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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 15, 2013 15:40:13 GMT -5
So just how many points do you rack up every time you vote for someone? Are they like Indulgences or something for you? Or do just really, really, really, really like 'spreading the love'? Um, no. But, why do you ask? Are you trying to guess my Cardinal Sin? Why didn't you ask Holy Moley the same thing when he voted for basically every single person on the player list on Day One? Too bad I can't vote for you again, because that sure does sound like a Devilish thing to ask. Actually, I owe you an apology...I thought you were Holy Moley when I posted that, and that you (he) were continuing your (his) pattern of voting for damn near every player, every Day. It was meant in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek manner, though it did cross my mind that Holy Moley might get some sort of advantage from voting early and often. In my defense, you both have two word names, with initials H and M, and an exclamation point at the end! Plus, I wound up working 16 hours yesterday, got 4 hours of sleep, and was back at my desk at 7 this morning, so my brain activity at the moment is entirely dependent on caffeine...
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 15, 2013 15:41:16 GMT -5
I am still 100% certain his alignment is Christian. Really 100% Not like 95% or anything lol.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 15, 2013 15:42:53 GMT -5
Surburban- I actually give you the benefit of the doubt on that one if it's sincere (which I think it is), because I have been having a very hard time keeping them straight myself. I got in trouble there D1.
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 15, 2013 15:50:36 GMT -5
Who were you signalling to? Do you need to find others like you? Increasing sins may be beneficial. As in, it may be beneficial to lynch a Christian who is known to be sinless. With your partial claim, this takes on a new light. What do heretics get for lynching Christians? I don't have any information that tells me I need to find other Heretics; I was hoping to help stem the growing bandwagon against me (if another Heretic picked up on that, maybe they wouldn't vote for me); and I figured someone might be looking for me, for recruitment, conversion, I don't know...) I don't know what happens if a Heretic lunches a Christian. I will say that I started the game with one sin assigned to me. I have no information about how my voting relates to accumulating sins. I know that I can sin. Look - I know about as much about the game's setup and mechanics as (I think) the Christians know. I have my role PM, I have a power, I have a Cardinal Sin which gives me an additional power (and a sin if I use it) and That. Is. All. I. Know. Oh, and I have the additional confusion of having an alignment that is different and scary-sounding while having the same wincon as the Christians. For the record, that's why I didn't claim when I was close to being lynched Yesterday. I knew that throwing "Heretic" out there so close to EOD would have guaranteed my lynch.
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Post by texcat on Feb 15, 2013 16:06:21 GMT -5
NETA: Why not have him offer to clean Lightfoot's sins (someone who is an admitted Pagan) and see if there's a difference. I mean, why use me as an example, texcat? We have admitted Paganists around now and they seem too (so far) have the same wincon as Christians...so why have it be "Is it possible Idle is a pagan?" There something you don't believe about me saying I'm Christian? That's just a very odd question. Seems like an unnecessary small smudge on me. You are the only one that Ryjae has a Christian result for. I would just like Ryjae to read his PM and results carefully and confirm that they mean you are Christian and not just non-Devil. I did not mean it as a smudge on you at all, but a lot of us were just assuming that non-Devil meant Christian and I want to re-examine those assumptions. This especially after the SisC and Laurie fiasco.
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Post by texcat on Feb 15, 2013 16:09:03 GMT -5
Some typos are funnier than others.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 15, 2013 16:13:45 GMT -5
Let's assume for the moment that Christians, Pagans, and Heretics all have the same Win Condition. What does that mean?
That we all "must stop the Devils from winning." That "Lynching or killing Devils will always help (our) team"
That's pretty much all we know for certain.
That would seem to imply that the game ends with one of two results:
The Devils win, and everybody else loses. The Devils lose, and everybody else wins.
If that's the case, then there are no win-stealing factions.
Of course, I'm not sure it's a good idea to assume that Christians, Pagans, and Heretics all have the same Win Condition.
