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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 7:20:46 GMT -5
Post by patricia on Jan 25, 2013 7:20:46 GMT -5
I will reveal one, however...the first one says: a. Christians initially have sin. This tells me something right away: If Patricia says she doesn't have any sins (something she seems to imply in post 78, unless I'm reading/taking it wrong), she must not be a Christian. This seems to put the nail in Patricia's coffin if Idle is telling the truth. I will note that I do not have the "Christians intially have sin" hint in my PM though. vote Patricia See what I get for trying to tell my follow christians about something we " c. Never reveal to another player nor allow another player to figure out your Cardinal Sin. " are not to talk. This will most likely get me nightkilled by the devils but that is better than being lynched by your teammates I have Initial Sins: 1 Cardinal Sin: None so in plain english no not everyone has every type of sin
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 7:23:31 GMT -5
Post by patricia on Jan 25, 2013 7:23:31 GMT -5
Thanks Dizzy - and ok Guiri I got that as well then So your third hint was a warning, right? ok - I only have the two hints that Lightfoot listed above so when guiri said three I was trying to find out what the third hint was and when I found out it was about sins I realized that some must have started the game with sins Now you only have two hints? What happened to the third one you had earlier? And you don't have any sins either? Vote PatriciaOne of these posts is a lie as it's a direct contradiction of the other, what are you hiding? I was trying to hiding that I don't have a Cardinal Sin
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 8:06:11 GMT -5
Post by scáthach on Jan 25, 2013 8:06:11 GMT -5
See what I get for trying to tell my follow christians about something we " c. Never reveal to another player nor allow another player to figure out your Cardinal Sin. " are not to talk. I thought you didn't get that in your role PM though? Or am I misreading?
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 8:11:25 GMT -5
Post by ryjae on Jan 25, 2013 8:11:25 GMT -5
scathach I am in the same boat as you, if I misread something I want to remove the vote. I admit I thought this was more substance than normal Day 1 votes receive but it makes sense the way Patricia explained it this time. The problem I have is the prior times were not as clear, at all.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 8:16:50 GMT -5
Post by scáthach on Jan 25, 2013 8:16:50 GMT -5
Yeah, patricia's defense seems plausible enough, but it could easily have been come up with on the spur of the moment, particularly since Idle has already revealed the existence of cardinal sins.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 8:42:30 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Jan 25, 2013 8:42:30 GMT -5
I believe this would be in conflict with the rules, which state that there are no compulsory alignment changes. X amount of sin may allow a Christian to become a devil, but that seems unlikely unless there's a finite amount of sin out there; otherwise the game risks having everyone become a devil, which would be suboptimal in balance terms :-)
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 8:47:51 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Jan 25, 2013 8:47:51 GMT -5
I was trying to hiding that I don't have a Cardinal Sin So you're saying that you don't have Cardinal Sin, but nonetheless received the admonition to avoid letting other players find out yours?
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 11:25:49 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 25, 2013 11:25:49 GMT -5
I just got a PM.
Someone (unknown) has offered to remove my sins tonight. I have until end of Day to tell the mod if I accept or not.
I think I'm probably going to say yes.
Just letting everyone know of this development. Guess there's some sort of sin purger or something out there.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 12:06:17 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 25, 2013 12:06:17 GMT -5
I am confused by Patricia's statements at this point, but not entirely convinced she's a Devil and not just an equally confused player.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 13:00:15 GMT -5
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Jan 25, 2013 13:00:15 GMT -5
I too am concerned about Patricia's statements....
There was no reason to blatantly leave out the "Can't talk about our sins" hint. I haven't decided if she was as described; trying to keep the last part secret, or if she's backpedaling now to cover her rear end.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 14:22:35 GMT -5
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Jan 25, 2013 14:22:35 GMT -5
Idle, do you know anything more about this "sin taker awayer" I know great english there.
