Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 1:07:47 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jan 26, 2013 1:07:47 GMT -5
Well, quote tag got borked, but just the bit at the bottom of that last post was mine.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 1:14:23 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Jan 26, 2013 1:14:23 GMT -5
I don't see anything wrong with Idle's having to respond to have his sin cleared, I think it must have something to do with free will. It does bring up a question for me though, do the Devils have to have sins in order to win? That could work as an investigative tool somewhat, if you don't want your sins cleared then there must be a dark reason to keep them. So far Idle is coming across Townie/Christian to me and that's a good start.
Patricia's posts on the other hand worry me a bit, why doesn't she have a Cardinal Sin? Why lie about it? Do the Devils have Cardinal Sins? If, as I postulated, the Devils do need sins to win then a Cardinal Sin could only help them in their quest to win.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 1:19:52 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Jan 26, 2013 1:19:52 GMT -5
Hockey Monkey, I do understand what you are saying about sending a sinless Christian to Heaven but by doing so the players that voted for the lynch will get a sin thereby making it harder to win. That's how I understand it anyway.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 2:26:18 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Jan 26, 2013 2:26:18 GMT -5
Idle YOU MISS LEAD US You origionally posted Okay, all caught up. ~~snipped~~ I also have other clues about the game, listed under another section. Not sure if I should reveal all of them or if keeping some to myself for now is best. I will reveal one, however...the first one says: a. Christians initially have sin. This tells me something right away: If Patricia says she doesn't have any sins (something she seems to imply in post 78, unless I'm reading/taking it wrong), she must not be a Christian. But even without that, I think guiri makes a good point in his post right above, she seemed to flip flop really fast there. Vote PatriciaIf people think it's good to reveal the rest of the clues I have under the other section, let me know. And NOW you give us [underlining and bolding=mine] ~~ snpped~~ 1. You have some important knowledge about the game. There may be exceptions to some of the following facts. a. Christians initially have sin. b. Lynching a Christian is a sin. c. Christians that die without sin will go directly to Heaven (this is good). d. If a Devil can determine a Christian's Cardinal Sin, the Devil can claim their soul for Hell (this is bad). e. Christians that die with sin will go to Purgatory until their final fate is determined. ----------------------------------------- There is more in my PM, but I'm going to keep it to myself for now as it pertains only to me. You led us to believe that all Christians initially have sin But your full “ reveal” shows us there was a qualifier prior to that statement So the list MAY be not comprised of absolutes Bad form
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 2:32:45 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Jan 26, 2013 2:32:45 GMT -5
Idle you basically gave a piece of information with the pretense of giving us information
THAT WAS FALSE
THEN YOU ADMITTED IT
Vote: Idle
I need to hear more about this
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 2:35:27 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Jan 26, 2013 2:35:27 GMT -5
I'm guessing - if you go to puratory- you become a deceased player that is still in the game
if there is anything to be believed now from Idle's list
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 2:51:16 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 26, 2013 2:51:16 GMT -5
You led us to believe that all Christians initially have sin But your full “ reveal” shows us there was a qualifier prior to that statement So the list MAY be not comprised of absolutes Bad form You understand the word "exceptions" right? To me it reads as it says "There MAY be some exceptions to SOME" That puts a whole lot of "ifs" in the equation. For one...there only MAY be...for two, only may be to SOME (but not all). I take it as basically "Okay, all of these things are facts....there are probably one or two exceptions, though"...because exceptions, to me, means one or two...not more than that. Not to mention d reads "d. If a Devil can determine a Christian's Cardinal Sin, the Devil can claim their soul for Hell (this is bad)." What I get from that is that anyone who is Christian most likely has a Cardinal Sin...otherwise how would a Devil be able to claim their soul? Seriously, to claim I mislead you or was lying is a huge stretch. It's not that far off to assume that most of the facts are going to apply and that the exceptions are just that....rare occurences. Yeah, she could be an exception...doesn't mean I'm going to not be suspicious of her.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 3:22:23 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Jan 26, 2013 3:22:23 GMT -5
But Idle you can't deny that your initial post was misleading without the qualifier- the way you shared it the first time
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 3:41:11 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jan 26, 2013 3:41:11 GMT -5
I'm bothered by that too, Idle. it doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't think the whole "maybe" part was important.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 3:52:35 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 26, 2013 3:52:35 GMT -5
Yeah, ok, I guess with hindsight, it was a mistake and bad idea not to do it. But I honestly just didn't think of it at the time. Pointing it out makes me realize, yeah, okay... looks weird.
