Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Post by Meeko on Jul 1, 2013 0:46:26 GMT -5
Good old fashioned Day 1 antics. Glad to be back in a game where I have my bearings, or at least think I have them. Casting votes for reaction strikes me as null. So does multi-voting when there is no multi-voting. Meeko worrying out loud about stuff that doesn't come to mind for many others strikes me as a null tell. Accusing Guiri of being opportunistic might not be a null tell and may betray a bit of P.I.S. but it is too early to tell. Glad to know I remain consistent.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 1:44:42 GMT -5
Meeko, you have already stated that anti-town and pro-scum are not the same thing. (Reply 13)
You believe multi-voting to be anti-town, a premise I disagree with, but nonetheless if that's your sole reason for voting for guiri, then no, that is not a "good enough" reason on day one. Voting without a reason would be a better reason, because then you're being honest about the fact that you have no real reason to vote. Then it's a Day One no-reason vote, which is how we get the ball rolling. Pretending you have reasons is putting an air of seriousness on your vote when none is warranted.
If you seriously think Guiri's nonvalid multivote is indicative of scum, by all means explain how and why scum would behave that way.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 1:46:24 GMT -5
Mostly why. I get the how, I just don't see the why. Seems to serve no purpose except to put attention on oneself at a time when people are going to be really reaching for excuses to vote people.
A scum strategy of some dubiousness indeed.
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Post by Jaade on Jul 1, 2013 2:38:17 GMT -5
Good old fashioned Day 1 antics. Glad to be back in a game where I have my bearings, or at least think I have them. Casting votes for reaction strikes me as null. So does multi-voting when there is no multi-voting. Meeko worrying out loud about stuff that doesn't come to mind for many others strikes me as a null tell. Accusing Guiri of being opportunistic might not be a null tell and may betray a bit of P.I.S. but it is too early to tell. I don't really care for people voting "just" to get reactions, at least early on Day 1. In my limited experience, I have not found it to give any really useful information. I've seen scum use it to hide a one-off vote they were going to "come back and change later, probably".
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Post by CatInASuit on Jul 1, 2013 3:22:38 GMT -5
Day 1 Vote Count:guiri (2): colby ( #2), dizzymrslizzy (#19), meeko (#26) Suburban Plankton (1): guiri (#1) jaade (1): texcat (#16) dizzymrslizzy(0): texcat ( #5-#16) With these votes, guiri will be lynched PS: to make it easier, you can use the vote/unvote buttons in the reply and quick reply toolbars. - Vote - Unvote
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
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Post by Meeko on Jul 1, 2013 8:33:19 GMT -5
Meeko, you have already stated that anti-town and pro-scum are not the same thing. (Reply 13) snip If you seriously think Guiri's nonvalid multivote is indicative of scum, by all means explain how and why scum would behave that way. Should town not vote for both anti-town and pro-scum players? What would you like for me to explain?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 1, 2013 9:42:27 GMT -5
Still (or is that again) present.
Vote: guiri
Because it makes as much sense as anything else that's gone on so far.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 1, 2013 9:47:51 GMT -5
Is it just me, or are the Post numbers screwed up? I see my last post as being labeled "Reply #21", but it's the 36th (by my count) post in the thread. The first post on page 2 is labeled "Reply #15", and none of the posts on Page 1 have Post #s any more.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 1, 2013 9:53:42 GMT -5
Still (or is that again) present. Vote: guiriBecause it makes as much sense as anything else that's gone on so far. i OTOH have trouble reconciling the sharp townie guiri who looks for inconsistencies and slips with the one who thought he could multi-vote. Vote: guiri
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 10:29:34 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jul 1, 2013 10:29:34 GMT -5
First things first, I di d n ot for get to reve al so mething about my role. I didn't make it clear did I? This is not a multi-vote game. What? No take-backs. Vote: Vote GuiriThis is how it's done, Guiri. Unvote: Unvote GuiriNow, time to play. The power of Gaudere's law is mighty indeed. To answer a N0 question, yes, I only got one PM this time. Guiri, why all the votes? Don't you think 4 scum with 16 players would be a bit much? No, 7 scum out of 24 players is a bit much. 4 out of 16 is the starting point, with adjustments based on the particular set up. Good old fashioned Day 1 antics. Glad to be back in a game where I have my bearings, or at least think I have them. Casting votes for reaction strikes me as null. So does multi-voting when there is no multi-voting. Meeko worrying out loud about stuff that doesn't come to mind for many others strikes me as a null tell. To be fair to guiri, we didn't have "no multi-voting" when they made their votes, as it hadn't been specified. Still (or is that again) present. Vote: guiriBecause it makes as much sense as anything else that's gone on so far. vote Suburban Plankton for opportunistic voting and trying to push momentum onto some weak cases. i OTOH have trouble reconciling the sharp townie guiri who looks for inconsistencies and slips with the one who thought he could multi-vote. Vote: guiriReally? A player reads the rules and makes the astute observation that multi-votes are not explicitly disallowed and takes advantage of that knowledge of the rules and you make the above statement? That's rather contradictory and/or self-serving of you. If I had more than one vote, you'd be the second.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 10:47:50 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Jul 1, 2013 10:47:50 GMT -5
I see post numbers OK on the first page, but none at all on the second page.