Does your PM say anything else or just "someone has offered to take away your sin"
Like if your sin is taken away, is there anything you have to do to "repent" IDK just throwing some religious jargin at this trying to make sense of it?
Is it some sort of recruitment type thing, that if your sin is taken away you can become XYZ?
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 14:41:08 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Jan 25, 2013 14:41:08 GMT -5
Is it some sort of recruitment type thing, that if your sin is taken away you can become XYZ? I think I want to try and nip this in the bud. Games with the possibility of recruitment, especially closed ones, make people start to see recruitment in every possible action. For example, my game, the Gastard All-Stars one. One of the hints is "removing sins will always help your team." So I highly doubt by having sins removed your alignment will change or it will allow you to be recruited. I'm of the mind that the more sins you have, the easier it will be for the Devils to do things to you, whatever that may be.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 15:15:20 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jan 25, 2013 15:15:20 GMT -5
Ok then, I also have never played a multiple-vote game either, so I'm going to try approaching it a bit differently. Rather than voting for people I find scummy, let's try not voting for people I don't find scummy.
So with that in mind, let's get this ball rolling:
Vote: Hockey Monkey! Vote: silverjan Vote: guiri Vote: wombat99 Vote: Paranoia Vote: JustBeingGinger Vote: mistervisceral Vote: gnarlycharlie Vote: scathach Vote: storyteller0910 Vote: Chucara Vote: crys Vote: Suburban Plankton Vote: KidVermicious Vote: Pollux Oil Vote: Solaris Vote: texcat Vote: Lightfoot Vote: Idle Thoughts Vote: patricia Vote: HolyMoley! Vote: lauriern Vote: BillMc Vote: dizzymrslizzy Vote: Sister Coyote Vote: ryjae
(Yeah, the mods are gonna love me.)
So... now that I've voted for everybody... let's start eliminating votes. I will take my vote off anybody who can provide direct evidence to answer any of the following game-related questions. I'm of the opinion at this point that more information should help more than it obscures, especially if the devils are an "informed minority". (As you see below, I'm not taking that for granted.) I think we need to get informed about anything that can safely be revealed without giving the devils a definite advantage. So here's what I'm looking to be answered:
1) Which group has the most power to affect the outcome of this game - the living, or the dead? How do death mechanics work? Can any players kill themselves in order to "become" dead and thereby gain an advantage for their team?
2) My role PM, like some others - apparently many others, given the lack of discussion on this point - specifically states that I can't win if the devils do. But who are the devils? How many are there? Do they work alone, or in a group? Is there any evidence to assume that they're the standard "informed minority" scum group? Or to assume that they're not?
3) What effect can sins have on the living? What effect on the dead? What are the cardinal sins and what do they do?
4) Does "recruitment" refer to a player changing alignment at the request of another player, as most seem to have assumed; or can it also refer to something like, for example, players of the same alignment "finding" each other and gaining off-board communication or powers? How many recruiters are there, how many might be recruited, and what alignment do they have? Must they be alive? Or to flip that on its head: must they be dead?
I have loads more questions, but they'll do for starters. Any takers?
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Post by scáthach on Jan 25, 2013 15:20:46 GMT -5
I wonder why it was an offered thing though. As in not just a day action but something Idle had to accept?
(presuming he's telling the truth obviously)
Sent from my GT-N7100 using proboards
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 15:21:20 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Jan 25, 2013 15:21:20 GMT -5
I also have other clues about the game, listed under another section. Not sure if I should reveal all of them or if keeping some to myself for now is best. I will reveal one, however...the first one says: a. Christians initially have sin. This tells me something right away: If Patricia says she doesn't have any sins (something she seems to imply in post 78, unless I'm reading/taking it wrong), she must not be a Christian. Now this does present a quandry - as it contradicts my PM.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 15:29:35 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 25, 2013 15:29:35 GMT -5
I love it when we're barely into Day One and my head already hurts. <-not sarcasm.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 15:32:10 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 25, 2013 15:32:10 GMT -5
Moley, WRT your questions, based on color alone I would guess that the "cardinal sins" are akin to (or directly drawn from) the Seven Deadly Sins (a.k.a. the "capital vices" or "cardinal sins" so that's my clue):
Lust Gluttony Greed Sloth Wrath Envy Pride
As to what they do/what game effects they might have?
