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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 2:15:38 GMT -5
Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 11, 2013 2:15:38 GMT -5
I'm glad I finally have your attention by the way. I see that direct accusation was enough to pull you out of the woodwork. i always answer when i'm directly addressed. such arrogance. why did you not counterclaim? I strongly suspect you wanted me to counterclaim, which is why you claimed detective. It's the claim that forces the most valuable of town roles to be forced to counter, thus, it is the most damaging. and how was i supposed to know YOU were a detective on D1? fecking liar. tsk, tsk. employing meta to bolster your argument? that's very unlike you. Right, I've never commented on the scummy timing of scummy scumbags before. Oh wait, yes I did. The last round I was alive in the very previous game I was in. So, from my perspective, all of two rounds ago. I noticed you also ducked out of here immediately. What could you possibly be so afraid of? i did not duck out. how was i supposed to know you were online? i don't see why people don't see through you. i was before i my classes started. i'm not afraid. in fact, i will make it my mission to see you dead until i'm killed or lynched, you pompous, arrogant, lying, scummy scum. I saw you say they're "guilty", but that means nothing to me. Guilty of what? I don't care about your opinions, I want to know what alignment your investigation of gnarly determined. I'm not sure why you expected your hints to result in any actions. Until you claimed you were simply another player in the game, of unknown alignment and motivation. I'm certainly not going to do anything about your hints until I get a good read on you. And you, Plankton mah boy, look precisely like the scumbags that Paranoia thought you were. We are in agreement on this. In fact, I think the best course of action is for us to lynch a player who is not gnarlycharlie. Lynching a (presumably) known scum produces a useless voting record, because every reasonable player will vote for them. It's better for the lynch to be contentious, so that scum have to make a meaningful stand with their vote. So what do we do with gnarly? Given that there's more than one kill per Night, let's give any pro-town killers out there a chance to use their power in a useful way. If gnarly is still alive on Day Three, then we lynch them. who is them? if you are referring to me, would it be so unusual for scum not to NK me while i can be blocked? it would be easier to let town waste a lynch on me, yes? also i might actually be watched or, God forbid, be protected by someone who believes me. And what alignment result to you receive for gnarlycharlie? I am continually surprised by the inability to parse my posts. I thought my post left absolutely no doubt that my result on gnarlycharlie was Knave of Hearts. I'd appreciate any attempt to understand me. It's exhausting having to repeat things I've already revealed, quite adequately in my opinion. The full text of my result was: gnarlycharlie is loyal to the Knave of Hearts. I could wrap quote tags around that if that would be in any way impressive. I don't feel the need to dress it up. ooh, a result. it sounds fake. i would have believed something like gnarlycharlie is not loyal to the Duke of York. Thank you. The problem is that I was parsing your posts and I saw that you were avoiding explicitly stating what your result was. Evasiveness when discussing specifics is an indication of a lying, in my opinion. Let's put this behind us and get back to the business at hand: who do we lynch? My vote is on my preference. I can go with either one. Suburban seems to be specifically defending gnarlycharlie, not just with his votes, but with his rhetoric, and just like gnarlycharlie, his votes seem to lack any actual effort to find scum based on classic scum behavior, but rather voting the strange, voting the loud. I find him unreasonable and unconvincing. And regardless of where we end up voting, I don't mind discussing other individuals and suspects as well. We are of one mind when it comes to avoiding failwagons which destroy discussion. There hasn't been enough discussion this round as it stands. ah go after anyone you perceive is defending me. i guess you could be bussing too. but toDay is not the day for that. at least for me. In fact, I think the best course of action is for us to lynch a player who is not gnarlycharlie. Lynching a (presumably) known scum produces a useless voting record, because every reasonable player will vote for them. It's better for the lynch to be contentious, so that scum have to make a meaningful stand with their vote. So what do we do with gnarly? Given that there's more than one kill per Night, let's give any pro-town killers out there a chance to use their power in a useful way. If gnarly is still alive on Day Three, then we lynch them. Why are you assuming that we have pro-town killers out there? I think that is a very bad assumption indeed. Look who was killed last night. This plan does not pass my sniff test. It sounds like a plan to let a scummy Charlie use his power