|
Post by guiri on Apr 26, 2013 18:22:10 GMT -5
A 7-vs-17 would be almost impossible for town in a standard mafia setup; it would take <i>203</i> vanilla Villagers to achieve a 50% win rate against 7 Witches! Sounds like a game Pizzaguy wouldn't run. [quote source="/post/106758/thread" timestamp="1366938021" author=" peekercpa"]their are ten "basic villagers". i kind of read that as nillers. so are you suggesting that even "basic villagers" have powers? So that means you are either a Power Town role, or a Witch...[/quote]His initial reaction to Pleo's claim looked like the common townie reaction to an outed power role, especially if he hadn't read the rules, but unless he hasn't read his role PM, he's not a basic villager. Peeker, are you a member of a group of players who know each other's identify and alignment, maybe something like a masonry? Oh my god, can we get a doctor on Peeker? And can townies read over the rules thread more closely please? This is an interesting comment. You are implicitly excluding <b>peeker</b> from the group "townies". Why? Funny, I thought the request for doc protection was an implicit assumption that Peeker was a townie! Yipes. I'm here going to read my pm now How long is your PM? /oog The new board version looks nice but is sucky to use, let's see if the nested quotes work...
|
|
|
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Apr 26, 2013 19:34:10 GMT -5
A 7-vs-17 would be almost impossible for town in a standard mafia setup; it would take <i>203</i> vanilla Villagers to achieve a 50% win rate against 7 Witches! Sounds like a game Pizzaguy wouldn't run. His initial reaction to Pleo's claim looked like the common townie reaction to an outed power role, especially if he hadn't read the rules, but unless he hasn't read his role PM, he's not a basic villager. Here's the thing. To assume he's a Basic Townie: - He didn't read the rules that had it all spelled out.... - He didn't read MY post explaining to him what Pleo meant by he is from the expansion set. I posted 12 roles with their powers.....Even with the other two asideIt was kind of obvious from there that everyone had a power regardless of whether they were a Vanilla, Holy, or Witch.
|
|
|
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Apr 26, 2013 19:36:02 GMT -5
My post is on Pg 2, listing all of the possible roles Pleo is claiming he is one of.
|
|
|
Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 26, 2013 19:46:23 GMT -5
Sorry, all, been busy with a week long contest on FB. I WILL catch up tonight.
|
|
|
Post by peekercpa on Apr 26, 2013 20:44:03 GMT -5
i skimmed to this point. ok, folks i will catch up tomorrow. one of my most telling "scum" tells is when someone shuts down after getting a little attention. i do not want that to bite me in the ass. but i had a tough and long day at work. so if you want to use that against me, meh. i will posit about how much i want to reveal. because although, it might make sense short term for me i need to extrapolate the long term consequences for "town".
|
|
|
Post by crys on Apr 26, 2013 21:37:04 GMT -5
Sounds like a game Pizzaguy wouldn't run. His initial reaction to Pleo's claim looked like the common townie reaction to an outed power role, especially if he hadn't read the rules, but unless he hasn't read his role PM, he's not a basic villager. Here's the thing. To assume he's a Basic Townie: - He didn't read the rules that had it all spelled out.... - He didn't read MY post explaining to him what Pleo meant by he is from the expansion set. I posted 12 roles with their powers.....Even with the other two asideIt was kind of obvious from there that everyone had a power regardless of whether they were a Vanilla, Holy, or Witch. Lol my pm wasn't super long, however trying to digest all the information off of my mobile wasn't gelling so well with my foggy pain killer head lol. I had surgery Tues on my left wrist so I did vanish for a bit lol. I am going to try and absorb this now.
|
|
|
Post by crys on Apr 26, 2013 21:37:24 GMT -5
Sounds like a game Pizzaguy wouldn't run. His initial reaction to Pleo's claim looked like the common townie reaction to an outed power role, especially if he hadn't read the rules, but unless he hasn't read his role PM, he's not a basic villager. Here's the thing. To assume he's a Basic Townie: - He didn't read the rules that had it all spelled out.... - He didn't read MY post explaining to him what Pleo meant by he is from the expansion set. I posted 12 roles with their powers.....Even with the other two asideIt was kind of obvious from there that everyone had a power regardless of whether they were a Vanilla, Holy, or Witch. Lol my pm wasn't super long, however trying to digest all the information off of my mobile wasn't gelling so well with my foggy pain killer head lol. I had surgery Tues on my left wrist so I did vanish for a bit lol. I am going to try and absorb this now.
|
|
|
Post by crys on Apr 26, 2013 21:37:55 GMT -5
oh christ sorry for the double post.