Pleo, I'm not sure that the super secret breadcrumb code actually reveals anything about your role.
Unvote: Jaade
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 10:53:56 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 1, 2013 10:53:56 GMT -5
First things first, I di d n ot for get to reve al so mething about my role. Ah, so you're claiming "tddogasmar". Good to know. Define "opportunistic". Because I don't think that word means what you think it means...or at least, that it's being misused here. I voted for guiri for pretty much the same reason he voted for me - which is to say: none at all.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 10:57:34 GMT -5
Post by Mahaloth on Jul 1, 2013 10:57:34 GMT -5
Pleo, tddngasmar?
Hmmm....
Gastards?
Standards?
I don't get it.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 11:49:17 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jul 1, 2013 11:49:17 GMT -5
I see post numbers OK on the first page, but none at all on the second page. Pleo, I'm not sure that the super secret breadcrumb code actually reveals anything about your role. I think the reply-number code is assuming 15 posts per page instead of 30?I haven't claimed to have actually revealed anything. I simply said I did not forget. Define "opportunistic". Because I don't think that word means what you think it means...or at least, that it's being misused here. I voted for guiri for pretty much the same reason he voted for me - which is to say: none at all. As I said when I voted: "for opportunistic voting and trying to push momentum onto some weak cases". The difference between your vote and guiri's is that your vote is not a one-off. It is a weak vote on a player who already has some weak votes. The context is different, even if the reasoning is as poor.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 12:24:00 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 12:24:00 GMT -5
Meeko, you have already stated that anti-town and pro-scum are not the same thing. (Reply 13) snip If you seriously think Guiri's nonvalid multivote is indicative of scum, by all means explain how and why scum would behave that way. Should town not vote for both anti-town and pro-scum players? What would you like for me to explain? Town should vote for pro-scum players. Townies behave in anti-town fashion constantly. Voting for "anti-town" play is one way they are anti-town. Townies behaving badly are still not scumbags. Anti-town play should be identified as such, but if you're going to vote someone, it should be for pro-scum reasons. We don't win by lynching all the bad townies. We win by lynching all the good scumbags. I believe my question stands on its own merit. What's there to not understand about the question? Explain why Guiri's behavior was *pro-scum*. It's a simple question doctor. Would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs? I feel a bit of deja vu here. Haven't we already gone over this somewhere? Or has it been that long that we need to repeat the material again?
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 12:31:45 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 12:31:45 GMT -5
And I still fail to comprehend what exactly was so anti-town about multivoting.
I'm going to need that explained to me very carefully, as if I were a child. Because I don't begin to accept the concept at all. For one, it's not valid in this game anyway, which implies guiri was so bullish to play that he didn't read the rules, it doesn't imply to me one way or another about his alignment except that in my experience, people making foolish and easily pointed out mistakes are town.
Example: "What do you mean X said that? Clearly Y said that. Look at the post in question!"
It's not a big scary scum plot to misremember something or make an error. Is being error-prone a scumtell? I guess I forgot that townies, simply by virtue of being townie, suddenly lose susceptibility to human mistakes.
And secondly, in games where we can multi-vote, townies do multi-vote. How is it anti-town then to use the mechanics allowed by the game host?
