken.
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Post by capybara on Jun 3, 2007 15:01:47 GMT -5
"Could have been good for Dick" meaning it would have been good FOR DICK-- that is, not good for the crew or otherwise objectively good.
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Post by diggitcamara on Jun 3, 2007 15:33:20 GMT -5
Storeyteller is not too surprising, but Kyrie? Storyteller is probably the pirates kill (the "smart" kill: one or the other of the officers was protected). And Dick is probably going for people that give him just the right reads, but aren't obvious targets (remember, his kills go after the pirates' kills)
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Post by capybara on Jun 3, 2007 15:50:48 GMT -5
Ok, at the risk of thinking too hard too early in the day and bringing the wrath of the already-suspicious upon myself, now we have a number of confirmed (dead) and claimed crew. What can we do with that info?
I've been looking at the voting records and the only thing that sticks out for me so far (tunnel vision) is that of the 5 who voted for me on day 1, 3 were crew (this might only mean something if we accept the theory that the pirates are trying to distribute themselves-- if this was the crew accidentally doing things all on its own with the pirates chuckling to themselves elsewhere this might be meaningless). I realize this information could also probably be interpreted in ways that implicate me, but so be it.
There aren't enough data to be helpful with K-Roo's vote. I think yesterday's vote was too confused to mean much of anything clear in the end (the 2/3 votes in the end for FCOD that were crew, for example, were most likely due to voter absence).
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Post by Mad The Swine on Jun 3, 2007 16:21:27 GMT -5
Storeyteller is not too surprising, but Kyrie? Back in the Werewolf days,one of the scummiest things I noticed was when werewolf dnooman asked a question like Zuma's here. Dnooman said "anyone else wondering why the heck they killed Rysto last night?" I thought,at the time, he had just hung himself with such an obvious tell, but no one else picked up on it,course I didn't say anything cause I was a wolf myself. I know it is early in the day,and early votes are frowned upon,but since he has pinged me more than once ,especially with this last post,I am gonna vote zuma.
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Post by capybara on Jun 3, 2007 16:53:28 GMT -5
Mad, Could you explain that a bit? I'm dense and am not following. Is it too "aw, shucks"?
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Post by Lakai on Jun 3, 2007 17:39:54 GMT -5
Damn. Not too surprising, I guess, although I was hoping that storyteller (if not a pirate) would be protected, since it's been pretty clear from the outset that he'd be one of the primary scum targets. That is why he probably wasn't targeted the first night. He was killed today because the pirates were betting that one of our two "masons" would be watched.
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Post by Lakai on Jun 3, 2007 17:45:15 GMT -5
Storeyteller is not too surprising, but Kyrie? Back in the Werewolf days,one of the scummiest things I noticed was when werewolf dnooman asked a question like Zuma's here. Dnooman said "anyone else wondering why the heck they killed Rysto last night?" I thought,at the time, he had just hung himself with such an obvious tell, but no one else picked up on it,course I didn't say anything cause I was a wolf myself. I know it is early in the day,and early votes are frowned upon,but since he has pinged me more than once ,especially with this last post,I am gonna vote zuma. Just because a werewolf in the previous game asked an obvious question doesn't mean that everyone else that asks that question will be scum.