|
|
|
Post by crys on Apr 26, 2013 21:57:43 GMT -5
For the record I am not really pleased with the set up on my desktop I need to reread the rules at least 2 more times so I make sure I have it all down pat before I go running around willy nilly accusing peeps of stuff. The pain pills reek havoc with my brain and I will be rereading the rules first thing in the morning when my head is still clear and hasn't been undone with hydrocodone lol. This game is looking like it may prove to be very interesting and a lot of fun once I have the rules and the way the game works down pat. See you all tomorrow
|
|
Colby11
Administrator
Creator of Hell's Kitchen Mafia
Posts: 1,193
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Colby11 on Apr 27, 2013 0:46:53 GMT -5
Right now, if Peeker is not a regular town player, it definitely paints a target on him.
If we kill him now, what information will we have? It might be better if we let him live.
If he is a Elder Witch, he will live.
If he is either a Junior Witch or Village Spy, he might die
If he is a Holy Character, he will die (I say thus because if he isn't one of the above, the Witches know this)
|
|
|
Post by gnarlycharlie on Apr 27, 2013 7:59:18 GMT -5
it really looks like peeks isn't a basic villager. i'm not sure whether he should claim or not. that means i have to re-read the rules AGAIN so i can make a more informed opinion.
as for sai's comment about peeker reading the rules, i agree that he did think peeks is town.
|
|
|
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Apr 27, 2013 8:54:56 GMT -5
Interesting point Gnarly, and whoever first mentioned it....Why would Sai automatically think that Peeks is Town....
|
|
|
Post by BillMc on Apr 27, 2013 9:30:39 GMT -5
Bleh - seems the proboards upgrade turned off email notification of pm's - so just seen my pm.
Off to read the rules and catch up on the thread.
|
|
|
Post by texcat on Apr 27, 2013 12:19:04 GMT -5
Day ends tomorrow evening and I don't think we're close to the 13 votes needed to lynch.
Could we have votals please?
|
|
|
Post by Sai on Apr 27, 2013 12:56:28 GMT -5
Interesting point Gnarly, and whoever first mentioned it....Why would Sai automatically think that Peeks is Town.... Peeker's probably town, since his posts read as stream-of-consciousness. If his posts are him writing out his train of thought, then the way that he is thinking about the game is townie. @ dizzymrslizzy - How do you read peeker's stream-of-thought posts as coming from scum? It shouldn't be an 'interesting point' as it's not an 'assumption' that he's town, it's a read - he's my first read this game, and I explicitly posted that I thought he was town and why. Everyone else discussing Peeker has been basically saying that he's not a basic villager and therefore super suspicious. While I completely agree with Pleo that Peeker needs to make a claim because the mafia currently have more information about Peeker's role than we do, literally no one else has actually posted a read on Peeker. This actually frustrates me a little bit, especially since I've asked people to post their reads on him and people instead keep posting the exact same information that we already have.
|
|
|
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 27, 2013 14:55:27 GMT -5
I've stated my thoughts on peeker: Pleo has this metagame legacy for the past year(?) or so where he'll make a full claim out of the gate if he is vanilla, and says that he will always do so. So when he doesn't make a full claim out of the gate, it implies that he's not vanilla. I believe that is the target that that peeker thinks Pleo may have painted, but it remains to be seen if peeker will acknowledge any of the evidence that there are no vanilla roles ergo the usual knee-jerk reaction to Pleo's Day 1 play doesn't really work. Everyone's wrong! Mwuahaha! The follow-up comment was tongue and cheek assumption that Pleo would be the one to say that I've over-simplified why he does what he does. I know that Peeker knows what and why Pleo says he does what he does. I just don't think peeker is yet grokking that this is a no-vanilla game. And I think he's doing so because many of us are conditioned to be good little townies and not show any tells as to whether we're vanilla or not. At least not without taking us out to a nice dinner first. But to elaborate, I think it is tough to make a call between whether what Peeker said was a non-basic-townie tell or him not realizing that he was a basic townie because his role came with a power. As I mention above, I think both many town AND scum have picked up on the strategy of Vanillas in the unknown pool as possible power roles is pro town. (I can elaborate on this further if you don't know what I'm talking about). Pleo's strategy, when he is indeed Vanilla and claims early...causes friction with this strategy, and metagaming about what Pleo may or may not be doing is also a common early topic of conversation. So I basically see Peeker as a big fat null tell right now.
|
|
|
Post by sario on Apr 27, 2013 14:59:02 GMT -5
Has anyone heard anything from Wombat or Hal Briston? They're on the player list but haven't posted yet. ETA Day ends tomorrow evening and I don't think we're close to the 13 votes needed to lynch. Could we have votals please?By my (unofficial) count: 3 Votes: peeker (dizzymrslizzy, pleonast, texcat) 1 Vote: Hal Briston (peeker), sario (texcat)
|
|
|
Post by BillMc on Apr 27, 2013 15:28:22 GMT -5
Still trying to get my head around the rules and the possible interaction between the different roles.