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Post by ryjae on Feb 15, 2013 16:14:59 GMT -5
NETA: Why not have him offer to clean Lightfoot's sins (someone who is an admitted Pagan) and see if there's a difference. I mean, why use me as an example, texcat? We have admitted Paganists around now and they seem too (so far) have the same wincon as Christians...so why have it be "Is it possible Idle is a pagan?" There something you don't believe about me saying I'm Christian? That's just a very odd question. Seems like an unnecessary small smudge on me. No I cannot verify anything now. Only Devils can kill me during the cleansing, that is the only positive I can vouch for atm. You are the only one that Ryjae has a Christian result for. I would just like Ryjae to read his PM and results carefully and confirm that they mean you are Christian and not just non-Devil. I did not mean it as a smudge on you at all, but a lot of us were just assuming that non-Devil meant Christian and I want to re-examine those assumptions. This especially after the SisC and Laurie fiasco.
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Post by ryjae on Feb 15, 2013 16:16:22 GMT -5
And that was a piss poor quote job
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 15, 2013 16:19:31 GMT -5
I got the same message as Idle did about protection and I accepted. I didn't have to do anything in the duel with Lauriern, I just got the PM at Dawn. I did get Investigation results on D2 about what someone did on N1 and I haven't revealed them yet. I didn't get results for N2 as I knew I wouldn't. I don't want to go into details about why I didn't, it would give the Devils too much information and I don't think that's a good thing. silverjan, I think it would be a good idea if you took a few moments to tell us, plainly and clearly and in some detail, exactly what PMs you received, how they affected your potential for using your abilities, and when you did or did not actually use your abilities. So far, it seems that you've given a lot of cryptic hints and hurried explanations, and it seems pretty obvious that there's a good deal of confusion about what you actually meant to say. Sowing confusion is not a Townie trait, so it would be a 'good thing' for you to set things straight.
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Post by texcat on Feb 15, 2013 16:21:07 GMT -5
NETA (again): I see you did the same with Hockey and MrV, Texcat...these really strike me as you trying to subtle smudge other players and cast doubt on results. If you're so curious, then why don't you just ask Ryjae to try cleaning the sins of one of the non-devil-non-Christians instead of seeming to subtly cast doubt? I very rarely use FOS in games, but if there is any time to use it: FOS texcat. I also REALLY agree with Idle here. You have smudged every played I'm confident is a Christian, and it's really unsettling. Vote: TexcatI will repeat that I am not trying to smudge players that we have results on. I am trying to clarify those results. I am still 100% certain his alignment is Christian. Really 100% Not like 95% or anything lol. I don't know what to make of this from someone who just voting for me based on my questioning of results. And why didn't you question this the first time Hockey said it? This doesn't count as a smudge, but my questions do???
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Post by texcat on Feb 15, 2013 16:32:06 GMT -5
NETA: I was trying to make the people who have given us results a little more responsible for those results. Now if mrV dies and flips anything but Christian, we will know that Hockey was lying. Before if mrV had flipped Pagan, Hockey would have been able to say that she wasn't lying, she was just confused.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 15, 2013 16:37:13 GMT -5
I don't know what to make of this from someone who just voting for me based on my questioning of results. And why didn't you question this the first time Hockey said it? This doesn't count as a smudge, but my questions do??? Because it's not a smudge on Hockey AT.ALL. Please take note of the last three letters in this quote. As I said, I fully believe Hockey in her assesment that Mr. V is 100% Christian which is why I don't like you smudging either of them
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Post by Pollux Oil on Feb 15, 2013 16:47:23 GMT -5
That we all "must stop the Devils from winning." That "Lynching or killing Devils will always help (our) team"I think this is a very important distinction that sheds some light on the whole mystery of Christians, Heretics, and Pagans. Up until this point, we assumed two teams: Christians vs. Devils. And as such, lynching Devils would always help OUR team, I.E. Christians. However, with Heretics and Pagans in the mix, now lynching Devils helps THREE teams. Each Heretic, Pagan, and Christian on a Devil's bandwagon helps their own team. Heretic lynching a Devil helps Heretics, not Pagans or Christians. Pagan lynching a Devil helps Pagans, not Heretics or Christians. And Christian lynching a Devil helps Christians, not Heretics or Pagans. We may all benefit from lynching Devils, but we're NOT all on the same team. As such, I think my idea that we're in some sort of race holds more water; whoever does the most damage to Devils pulls out as the eventual victor. In addition, up until this point we've been assuming that only Devils have use for Cardinal Sin. But for all we know, Pagans/Heretics/Christians may be able to use Cardinal Sin against the other teams as well. With this information, it's plausible that Sister Coyote was misinterpreting her PM. She got an innocent read on Laurie because she was Christian. It's likely she wouldn't have gotten innocent on Heretics or Pagans. At least that's another possible theory.