one more time. And end up right back where we are now, only with two more dead townies. Vote: Gnarlycharliewhat exactly is your reasoning? what power? i would have been taking a great risk being under great suspicion to be going around using my "scum" power. not sure if you're scum or just sipping the Pizza-flavored Kool Aid. As I think I said early Today, I don't think that a pro-town killer could possibly have killed SilverJan. No one voted for her. I don't recall anyone even mentioning a suspicion of her. I think it's unlikely, although possibly, that a pro-town killer killed Guiri. So I don't think it's likely that a pro-town killer exists to take on Gnarly tonight. I don't imagine that scum will take out the townie cop tonight as that will confirm the scum imposter. I suspect that we have a third party SK. And I doubt if they want to take out Gnarly or Pizza tonight. I'm sure they are happy to keep the focus on the pair of them. I imagine that scum are thrilled with this plan that lets them continue alive for another Day. I approve of the backup plan that we lynch one of them, but think that we need to implement it Today. I am fairly certain that one of them is scum. I think we need to find out which one. I am much less certain about other suspects, but hope that events over the next day or two will improve that. that's pretty anti-town. don't consider other suspects. even if Pizza or i get lynched toDay, it's always worthwhile to discuss. Man, miss a day miss a lot. Pizza I did follow your hints and I'm sorry you needed to claim so early. As for Charlie I think we could have gotten him lynched without the need for a full claim but as my grandmother would say no need to close the barn door after the horse are out. Anyway, I did want to throw another name into the hat for today "Bill" I see his posts of yesterday as trying to save a scum buddy. I'm good for a vote for any of the three and will be back to vote closer to day end. I appreciate your reading between the lines. I'm glad that's a skill not completely forgotten. I'm wary of Bill but there's just no way I'd be voting for a claimed mason this early. That would be silly... downright preposterous even. (No guys, I'm never going to let you live it down. I earned the right to rub some noses in it.)
wow! is this major snuggling? i feel like retching. ----------------------------------------- i have truly tried to be pro-town in this game. i have been truthful. if i were scum, it would have been easier to fake a result. unless i was unfortunate to choose a 3rd party or PFK, that would have been easy enough. i tried to stop others from saying whether their PMs were similar to mine. as for Pizza, i don't know why you're so impressed. feel sorry for lynching mason Pizza in another game? he's milking that sympathy. why has no one examined Pizza? his PM is pure BS. easy enough to make after my claim. he actually has a second power that would "scare" others away. he could use it as a reason later on why he's not being NKd. furthermore, he used the word "squash" in his second power. now when you read it, one would assume that means what i just said earlier. however, it is actually a vague word. i don't think the mod would have used an ambiguous word as "squashed." what i think happened was that Pizza was planning to claim the insane cop after the real one was killed. he floated the idea earlier that he could be insane. this is to lay the foundation for when i flip Town. he will beg forgiveness and say he is insane. the fact that he mentions this contradicts his certainty i'm scum. how can he be sure of his results if even he says that he might be insane and would be vewy vewy confused. aw, poor Pizza. to opine mire about his plan, he would have said he scanned a couple of dead guys and had discovered the results were reversed. but i don't think he was counting on the detective being outed on D1. now he's had to scramble. notice how he has focused only on me? in other games, he would have other suspects. so, to sum, Pizza is an an arrogant, pompous, lying scummy scum. don't let him wiggle free if i get lynched toDay. lynch that motherfecking scumbag. make sure to discuss other suspects too. don't be impressed by his words or experience. don't be impresses by his use of text reversors to make his breadcrumbs or his use of a crytogram solver to find that Pleonast is the woodpecker. lynch him! on a personal level, i 've already won. if Pizza is somehow town, he will eat humble pie, De'endee proportions. if he's scum, i've caught him and his so-called record of not being caught as scum by logic is out the window. after this game, we can all stop being intimidated.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 3:13:01 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 11, 2013 3:13:01 GMT -5
Wow. There was so much wrong with the above, I don't know how to begin.
You'd only think I didn't have other suspects if you hadn't been reading. In fact, gnarly, you're the one that has stopped discussing other suspects.
Your frustration feels genuine, though. It sucks when no one listens to you, even when you've done a really good job of fabricating things and baiting a cop.
