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Post by scáthach on Mar 1, 2013 5:25:21 GMT -5
Woo - good job guys, sorry for missing EOD but clearly ye've got things covered
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Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
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Post by Chucara on Mar 1, 2013 5:38:04 GMT -5
Moley, I know I've asked before (and apologies if I missed an answer in the EOD madness), but I'll ask one more time if you can give us any further information about Chucara. I'm definitely suspicious of the way he disappeared, and would like to believe your claim that he's not a Devil, but you both have given us very little to go on. Just to be clear here: My recent lack of participation isn't some devious scum ploy. I travelled across the globe to Hyderabad, India for work, and I will be here for the next week still. I can also tell you that Moley cannot give you more information that him vouching for me (and me vouching for him). We are not masons, we have simply found a secret handshake that we do not wish to share the mechanism of. I can't speak for Moley here, but I believe the both of us would rather get lynched than tell anyone how we know we each started as town. So unless you think we are both scum, or that one or both of us have been recruited during the game, you shouldn't vote for me or for Holey.
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Post by guiri on Mar 1, 2013 8:14:30 GMT -5
I can't speak for Moley here, but I believe the both of us would rather get lynched than tell anyone how we know we each started as town. Define "town".
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Post by wombat99 on Mar 1, 2013 8:25:46 GMT -5
I can't imagine a handshake that would be so devastating that you can't even reveal the slightest hint about it.
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Post by BillMc on Mar 1, 2013 9:01:21 GMT -5
I can also tell you that Moley cannot give you more information that him vouching for me (and me vouching for him). We are not masons, we have simply found a secret handshake that we do not wish to share the mechanism of. I can't speak for Moley here, but I believe the both of us would rather get lynched than tell anyone how we know we each started as town. So unless you think we are both scum, or that one or both of us have been recruited during the game, you shouldn't vote for me or for Holey. Hmm, a magic bag with a target on it
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Post by texcat on Mar 1, 2013 9:23:47 GMT -5
Sorry, Chucara, you did tell us earlier that you were going to be in India and I had forgotten about it. And I guess I'm getting accustomed to people not answering questions about how they know something.
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Post by BillMc on Mar 1, 2013 11:20:12 GMT -5
I can't speak for Moley here, but I believe the both of us would rather get lynched than tell anyone how we know we each started as town. Holey tried to pass off as being Christian, when in fact he was a Heretic. Your assertion that you were both "town" doesn't sit well - it may have sat better if you had said non-devil's; but as far as we can tell town=christians; and moley aint town. Moley has been making a big song and dance that it is christians+heretics+pagans vs devils -- that all non-devils win together. I'm squarely in the camp of "why have factions at all if they are all the same" - something is going on post-death with heaven and purgatory. My gut feeling at the moment is that there were probably similar numbers of christians, heretics and pagans to start with - and the one with the most in heaven vs purgatory will ultimately be the winner from the non-devil factions.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2013 11:59:34 GMT -5
Suburban? I NEVER gave misleading information about my Role? My whole Role PM is out there. I stated how I interpreted it. Beginning and end of it. 2) If you were in a group of Masons that were ALSO Doctors, you wouldn't want to keep that information as close to the chest as possible until you had to reveal? See Post 231 from yesterDay; that's what I was referring to here. I'm actually kinda tired of going into it now. I'm not the only person who isn't satisfied with the responses, or lack thereof, that you've all given to our questions. If it turns out that you are all Non-recruitable, Christian. Doctor/Masons, I will not be in the least bit surprised. Nothing that any of you have said is necessarily inconsistent with that position. But in your efforts to not be too open, to not give away secrets that you'd rather remain hidden, you've (collectively) made a few mistakes. Some of your stories aren't quite consistent with each other. Some of your statements require further explanation if you expect us to believe them. And whenever anyone has asked for clarification, or pointed out that something doesn't seem quite right, you have either ignored them or you've gone on the offensive and accused them of "trying to lynch a claimed Mason". You've just not been nearly as helpful as you could have been. And since up to now, there has been nothing to confirm any of you except for your own word, your lack of helpfulness starts taking on a darker tone. All that being said...if we get back some positive investigative results Today, then I'm prepared to let the entire matter drop.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 1, 2013 12:19:25 GMT -5
