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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 2:07:16 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 2:07:16 GMT -5
What can I say, Bill. You posted something I felt was just absurd, at a certain point I stopped reading the entire post. You can claim to predict things when you actually predict them somewhere, not after the fact. Just smelled like unwarranted self-importance, and I don't care to read it.
If I were scum, I'd be paying much closer attention to the thread, looking for clues. I'd also have a team of people sitting next to me, telling me hey, BillMc claimed mason.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 3:29:01 GMT -5
Post by Jaade on Jul 15, 2013 3:29:01 GMT -5
I'm so sorry for being absent for most of the Day. I have had a very busy week in RL but read along here and there when I could.
So here goes thinking out loud:
I don't know what to make of the gnarly/Pizza mess. I don't think they could possibly both be Town detectives in a game that started with only 14 participants. I don't think they could both be scum unless Town has no detective at all BUT that would mean they were both taking a HUGE chance as scum buddies, since I've never been in a game without a Town detective and no one else has come forward to claim the role. I do not see the difference in PMs that Patricia sees that she has apparently used to soft-clear Pizza.
When I originally read Pizza's counter-claim, I was floored because of some of the things he said on Day 1, such as urging the "real" town detective not to claim if gnarly was lying. I found that strange if pizza was telling the truth in his claim because he was basically telling himself not to claim. But I think I understand something about how pizza thinks and I believe IF he is telling the truth, he said that to avoid scum thinking they had caught the detective. This makes the claim Day 2 problematic for me, because I don't understand what changed between the end of Day 1 and beginning of Day 2 to make pizza claim. I think the word "squash" seems completely appropriate considering Pizza's character name though. As has already been stated, people squish spiders. Squish, squash, all the same to me. I did find his secondary power to be strange.
Town has already lost 3 players, we can't afford to lose many more at the rate of 3 a cycle. Down to 11 now, possibly 8 toMorrow by the morning and that seems to me to only give us one last chance to start getting it right. By my calculations, if we had 3 scum and one SK, Town loses at the beginning of Day 4 if SK and scum both hit Town successfully. Even if I take the SK out of the equation, we could still lose on Day 4 if we lynch wrong Day 3, scum kills Town Night 3 and then we are at 3 all. Scum votes as a block early in the Day, even if all Townies band together and vote to lynch, it could be too late. That really makes me suspicious of the players who keep saying we should leave gnarly and pizza both until toMorrow. I feel with the number of players we are more likely to have a SK than a Town vig.
On gnarly: I have only played with him once before (also true of pizza), but the loss of temper was surprising to me as a complete departure from how I feel he acted as vanilla Town in HK2 on GB. Even when accused of being scummy in any way, he kept his cool and blew it off.
I am, of course, am not satisfied with pizza and gnarly's investigation results. If I were pizza, I MAY have investigated gnarly but I doubt it. I would have assumed that if I were the TD, gnarly must be sc
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 3:34:50 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 3:34:50 GMT -5
To address that, I'd have to point out that I have played in more games than I can count where there have been multiple detectives, town or otherwise. Scanning the other detective is completely standard procedure.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 3:38:32 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 3:38:32 GMT -5
I am from a very different mafia culture where they have different setups. Many of you are aware of this, and we've gone over this several times, on this board alone, let alone on Giraffe and the Straight Dope.
I'm not suggesting it is a crutch, but "finding" it strange that I would do X when it's not usually done here, is not a very good method of scum-hunting. To put it bluntly, if you don't understand the pizzaguy, you should not pretend to be able to guess his motives. It hasn't worked out very well so far.