I also note how personally you're taking things. As a scumbag, you of all people should know it's not personal, it's just business.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 3:13:42 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Jul 11, 2013 3:13:42 GMT -5
Day 2 Vote Count:
AskThePizzaGuy(2): BillMc (#51), GnarlyCharlie (#74) Suburban Plankton(2): Pleonast (#45), Cookies (#104) GnarlyCharlie(2): AskThePizzaGuy (#55), texcat (#106)
Cookies(1): meeko (#6) Pleonast(1): Mahaloth (#24) DizzyMrsLizzy(1): colby (#37)
BillMc(0): AskThePizzaGuy (#8-#55) Colby(0): GnarlyCharlie (#43-#74)
With these votes, as of post 121, AskThePizzaGuy will be lynched
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 3:14:45 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 11, 2013 3:14:45 GMT -5
Honestly, I love this scenario, IF dizzy is a town watcher. If she is, she better watch ATPG tomorrow. Pizza- I would suggest targeting someone else that you visited. Oh, and if more than one person visit Pizza and he lives, don't say anything to protect the doctor. In case dizzy is not a town watcher, I highly recommend the town doctor NOT visit me. Dizzy watching me should be compensation enough. The scums having to hit dizzy before they hit me to be safe, plus my own 50% chance of returning damage, makes things difficult enough on the scums. The doctor should do everything in their power to remain anonymous. Because, if Dizzy is not town, they should be able to eliminate the town doctor next round, if this above plan is followed. You're right, however, about one thing- no matter how things go, there are many traps laid out within which the scums will either be caught, or they will suffer more investigation results.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 5:05:08 GMT -5
Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 11, 2013 5:05:08 GMT -5
Wow. There was so much wrong with the above, I don't know how to begin. You'd only think I didn't have other suspects if you hadn't been reading. In fact, gnarly, you're the one that has stopped discussing other suspects. Your frustration feels genuine, though. It sucks when no one listens to you, even when you've done a really good job of fabricating things and baiting a cop. I also note how personally you're taking things. As a scumbag, you of all people should know it's not personal, it's just business. that's it? no reply to my arguments? explain your second power! where's your quick wit? i got you now, scum! Honestly, I love this scenario, IF dizzy is a town watcher. If she is, she better watch ATPG tomorrow. Pizza- I would suggest targeting someone else that you visited. Oh, and if more than one person visit Pizza and he lives, don't say anything to protect the doctor. In case dizzy is not a town watcher, I highly recommend the town doctor NOT visit me. Dizzy watching me should be compensation enough. The scums having to hit dizzy before they hit me to be safe, plus my own 50% chance of returning damage, makes things difficult enough on the scums. The doctor should do everything in their power to remain anonymous. Because, if Dizzy is not town, they should be able to eliminate the town doctor next round, if this above plan is followed. You're right, however, about one thing- no matter how things go, there are many traps laid out within which the scums will either be caught, or they will suffer more investigation results. all vague mentions of traps at what have you. more scaremongering about what will happen if things aren't done your way. are you from Fox?
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 5:05:57 GMT -5
Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 11, 2013 5:05:57 GMT -5
NETA - i have class now. can i be excused from the board?
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 5:26:15 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 11, 2013 5:26:15 GMT -5
I honestly didn't feel you made any arguments. Much like your "You never use meta in your arguments" nonsense which you pulled directly out of your butt, and I immediately showed was completely false, most of everything else you've posted has been reactionary nonsense. Examples: "and how was i supposed to know YOU were a detective on D1?" It's a fair bet town has a detective. Simply claim detective, and if you're not lynched, eventually one has to counterclaim you. At no point did you need to know I was a detective specifically. And you know that, but you chose to make this argument anyway, which is facetious. "i did not duck out. how was i supposed to know you were online?" There would be a little thingy under my name that said I was online. And I replied to you a whole 13 minutes after your post, and you were gone. It indicates to me that you're so caught that you don't feel you can actually debate me without preparation. Not that your preparations have made you in any way prepared. "ooh, a result. it sounds fake. i would have believed something like gnarlycharlie is not loyal to the Duke of York." That's amusing. Why would you believe that, if it were false? "i tried to stop others from saying whether their PMs were similar to mine." Yes, scum would never think to pretend to protect town interests. The game is just that simple. " his PM is pure BS. easy enough to make after my claim. he actually has a second power that would "scare" others away. he could use it as a reason later on why he's not being NKd. furthermore, he used the word "squash" in his second power. now when you read it, one would assume that means what i just said earlier. however, it is actually a vague word. i don't think the mod would have used an ambiguous word as "squashed."" 1) Remember, I breadcrumbed the Spider and Detective roles before you ever claimed. And, there is a sample role PM to work from. I hardly needed your role PM to make my own. So this is another line of reasoning that withstands zero scrutiny. 2) You know the mod well enough to determine that, since much of the rest of the role and story is in color, and in-universe, the mod would decide to simply say "nightkilled" when it doesn't fit in with the rest of what she was saying? That sounds suspiciously like you... pulled it out of your butt. I sense a pattern! "don't be impressed by his words or experience. don't be impresses by his use of text reversors to make his breadcrumbs or his use of a crytogram solver to find that Pleonast is the woodpecker. lynch him!" And here is your most egregious mistake. Obviously you must be impressed by my ability to decode Pleonast's breadcrumb. Now you're just jealous of my distinguished abilities.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 5:32:24 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 11, 2013 5:32:24 GMT -5
NETA - i have class now. can i be excused from the board? I just can't picture you without your board, gnarly dude. Hang ten, my good scumbag.