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Post by Mad The Swine on Jun 3, 2007 17:46:17 GMT -5
Mad, Could you explain that a bit? I'm dense and am not following. Is it too "aw, shucks"? It's too much "innocent, confused crew,now the pirates got me so confused,I might as well jump overboard and take my chances with the sharks." Again,the same tactic was used in WWI by a Werewolf. (plus,I read about it being a scum tell at another site that I won't mention. )
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 3, 2007 17:53:49 GMT -5
"Could have been good for Dick" meaning it would have been good FOR DICK-- that is, not good for the crew or otherwise objectively good. Obligatory "I bet the pirates really like Dick"
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Post by Mad The Swine on Jun 3, 2007 18:00:18 GMT -5
Back in the Werewolf days,one of the scummiest things I noticed was when werewolf dnooman asked a question like Zuma's here. Dnooman said "anyone else wondering why the heck they killed Rysto last night?" I thought,at the time, he had just hung himself with such an obvious tell, but no one else picked up on it,course I didn't say anything cause I was a wolf myself. I know it is early in the day,and early votes are frowned upon,but since he has pinged me more than once ,especially with this last post,I am gonna vote zuma. Just because a werewolf in the previous game asked an obvious question doesn't mean that everyone else that asks that question will be scum. Yes,I know.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 3, 2007 18:14:49 GMT -5
panamajack, I'd really like you to address why you snipped out the part of your quote relevant to the point I was making. I haven't figured out how to link to posts yet, but I think it was post 476 on Day 2 that I am referring to. Carrying over my thoughts from yesterday, vote panamajack.
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Post by capybara on Jun 3, 2007 18:26:18 GMT -5
haven't figured out how to link to posts yet, but I think it was post 476 on Day 2 that I am referring to. I think you mean post #436, FWIW.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 3, 2007 18:35:39 GMT -5
haven't figured out how to link to posts yet, but I think it was post 476 on Day 2 that I am referring to. I think you mean post #436, FWIW. Thank you capy, you are correct, it's post #436.
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
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Post by Parzival on Jun 3, 2007 18:41:23 GMT -5
hockeymonkey, I only have a short time to respond at the moment. For now I'll just mention the quoting bit.
I didn't mean to imply that I hadn't said I thought you were crew. At the time I meant a tacit acknowledgment of that statement, but with the clarification that I clearly didn't mean it in an ingratiating way. Which is why I only quoted the other part.
Saying "here's what I said" is where I went wrong. I shouldn't have put it that way without quoting the whole bit, and I should have openly acknowledged that I said what I said about you, especially for anyone else's benefit.
Regardless of that bad move on my part, if you simply go back and take the entire quote, it still doesn't imply strongly that I think you are crew that deserved to live.
As I said, I don't have time now, but I think I saw someone else (or maybe more than one person) say they thought you were crew, without the added "but I'd rather see her dead than the other two". Is there any particular reason you picked me? Could you elaborate on the other points against me?
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Parzival
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Post by Parzival on Jun 3, 2007 18:42:45 GMT -5
Since I said I'd do it, here's what I picked up on Lakai.
Post summary up to Day 2 (most recent first)
Day 2
#473 - asks why FCOD didn't role claim earlier
#275 - discussion of power rules & vanilla crew
#220 - discusses storyteller's different playing style
#219 - defends against hockeymonkey vote on him
#67 - makes another case against hockeymonkey
Day 1
#409 - vote for hockeymonkey (partly for her seemingly unoriginal reasoning)
#321 - asks if Auntbeast might be inexperienced town, unvotes Kyrie
#249 - response to Kyrie's questions about his vote for Kyrie, and more about cowgirl's power role question.
#188 - questions Blaster Master's lack of posts.
#143 - discusses cowgirl's response to Kyrie (answering a question which Kyrie asked him)
#140 - votes for Kyrie (doesn't like Kyrie's reasons for voting for cowgirl)
#136 - responds to Kyrie, feeling that Kyrie mischaracterized cowgirl's power role question
#42 - agrees with storyteller we should look at voting reasons, not statistics. Random voting on Day 1 should be avoided.
- anything else in Day 1 was before the 'official switch'.
Google groups (only one post as far as I can tell)
May 21 12:17 - our only info comes after death, will vote shot in the dark later.
(at one point capybara asked for MHaye's & Lakai's thoughts; it appears he didn't respond).
Looking at these posts, there's nothing that really sticks out as particularly scummy to me. I think that's partly what bothers me. He seems so calm, not particularly worried about the crew, or intent on finding pirates. It may not be much, but it's the sort of behavior that makes me think "lurking pirate" as opposed to "lurking crew".