Hell if I know.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 15:35:10 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jan 25, 2013 15:35:10 GMT -5
Oh, and while I'm on the voting kick: Unvote: HolyMoley. And based on this: I agree with you here Holy.....Pleo did talk about the possibility of recruitment, and I specifically remember recruitment is optional.....So I'm wondering why Sis is insisting there isn't recruitment.... Nominating SisC for some more observation....with a placeholder Vote: Sis C[/color][/quote] I think "insisting" is much too strong of a word- And if you are basing your vote on Holey's post I read it as a soft clear on SisC so colour me confused about the basis of your vote missing a bit in the rules is not really a Scum tell[/quote] I agree with Lightfoot here, and would go a little further. Dizzy's post strikes me disagreeably. Feels like he's 1) "buddying" with me. 2) Using my post in an offensive argument while not actually reading it properly. 3) Misrepresenting the tone and context of Sis C's post as well (whether deliberate or not, Sis C's post contains a mistake when referring to the ruleset. I don't think she's "insisting" on anything.) If you're counting, that's two people's posts that Dizzy has either misunderstood or misrepresented in one single post of his own. That seems to me to be either really careless or really scummy. Were I inclined to vote for just two people right now, they'd be Patricia (no, I'm not convinced either by her confusing "sins" with "cardinal sins", which is what she seems to be claiming) and Dizzy. Now based on a few quick assumptions, namely that 1) the Devils are an informed minority; 2) that the Christians are mostly or all an uninformed majority; 3) that an uninformed majority player cannot "recruit" an informed minority without breaking the game; and 4) that a "recruiter" is a player who can offer another player the chance to switch alignments - I think that a Devil "recruiter" poses the single biggest threat to the Christians and should ideally be lynched ASAP. Since I don't think Sis C is likely to be a recruiter: Unvote: SisterCoyote.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 15:56:00 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jan 25, 2013 15:56:00 GMT -5
Please note that the current and final vote counts are kept in a separate thread. While there might be powers that affect the vote count or lynch, the vote count you see is supposed to accurately reflect the actual votes in the game threads. If you find an error, let me know.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 16:32:01 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Jan 25, 2013 16:32:01 GMT -5
From Holy Moley
only the Mod can answer these questions* ( or maybe a few Devils – but I doubt they will volunteer ) it’s a bad criteria for gaining an “ unvote”
• Except for a basic list of Sins ( which you have now)
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 16:41:59 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jan 25, 2013 16:41:59 GMT -5
I've got no answers for you, Moley. I wonder why it was an offered thing though. As in not just a day action but something Idle had to accept? (presuming he's telling the truth obviously) Sent from my GT-N7100 using proboards I am interested to know if anybody else finds this bit interesting, though...