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 15, 2013 16:53:12 GMT -5
Pollux, would you be assuming equal numbers on the three non-Devil factions then?
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 15, 2013 17:08:34 GMT -5
That we all "must stop the Devils from winning." That "Lynching or killing Devils will always help (our) team"I think this is a very important distinction that sheds some light on the whole mystery of Christians, Heretics, and Pagans. Up until this point, we assumed two teams: Christians vs. Devils. And as such, lynching Devils would always help OUR team, I.E. Christians. However, with Heretics and Pagans in the mix, now lynching Devils helps THREE teams. Each Heretic, Pagan, and Christian on a Devil's bandwagon helps their own team. Heretic lynching a Devil helps Heretics, not Pagans or Christians. Pagan lynching a Devil helps Pagans, not Heretics or Christians. And Christian lynching a Devil helps Christians, not Heretics or Pagans. We may all benefit from lynching Devils, but we're NOT all on the same team. As such, I think my idea that we're in some sort of race holds more water; whoever does the most damage to Devils pulls out as the eventual victor. In addition, up until this point we've been assuming that only Devils have use for Cardinal Sin. But for all we know, Pagans/Heretics/Christians may be able to use Cardinal Sin against the other teams as well. With this information, it's plausible that Sister Coyote was misinterpreting her PM. She got an innocent read on Laurie because she was Christian. It's likely she wouldn't have gotten innocent on Heretics or Pagans. At least that's another possible theory. this would suggest a bookkeeping nightmare for the Mod I'd doubt he's done it ( although anything is possible )
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 15, 2013 17:10:12 GMT -5
First and foremost we need to remove the Devils Pitting the rest against each other is counter-productive at this point
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Post by Pollux Oil on Feb 15, 2013 17:37:34 GMT -5
Pollux, would you be assuming equal numbers on the three non-Devil factions then? Depends. Things like powers and how recruiting might come into play would alter the numbers a bunch. What I find interesting is that Christian was the first to come out, so Christian became the "Town" classification and Heretics/Pagans are the "Third-Party" but we have no real way of knowing which group makes up the largest number. It sure looks like the Christians, since we've had three Christian deaths and no Pagan or Heretics so far, but maybe the Christian group has just been super unlucky. this would suggest a bookkeeping nightmare for the Mod I'd doubt he's done it ( although anything is possible ) Remember, though, that Pleo has said this is a one-and-done setup. Which means there's some sort of secret/gameplay function that, when revealed at the end/is made public, would likely break the game in future iterations. My guess is it's the win conditions, and how exactly the three groups differ. There's got to be a reason we're not all one big happy Town-aligned family.
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 15, 2013 17:50:39 GMT -5
snipped But for all we know, Pagans/Heretics/Christians may be able to use Cardinal Sin against the other teams as well. How so?
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 15, 2013 18:08:46 GMT -5
snipped But for all we know, Pagans/Heretics/Christians may be able to use Cardinal Sin against the other teams as well. How so? We are told to never reveal to another player.....not just Devils although if you 'figured out' what someone's was who would you report it to?