I am utterly befuddled by the thought process, if any, which went into Meeko's statements. I'm aware that Meeko often acts on his own, without anything resembling a plan per se, but I still believe that people can easily explain their thoughts when asked, if they are town, because it's as simple a matter of just saying what you truthfully were thinking.
If you can't, then you get the hairy eyeball.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 12:53:45 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 1, 2013 12:53:45 GMT -5
And I still fail to comprehend what exactly was so anti-town about multivoting. I'm going to need that explained to me very carefully, as if I were a child. 'Cause it's haaaard!!!!! I think that's pretty much it. Personally, I don't think multi-voting is intrinsically better or worse that single-voting. It's just one more mechanic that the mod may or may not choose to involve. Since it's a mod decision, it cannot be pro- or anti- Town (or pro- or anti- Scum). It just is, or is not. And on that note, Unvote: guiri Vote: MeekoFor pointing out that multi-voting is not pro-Scum, but then voting based on that reasoning anyway.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 13:07:45 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 13:07:45 GMT -5
Pleo, tddngasmar? Hmmm.... Gastards? Standards? I don't get it. Woodpecker, obviously.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 13:09:20 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 13:09:20 GMT -5
The woodpecker pecked out a little round hole And made him a house in the telephone pole
Seriously, make it harder.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 13:17:24 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 13:17:24 GMT -5
After some careful consideration, I'm finding myself in agreement with Pleonast.
Vote: Gnarlycharlie
Opportunistic and logically dubious.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 13:32:10 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 1, 2013 13:32:10 GMT -5
After some careful consideration, I'm finding myself in agreement with Pleonast. Vote: GnarlycharlieOpportunistic and logically dubious. No, no, no. You've got it wrong. I'm the one that was "opportunistic". Gnarlycharlie was "contradictory and/or self-serving"
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 13:48:23 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 13:48:23 GMT -5
I don't deny that you may have been opportunistic, in Pleo's words. But I felt the same way about gnarly, and since that scab hasn't been picked at yet, I felt obliged to offer my helpful fingernail.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 13:57:47 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 13:57:47 GMT -5
By the way, I feel obligated to point out that I happen to be the proud owner of a magnificent tddngasmar.
Strong and beautiful. Breathtaking, really.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 14:40:09 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Jul 1, 2013 14:40:09 GMT -5
I think the reply-number code is assuming 15 posts per page instead of 30? D'oh. Should be fixed now.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 17:07:59 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Jul 1, 2013 17:07:59 GMT -5
Board just ate my post. Briefly: 1. I can see people disliking my early baseless votes but you'll find it's something I regularly do to get the ball rolling. I don't get the hate for the multivote though 2. Jaade, if early baseless votes are also a good way to catch scum, why discourage them? If someone places an early vote and goes the whole Day without moving it or giving reasons why it's the best vote compared to all other candidates, they deserve suspicion 3. Suburban, that was opportunistic. The reasoning could be applied to any player but you voted the player with the most votes 4. Gnarly, that's funny, it was specifically my combing through the rules that led me to multivote 5. Mahaloth, neither do I 6. Pizza, this is classic Meeko, I'm even getting a slight town lean on him
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 19:14:29 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Jul 1, 2013 19:14:29 GMT -5
Dear god, how do I multi quote with the new interface?
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 19:54:22 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Jul 1, 2013 19:54:22 GMT -5
And I still fail to comprehend what exactly was so anti-town about multivoting. I'm going to need that explained to me very carefully, as if I were a child. 'Cause it's haaaard!!!!! I think that's pretty much it. Personally, I don't think multi-voting is intrinsically better or worse that single-voting. It's just one more mechanic that the mod may or may not choose to involve. Since it's a mod decision, it cannot be pro- or anti- Town (or pro- or anti- Scum). It just is, or is not. And on that note, Unvote: guiri Vote: MeekoFor pointing out that multi-voting is not pro-Scum, but then voting based on that reasoning anyway. Can we not define something as being anti-town if it means town wouldn't do it? But then again, anti town and pro scum are not necessarily the same thing.... Where did I point out that multi-voting is not pro-scum again? Voting for four people immediately at the start of a game, for no reason, doesn't ping anyone else? The multi vote happened within the first player post of the game proper. The intent was there, regardless of it being a valid vote. Opportunism is a bit like Schrödinger's Cat, every vote is AND isn't opportunistic. We can throw opportunistic out the window. Lets back it up one step. Being Opportunistic means to take the advantage of a situation. Thus a situation has to exist first. The situation here, is someone overly (not town) aggressive [aggression in the form of reasonless votes] trying too hard. There is no call for the first post to be a multi vote. There is no town motivation for it. Pizza, yours is the same as Guiri's -- I don't feel I need to explain the entire notion that voting In the very first player post of a game is anti town. I thought this was self evident. Hazard me for another example. Assume that Guiri is a day vig.