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 16:42:07 GMT -5
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Jan 25, 2013 16:42:07 GMT -5
I agree with Lightfoot here, and would go a little further. Dizzy's post strikes me disagreeably. Feels like he's 1) "buddying" with me. 2) Using my post in an offensive argument while not actually reading it properly. 3) Misrepresenting the tone and context of Sis C's post as well (whether deliberate or not, Sis C's post contains a mistake when referring to the ruleset. I don't think she's "insisting" on anything.) If you're counting, that's two people's posts that Dizzy has either misunderstood or misrepresented in one single post of his own. That seems to me to be either really careless or really scummy. I'm sorry dear you are reading MY post incorrectly.... First of all I'm Female.... The little dialog box under my Avatar says so Secondly, I was simply agreeing that YES Recruiting was a possibility. That was the beginning and end of my agreeing with you, because yes you are right you went in a different direction than I did with what I thought was a slip. . SisC had made a mistake referring to the ruleset, I jumped on it because I thought was a slip not a mistake in reading the rules. When I saw that it looked like a true mistake, I backed off immediately and recanted my vote. What's the problem here. I misread nothing. I simply posted while reading, instead of reading of the current posts. I do that sometimes, because I get confused easily especially when there are players I am unfamilar with.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 17:41:36 GMT -5
Post by ryjae on Jan 25, 2013 17:41:36 GMT -5
I also have other clues about the game, listed under another section. Not sure if I should reveal all of them or if keeping some to myself for now is best. I will reveal one, however...the first one says: a. Christians initially have sin. This tells me something right away: If Patricia says she doesn't have any sins (something she seems to imply in post 78, unless I'm reading/taking it wrong), she must not be a Christian. Now this does present a quandry - as it contradicts my PM. Nothing in it contradicts mine.. I started with a sin and am a Christian so I am interested in more about this. I do not have any information about who or what has sins out of the gate so it very well could be something important you have found so please elaborate some. My very life is on the line
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 17:56:22 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Jan 25, 2013 17:56:22 GMT -5
If people think it's good to reveal the rest of the clues I have under the other section, let me know. Only you can judge that. What do you make of Bill's comment in #104? I haven't decided if she was as described; trying to keep the last part secret, or if she's backpedaling now to cover her rear end. If she has, as she claims, no cardinal sin, why would she have a warning about revealing her cardinal sin to other players? And if she hasn't got that warning in her PM, why claim to have it? 1) Which group has the most power to affect the outcome of this game - the living, or the dead? I don't think it's as clear cut as that: This game is multi-level. Dead players should still participate in order for their team to win. We need exactly 26 players. If we do not have 26 players when it is time to start, another game and ruleset will be used instead. But who are the devils? How many are there? Do they work alone, or in a group? Is there any evidence to assume that they're the standard "informed minority" scum group? Or to assume that they're not? We know is that there's an enemy, we must stop Devils from winning, killing devils helps Town, and there could be possibly other factions: You, one of the Great Powers of Light, have come to stop this Apocalypse. Your strength is not enough to prevail alone, yet you know there is not unanimity among your peers. For some have already fallen to the Enemy and perhaps some have sworn fealty to Other Powers. I am interested to know if anybody else finds this bit interesting, though... Interesting as in suspicious or informational? It's curious that Idle was asked to accept having his sins cleared - having sins removed is always beneficial so it seems like a no-brainer if you're Town. I can't think of a reason why he'd want to keep his sins intact but that depends on how you interpret "increasing" in the second hint: gaining new sins may or may not be beneficial or accumulating sins may or may not be beneficial.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 18:27:27 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Jan 25, 2013 18:27:27 GMT -5
1) Which group has the most power to affect the outcome of this game - the living, or the dead? How do death mechanics work? Can any players kill themselves in order to "become" dead and thereby gain an advantage for their team? 2) My role PM, like some others - apparently many others, given the lack of discussion on this point - specifically states that I can't win if the devils do. But who are the devils? How many are there? Do they work alone, or in a group? Is there any evidence to assume that they're the standard "informed minority" scum group? Or to assume that they're not? 3) What effect can sins have on the living? What effect on the dead? What are the cardinal sins and what do they do? 4) Does "recruitment" refer to a player changing alignment at the request of another player, as most seem to have assumed; or can it also