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 15, 2013 18:40:29 GMT -5
Ok, first thing's first. I'm inclined to believe Crys, because I believe Lightfoot. The only question mark there would seem to be if the devils knew the Pagans / Heretics existed, and enough about them to fabricate a convincing false claim. This to me seems seriously unlikely - not impossible, but unlikely. Secondly, I've already made my thoughts on Wombat clear, and this claim of hers doesn't change anything in terms of my thinking she's not a devil. I won't deny it raises other questions about third parties, and the roles thereof; but they're not the kind of questions that get answered by lynching the questionee. Speaking of which... Who were you signalling to? Do you need to find others like you? Increasing sins may be beneficial. As in, it may be beneficial to lynch a Christian who is known to be sinless. With your partial claim, this takes on a new light. What do heretics get for lynching Christians? Guiri. I think it's safe to say that Wombat was signalling to the other Heretics, if any were out there, to take their votes off of her. In fact, I'd say that the moment you look at that post, it's obvious enough that it barely deserves mentioning, except possibly as negative confirmation of Wombat's claim (or, if it is fake - which I don't believe - then at least evidence that it was prepared long before any other third parties came forward) - and yet you don't just ask that question, but follow it up with a rhetorical question that you use as a reason to vote. You remember that I pointed out how Dizzy seemed to be using "accusing" questions as smudges? What you just did is what I'm talking about. And talking of which... 1. You must stop the Devils from winning. You don't exactly know what that entails, but here are some hints: a. Lynching or killing Devils will always help your team. Always interesting to see who the first person to jump on the "lynch third-parties even though the Christian wincon says absolutely nothing about lynching or preventing anybody but devils from winning" train turns out to be. Vote: Guiri(In terms of the other two Wombat votors, Dizzy and Monkey (now there's a children's comedy double act for the ages): I'm not voting HockeyMonkey because 1) her claim regarding MisterVicious, 2) she was the first person to vote Patricia, which at least seems unlikely if she's scum, and 3) given that her idea of "logic" and mine are just about diametrically opposed in every conceivable way, this is the kind of thing I expect from her. I'm hoping we arrive at the same conclusions, if we're on the same side - "same team" seems a little much to assume right about now, given some of the revalations today - but I doubt we'll do it in the same way. oh well, whatever works.) I'm already voting DizzyMrsLizzy (for the third round in a row). At this point I'm seriously baffled as to why every Christian, Pagan, Heretic, Apostle, Agnostic and Jedi Knight* in the game isn't doing the same thing. She's jumped on a town bandwagon in Sister Coyote with the bare minimum of reserve or analysis, voted to lynch a claimed third-party, and made a vote on Bill that she herself said was "for information". Not, you know, to lynch scum. *Yeah, I may have made one or two of these up. Although knowing Pleonast, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Jedi Knight claim at some point.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 15, 2013 18:46:10 GMT -5
In my defense, you both have two word names, with initials H and M, and an exclamation point at the end! That's IT. This has to stop right now. HockeyMonkey, from this day forth, you will be forever known as LacrosseChimpanzee.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 15, 2013 18:56:32 GMT -5
Yep, I'm voting a claimed 3rd party. I don't like the name of her "group" and I'm starting to think this is more like the Royal Rumble set up, where there is maybe:
Christians/Pagans have to kill all of the Devil/Heretics Christians can convert Pagans Devils can convert Heretics
I don't see these teams being aligned in any other way. Unless 3rd parties can win steal.
And Moley, if you really ARE a Christian, then we are on the same team. I'm continuing to doubt you are as well, because like you said, we're on diametrically opposite sides of practically every situation.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 15, 2013 19:01:19 GMT -5
That we all "must stop the Devils from winning." That "Lynching or killing Devils will always help (our) team"I think this is a very important distinction that sheds some light on the whole mystery of Christians, Heretics, and Pagans. Up until this point, we assumed two teams: Christians vs. Devils. And as such, lynching Devils would always help OUR team, I.E. Christians. However, with Heretics and Pagans in the mix, now lynching Devils helps THREE teams. Each Heretic, Pagan, and Christian on a Devil's bandwagon helps their own team. Heretic lynching a Devil helps Heretics, not Pagans or Christians. Pagan lynching a Devil helps Pagans, not Heretics or Christians. And Christian lynching a Devil helps Christians, not Heretics or Pagans. We may all benefit from lynching Devils, but we're NOT all on the same team. As such, I think my idea that we're in some sort of race holds more water; whoever does the most damage to Devils pulls out as the eventual victor. In addition, up until this point we've been assuming that only Devils have use for Cardinal Sin. But for all we know, Pagans/Heretics/Christians may be able to use Cardinal Sin against the other teams as well. With this information, it's plausible that Sister Coyote was misinterpreting her PM. She got an innocent read on Laurie because she was Christian. It's likely she wouldn't have gotten innocent on Heretics or Pagans. At least that's another possible theory. Ok, we have THREE (3) possible courses of action open to ourselves here. 1: We lynch third-parties. 2: We cooperate with third-parties. 3: We bicker endlessly with each other while the devils use that confusion to pick us off, one by one. Personally I'm not too keen on option three. Don't know about you guys. I'm not for a minute suggesting that we don't analyze the third parties' role in all of this. Quite the opposite - I think anybody who has any solid information that they think could be more useful than harmful should provide it. But since every Christian, Pagan and Heretic who's appeared so far has claimed that it's their job to kill devils, how's about we set about proving or disproving that point by killing us some damn devils?Fun fact: it's about six hours since I started writing that post where I voted Guiri. In that time, I've had food, watched some TV, done a few odd jobs around the place, come back, finished my post, and posted. There's about one and a half pages' worth of posts done in that time, and barely any mention of devils. Anybody else find this a cause for concern?