Suburban? I NEVER gave misleading information about my Role? My whole Role PM is out there. I stated how I interpreted it. Beginning and end of it. 2) If you were in a group of Masons that were ALSO Doctors, you wouldn't want to keep that information as close to the chest as possible until you had to reveal? See Post 231 from yesterDay; that's what I was referring to here. I'm actually kinda tired of going into it now. I'm not the only person who isn't satisfied with the responses, or lack thereof, that you've all given to our questions. If it turns out that you are all Non-recruitable, Christian. Doctor/Masons, I will not be in the least bit surprised. Nothing that any of you have said is necessarily inconsistent with that position. But in your efforts to not be too open, to not give away secrets that you'd rather remain hidden, you've (collectively) made a few mistakes. Some of your stories aren't quite consistent with each other. Some of your statements require further explanation if you expect us to believe them. And whenever anyone has asked for clarification, or pointed out that something doesn't seem quite right, you have either ignored them or you've gone on the offensive and accused them of "trying to lynch a claimed Mason". You've just not been nearly as helpful as you could have been. And since up to now, there has been nothing to confirm any of you except for your own word, your lack of helpfulness starts taking on a darker tone. All that being said...if we get back some positive investigative results Today, then I'm prepared to let the entire matter drop. I agree with SP and I will let the matter drop too, depending on what results we get.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 1, 2013 12:33:18 GMT -5
I can't speak for Moley here, but I believe the both of us would rather get lynched than tell anyone how we know we each started as town. Holey tried to pass off as being Christian, when in fact he was a Heretic. Your assertion that you were both "town" doesn't sit well - it may have sat better if you had said non-devil's; but as far as we can tell town=christians; and moley aint town. Moley has been making a big song and dance that it is christians+heretics+pagans vs devils -- that all non-devils win together. I'm squarely in the camp of "why have factions at all if they are all the same" - something is going on post-death with heaven and purgatory. My gut feeling at the moment is that there were probably similar numbers of christians, heretics and pagans to start with - and the one with the most in heaven vs purgatory will ultimately be the winner from the non-devil factions. Forgive me if I am wrong but then it's Holey, Wombat and Chucara that are heretics by your reckoning.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Mar 1, 2013 14:12:11 GMT -5
Holey tried to pass off as being Christian, when in fact he was a Heretic. Your assertion that you were both "town" doesn't sit well - it may have sat better if you had said non-devil's; but as far as we can tell town=christians; and moley aint town. Moley has been making a big song and dance that it is christians+heretics+pagans vs devils -- that all non-devils win together. I'm squarely in the camp of "why have factions at all if they are all the same" - something is going on post-death with heaven and purgatory. My gut feeling at the moment is that there were probably similar numbers of christians, heretics and pagans to start with - and the one with the most in heaven vs purgatory will ultimately be the winner from the non-devil factions. Forgive me if I am wrong but then it's Holey, Wombat and Chucara that are heretics by your reckoning. I have absolutely no idea what Chucara's alignment was when he started the game. I just know that it wasn't devil. I think it'll clarify things there if everybody stops talking about a "magic bag". That implies that we're withholding information under threat of "you won't find this out if you lynch us". Actually you won't find it out at all. Neither of us will reveal that information while we're still in this game. It won't help the town and it won't prove that we aren't both lying. Nor will it prove that either of us hasn't been recruited - and I can't guarantee that Chucara is still not a devil, although I can say he didn't start the game that way. He can confirm exactly the same information about me. As to his alignment, I have zero information about whether he's a Christian, Heretic, Pagan, or Jedi Knight. I don't really care. I just know he didn't start the game as a devil. Ah, my apologies, you did reply to me in the next post. Sorry, didn't preview or refresh before posting. 