refer to something like, for example, players of the same alignment "finding" each other and gaining off-board communication or powers? How many recruiters are there, how many might be recruited, and what alignment do they have? Must they be alive? Or to flip that on its head: must they be dead? Here we go. This post strikes me as super, super, super de duper fishy. For one, we have no reason to believe the Devils have more information on these subjects than we do. All these questions, honestly, seem like they're more helpful to whatever scum group(s) are out there as anybody who has access to/reveals this information will become a prime target, especially since they obviously know more about the game than a standard player. Furthermore, I really think we should put a lid on any discussion about cardinal sin. Revealing anything about that seems to be bad, bad news. Unlike regular sin, where adding more sin may or may not be beneficial, the only hint about cardinal sin is it's bad to reveal it. Which means either it plays into the Devils' powers, OR there's another group or person that works off of it. The more we talk about it, the more someone/anyone could slip up, so I as a person am going to be giving the stinkeye to anybody that seems too curious about that particular aspect of the game. I wonder why it was an offered thing though. As in not just a day action but something Idle had to accept? (presuming he's telling the truth obviously) According to the hint, My guess is there are some roles in the game that may perform better the more sin they've acquired. So not every person will want to immediately cleanse their sins, which is probably why it's an offering over a standard action. What I do find interesting is that it was offered to Idle mid-Day, so it doesn't resolve as a regular Day action.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 20:52:16 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jan 25, 2013 20:52:16 GMT -5
1) Which group has the most power to affect the outcome of this game - the living, or the dead? How do death mechanics work? Can any players kill themselves in order to "become" dead and thereby gain an advantage for their team? 2) My role PM, like some others - apparently many others, given the lack of discussion on this point - specifically states that I can't win if the devils do. But who are the devils? How many are there? Do they work alone, or in a group? Is there any evidence to assume that they're the standard "informed minority" scum group? Or to assume that they're not? 3) What effect can sins have on the living? What effect on the dead? What are the cardinal sins and what do they do? 4) Does "recruitment" refer to a player changing alignment at the request of another player, as most seem to have assumed; or can it also refer to something like, for example, players of the same alignment "finding" each other and gaining off-board communication or powers? How many recruiters are there, how many might be recruited, and what alignment do they have? Must they be alive? Or to flip that on its head: must they be dead? Here we go. This post strikes me as super, super, super de duper fishy. For one, we have no reason to believe the Devils have more information on these subjects than we do. All these questions, honestly, seem like they're more helpful to whatever scum group(s) are out there as anybody who has access to/reveals this information will become a prime target, especially since they obviously know more about the game than a standard player. Furthermore, I really think we should put a lid on any discussion about cardinal sin. Revealing anything about that seems to be bad, bad news. Unlike regular sin, where adding more sin may or may not be beneficial, the only hint about cardinal sin is it's bad to reveal it. Which means either it plays into the Devils' powers, OR there's another group or person that works off of it. The more we talk about it, the more someone/anyone could slip up, so I as a person am going to be giving the stinkeye to anybody that seems too curious about that particular aspect of the game.. I agree with the principle and I did put a disclaimer about information that "wouldn't obviously help the Devils" or something similar. Part of that is revealing specific Cardinal Sins. (Assuming the threat posed by them comes from the Devils, which there seem to be zero proof of from anybody, myself included.) I'm not asking people to reveal what sins they have, I'm asking for game mechanics. I'm fishing for information here. I'm not expecting to catch a whale, but a few shrimp might prove useful. I'm not sure what to think about the Idle situation, apart from the obvious: either there's a role out there that can offer to remove sins during the middle of the day, or Idle's telling a rather pointless-seeming lie for reasons of his own. I'm inclining towards option #1. Like Ryjae, I'd like to know where the contradiction is within BillMC's role PM. There's nothing in my role PM to either confirm or contradict Idle's contention that all Christians start the game with sin (of the non-cardinal variety). I also have one sin, so I can provide at least negative confirmation of what he's said. Unvote: Ryjae. For a bit more negative confirmation. It's not much but Ryjae is feeling "genuine" so far. Dizzy - I haven't re-read your stuff yet and it's getting close to 2AM here. I'm gonna put off responding to your post until I've had some time to do so. I will, however, keep in mind that you are female. (Mrs. Lizzy? I only just got that!)