It doesn't make my suspicions of Patricia any less, though.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 3:57:13 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Jan 26, 2013 3:57:13 GMT -5
What I get from that is that anyone who is Christian most likely has a Cardinal Sin...otherwise how would a Devil be able to claim their soul? Maybe not all souls are claimable by Devils?
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 4:05:43 GMT -5
Post by Solaris on Jan 26, 2013 4:05:43 GMT -5
hello all i got the pm i am very sorry that i didn't check in before this i had work and classes i have the weekend free though, so after i get some sleep i should be able to get hunting for mafia and such thank you, goodbye for now
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 5:16:02 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Jan 26, 2013 5:16:02 GMT -5
1. You have some important knowledge about the game. There may be exceptions to some of the following facts. a. Christians initially have sin. b. Lynching a Christian is a sin. c. Christians that die without sin will go directly to Heaven (this is good). d. If a Devil can determine a Christian's Cardinal Sin, the Devil can claim their soul for Hell (this is bad). e. Christians that die with sin will go to Purgatory until their final fate is determined Earth, purgatory, heaven and hell? Wow, if that's the case, it's so elegant, what a great setup. Maybe Christians are born with original sin, should strive to be pure on earth but will be tempted to commit sins, forgiveness is possible while living, when they die they will either be claimed by a devil and go to hell, go to heaven if pure, or go to purgatory if sinful. From purgatory the final fate is to go to heaven, typically after a time of penance has passed which can be shortened by prayer or indulgences. I wonder how this influences our wincon, maybe our goal is to get as many as possible into heaven, the devil's goal is to get as many as possible into hell - but that would be sort of the reverse of mafia, more of a tagging game than mafia, right?
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 6:30:07 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jan 26, 2013 6:30:07 GMT -5
1. You have some important knowledge about the game. There may be exceptions to some of the following facts. a. Christians initially have sin. b. Lynching a Christian is a sin. c. Christians that die without sin will go directly to Heaven (this is good). d. If a Devil can determine a Christian's Cardinal Sin, the Devil can claim their soul for Hell (this is bad). e. Christians that die with sin will go to Purgatory until their final fate is determined Earth, purgatory, heaven and hell? Wow, if that's the case, it's so elegant, what a great setup. Maybe Christians are born with original sin, should strive to be pure on earth but will be tempted to commit sins, forgiveness is possible while living, when they die they will either be claimed by a devil and go to hell, go to heaven if pure, or go to purgatory if sinful. From purgatory the final fate is to go to heaven, typically after a time of penance has passed which can be shortened by prayer or indulgences. I wonder how this influences our wincon, maybe our goal is to get as many as possible into heaven, the devil's goal is to get as many as possible into hell - but that would be sort of the reverse of mafia, more of a tagging game than mafia, right? "Stop the devils from winning". Not "kill or lynch all the scum"...
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 9:19:43 GMT -5
Post by JustBeingGinger on Jan 26, 2013 9:19:43 GMT -5
Just getting caught up. I have been watching Sons of Anarchy from Season 1, been kind of engrossed.
Moley I do not agree with your strategy of voting everyone and then for them to qualify as a unvote you have to answer questions about game mechanics that either Christians have no way of knowing or if they do know something they are going to be revealing too much. You even post that you are seeking more information. We all are seeking information but it is not very Christian like to force a fellow Christian to possibly reveal more than they should simply to get a unvote from you. It also makes for a good excuse if you happen to mis-lynch a Christian due to " Well I voted everyone".