I agree with the previous points made about the bishop and the witches/spies. There is also the interaction between the innkeeper, inquisitor and investigator - this seems a pseudo masonary as the one or more of those people could be witches.
So 7 out of these 20 roles will be held by witches: Survivalist, Judge, Dirty Old Bastard, Benevolent Old Dame, Inquisitor Gambler, Recluse, Gravedigger, Fanatic, Loose Cannon Hunter, Magician, Investigator, Innkeeper, Entertainer Zealot, Summoner, Assassin, Oracle, Wizard
That is potentially a very powerful scum team - it appears the town will need a lot of help from the angels protection.
Given the power of the archangel cards - it seems almost beneficial to mislynch on D1 to guarantee town at least one card, and probably the second card from the witches night kill. If we successful lynch a witch today, the witches will have the archangel card. The more I think about it, the more complex the game appears to be.
|
|
|
Post by BillMc on Apr 27, 2013 15:31:30 GMT -5
wombat seems to have gone mia from another game on giraffe.
with the proboards upgrade disabling email notification by default, it's possible hal doesn't know the game has started and doesn't check the board very often (and it's been a long time since folk signed up)
The business with the archangel cards also makes a "lynch the lurker" strategy problematic - if we lynch a D1 lurker, then the lurker will gain the card and it will be effectively out of play.
|
|
|
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Apr 27, 2013 16:16:20 GMT -5
Sai, I don't have a read on Peekers either way. I have a hard time reading Peekers, because of his stream of thought style. One time he was a Third Party Win stealer, and one time he was Pseudo Town. So I'm focusing more on the meat of his dictation rather than the flowery words around it. KWIM?
Same with Pleo. Pleo is a very good player, he likes to throw wine in every direction so you won't know until he flips upon death what he really was.
|
|
|
Post by JustBeingGinger on Apr 27, 2013 17:20:31 GMT -5
I am not so on the Peeker lynch train, I am also confused by the rules and when I started the game, I as well did not think there were any nillers in this game. I assumed that everyone had a role, and I am still not sure of this. I know there are basic villagers, but I am not sure if they have a role or not. If this paints a target on me as being not niller, I think the majority of people in this game are not niller... It is a typical game so far, Peeker and Pleo getting the crowd talking...
Not sure who to vote for right now.
Also, this might be a stupid question, but this is not pro-boards anymore correct? I have proboards on my phone and cannot access this forum anymore. I will need to be mobile with this game during the weekdays.
|
|
|
Post by sario on Apr 27, 2013 17:40:05 GMT -5
Ginger make sure your proboard app is up to date then maybe try removing Idle Mafia and putting it back.
|
|
|
Post by crys on Apr 27, 2013 19:35:48 GMT -5
I am not so on the Peeker lynch train, I am also confused by the rules and when I started the game, I as well did not think there were any nillers in this game. I assumed that everyone had a role, and I am still not sure of this. I know there are basic villagers, but I am not sure if they have a role or not. If this paints a target on me as being not niller, I think the majority of people in this game are not niller... It is a typical game so far, Peeker and Pleo getting the crowd talking... Not sure who to vote for right now. Also, this might be a stupid question, but this is not pro-boards anymore correct? I have proboards on my phone and cannot access this forum anymore. I will need to be mobile with this game during the weekdays. Make sure you have the most updated version of the app ginger and then it should work. Mine does.
|
|
|
Post by crys on Apr 27, 2013 19:53:56 GMT -5
Ugh. I hate day one. It is always the hardest for me by far and I never know who is what, and with this rule set I don't know which way is even up lol. I don't see the peekers thing. He is just being peekers and doing what he does trying to get the conversation rolling.
I also agree that lynching a lurker at any point could be really bad for town in this game. I think this encourages players to play and all in all we should have some good participation I would hope.
|
|
|
Post by crys on Apr 27, 2013 22:46:46 GMT -5
Pleo and Peeks are being themselves atm, so I am going to not drink that wine. I have reread this thread like 5 times. The only thing I keep coming up with is where Sai basically said that peeks should lie about his role after making a claim.
The only thing I see this doing is causing confusion etc where none needs to be. Why would we want him to claim? That would paint even larger target on his back. I see this line of conversation as someone that is indeed fishing for information.