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Meeko
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 7:36:41 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Jul 11, 2013 7:36:41 GMT -5
The scums having to hit dizzy before they hit me to be safe, plus my own 50% chance of returning damage, makes things difficult enough on the scums. The doctor should do everything in their power to remain anonymous. Because, if Dizzy is not town, they should be able to eliminate the town doctor next round, if this above plan is followed. You're right, however, about one thing- no matter how things go, there are many traps laid out within which the scums will either be caught, or they will suffer more investigation results. Holding is mine. Chance of returning damage? We have THAC0 now?! At best, I can't parse any of it. That, or I'm missing out on a lot [yeah, yeah what else is new.]. I don't get part of this. That is all I saying.
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Meeko
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 7:44:33 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Jul 11, 2013 7:44:33 GMT -5
I don't know what he is. I know this: Furthermore: I'd like to wave hello to some folks I haven't seen in a while. Meeko, Pleo, Mahalo.... uhh Guiri-o, and Patrici-o. Runs with premise. I'm also going to wave at Paranoid-o, who I am not sure I've played with before, but I wouldn't put it past me to have forgotten. My mind is like a steel sieve. Quick like the lazy dog-o. Like a melon, and only half as sharpo. Can't remember crapo. Although I usually remember mafia-related things, I'm almost 30 now, so I might as well be walking with a cane. Two legs just aren't enough-o. Mirror, mirror, on the wall. Who is the fairest Pizzaguy of them all? And let's just highlight the relevant data point. Two legs just aren't enough-o. Because I have eight of them. Oh what tangled webs we weave, when we set out to deceive. Ah. K. Got it.
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Meeko
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 8:06:38 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Jul 11, 2013 8:06:38 GMT -5
And what alignment result to you receive for gnarlycharlie? I am continually surprised by the inability to parse my posts. I thought my post left absolutely no doubt that my result on gnarlycharlie was Knave of Hearts. I'd appreciate any attempt to understand me. It's exhausting having to repeat things I've already revealed, quite adequately in my opinion. The full text of my result was: gnarlycharlie is loyal to the Knave of Hearts. I could wrap quote tags around that if that would be in any way impressive. I don't feel the need to dress it up. There was the "if scum have a godfather,gnarly is not that person" Which was kinda around your elbow to find your ass, if you ask me. And we also have pizza talking about lying and deceiving. -- yes, I know it's Shakespeare but it still sticks out like a sore second thumb on the hand. I think I can better the plan I believe to be in effect. Unvote: COOKIES Vote: GNARLYFOS PIZZAI am willing to make a vote on gnarly now. If we are wrong on this, Then I will be willing to vote Pizza.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 10:08:50 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jul 11, 2013 10:08:50 GMT -5
So you don't see anything favorable about having the cop able to share investigation results, and continue surviving? It is all just doom and gloom? And just how long to you propose to let them live? Pleo suggests that we lynch someone tomorrow, but your argument seems to be that we let them both live and giving us results. What do you propose that we do with the results? We have results from Pizza, but you don't seem to want to act on them. Yeah, I think we should only give one Night for a killer to eliminate gnarly. If no one gets the job done, we have to do it ourselves. But note that giving someone a chance to kill the revealed scum is acting on the information pizzaguy gave us. It's a delayed action. who is them? if you are referring to me, would it be so unusual for scum not to NK me while i can be blocked? it would be easier to let town waste a lynch on me, yes? also i might actually be watched or, God forbid, be protected by someone who believes me. Are you arguing for your own lynch here? There's a claimed investigator who says your alignment is "Knave of Hearts". This means you have to die, sooner or later. I think allowing a killer eliminate you ToNight is more helpful to town than lynching you ToDay. If you are not dead on Day Three, then given that no one managed to kill you, we will have to lynch you. ah go after anyone you perceive is defending me. i guess you could be bussing too. but toDay is not the day for that. at least for me. No, I'm going after Plankton because of their vote on Day One. I won't go after anyone for defending you until we know your alignment for certain. what i think happened was that Pizza was planning to claim the insane cop after the real one was killed. he floated the idea earlier that he could be insane. this is to lay the foundation for when i flip Town. he will beg forgiveness and say he is insane. the fact that he mentions this contradicts his certainty i'm scum. how can he be sure of his results if even he says that he might be insane and would be vewy vewy confused. aw, poor Pizza. Quite simply, if your alignment turns out to be anything other than "Knave of Hearts", pizzaguy has to die. There's no indication in their role claim PM of any sort of unreliability. Lying of that sort requires lynching.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 12:24:06 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 11, 2013 12:24:06 GMT -5
gnarly seems insistent that neither he or myself will die tonight.