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 23:04:47 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jan 25, 2013 23:04:47 GMT -5
There isn't anything I can really offer to give more insight into the game, although I did have an a. b. and c. to my hints.
I'm wondering what happens if someone reveals their Cardinal sin or if someone figures out someone else's.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 23:50:17 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 25, 2013 23:50:17 GMT -5
Idle, do you know anything more about this "sin taker awayer" I know great english there. Does your PM say anything else or just "someone has offered to take away your sin" Just that and that I need to reply back whether or not I accept before Day ends. I also have other clues about the game, listed under another section. Not sure if I should reveal all of them or if keeping some to myself for now is best. I will reveal one, however...the first one says: a. Christians initially have sin. This tells me something right away: If Patricia says she doesn't have any sins (something she seems to imply in post 78, unless I'm reading/taking it wrong), she must not be a Christian. Now this does present a quandry - as it contradicts my PM. So you're saying yours says not all Christian's have sins? If people think it's good to reveal the rest of the clues I have under the other section, let me know. Only you can judge that. What do you make of Bill's comment in #104? No idea. Anyway, I've decided to post my second hint set, which is listed under the heading of "Powers", although how just knowing extra info is a power, I have no idea. So aside from the three first things (Lynching/killing devils always helps, removing sins always helps our team but increasing them may/may not be good, and never reveal to another player your cardinal sin)... I also got these five clues: 1. You have some important knowledge about the game. There may be exceptions to some of the following facts. a. Christians initially have sin. b. Lynching a Christian is a sin. c. Christians that die without sin will go directly to Heaven (this is good). d. If a Devil can determine a Christian's Cardinal Sin, the Devil can claim their soul for Hell (this is bad). e. Christians that die with sin will go to Purgatory until their final fate is determined. ----------------------------------------- There is more in my PM, but I'm going to keep it to myself for now as it pertains only to me.
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Day One
Jan 25, 2013 23:51:48 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 25, 2013 23:51:48 GMT -5
I'm wondering what happens if someone reveals their Cardinal sin or if someone figures out someone else's. I said it in my first post in here...but have again posted it above: Turns out doing that can make it possible for a Devil to claim their soul (which is bad, according to my PM).
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 1:02:12 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jan 26, 2013 1:02:12 GMT -5
Idle, do you know anything more about this "sin taker awayer" I know great english there. Does your PM say anything else or just "someone has offered to take away your sin" Just that and that I need to reply back whether or not I accept before Day ends. Now this does present a quandry - as it contradicts my PM. So you're saying yours says not all Christian's have sins? Only you can judge that. What do you make of Bill's comment in #104? [/quote] No idea. Anyway, I've decided to post my second hint set, which is listed under the heading of "Powers", although how just knowing extra info is a power, I have no idea. So aside from the three first things (Lynching/killing devils always helps, removing sins always helps our team but increasing them may/may not be good, and never reveal to another player your cardinal sin)... I also got these five clues: 1. You have some important knowledge about the game. There may be exceptions to some of the following facts. a. Christians initially have sin. b. Lynching a Christian is a sin. c. Christians that die without sin will go directly to Heaven (this is good). d. If a Devil can determine a Christian's Cardinal Sin, the Devil can claim their soul for Hell (this is bad). e. Christians that die with sin will go to Purgatory until their final fate is determined. ----------------------------------------- There is more in my PM, but I'm going to keep it to myself for now as it pertains only to me.[/quote] OK. It says there may be some exceptions, so I assume some Christians could have started the game with no initial sin, so BillMc could have a Christian role with no initial sin and believe that Idle's pm was contradictory to his. I'm guessing now that getting to Heaven is the goal for Christians and getting to Hell is the goal for Devils. I'll postulate that getting lynched or NK'd with no sins would be a very good thing. Would it be prudent to lynch someone with no sin to send them directly to Heaven? Probably not, but it did cross my mind in a what if.
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