If you ask me why I did this or that, I can answer. Speculating when I'm right here, and active, just strikes me as a lost opportunity.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 3:58:57 GMT -5
Post by Jaade on Jul 15, 2013 3:58:57 GMT -5
Sorry, the board wouldn't let me keep typing or edit and wouldn't let me copy my post to start again. To continue my last thought, if I were pizza, Town Detective, and someone else claimed Town Detective first, I probably wouldn't investigate them. I would automatically assume they were scum. Granted, I don't know anything about an insane cop role, but I still maintain there wouldn't be two Town cops with only 14 players. I would try to learn about someone else I found suspicious and keep fighting for a gnarly lynch or claim. I also see why it would be preferable for a scummy fake-claim Detective to claim to be role-blocked, as explained by pizza. Other claims: I see no reason not to believe BillMc at the moment since no one has countered him. It is possible there are no masons, but scum wouldn't know that so once again, that would be a big risk. Prior to his claim, he was someone I was quite suspicious of, and it has been hard to lay that down based on his word alone but I just can't see a good scummy reason for that particular claim at the time he claimed. Dizzy's claim is a little less convincing for me, but I think our focus needs to be on the gnarly/pizza claim right now. I don't have any specific reasons against her claim, but I don't find it rock solid yet, either. Back to gnarly, as I had planned to keep typing that part of my thought process before the board stopped me. I DO think I would be very risky for scum to claim Town Detective on Day 1 but I can see a reason for it. With so few players in the game, scum only has to convince Town to mislynch a few times and the game is over. Scum buying even one extra Day could result in a big win for them, in my eyes. All I can do at this point is cross my fingers and go with my gut instinct, since I can see both players as having motivations for their actions for either team. My gut says gnarly is acting strange, his results being blocked don't help me either way and of the two, I feel like be is more likely to be scum given the available evidence. Vote: gnarlycharly
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 4:11:53 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 4:11:53 GMT -5
Just a theoretical point I want to make.
Jaade, if gnarly is already about to be lynched, there is no actual risk in claiming. When your options are claim or die, and you are a scum role, you claim something town never wants to lynch.
In the previous game, in the netherworld of the dead, I explained why a mason is a poor choice to claim early, because it requires someone else to corroborate it, and risks being countered by a mason, which means the mason claim risks instant death, as opposed to saving oneself.
Almost all other claims don't carry such a risk, and the detective claim in particular has so much to gain.
1) Save oneself from almost certain death, tipping the lynch against a townie. 2) If you are never counterclaimed, you can cause significant damage. 3) The detective must counterclaim you, and there's always a chance people won't believe them. 4) If the detective even objects, the scum can usually spot that, before town can.
I still attempted to be discreet, and speak purely from a theoretical vantage point of hypotheticals, and why we shouldn't trust gnarly's claim straight out. But that is clearly pointing the finger at me. It may not result in my immediate death, because then gnarly gets lynched D2 without a second thought. But it does allow the scums to know who I am, when town does not.
Heh, I just wanted to make a minor point and here I am babbling. The point is, any scum in such a position as gnarly was last round has nothing to lose and everything to gain with a claim. It would in fact be very difficult to believe that a scumbag caught so early wouldn't claim something vital to the town's interests, such as a detective. It would be like leaving enemy material on the chessboard for no reason. If you're going to be captured, at least try for an exchange, so to speak.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 4:15:59 GMT -5
Post by Jaade on Jul 15, 2013 4:15:59 GMT -5
I am from a very different mafia culture where they have different setups. Many of you are aware of this, and we've gone over this several times, on this board alone, let alone on Giraffe and the Straight Dope. I'm not suggesting it is a crutch, but "finding" it strange that I would do X when it's not usually done here, is not a very good method of scum-hunting. To put it bluntly, if you don't understand the pizzaguy, you should not pretend to be able to guess his motives. It hasn't worked out very well so far. If you ask me why I did this or that, I can answer. Speculating when I'm right here, and active, just strikes me as a lost opportunity. I wasn't speculating on why you investigated him as much as I was stating what I probably would have done if I had been in your position. That is all that I can do at this point. I have only my experience, my logic and my thoughts on what scum/town would and wouldn't or should and shouldn't do. I have only played on Idle and GB and as I've said before, only a few games. I haven't seen multiple Town detectives and even if I had, I think I'd be doubtful that a game with 14 players had two. And when I started my post, you weren't online so it wasn't an opportunity I was aware I had at the moment.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 4:18:58 GMT -5
Post by Jaade on Jul 15, 2013 4:18:58 GMT -5
I'm positing from work on my phone, so I hope I haven't made too many typos or any that make my posts hard to understand. ProBoards and my iPhone are not playing well together tonight.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 4:18:58 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 4:18:58 GMT -5
I've actually been online for a while- I usually log on after 1am when I get home, most nights, and it's my computer time until I fall asleep, usually at about 6 or 7 in the morning.
