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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 14:11:10 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 7, 2013 14:11:10 GMT -5
This thing about sins is bugging me We KNOW that b. Removing your sins will always help your team, but increasing them may or may not be beneficial My PM ( as I stated before ) does not give a clue how to remove sins So it stands to reason that there is a mechanic- presumably a player- that can remove sins. So far we only have Idle’s word that 1. You have some important knowledge about the game. There may be exceptions to some of the following facts. a. Christians initially have sin. b. Lynching a Christian is a sin. c. Christians that die without sin will go directly to Heaven (this is good). d. If a Devil can determine a Christian's Cardinal Sin, the Devil can claim their soul for Hell (this is bad). e. Christians that die with sin will go to Purgatory until their final fate is determined. Idle has also told us that he had to PM his response to the offer----so WHY did Bill feel the need to announce his declination of the offer in public? Is Idle short cutting the truth ( which he did before by omission) ? OR Is Bill sharing useless information ( for reasons only he knows) ? OR has my frustration made me see imaginary spiders Assuming that Idle and Bill are both Town and both telling the truth: Bill might have felt the need to make a public announcement in order to let the 'Forgiver' know that he had received the offer and had declined it, and possibly to prevent further offers from being made. It may well be that the 'Forgiver' gets no feedback on his offers, much as a Doctor generally receives no feedback on his protections, so this might be the only way to give him feedback. As to why Bill doesn't want forgiveness: Perhaps he's Jesus and therefore incapable of sinning. Perhaps he can forgive his own sins. Perhaps sinning is beneficial to him, so he doesn't want to be forgiven. I don't see any reason that they can't both be Town, and that any perceived inconsistencies in their stories can't be nothing more than misunderstanding coupled with sub-optimal explanation. If we assume that either Bill or Idle, or both, are Scum and therefore lying, then any of their statements may mean just about anything at all. Or not.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 14:38:15 GMT -5
Post by scáthach on Feb 7, 2013 14:38:15 GMT -5
As to why Bill doesn't want forgiveness: Perhaps he's Jesus and therefore incapable of sinning. Perhaps he can forgive his own sins. Perhaps sinning is beneficial to him, so he doesn't want to be forgiven. I believe that yesterday when Idle said that all Christians had sin, BillMC said something like "That contradicts my role PM". So I'm guessing Bill is implying that he had no initial sin. (And thus according to Catholic doctrine, is the Virgin Mary. Nice!)
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 14:53:07 GMT -5
Post by mistervisceral on Feb 7, 2013 14:53:07 GMT -5
Are people... Actually still insisting that idle lied with intent? I think that's a bit of a silly case. One of the sillier ones for sure!
Now that I've looked back, bill has made a lot of silly cases. Including one about myself and how I "let the Patricia and lightfoot show go on"? First of all, the plf show is relevant to scum hunting. Second of all, even if it were something irrelevant, /I wasn't even online/. I don't really like your weak arguments on the other people either. It looks like you're trying to look like you're scumhunting but not really reading things fully or effectively.
vote: billmc[/color]
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 14:57:56 GMT -5
Post by scáthach on Feb 7, 2013 14:57:56 GMT -5
They are all called "hints" under number 1, but whatever. If you had instead posted that could have flown, instead I believe based on your You knew absolutely nothing about C, much like Patricia knew nothing about C. You know, I totally missed that yesterday but that's a fair point. On the other hand though, why would Lightfoot then leap on patricia if they both made the same scum slip? Given that no one else was really picking up on it. [/color] again! (yaaaay!) The reason this wagon isn't bothering me so much is because it reminds me of Patricia's wagon - quickly springing, but based on solid reasons. It unheebies my jeebies. LF flips town, we look the everliving stars out of ryjae. Actually we look the everliving stars and garders out of a lot of people. But that's potentially tomorrow's issue (and every day has enough trouble of its own!). SO.[/quote] Ick ick ick. vote mistervisceral If Lightfoot is town then frankly this makes you look like you're already setting someone up to blame tomorrow. (Of course, if she flips scum, then neverrmind)
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 15:11:09 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Feb 7, 2013 15:11:09 GMT -5
You know how Pleo likes to claim early.