Guiri vigs Suburban. Guiri vigs Meeko Guiri vigs Maha Guiri vigs Patricia
Immediately, before they can even say word one in the game proper.
Is that not anti-town? Is that not pro-scum? Oh, but Meeko, you don't get it, that's not this case at all..... Isn't? Granted it changes a bit given the actual role Guiri has. But the change is even less than you realize.
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 21:18:37 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Jul 1, 2013 21:18:37 GMT -5
Oh, but Meeko, you don't get it, that's not this case at all..... One of us doesn't get it. We all know that if Guiri hadn't multi-voted on his first post that Pleo would have multi-voted on his first post. Are you equally suspicious of Pleo? Are you equally suspicious of me who voted for two people in succession who had not posted yet? Should I be equally suspicious of you who are voting based on the first post of the game? A case could be made that all votes are anti-town, since chances are that they are votes for town. I'm not sure it's possible to play the game without being anti-town at some point.
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Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 23:06:08 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Jul 1, 2013 23:06:08 GMT -5
Oh, but Meeko, you don't get it, that's not this case at all..... One of us doesn't get it. We all know that if Guiri hadn't multi-voted on his first post that Pleo would have multi-voted on his first post. Are you equally suspicious of Pleo? Are you equally suspicious of me who voted for two people in succession who had not posted yet? Should I be equally suspicious of you who are voting based on the first post of the game? A case could be made that all votes are anti-town, since chances are that they are votes for town. I'm not sure it's possible to play the game without being anti-town at some point. No you shouldn't be. I would thank you for not getting too carried away with yourself. It must take some doing to deny yourself the common sense telling you YOU KNOW you've stretched the premise too thin. Or did you simply ignore my definition and dismissing of opportunity, and everything after Guiri's votes? I've gone as far as I will this one. It IS self evident that Guiri's first post is vote worthy in and of itself. - Pleonast is behaving himself. Would you want to be the one to challenge that?
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Day One
Jul 1, 2013 23:13:59 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 1, 2013 23:13:59 GMT -5
Board just ate my post. Briefly: 1. I can see people disliking my early baseless votes but you'll find it's something I regularly do to get the ball rolling. I don't get the hate for the multivote though 2. Jaade, if early baseless votes are also a good way to catch scum, why discourage them? If someone places an early vote and goes the whole Day without moving it or giving reasons why it's the best vote compared to all other candidates, they deserve suspicion 3. Suburban, that was opportunistic. The reasoning could be applied to any player but you voted the player with the most votes 4. Gnarly, that's funny, it was specifically my combing through the rules that led me to multivote 5. Mahaloth, neither do I 6. Pizza, this is classic Meeko, I'm even getting a slight town lean on him 1. I would think that given the sheer numbers in town's favor, and that townies don't win without voting people, the first person to vote anyone will usually be town. Scum aren't always so eager to throw the first ball of mud. Still can't fathom what's wrong with voting. 2. No comment, just being thorough. 3. Is it lazy scum, or lazy townie? Either way it smacks of lazy to me. 4. Yeah, seemed backward to me. 5. Buh, better re-read. Have no idea what this is referring to. I'll see it after I post this. 6. Primarily the reason why I haven't voted him yet. He's behaving WEIRDLY, but weird behavior on day one is often townies with personality. As I said in the previous game, the scumbag is the one trying his damndest to look like a proper well behaved townie. With flawless logic and all that nice polite happy demeanour, finding unexplained oddness to be the best reason to vote someone. That's just the archetypical behavior of a day one scum. I will vote for anyone displaying the acting too properly gene, with no explanation attached.
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