So for that Vote Holy Moley
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 10:53:27 GMT -5
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Jan 26, 2013 10:53:27 GMT -5
What I get from that is that anyone who is Christian most likely has a Cardinal Sin...otherwise how would a Devil be able to claim their soul? Maybe not all souls are claimable by Devils? I feel you there.... Being a RL Christian....I wouldn't consider Jesus's soul to ever be claimable by a Devil....Maybe in game there's a Jesus type role that has no Cardinal sin??? Or Initial Sin???
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 11:15:44 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Jan 26, 2013 11:15:44 GMT -5
Maybe not all souls are claimable by Devils? I feel you there.... Being a RL Christian....I wouldn't consider Jesus's soul to ever be claimable by a Devil....Maybe in game there's a Jesus type role that has no Cardinal sin??? Or Initial Sin??? So are you saying that Patricia could have a Jesus type role and that's why she doesn't have a Cardinal Sin?
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 11:21:33 GMT -5
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Jan 26, 2013 11:21:33 GMT -5
I don't know....I could go either way with Patricia
I find it highly unlikely that a Christian role doesn't have a Cardinal Sin.
The only explanations I have are to use my RL experiences to figure out what could be going on. It would also depend on Pleos experiences as well.
I would expect in a game like this, there's some "saving" force. Maybe Patricia is Jesus and 1- Has no sin, and 2- Can forgive others sins. IE: Idle's PM Today.
Maybe there's a Mother Theresa? Mary? God himself? Who knows where Pleo is leading us.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 11:27:31 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Jan 26, 2013 11:27:31 GMT -5
Idle you basically gave a piece of information with the pretense of giving us information THAT WAS FALSE THEN YOU ADMITTED IT Vote: Idle I need to hear more about this Bleached But if your own PM had said the same as Idle's then you would have known that there were exceptions, he was only quoting bits of it.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 11:38:40 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jan 26, 2013 11:38:40 GMT -5
Perhaps the person who is forgiving sins is a Priest?
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 12:28:42 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Jan 26, 2013 12:28:42 GMT -5
Idle you basically gave a piece of information with the pretense of giving us information THAT WAS FALSE THEN YOU ADMITTED IT Vote: Idle I need to hear more about this Bleached But if your own PM had said the same as Idle's then you would have known that there were exceptions, he was only quoting bits of it. I know for a fact that not everyone has a second set of “ clues “ To post ‘ helpfully’ a piece of information from your PM as an absolute- which makes another player look very guilty- THEN post the whole thing which includes a qualifier for the ‘absolute’ is misleading=sneaky=scummy are you saying that YOU have a similar set of secondary clues? Don’t answer that- it’s Day one some secrets can be shielded- but do share as much as you can before they kill at you
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 12:33:29 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Jan 26, 2013 12:33:29 GMT -5
"There MAY be some exceptions to SOME" That puts a whole lot of "ifs" in the equation. So you now say there may be exceptions - that there are a whole lot of if's...but you were absolutely certain in your prior post that Patricia was not a Christian since she did not have any sins. This tells me something right away: If Patricia says she doesn't have any sins (something she seems to imply in post 78, unless I'm reading/taking it wrong), she must not be a Christian. You're back peddling. Now let's say you are telling the truth - then your flawed assertion that Patricia is not a Christian as she says she has no sin - has resulted in in several folk revealing information about sins -- and from your "hints" it would appear that is is certainly beneficial for the scum to figure out who is a sinner and what their sins are. At best, I'd consider your play anti-town.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 13:13:10 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jan 26, 2013 13:13:10 GMT -5
I'm having trouble reconciling Holy Moley's motivation for voting for everyone and basically saying "guilty until proven innocent" as a Christian action.