He has given some of us roles that we would play better if we claimed at least part of our Role
If you are going to lynch me anyway- it’s important that you know that the vote count analysis may be askew. ‘specially the one off votes
I’ve got a role where I have a chance* to gain information on the players that I have a valid vote on at the EOD= others may too
I wasn’t sure how to use it D1 ( justifiably) and it appears it may be moot for D2
If I am seriously going to the noose I’ll share more- there is still a little time
* It’s a slim chance but it exists
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 15:36:31 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Feb 7, 2013 15:36:31 GMT -5
Wait... are you confirming that part of what Idle said, at least as it applies to yourself? I can confirm I got a message ToDay via Pleo offering to remove my sins. As for who sent it, their alignment, what their motivation for sending it is, and whether it is genuine is unknown. I do not need my sins forgiven as I have no sins to forgive.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 15:36:57 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Feb 7, 2013 15:36:57 GMT -5
I'm very mixed on the case against Lightfoot I see where the bandwagon is going, and I agree with a lot of it, but I really don't want to throw in a "me too" vote just yet. I also agree with Idle's case on Bill. It's very ironic the offer you were scoffing at, and scoffing at Idle posting publicly yesterDay you now got, and are not only posting about it, but are declining it? Why are you declining it??? Interesting comment and timing - as I received the offer after I posted. Ironic or a stitch up? Vote: vote: dizzylizzy
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 15:37:14 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Feb 7, 2013 15:37:14 GMT -5
Are people... Actually still insisting that idle lied with intent? I think that's a bit of a silly case. One of the sillier ones for sure! Now that I've looked back, bill has made a lot of silly cases. Including one about myself and how I "let the Patricia and lightfoot show go on"? First of all, the plf show is relevant to scum hunting. Second of all, even if it were something irrelevant, /I wasn't even online/. I don't really like your weak arguments on the other people either. It looks like you're trying to look like you're scumhunting but not really reading things fully or effectively. Now this is a very interesting post - I haven't actually made a case against anyone else - I certainly did not accuse you of anything. So as for not reading fully or effectively, your case and vote just proves that at best, you are skimming and at worst, you are just looking for any reason to place votes. Vote: vote: visceral
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 15:53:23 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Feb 7, 2013 15:53:23 GMT -5
You know how Pleo likes to claim early. He has given some of us roles that we would play better if we claimed at least part of our Role If you are going to lynch me anyway- it’s important that you know that the vote count analysis may be askew. ‘specially the one off votes I’ve got a role where I have a chance* to gain information on the players that I have a valid vote on at the EOD= others may too I wasn’t sure how to use it D1 ( justifiably) and it appears it may be moot for D2 If I am seriously going to the noose I’ll share more- there is still a little time * It’s a slim chance but it exists for clarity- and just in case you don't lynch me- the way I read it I'm unlikely to gain information about a Scum so my one off votes would generally be on likely Townies- so no need to NK me for that Scummers
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 16:52:29 GMT -5
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 7, 2013 16:52:29 GMT -5
Bill...Aren't you a better player than to just throw out a bunch of OMGUS votes? The only players you are voting for are players that are voting for you.... Your reactions are very telling IMO. I'm not quite sure where you are coming from here.
And yeah, interesting comment that you scoffed at Idle for posting it yesterDay and are posting it today. That's all. I don't like your case on Idle either to be honest with you.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 17:00:57 GMT -5
Post by mistervisceral on Feb 7, 2013 17:00:57 GMT -5
Whoosp. I could have sworn it was you, Bill lol. I just saw your post and was like "hey that was the guy who did this to me, bleh!" and in reality what I was recalling was a mix of lightfoot and texcat. I claim "new here" /o\
But yeah, I'm pretty much just looking for a reason to vote. Lightfoot is pretty much up to her neck in rope, and that's secured, so I just wanted something else to get stirred up before day end. I don't have that much reason to vote you, really. I just think your case on Idle was really really weak when he happens to be a townread of mine.