I am betting the scum have a doctor. In fact, I think that between the two of us, I'm the one that is going to die tonight. And even if I don't, then we will be going through this same exercise tomorrow, only with more dead townies.
Pleonast, I'm recommending his lynch today. I don't want to waste any further time with scum doctors possibly on the board. IMO he should have died yesterday when we had the chance. Then we would have one dead scum already, and one less dead town.
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Colby11
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 13:12:14 GMT -5
Post by Colby11 on Jul 11, 2013 13:12:14 GMT -5
Fine, lets wrap it up
Unvote: Dizzymrslizzy
Vote: Gnarlycharlie
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 13:46:47 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 11, 2013 13:46:47 GMT -5
I am continually surprised by the inability to parse my posts. I thought my post left absolutely no doubt that my result on gnarlycharlie was Knave of Hearts. I'd appreciate any attempt to understand me. It's exhausting having to repeat things I've already revealed, quite adequately in my opinion. The full text of my result was: gnarlycharlie is loyal to the Knave of Hearts. I could wrap quote tags around that if that would be in any way impressive. I don't feel the need to dress it up. There was the "if scum have a godfather,gnarly is not that person" Which was kinda around your elbow to find your ass, if you ask me. And we also have pizza talking about lying and deceiving. -- yes, I know it's Shakespeare but it still sticks out like a sore second thumb on the hand. I think I can better the plan I believe to be in effect. Unvote: COOKIES Vote: GNARLYFOS PIZZA I am willing to make a vote on gnarly now. If we are wrong on this, Then I will be willing to vote Pizza. Hold on a sec...you can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless you are seriously proposing that gnarlycharlie and Askthepizzaguy are both Scum, how can you be voting for one of them, and throwing an FOS on the other? I realize that anything is possible, but it's near certain that one of the two is Town, and the other is Scum. So if you've voting to lynch gnarly, then you must think Pizza is the Town Cop...so why the suspicion? And if you're suspicious of Pizza, then why in the world would you want to kill gnarly? We should off our Cop just to prove that the other guy is Scum? I suppose it'll work, but it's a bad way to go about it, don't you think?