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 15, 2013 19:12:16 GMT -5
Yep, I'm voting a claimed 3rd party. I don't like the name of her "group" and I'm starting to think this is more like the Royal Rumble set up, where there is maybe: Christians/Pagans have to kill all of the Devil/Heretics Christians can convert Pagans Devils can convert Heretics I don't see these teams being aligned in any other way. Unless 3rd parties can win steal. You don't like the name of her group. Ok. *Takes deep breath.* 1) The win condition that I've received, that you claim to have received, says I have to KILL the devils to BEAT the devils. 2) That same win condition says nothing about me having to beat any third-party faction - heretic, pagan, or anybody else. 3) Pleonast says that nobody can be forced to switch teams against their will. Specifically: "You will not change teams without your consent." I mean, what else am I supposed to take from this? The Christian win condition directly contradicts what you've just said. The one thing that I'm stone-certain of is that the devils would love us to go after the claimed third-parties, if it means we're leaving them alone.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 15, 2013 19:21:19 GMT -5
In my defense, you both have two word names, with initials H and M, and an exclamation point at the end! That's IT. This has to stop right now. HockeyMonkey, from this day forth, you will be forever known as LacrosseChimpanzee. I was here first. You are now Exhalted Subterranian Mammal With Bad Eyesight.
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 15, 2013 19:23:04 GMT -5
Moley, Guiri hasn't voted for me. He scrutinized and poked at my claim and posts, which I believe to be a pro-town thing to do, but he hasn't voted for me.
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Post by ryjae on Feb 15, 2013 19:24:32 GMT -5
How many have claimed heretic other than wombat? Just curious, I glanced through quick and will go over later but is he the only one? Wombat had a lynch goin' on his neck yesterDay and didn't claim, that worries me as does his excuse, this same information yesterDay would have been useful look how quickly its been hashed toDay. Oh well I am still confused as we all are but I think it is clear we must kill Devils as per the PM.
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 15, 2013 19:32:59 GMT -5
First and foremost we need to remove the Devils
Pitting the rest against each other is counter-productive at this point
Vote: suburban for doing just that Vote: dizzy for the same reason- among other things
I’ll compose a proper case when I’m not at work
But I wanted my votes on record
as I said before – I don’t’ think it’s wise for us to ass-u-me that the different religions are parallel to what we ( some) believe IRL
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 15, 2013 19:35:41 GMT -5
1) The win condition that I've received, that you claim to have received, says I have to KILL the devils to BEAT the devils. 2) That same win condition says nothing about me having to beat any third-party faction - heretic, pagan, or anybody else. 3) Pleonast says that nobody can be forced to switch teams against their will. Specifically: "You will not change teams without your consent." I mean, what else am I supposed to take from this? The Christian win condition directly contradicts what you've just said. The one thing that I'm stone-certain of is that the devils would love us to go after the claimed third-parties, if it means we're leaving them alone. My WinCon DOES NOT say that I need to Kill Devils to win. The Christian Wincon says I need to STOP the Devils from Winning, and Lynching Devils "will always help your team" That DOES NOT say, Kill all of the Devils and you win. Also according to Idle's (I think, I'm remembering properly) Role PM, Lynching CHRISTIANS is a sin. There's no sin for lynching Heretics/Pagans/etc.... That leads me to believe that Lynching Christians is bad....Lynching any other group is not bad. I'm trying to figure out what I and my team needs to do to BEAT the Devils. *Speculation* If the Devils win by recruiting the most souls, and lynching a third party they can recruit hurts them, then well It may be something I want to try.
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