vote: holy moley[/b]
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 13:43:14 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Jan 26, 2013 13:43:14 GMT -5
Bleached But if your own PM had said the same as Idle's then you would have known that there were exceptions, he was only quoting bits of it. I know for a fact that not everyone has a second set of “ clues “ To post ‘ helpfully’ a piece of information from your PM as an absolute- which makes another player look very guilty- THEN post the whole thing which includes a qualifier for the ‘absolute’ is misleading=sneaky=scummy are you saying that YOU have a similar set of secondary clues? Don’t answer that- it’s Day one some secrets can be shielded- but do share as much as you can before they kill at you I have to answer this, my set of clues are similar but not the same as Idle's and I was wrong about what I picked up from you about exceptions. I am so mixing up things in this game.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 14:31:21 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jan 26, 2013 14:31:21 GMT -5
Just getting caught up. I have been watching Sons of Anarchy from Season 1, been kind of engrossed. Moley I do not agree with your strategy of voting everyone and then for them to qualify as a unvote you have to answer questions about game mechanics that either Christians have no way of knowing or if they do know something they are going to be revealing too much. You even post that you are seeking more information. We all are seeking information but it is not very Christian like to force a fellow Christian to possibly reveal more than they should simply to get a unvote from you. It also makes for a good excuse if you happen to mis-lynch a Christian due to " Well I voted everyone". So for that Vote Holy Moley I'm having trouble reconciling Holy Moley's motivation for voting for everyone and basically saying "guilty until proven innocent" as a Christian action. vote: holy moley[/b][/quote] Whoof! OMGUS! You realise that I just voted the entire Devil crew in one fell swoop, right? That's gotta be a record. You guys are so not off my list. Unvote: Idle Thoughts.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 14:32:48 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Jan 26, 2013 14:32:48 GMT -5
Earth, purgatory, heaven and hell? Wow, if that's the case, it's so elegant, what a great setup. Maybe Christians are born with original sin, should strive to be pure on earth but will be tempted to commit sins, forgiveness is possible while living, when they die they will either be claimed by a devil and go to hell, go to heaven if pure, or go to purgatory if sinful. From purgatory the final fate is to go to heaven, typically after a time of penance has passed which can be shortened by prayer or indulgences. I wonder how this influences our wincon, maybe our goal is to get as many as possible into heaven, the devil's goal is to get as many as possible into hell - but that would be sort of the reverse of mafia, more of a tagging game than mafia, right? My guess is that the Devils have to get a certain amount of souls into Hell before they're all wiped out. Our goal isn't necessarily to get everyone into Heaven but to stop Devils from getting souls into Hell, but I think the more people are in Heaven the better off we are. Since dead players can still affect the game, my guess is that any players that end up in Heaven will have beneficial powers/abilities towards the Christian/Town side of the game. Purgatory probably will have minimal effect on the game, and players that go to Hell may end up having powers to help the Devil side. I'm not sure if that'd be considered "recruitment" or not, though. If we take Idle's extra information at face value, I'm fairly certain from this point forward people shouldn't share if their sins are removed or not. If the Devils have a Nightkill (which I don't see why they wouldn't) they're not going to target anyone that will go to Heaven if they're dead. They likely want people in Purgatory or Hell. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if they have a way of determining people's cardinal sins on their own, simply because if everybody keeps their mouth shut the Devils will never get an advantage. I doubt it's as simple as having a detective that figures out cardinal sins because that would be too easy for them, but there's probably some sort of mechanic in place for them. Because of this, I'd also advise if we have any vigilante-type role in the game, to keep your finger off the trigger and be wary of killing people. Since there are multiple levels to this game and death isn't the end, killing the wrong person could be twice as detrimental as usual. There's also probably more than one way to remove sins. Obviously there's someone with the power to do them a la Idle. But if there's only one role with that power and that power gets killed early, the Christian side would be borked. So there's probably multiple ways to have your sins forgiven.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 14:35:17 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jan 26, 2013 14:35:17 GMT -5