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:02:05 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 11, 2013 14:02:05 GMT -5
I saw you say they're "guilty", but that means nothing to me. Guilty of what? I don't care about your opinions, I want to know what alignment your investigation of gnarly determined. I'm not sure why you expected your hints to result in any actions. Until you claimed you were simply another player in the game, of unknown alignment and motivation. I'm certainly not going to do anything about your hints until I get a good read on you. And you, Plankton mah boy, look precisely like the scumbags that Paranoia thought you were. We are in agreement on this. In fact, I think the best course of action is for us to lynch a player who is not gnarlycharlie. Lynching a (presumably) known scum produces a useless voting record, because every reasonable player will vote for them. It's better for the lynch to be contentious, so that scum have to make a meaningful stand with their vote. So what do we do with gnarly? Given that there's more than one kill per Night, let's give any pro-town killers out there a chance to use their power in a useful way. If gnarly is still alive on Day Three, then we lynch them. I think your plan is just plain bad. We have a clear choice Today: gnarly or Pizza. A game of 16 players is too small to have 2 Town Cops, so one of these two is Scum. Letting both of them live Today, so that our Vig can settle the score for us Tonight, is just plain wrong. First, we don't know that we have a Town Vig. Perhaps we have a Serial Killer, who might be more than happy to let us face this same decision Tomorrow. Perhaps the Scum had an extra kill which they used last Night. Second, your plan guarantees the Scum have an opportunity to act again Tonight. Sure, maybe we have a Town Roleblocker, and maybe they guess right...but maybe we don't. Third, all your plan does is delay our actions by a half cycle. A Town Vig doesn't know who is Town, so they have a 50/50 shot. Best case, they kill Scum, and we can move on Tomorrow morning. Worst case, they kill our Cop, and we have to lynch Scum Tomorrow. But if we lynch one of the claimants Today, then if we lynch correctly, we go into Tonight down one Scum. And if we guess wrong, then our Vig (if he exists) can kill Scum Tonight. Worst case, if we have no Vig, we have to lynch Scum Tomorrow. So why wait? If we lynch one of the claimants Today, then we have the voting record to look back on. If we let the assumed Vig do our work for us, then we have no voting record, and nobody can be held accountable. It sounds like you'd just like to avoid having to take a stand here.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:02:36 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jul 11, 2013 14:02:36 GMT -5
Then we would have one dead scum already, and one less dead town. Please explain this statement. I'm not going to vote to lynch gnarly ToDay. Those who wish to lynch ToDay are being reasonable, but too cautious. We don't know the full range of powers available to either town or scum--so let's give those powers a chance to work. Especially the town power roles, who are often reluctant to use their powers unless there is a clear target. We now have a clear target; let's give them an opportunity.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:08:43 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jul 11, 2013 14:08:43 GMT -5
So why wait? If we lynch one of the claimants Today, then we have the voting record to look back on. If we let the assumed Vig do our work for us, then we have no voting record, and nobody can be held accountable. It sounds like you'd just like to avoid having to take a stand here. You have this completely backward. Lynching gnarly ToDay gives us no voting record because voting for a revealed scum is a no-brainer. If we lynch someone else, there will be contention and disagreement over who it should be. And that is what makes a useful voting record. And advocating your lynch instead of a revealed scum's is taking a stand.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:11:19 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jul 11, 2013 14:11:19 GMT -5
Stupid board... I even previewed. So why wait? If we lynch one of the claimants Today, then we have the voting record to look back on. If we let the assumed Vig do our work for us, then we have no voting record, and nobody can be held accountable. It sounds like you'd just like to avoid having to take a stand here. You have this completely backward. Lynching gnarly ToDay gives us no voting record because voting for a revealed scum is a no-brainer. If we lynch someone else, there will be contention and disagreement over who it should be. And that is what makes a useful voting record. And advocating your lynch instead of a revealed scum's is taking a stand.[/quote]
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:15:56 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 11, 2013 14:15:56 GMT -5
I can go with either one. Suburban seems to be specifically defending gnarlycharlie, not just with his votes, but with his rhetoric, and just like gnarlycharlie, his votes seem to lack any actual effort to find scum based on classic scum behavior, but rather voting the strange, voting the loud. I find him unreasonable and unconvincing. And regardless of where we end up voting, I don't mind discussing other individuals and suspects as well. We are of one mind when it comes to avoiding failwagons which destroy discussion. There hasn't been enough discussion this round as it stands. Where have I been "specifically defending gnarlycharlie"? Certainly not just with my votes...because I haven't placed one yet Today, and as a non-counter-claimed Cop he didn't really need any defending Yesterday. As for my votes...I voted for both Meeko and Paranoia for what I felt were inconsistent behaviors. It seemed to me like they were saying one thing, but acting in a manner inconsistent with what they said. In my book, that's "classic scum behavior". Unfortunately, it's also "classic Town behavior", and it's often quite difficult to distinguish between the two. Particularly on Day 1, when there's no record of any sort to build upon. It turns out that I was wrong about Paranoia. That's too bad, but the fact of the matter is that's par for the course on Day 1. And before you point it out, I was 'wrong' about guiri as well. Except that I wasn't really 'wrong' about him, because I never had any strong feelings that he was Scum to begin with. My vote on him was purely an OMGUS (as I thought I made perfectly clear when I made it), and it was only there for 3 hours and 11 minutes, early on Day 1. Anyone who's trying to make that vote out to be 'significant' is stretching the point, and they know it.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:21:55 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 11, 2013 14:21:55 GMT -5