1) My entire reason for FoS'ing you is dependant on CIAS flipping devil, and 2) My main objection to your vote isn't the reasoning, but the timing. You don't mention any suspicions of me until the moment that my chief devil suspect is tied for the lynch vote with me, and then you place a vote that puts me in the lead? I'd say my suspicions, again assuming CIAS flips devil, are neither unfounded nor unreasonable. I understand your point, but it just seems like you're not understanding mine. You lied, basically (well, as I see it).... so, why wouldn't I find you suspicious/vote for you? Yeah, I haven't been on much or active since you said you were Heretic----that's why I haven't had the time to voice my stronger suspicions of you. But no matter....I have no idea what CIAS is. I'd be more than happy to vote for him provided I find him more suspicious than certain others at the time. On the chance he does flip Devil, though...it's dangerous and foolish thinking to automatically assume someone else MUST be a recruit. As I say (sarcastically) above, why not go after those you think are DEFINITELY DEVILS first before we start witch hunting about who could be recruited or not? I haven't been recruited. Of course, that's just what I'd say either way....as would ANYONE....so in my opinion, it's a moot point and null case and FOCUSING ON SURE DEVILS should be the first priority. I'm absolutely not assuming that either CIAS or you is a devil. Like I said, As for my deceiving town, well, I never wanted anybody to claim Heretic; given that our win conditions are, at least while living, identical to those of the Christians, why put a target on our backs like that? The moment Lightfoot claimed, she got shot. I still don't know if that's going to happen to me tonight. Can you seriously tell me that I'm wrong for not claiming, when exactly what I was afraid of happening DID happen? I know the game isn't technically over for me when I'm dead, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try and stop myself from getting that way. I haven't seen any evidence that I can "beat the devils" as a corpse yet. Can I make the following points clear for anybody who wants them: - I am not and never have claimed that Heretics, Pagans and Christians all win together after death. I have no idea where this idea came from. I suspect that our win conditions differ once we die, although whether we start competing with each other after death or not is an open question. Since Ginger has confirmed that two people of different alignments are in heaven, I will maintain that it makes most sense for us all to have to end up there - the difference being how we do it. But that's just a theory. - I AM claiming that while living, Pagans, Christians and Heretics pose no threat to each others' win conditions. Provided we beat the devils, any of those groups may win, or all of them. THIS IS PROVEN FACT. And if you don't understand that by now, then seriously, you're evidently even more clueless in this game than I am. Short version: our win conditions, ALL of them if the claims are to be believed, make no mention of any threat other than the Devils. Ergo, if one or more factions were actually lying about this and their goal was to win-steal, this game would be absolutely and blatantly unfair to the other factions. Doesn't matter what the "hidden" wincons are, doesn't matter what happens after death. I'm talking about what we know, now, while living. Or put it this way. Do you think that Pleonast would make a game where the Christians could kill off every devil and then lose to a faction that they didn't even know existed? Because that's the assumption you're making IF you assume that either "third-party" group (I really should stop calling us that) is win-stealing. And BillMC, what's "town" in this game? To me it seems like we have three cooperating factions with identical win conditions, while living, that may become competitive after death. I'm not going to worry about this while I'm still alive. It's completely redundant to say that I'm not "town". I'm a member of a faction that poses zero threat to you, as evidenced by my immediate unvote of Wombat when she soft-claimed Heretic on Day Two. I've been completely honest about my investigation results, and one of those results has at least helped lynch a devil. I've been totally upfront about my suspicions and how I'm interpriting the game as a whole. To say " Moley lied about one thing - he may be lying about others" is just lazy thinking unless you're prepared to justify it with why I'd lie. Frexample, there's a lot of very obvious reasons why I'd lie about being a Heretic if I'm not a devil. Heck, I don't see any obvious reason why I WOULDN'T lie about that. I mean, Colby, a claimed vig, killed the only person who at that point had given us any kind of lead on any confirmed devil, just because she claimed third-party. Exactly as I predicted would happen on Day Three, by the way. Again - I know this game doesn't end when you die, but that doesn't mean I fancy a bullet to the brain.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 1, 2013 14:36:47 GMT -5
In my Pm it mentions Christians and Devils, I am a Christian and I have to get rid of Devils or some such, it doesn't mention Pagans or Heretics. I was just asking BillMc if Chucara was a heretic too according to his thought process. To mine too actually as you have claimed heretic (I am not saying this is bad) and you could handshake with Chucara. It just makes sense to me. Disclaimer: I am in no way saying this is a bad thing.