"There MAY be some exceptions to SOME" That puts a whole lot of "ifs" in the equation. So you now say there may be exceptions - that there are a whole lot of if's...but you were absolutely certain in your prior post that Patricia was not a Christian since she did not have any sins. This tells me something right away: If Patricia says she doesn't have any sins (something she seems to imply in post 78, unless I'm reading/taking it wrong), she must not be a Christian. You're back peddling. Now let's say you are telling the truth - then your flawed assertion that Patricia is not a Christian as she says she has no sin - has resulted in in several folk revealing information about sins -- and from your "hints" it would appear that is is certainly beneficial for the scum to figure out who is a sinner and what their sins are. At best, I'd consider your play anti-town. I'll take this one. Would scummy Idle Thoughts lie about something that could so easily be contradicted? This feels like a genuine mistake to me. And scum know how not to be anti-town.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 14:38:42 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jan 26, 2013 14:38:42 GMT -5
Earth, purgatory, heaven and hell? Wow, if that's the case, it's so elegant, what a great setup. Maybe Christians are born with original sin, should strive to be pure on earth but will be tempted to commit sins, forgiveness is possible while living, when they die they will either be claimed by a devil and go to hell, go to heaven if pure, or go to purgatory if sinful. From purgatory the final fate is to go to heaven, typically after a time of penance has passed which can be shortened by prayer or indulgences. I wonder how this influences our wincon, maybe our goal is to get as many as possible into heaven, the devil's goal is to get as many as possible into hell - but that would be sort of the reverse of mafia, more of a tagging game than mafia, right? My guess is that the Devils have to get a certain amount of souls into Hell before they're all wiped out. Our goal isn't necessarily to get everyone into Heaven but to stop Devils from getting souls into Hell, but I think the more people are in Heaven the better off we are. Since dead players can still affect the game, my guess is that any players that end up in Heaven will have beneficial powers/abilities towards the Christian/Town side of the game. Purgatory probably will have minimal effect on the game, and players that go to Hell may end up having powers to help the Devil side. I'm not sure if that'd be considered "recruitment" or not, though. If we take Idle's extra information at face value, I'm fairly certain from this point forward people shouldn't share if their sins are removed or not. If the Devils have a Nightkill (which I don't see why they wouldn't) they're not going to target anyone that will go to Heaven if they're dead. Ok, unfounded suspicions of me aside, this makes sense. (Enough that I'm rather annoyed that I didn't think of it myself... but anyways...) Unvote: Pollux Oil. If my count is right, that means I'm now voting 21 people instead of 26. Want to narrow things down a little more though.
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 14:52:05 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jan 26, 2013 14:52:05 GMT -5
Next person: Mrs Lizzy, you say you were only responding to the first part of my post. I don't get that at all from your post. Then again, your phrasing is weird and you have a habit of asking questions to which you've already suggested the answers. (You've done it twice to me.)
I'm not about to lynch somebody for weird phrasing, but neither am I going to clear them for it either. My vote on you stays. Don't take it too hard, you're currently in the company of twenty other people who are in the exact same position.
Totally random thought (in that I have no idea whether there's any basis for it or not, I just think it would be kinda cool): You've postulated Jesus as the "sin saver", or maybe "savior" is a better term. How about God as the Godfather?
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Day One
Jan 26, 2013 15:11:16 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Jan 26, 2013 15:11:16 GMT -5
~~~snipped~~ Whoof! OMGUS! You realise that I just voted the entire Devil crew in one fell swoop, right? That's gotta be a record. You guys are so not off my list. Unvote: Idle Thoughts. ~bleached~ As it stands you can call every vote on you an OMGUS vote since you made the brilliant move of voting everyone in game If you forget to – or just don’t – unvote a person that is eventually miss-lynched you can wash your hands of any responsibility for said miss-lynch because of your choice of play YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN TOWN PLAYERS AN AVENUE TO ‘EARN’ AN UNVOTE FROM YOU THAT IS VIABLE. And then you unvote the player that acted suspect towards Town in the same post I’m giving you a chance to “ come around” but you will have my vote at some point with this mind set
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