I think this board doesn't register me as online when I check out the other boards I am on. But yeah, I'm here.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 4:23:09 GMT -5
Post by Jaade on Jul 15, 2013 4:23:09 GMT -5
Yes, it must. I was showing you offline both here and at the GB so I assumed you had turned in early. I had noticed you're usually on in the middle of the night, like me.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 4:27:07 GMT -5
Post by Jaade on Jul 15, 2013 4:27:07 GMT -5
Off topic notice: My daughter and I will be going up to Atlanta Wednesday night and coming back Saturday (college freshman orientation! OMG) so I expect my participation to be spotty through those days. I also expect college orientation to be very freaking boring for Mom so I may be sneaking in posts more frequently than I anticipate.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 4:28:06 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 4:28:06 GMT -5
Actually watching some Voyager on Netflix. Needed a break from the Star Trek role PM generation, and what better thing to keep my brain thinking about it?
Making progress, but the next two days will be hell. I'm in early tomorrow, have to stay late for a manager meeting, and what is usually my day off (Tuesday) is actually an early-in, late-out day.
I won't be able to finish until wednesday at the earliest. As a matter of fact, now may be the last time to ask me any questions whatsoever as pertains to this game. I will be turning in shortly, and I won't be coming back until the lynch is resolved, and the night has begun, and there's no strategy discussion at night.
And I doubt I will be here in the morning, for obvious reasons.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 4:29:12 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 4:29:12 GMT -5
Off topic notice: My daughter and I will be going up to Atlanta Wednesday night and coming back Saturday (college freshman orientation! OMG) so I expect my participation to be spotty through those days. I also expect college orientation to be very freaking boring for Mom so I may be sneaking in posts more frequently than I anticipate. Wow! Congratulations on that. I've yet to even begin the process of starting a family, I can't even imagine what your world is like. I must say I am jealous and happy for you.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 4:50:18 GMT -5
Post by Jaade on Jul 15, 2013 4:50:18 GMT -5
Thanks I'm proud of her, she's worked very hard for this. At the same time, it makes me feel olllllld and I'm not ready to be old yet! I have a lot of stuff left to do!
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 5:00:09 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 5:00:09 GMT -5
Thanks I'm proud of her, she's worked very hard for this. At the same time, it makes me feel olllllld and I'm not ready to be old yet! I have a lot of stuff left to do! Are you kidding? This might be just my own personal preference, but I've found that women who are old enough to have teenage daughters have a lot more character, a lot more wisdom, and are a hell of a lot more fun. Makes for much more interesting conversation and more creativity when it's time to play. And they're also quite a ways away from being "old", too. Just remember to try to have a little fun everyday. That's how I hang on to my youth. Maybe my hobbies have evolved from legos to video games to mafia games, but I still play, and I'm always up for something fun that challenges the mind. You've got a lot of stuff left to do. When you run out of things to do, then you can give yourself permission to be old.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 6:37:16 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Jul 15, 2013 6:37:16 GMT -5
Day 2 Vote Count:
GnarlyCharlie(6): AskThePizzaGuy (#55), texcat (#106), meeko (#130), colby (#133-#177), patricia (#156), dizzymrslizzy (#157), Jaade (#184)
AskThePizzaGuy(4): BillMc (#51), GnarlyCharlie (#74), Suburban Plankton (#142), colby (#177)
Suburban Plankton(2): Pleonast (#45), Cookies (#104)
Pleonast(1): Mahaloth (#24)
Cookies(0): meeko (#6-#130) BillMc(0): AskThePizzaGuy (#8-#55) DizzyMrsLizzy(0): colby (#37-#133) Colby(0): GnarlyCharlie (#43-#74)
Not Voted:
With these votes, as of post 195, GnarlyCharlie will be lynched
Day ends in approx 7 1/2 hours
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 7:07:52 GMT -5
Post by Jaade on Jul 15, 2013 7:07:52 GMT -5
Thanks I'm proud of her, she's worked very hard for this. At the same time, it makes me feel olllllld and I'm not ready to be old yet! I have a lot of stuff left to do! Are you kidding? This might be just my own personal preference, but I've found that women who are old enough to have teenage daughters have a lot more character, a lot more wisdom, and are a hell of a lot more fun. Makes for much more interesting conversation and more creativity when it's time to play. And they're also quite a ways away from being "old", too. Just remember to try to have a little fun everyday. That's how I hang on to my youth. Maybe my hobbies have evolved from legos to video games to mafia games, but I still play, and I'm always up for something fun that challenges the mind. You've got a lot of stuff left to do. When you run out of things to do, then you can give yourself permission to be old. I don't truly feel old, but it seems surreal to have a "grown" daughter. (Technically 3, counting her half sisters, who I adopted). I do have a pretty good life now and I am definitely still young enough to have fun and enjoy everything else life has to offer. And, as a bonus, I finally have a career that I really genuinely like! I go to work with a smile on my face every day and always look forward to new experiences there. (So sorry for the hijack, everyone!)