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Post by wombat99 on Mar 1, 2013 14:42:32 GMT -5
For the record, I have no idea what this handshake business is all about and I doubt that it is related to the Heretic alignment.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 1, 2013 14:45:08 GMT -5
For the record, I have no idea what this handshake business is all about and I doubt that it is related to the Heretic alignment. So you were a lost and lonely sole or did you know that there were more heretics out there?
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 1, 2013 14:45:54 GMT -5
NETA you aren't really a fish
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Post by wombat99 on Mar 1, 2013 14:49:58 GMT -5
For the record, I have no idea what this handshake business is all about and I doubt that it is related to the Heretic alignment. So you were a lost and lonely sole or did you know that there were more heretics out there? I assumed there had to be more than one since my PM refers to my "team", but I have no other clue as to how many Heretics exist.
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Post by wombat99 on Mar 1, 2013 14:51:04 GMT -5
NETA you aren't really a fish Or a shoe.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 1, 2013 14:57:27 GMT -5
NETA you aren't really a fish Or a shoe. Wine over keyboard, that was funny
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 1, 2013 14:58:59 GMT -5
So you were a lost and lonely sole or did you know that there were more heretics out there? I assumed there had to be more than one since my PM refers to my "team", but I have no other clue as to how many Heretics exist. Fair enough, team tends to refer to more than one. No other clues though?
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Post by wombat99 on Mar 1, 2013 15:01:04 GMT -5
I assumed there had to be more than one since my PM refers to my "team", but I have no other clue as to how many Heretics exist. Fair enough, team tends to refer to more than one. No other clues though? No, nothing to indicate other Heretics' existence.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Mar 1, 2013 15:23:39 GMT -5
Fair enough, team tends to refer to more than one. No other clues though? No, nothing to indicate other Heretics' existence. You guys should probably be asking me this, considering I'm the one whose alignment seems to be in doubt right now. I will confirm that what Wombat has said reflects my own role PM as well though.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2013 15:25:59 GMT -5
Can I make the following points clear for anybody who wants them: - I AM claiming that while living, Pagans, Christians and Heretics pose no threat to each others' win conditions. Provided we beat the devils, any of those groups may win, or all of them. THIS IS PROVEN FACT. And if you don't understand that by now, then seriously, you're evidently even more clueless in this game than I am. Short version: our win conditions, ALL of them if the claims are to be believed, make no mention of any threat other than the Devils. Ergo, if one or more factions were actually lying about this and their goal was to win-steal, this game would be absolutely and blatantly unfair to the other factions. Doesn't matter what the "hidden" wincons are, doesn't matter what happens after death. I'm talking about what we know, now, while living. I don't want to bust up a really good rant, but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out to you that it's not PROVEN FACT. Since the game is still running, that means nobody has won, so we don't know FOR A FACT what the win conditions are. And you might want to stop to consider that there may be some who think that the Pagan and/or Heretic PMs that have been presented to us may have been modified from their original form. At this point, all we have is your word (and wombat's) that the Heretics have the same "Victory Conditions" as the Christians. Yes, you say that your PM mentions only the Devils, but we don't know that. It's not PROVEN FACT. Heck, I voted for all three claimed Masons yesterDay, in part because they could offer nothing but their own word to prove their claims. Can you offer anything more than they did?
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Post by Pleonast on Mar 1, 2013 15:26:57 GMT -5
Hey, it's Day Six now!
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