This was enough to get me to vote when we had so little information, but I think things have changed for today. I'm leaving this with a feeling of suspicion and a hope to see more of Lakai looking for pirates.
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Post by Hal Briston on Jun 3, 2007 21:40:38 GMT -5
Obligatory "I bet the pirates really like Dick" Well, if you happen to wake up tomorrow morning tied to the anchor, I'm thinking that is going to be the motive.
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Post by ArizonaTeach on Jun 4, 2007 1:07:21 GMT -5
Whew. Quick thoughts before I go to bed.
My assumption is that the pirates felt it was more important to take out vanillas then a couple masons this early in the game. I noticed that in M2, but it won't be long. I'll reiterate what I said at the end of last night - there HAS to be a small amount of pirates - very small - because there are three pirate-aligned roles as well, the crew has no detective to speak of, the doctor's protection doesn't always work, the number of officer roles is set and known to all, and nobody is making night-kills in the ship's favor. If there were more than five pirates at the start of the game, we're screwed. Otherwise, over 1/3 of the players are aligned pirate with virtually no chance except for blind luck on Steele's part to discover who they are. That's not sour grapes, I'm just saying this is more difficult than any of the the other games so far for the good guys.
I take full responsibility for mhaye's death. I had to make a choice between hockey monkey and mhaye, and while I don't know if there was a right choice (it's possible that we were led into a three-way crew lynch yesterday, but it's also possible that hockey monkey was just putting on a show and would have "reluctantly" voted for someone else at the last minute - I don't think we should discount that), obviously mhaye was a wrong one. I just felt, since there were a set number of officers it was too valuable to lose any of them that early. The thing that drove me nuts last night was capy's vote in the last minutes of the day.
Anyone notice how one of the deaths had a stab wound and one didn't?
I hadn't realized Lakai had been so...non-responsive. The lack of some people's postings, which never bothered me much, is starting to grate on me now, for some reason. And I reiterate my request for Auto to get his ass in the game!
Tomorrow I guess it's time to look over our unfortunate crew-members' posts and start taking a close look at who was involved in the voting yesterday...
Still not comfortable with zuma's attacks on me.
And my quick thoughts just took twenty minutes to compose. Hunh.
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Post by autolycus on Jun 4, 2007 2:27:47 GMT -5
Yarrr, no salmagunda for you Arizona. Shiver me timbers, I've already been posting more than me previous life.
Fine, here's a thought for ye before I retire for the evening. If I finally have teh Pirate Code (rules) right, then the only scurvy dogs who know roughly what time day will break be the pirates. Thus, the beginning posts may have a higher concentration of piracy, savvy? What do ye crewmen think?
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Post by tirial on Jun 4, 2007 6:50:56 GMT -5
MadtheSwine's early vote for Zuma was interesting - I'd been looking in that direction myself, largely due to his vote for ArizonaTeach who is now apparently confirmed crew*. Zuma hasn't posted much. On the other hand storyteller and MadtheSwine both voted and unvoted zuma yesterday (Malacandra D2 P308). In P142 Gadarene comments on the post counts, and Zuma's is fairly low - its showing as 17 now. *I did wonder if Arizonateach and FCOD could be two pirates pulling this, but if they were, they could have expected at least three crew in the game to know they were lying, so it seems unlikely. For the moment I'm going to assume they are what they claim.ArizonaTeach P23 "That's not sour grapes, I'm just saying this is more difficult than any of the the other games so far for the good guys." (Excuse me while I hold off judgement on that until after Game III ends. We don't know for sure how many pirates there are in this or mafia in that.) "Still not comfortable with zuma's attacks on me."I can see why - looking at zuma's posts D2 Post36 says he doesn't think its important whether the pirates or Deadeye killed fluiddruid. Fair enough. I think it would be useful to know, especially as its the only solid evidence we had at that time, but I am open to other viewpoints. However in P37 zuma follows up by voting Arizonateach for raising it? it just seems wrong. So I started having a look at the post that lead zuma to vote him. D2 P32 