Vote sai
|
|
|
Post by Sai on Apr 27, 2013 23:15:35 GMT -5
Pleo and Peeks are being themselves atm, so I am going to not drink that wine. I have reread this thread like 5 times. The only thing I keep coming up with is where Sai basically said that peeks should lie about his role after making a claim. The only thing I see this doing is causing confusion etc where none needs to be. Why would we want him to claim? That would paint even larger target on his back. I see this line of conversation as someone that is indeed fishing for information. Vote sai Pleo already explained it, but I will restate it - Peeker is almost certainly not Basic Town. This means he is a Witch of some sort, a Village Spy, or a Holy Villager. The Witches know who is a Spy/Other Witch. Therefore, they already know what category Peeker is. The Town does not know this same information. This means that it does not help the Witches for Peeker to claim his category, but it does help the Town. So yes, I suppose I am fishing for information, but this is information that the Witches already have but the town does not. This really shouldn't be hard to understand, since Pleo spelled it out explicitly in multiple posts.
|
|
|
Post by Sai on Apr 27, 2013 23:21:36 GMT -5
As far as the holy role thing goes - the Town doesn't need to know which of the two roles within each category Peeker is if that is, in fact, his role. They need to know for the purposes of CCing. If Peeker is the Bishop or the Priest, the counterpart already knows this and thus won't need to CC his claim. If the actual lying is the bit that bothers you, you can have him claim to be part of one PAIR if he's holy or as a holy player from one SET or whatever. It's all semantics - the point is just that if he is Priest or Bishop, it is bad for the Town for him to claim that explicitly.
Again, this isn't rocket science. If you truly believe that the Town shouldn't know the information that the Witches already have or that the Witches should get information that the Town already has, we have a whole 'nother set of problems.
|
|
|
Post by Sai on Apr 27, 2013 23:42:38 GMT -5
Anyways, we need a legit lynch going. Peeker does need to claim and I'll switch to him if he doesn't. As far as who I think is mafia, I strongly suspect Silverjan on account of all of her posts being completely devoid of original speculation or anything remotely original/risky. First few posts are content free, so I'll start where there should be opinions: That's what I thought too. I am kind of with Peeks here, this set up is a bit confusing but we shouldn't really go too far wrong if we hunt scum, or witches in this case. As to Pleo, I have seen him claim very early in the last few games and he has been both Town and Scum and although I don't think it should be totally dismissed I don't think it tells us that much. He didn't post a full claim after all, did he? First point isn't an opinion, it's saying we should try to hunt scum. Okay. Second point confirms that Pleo claims early, which is apparently just true and not analysis. The line "although I don't think it should be totally dismissed I don't think it tells us that much" is one of the waffle-iest things I've ever read, and I read political speeches. First point is just true; obviously if Peeker's a witch he can lie. Again, no analysis. Second point is just false; as Pleo took the time to spell out over multiple posts, it literally gives the Witches no new information whatsoever for Peeker to claim his category. Is that a witches tell, voting in turquoise? Peeks hasn't claimed anything and I am not too happy that you think he should. I think he is just as screwed up about the rule as I am. Here Silver responds with 0 analysis on someone actually giving an original read. Obviously it's D1 so the scumtells and towntells aren't going to be perfect, but texcat is actually looking for something and silverjan is ignoring it. Instead, silver repeats that we should not give Town the same information that the Witches already have. And, of course - So you are telling a Townie to lie, way to go, I am not with you on this one. One of two things is wrong here - either silver's ignoring the actual reasoning behind the claim style I suggested (which I'll repeat below) because she thinks that peeker shouldn't be put in a position where he can be CCed, or silver's ignoring the reasoning behind the claim style because of the semantics of the claim in the original suggestion. To repeat the reasoning behind the original suggestion one more time: If Peeker claims Holy, there cannot be a CC. If Peeker claims Holy + which set (Bishop/Nun or Priest/Acolyte) then there can be a CC. However, there is no reason for Peeker to actually claim Bishop or Priest because the Nun or Acolyte respectively already know the identity of that role and we would want THEM to be the ones to counterclaim over the more valuable Holy roles - the ones that actually find Witches.
|
|
|
Post by Sai on Apr 27, 2013 23:43:12 GMT -5
Vote: Silverjan
|
|
|
Post by Silver Jan on Apr 28, 2013 1:25:09 GMT -5
OMG! Not again. Sai it's freaking D1 and all you have done is tell Peeker to lie. It's like your the only one who knows all the flaming rules and is the only one to have an original thought. I should have voted for you when I first saw your post. HOW do you know Peeks isn't a basic townie? Because if it's from the way he has posted well then you are really good. Forcing someone to claim on D1 is so not good.
Vote Sai
|
|