You have this completely backward. Lynching gnarly ToDay gives us no voting record because voting for a revealed scum is a no-brainer. If we lynch someone else, there will be contention and disagreement over who it should be. And that is what makes a useful voting record. And advocating your lynch instead of a revealed scum's is taking a stand. I disagree. If all we had was Pizza's statement "gnarly is Scum", and we lynched gnarly because of it, then you'd have a point. But that's not the situation. We have a claimed Cop who, without Pizza's counter, would be given the benefit of the doubt at this point. We also have Pizza's counter-claim. In this case, Pizza's claimed result is irrelevant; if he's the Cop then it's obviously true, but if he's Scum then it's the 'obvious' false result. The choice here is not "lynch gnarly or don't lynch gnarly". The choice is "lynch gnarly or lynch Pizza". There is a vast difference between the two scenarios. By lynching one or the other, there is a voting record. By abstaining and counting on a Night Killer to do our job for us, we have absolutely nothing.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:33:49 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jul 11, 2013 14:33:49 GMT -5
Stupid board got your post too.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:43:15 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 11, 2013 14:43:15 GMT -5
Vote: AskthepizzaguyI don't like the reasoning behind the timing of his claim. I don't like the fact that he investigated a "known" (to him, if he's the Cop) Scum. He's been around long enough to know that a counter-claim without an possible corroborating evidence (like an investigation result on a third person) could only be resolved by the death of one of the claimants. Pizza as a Town Cop should have investigated someone else, so that at least we would have another guaranteed result should he not survive until Tomorrow. His investigation of gnarly gives us absolutely nothing that we wouldn't already know after one of the two is killed. We are in agreement on this. In fact, I think the best course of action is for us to lynch a player who is not gnarlycharlie. Lynching a (presumably) known scum produces a useless voting record, because every reasonable player will vote for them. It's better for the lynch to be contentious, so that scum have to make a meaningful stand with their vote. So what do we do with gnarly? Given that there's more than one kill per Night, let's give any pro-town killers out there a chance to use their power in a useful way. If gnarly is still alive on Day Three, then we lynch them. I can go for this plan. It's bold. So, after catching Scum in the act of making a false claim, and counter-claiming in order to expose him, now Pizza "can go for" the plan that calls for letting the Scum live? If that were such a good plan, when why not hold off on counter-claiming until he had another result or two to give us? gnarly seems insistent that neither he or myself will die tonight. I am betting the scum have a doctor. In fact, I think that between the two of us, I'm the one that is going to die tonight. And even if I don't, then we will be going through this same exercise tomorrow, only with more dead townies. Pleonast, I'm recommending his lynch today. I don't want to waste any further time with scum doctors possibly on the board. IMO he should have died yesterday when we had the chance. Then we would have one dead scum already, and one less dead town. And now the Scum suddenly have a Doctor? Yes, let's take something that in practice (in these parts, at least) hardly ever occurs, for which there is not a single shred of evidence, and let's start basing strategy decisions based on it. I think gnarly is the Town Cop, he was blocked last Night, and Pizza is full of pepperoni. I'll admit that I can't quite put my finger on what his long game is...because even if we believe him and lynch gnarly, he's dead Tomorrow. But I'd not put it past Pizza to pull a play like this anyway, just to be sure of getting rid of the Town Cop.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:53:01 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 11, 2013 14:53:01 GMT -5
Stupid board got your post too. Yes, it looks like it did. I think it's because I quoted your 'messed up' post. Let's see if I can fix that... You have this completely backward. Lynching gnarly ToDay gives us no voting record because voting for a revealed scum is a no-brainer. If we lynch someone else, there will be contention and disagreement over who it should be. And that is what makes a useful voting record. And advocating your lynch instead of a revealed scum's is taking a stand. I disagree. If all we had was Pizza's statement "gnarly is Scum", and we lynched gnarly because of it, then you'd have a point. But that's not the situation. We have a claimed Cop who, without Pizza's counter, would be given the benefit of the doubt at this point. We also have Pizza's counter-claim. In this case, Pizza's claimed result is irrelevant; if he's the Cop then it's obviously true, but if he's Scum then it's the 'obvious' false result. The choice here is not "lynch gnarly or don't lynch gnarly". The choice is "lynch gnarly or lynch Pizza". There is a vast difference between the two scenarios. By lynching one or the other, there is a voting record. By abstaining and counting on a Night Killer to do our job for us, we have absolutely nothing.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:54:14 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jul 11, 2013 14:54:14 GMT -5
You are also completely ignoring the possible gains that come from leaving the claimed cops alive for a cycle. It eliminates the chance that we choose wrong and accidentally lynch the Town cop, and it gives us a whole other cycle worth of data to use in making a more informed decision about which one to pick, if that decision is not made for us by a killing role tonight, which, again, does not have to be aligned in any particular direction so long as one of them dies and either condemns or exonerates the one left alive. Or maybe both of them get killed, that's still a good trade from the Town perspective I think.