Unvote BillMC[/color]
WHO ELSE WANTS TO BE MISACCUSED BY ME?
~flutters away~
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 17:01:48 GMT -5
Post by mistervisceral on Feb 7, 2013 17:01:48 GMT -5
Oh and also your "whoever wanted to take away my sins, thanks" sure looks like reaction fishing. What was your intent for that post, Bill? (watch me revote you lololol)
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 18:10:48 GMT -5
Post by JustBeingGinger on Feb 7, 2013 18:10:48 GMT -5
Whoosp. I could have sworn it was you, Bill lol. I just saw your post and was like "hey that was the guy who did this to me, bleh!" and in reality what I was recalling was a mix of lightfoot and texcat. I claim "new here" /o\ But yeah, I'm pretty much just looking for a reason to vote. Lightfoot is pretty much up to her neck in rope, and that's secured, so I just wanted something else to get stirred up before day end. I don't have that much reason to vote you, really. I just think your case on Idle was really really weak when he happens to be a townread of mine. Unvote BillMC[/color] WHO ELSE WANTS TO BE MISACCUSED BY ME? ~flutters away~[/quote] I don't like the comment of Lightfoot's lynch being secured. You're not worried about a mis-lynch at all? Nothing is ever secured in a Mafia game until the fat lady sings and since I have lost a lot of weight it won't be me singing. I am not comfortable with the word secured, it sounds like you are sure of Lightfoot's alignment and are good with the lynch. I guess you are good with it considering you are the tie breaker to put her in the lead... Then you want to stir up more?
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 18:28:16 GMT -5
Post by mistervisceral on Feb 7, 2013 18:28:16 GMT -5
Secured as in "it's going to happen". I don't think we'll lynch a scum this easily. Again.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 18:36:53 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 7, 2013 18:36:53 GMT -5
unvote Lightfoot
I do see the counterargument to my initial point, and with her claim, I am unvoting.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 19:19:38 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Feb 7, 2013 19:19:38 GMT -5
And I'd like to thank whoever it is that offered to remove my sins, but it is unnecessary. This post caught my eye and I think it needs more of an explanation. BillMc, don't you have any sins to remove? Can you remove sins? (best not answer that) I don't know why you would post such a thing. If BillMc is Town then it would confirm Idle's post that there are exceptions to the rule that everyone starts off with a sin. Patricia was pretty confused about sins and whether she had one or not and looking at this post it seems as if BillMc doesn't have one. Vote BillMcHis post made me very uncomfortable and I would like to know more, it still feels like a scummy post to me. I agree. When I read BillMc's post, my first reaction was thinking it looked scummy, but I can't see Bill posting the way he has if he is scum. Yesterday Bill told us that his PM did match the others. Today he has made a point of telling us that he has no sins to be removed. I hate to say this, but I just think that scum wouldn't do that. *But I maintain the right to re-examine this in the future. Are people... Actually still insisting that idle lied with intent? I think that's a bit of a silly case. One of the sillier ones for sure! Now that I've looked back, bill has made a lot of silly cases. Including one about myself and how I "let the Patricia and lightfoot show go on"? First of all, the plf show is relevant to scum hunting. Second of all, even if it were something irrelevant, /I wasn't even online/. I don't really like your weak arguments on the other people either. It looks like you're trying to look like you're scumhunting but not really reading things fully or effectively. vote: billmcAnd I think that most of misterV's remarks about Bill are more accurate applied to misterV himself: weak arguments, looking like scumhunting, but not reading fully. Yep. Also lol at Para "overly defensive and aggressive" and that making him scum. LOL AT THAT. Para did not post that much Yesterday, but misterV had this comment to make. That combined with Para showing up dead this AM, along with misterV's insistence that we not talk about his death before anyone had even mentioned it. I am sticking with my vote on misterV.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 19:35:58 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Feb 7, 2013 19:35:58 GMT -5
Substitutions
gnarlycharlie -> Mahaloth
Solaris -> colby11
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 19:37:01 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 7, 2013 19:37:01 GMT -5
/me waves at Maha and colby.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 19:46:57 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 7, 2013 19:46:57 GMT -5
Vote manipulators are, in only very rare instances in my experience, Town-aligned.