ArizonaTeach says that "The fact that the knives are such a big deal to the role tells me, at least, that we can make assumptions about the murder description." and asks whether Dick Deadeye would knife someone for targetting him. Following his logic: Day One: Fluiddruid: could be a knife kill, may not be. Its difficult to tell. ArizonaTeach seems to think it wasn't because of the word "raggedly". (If I am wrong on this Arizonateach please correct me) "An exsanguinated corpse is discovered stuffed in the anchor locker, its throat cut raggedly from side to side." Day 2: Storyteller was stabbed, Kyrie was strangled. Now, I think storyteller was an obvious pirate target. He was coming across as bright, posting a lot of analysis and would have been a threat.I agree with lakai P12 that with the two masons claiming, the pirates may have taken a chance on them being the ones watched. However if we following the reasoning about knives in the murder description, wouldn't that make storyteller Dick Deadeye's kill? If we assume fluiddruid and Kyrie were pirate kills, can we find anything by crossreferencing their votes or suspicions? (Will look later am currently in rush - does anyone else think that line of enquiry is worth following?) Autolycus P24 "Thus, the beginning posts may have a higher concentration of piracy, savvy? What do ye crewmen think?" Possibly, but there's a flaw in your logic. It only works if the pirates are the last people to submit night instructions (which is quite likely) - otherwise they are as much in the dark as the rest of us. Its also possible they will guess people think like that and stay away from the game during the start of the day. Its a tell but unfortunately not conclusive. Which remainds me Idle Thoughts: P15 "Obligatory "I bet the pirates really like Dick" Are you saying they suck ? (Sorry couldn't resist.)
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Post by capybara on Jun 4, 2007 7:35:56 GMT -5
The thing that drove me nuts last night was capy's vote in the last minutes of the day. Sorry, but I really was more suspicious of FCOD that Hockeymonkey and lacked the information that you had. I'm sorry it turned out this way-- I take partial responsibility for your outing. Thus, the beginning posts may have a higher concentration of piracy, savvy? What do ye crewmen think? OR spazzes that don't have other hobbies near the computer. . . I checked in a few times to see whether the new day had come. Is checking people's 'last log in' and such metagame a type of trickery that subverts the spirit of the game, or fair play, by the way? I suspect the former. . .
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Post by capybara on Jun 4, 2007 7:37:49 GMT -5
(and the first two posters are dead crew anyway, and we others posted hours after day started. Weak argument there)
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Post by Hal Briston on Jun 4, 2007 8:08:10 GMT -5
Is checking people's 'last log in' and such metagame a type of trickery that subverts the spirit of the game, or fair play, by the way? I suspect the former. . . Not only is it bad form, it's simply a bad idea -- it's bound to give you misleading info. Someone could decide to see who is consistently online during the night, and decide that person is a pirate. Trouble is, the one doing that investigating is also consistently online at night. And that does even take into account those (like myself) who keep a dedicated Hispaniola browser window open 24/7.
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Post by capybara on Jun 4, 2007 8:42:14 GMT -5
While we're thinking about Zuma: I have conflicted feelings. Although he's made some odd statements I tend to think he's crew because (and several of you won't agree with this reasoning for obvious reasons) he voted to bring day 1 to a tie when I was about to snuff it, and since I'm crew (bear with me, AZ and FCOD-- suspend your disbelief) I don't see why he would have done that if he were a pirate and knew that I were crew, unless he was really dicking around and likes chaos. Anyone that's suspicious of him in part because of that move, please keep in mind that that (particular) suspicious move that he made is predicated on the theory that I'm scum, and consider why you've transferred your suspicion of me to him.
His posts regarding AZ Teach are harder for me to deal with. On a couple of points I tended to agree with him at the time (most of day 1's post #254 (I was, I admit, suspicious of you, AZ Teach), but a couple of other times I wondered what he was smoking (day two, reply #36. I was one who thought that considering who had killed whom would be a useful exercise).
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