It is a good plan if you apply an actual risk analysis to it, and not just fixate on a worst case scenario.
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 14:55:17 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jul 11, 2013 14:55:17 GMT -5
NETA that "It eliminates the chance that we choose wrong and accidentally lynch the Town cop Tonight..."
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 16:11:30 GMT -5
Post by patricia on Jul 11, 2013 16:11:30 GMT -5
I wish I understood how to quote two different post in the same post - so someone/anyone who can please post both Pizza and Charlie claim together. Then if you look at the wording and your own PM you can see clearly that one is edited. On a side note Pizza's PM said he would learn the loyalty of "filling in the blank here" to which he later posted his results which are in line with the PM when he said "fill in the blank is loyal to ... you get my point
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Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Day Two
Jul 11, 2013 17:09:05 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Jul 11, 2013 17:09:05 GMT -5
Unless you are seriously proposing that gnarlycharlie and Askthepizzaguy are both Scum, how can you be voting for one of them, and throwing an FOS on the other? I realize that anything is possible, but it's near certain that one of the two is Town, and the other is Scum. So if you've voting to lynch gnarly, then you must think Pizza is the Town Cop...so why the suspicion? And if you're suspicious of Pizza, then why in the world would you want to kill gnarly? We should off our Cop just to prove that the other guy is Scum? I suppose it'll work, but it's a bad way to go about it, don't you think? I can be voting for one of them, and putting FOS on the other because I am town. Is there a reason you would question this? Does your current alignment cloud your judgement here? There is a reason I am voting gnarly, THEN fossing Pizza. What is the town motivation to lynch a claimed cop, and only FOS his primary* target? what is your motivation (personally) Suburban to do the same? It is extremely backward. ---- So if you've voting to lynch gnarly, then you must think Pizza is the Town Cop...so why the suspicion? I do? I realize that anything is possible, but it's near certain that one of the two is Town, and the other is Scum Why didn't you suggest that both are scum? Do you have motivation not to suggest this? ---- *assuming he's telling the truth, etc etc etc.
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Day Two
Jul 12, 2013 1:15:13 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 12, 2013 1:15:13 GMT -5
Suburban Plankton, you're such an obvious scumbag right now. I highly advise any town vigilante to target your guilty butt tonight.
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Day Two
Jul 12, 2013 1:21:28 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 12, 2013 1:21:28 GMT -5
I wish I understood how to quote two different post in the same post - so someone/anyone who can please post both Pizza and Charlie claim together. Then if you look at the wording and your own PM you can see clearly that one is edited. On a side note Pizza's PM said he would learn the loyalty of "filling in the blank here" to which he later posted his results which are in line with the PM when he said "fill in the blank is loyal to ... you get my point Here is my full, unedited post, containing my copypasted role PM. I don't know what he is. I know this: Furthermore: I'd like to wave hello to some folks I haven't seen in a while. Meeko, Pleo, Mahalo.... uhh Guiri-o, and Patrici-o. Runs with premise. I'm also going to wave at Paranoid-o, who I am not sure I've played with before, but I wouldn't put it past me to have forgotten. My mind is like a steel sieve. Quick like the lazy dog-o. Like a melon, and only half as sharpo. Can't remember crapo. Although I usually remember mafia-related things, I'm almost 30 now, so I might as well be walking with a cane. Two legs just aren't enough-o. Mirror, mirror, on the wall. Who is the fairest Pizzaguy of them all? And let's just highlight the relevant data point. Two legs just aren't enough-o. Because I have eight of them. Oh what tangled webs we weave, when we set out to deceive. I can't quote gnarly's post in a locked thread, so I'll copypaste his.
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