However, for the moment I am going to wiffle on my waffle and
unvote: Lightfoot
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 19:51:09 GMT -5
Post by crys on Feb 7, 2013 19:51:09 GMT -5
[/color] Post #19 gets to me a little. Do you know some knowledge of how death works in this game? [/quote] No I wasn't claiming to know how death works at all. I was just posting my opinion on how communication with the dead may work. I have played with pleo on a couple of different games and imo he never makes anything easy lol. I doubt it would be as easy as they can just talk to us in the thread. My assumption is that there is probably a player that most likely has a communication with the dead ability.
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Colby11
Administrator
Creator of Hell's Kitchen Mafia
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 19:56:16 GMT -5
Post by Colby11 on Feb 7, 2013 19:56:16 GMT -5
I'm back on! Glad to be able to actually play.. (curses at his iPad and AT&T)
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 20:10:23 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Feb 7, 2013 20:10:23 GMT -5
Extends a fine Christian welcome and bunny hop to Mahaloth and Colby. Do the penalties from Solaris and Gnarly, move over to Colby and Mahaloth?
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 20:12:55 GMT -5
Post by crys on Feb 7, 2013 20:12:55 GMT -5
I'm back on! Glad to be able to actually play.. (curses at his iPad and AT&T) glad to see you colby and you too Maha
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 20:22:25 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 7, 2013 20:22:25 GMT -5
Glad to have you guys on board and hopefully contributing.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 20:38:24 GMT -5
Post by crys on Feb 7, 2013 20:38:24 GMT -5
After re reading I don't think Lightfoot is a good lynch choice for today. I know this is kinda meta, but I have seen when she plays town, she will rarely vote and jump on a runaway bandwagon, unless she is fairly sure she is correct. It was a small slip and had patricia not hung herself with the rope we so gladly gave her with adding to and retracting her statements etc I probably wouldn't have voted her either.
Mister Visceral pinged the hell out of me saying that we shouldn't discuss the death of para. Why would you want to avoid discussing that right out of the gate. Discussion generates information and information is pretty much always a plus for town.
BillMc's posts have seemed very omgus lately, however there may be some truth to vote placement helps some people use some powers.
Truth be told I find both MisterVisceral's and BillMc's posts to be slightly lazy and opportunistic.
I do know that we have more than one vote, but I think throwing votes away like candy could end up being way more confusing for town in the end. I am starting to think that mass voting would be a beneficial scum tactic to muddy the waters. I personally am going to try and keep my votes to a 2 vote maximum to lower confusion for me, and hopefully the rest of the christians.
Vote MisterVisceral Vote BillMc
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 20:50:49 GMT -5
Post by JustBeingGinger on Feb 7, 2013 20:50:49 GMT -5
Unvote Gnarlycharlie or Mahaloth Unvote Solaris or Colby11
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 20:57:36 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 7, 2013 20:57:36 GMT -5
snip
Day Two has begun. To prevent the Day from ending the same day as storyteller's Day, it will end on Friday, Feb 9, at 12n PT.[/quote]
PLEO - Does DAY end on Friday or on the 9th? Friday is the 8th.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 20:59:04 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 7, 2013 20:59:04 GMT -5
I fucking hate quote tags.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 21:10:54 GMT -5
Post by wombat99 on Feb 7, 2013 21:10:54 GMT -5
Idle says that his clue says that
Christians who die without sin go directly to Heaven (this is good)
If this is true, then shouldn't we be intentionally lynching Bill or Idle since they don't have any sins? Doesn't "this is good" mean that their deaths would further the Christian wincon?
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day Two
Feb 7, 2013 21:19:16 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 7, 2013 21:19:16 GMT -5
Idle says that his clue says that Christians who die without sin go directly to Heaven (this is good) If this is true, then shouldn't we be intentionally lynching Bill or Idle since they don't have any sins? Doesn't "this is good" mean that their deaths would further the Christian wincon? I brought this up on Day One, but was reminded that if we lynch Christians, we sin.
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