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 7:17:17 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Jul 15, 2013 7:17:17 GMT -5
Of course, the curve ball here could be that both gnarly and pizza are scum.
In a previous game the scum had completely knowledge of the town - so they may have already known that there are no detectives....so with Gnarly in the firing line on D1, he claims Cop, then gets bussed by Pizza on D2 for Pizza to have uber town cred (and Pizza asking to be watched and/or protected toNight in addition to his #2 deterrent power)...hmmm
Which does bring me back to Dizzy. If Gnarly was being truthful, then it would be highly likely that he would have either been blocked or killed last night - yet you chose to watch someone else. Strange.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 9:57:19 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 15, 2013 9:57:19 GMT -5
I am going to ask this question- what if both gnarly and Pizza are BOTH town? Gnarly's result was that he was blocked, and pizza determined that gnarly was scum If we are to believe this, it would mean that Pizza is an insane cop or scans everyone backwards, and gnarly really was blocked. It just doesn't make sense, especially with 2 vanillas and a Gaoler/Jailer? Role revealed via death. Two cops= overkill. So, it comes down to who is more truthful. I am a bit uneasy that A~ Pizza used the same claim tactic as his last game, and B- his secondary power makes no sense to me in terms of balance, unless there are a lot of scum out there. I feel that gnarly's death would tell us more, plus I feel that he may be scum with his vote on Paranoia on Day 1, which helped to get rid of him. Dizzy- care to share any results? I think it's very unlikely that gnarly and Pizza are both Town. In a game with only 16 players, 2 Detectives is simply too many. It's somewhat more likely that they are both Scum, but I find that hard to swallow as well. We can come up with all kinds or more-or-less plausible theories to explain the various permutations, but the odds are very good that one of them is Town and the other Scum. With that in mind, I don't really see how either player's death will tell us "more". Either way, it will tell us that one is Town and the other Scum. It's simply a matter of choosing one side or the other, or trying to play straight down the middle. It also occurs to me that it could be the case that gnarly is a Third-Party, falsely claiming Cop, and that Pizza is Town (i can't see a Third-Party Pizza counter-claiming in this case)...but that is for all intents and purposes the same case as "gnarly=Scum" at this stage of the game.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 10:01:34 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 15, 2013 10:01:34 GMT -5
Assuming I have my time zones correct, Day ends in a little less than 4 hours.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 12:03:57 GMT -5
Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 15, 2013 12:03:57 GMT -5
i'm really disappointed. not so much that i'm being voted but more than my posts have been ignored or just superficially understood. i usually don't post a lot and get called out for it. now that i've made pretty substantial posts, nada. *shrugs* Charlie, Sorry you feel I'm being lazy - but you have made it so easy for me to feel good about my vote again today. Just to make you feel like your long and I'm sure a post you worked very hard at was read, My vote is based on the same thing as yesterday's vote and the same reason I'm again spelling out for you as you seem to have forgotten that you asked me to spell it out yesterday. My reason for voting for Charlie - in plan black and white is as follows: "His PM looks edited when compared to Pizza's, Lizzy's and MINE again I'm not spelling out why it is different because that would only help the scum team" I also asked the others to look at the PM you posted and to decide for themselves. On a side note your case against Pizza's results is weak the mod told the results as blank is loyal to blank not based on blanks loyalty to the person it is being told to which is how I have always noticed it to be done. Example I'm town my results would be "Player A is loyal to Scum" - not Player A is not loyal to your team i take it back. you're either blind town or scum. i did a pretty extensive analysis of the two claims and that's what you have? you won't even say that it's good or it's crap? is it because you have to explain yourself? this will haunt you later so i really hope you're scum. i will try to make my arguments clearer to understand. maybe a change in format will help. reasons i am town: 1. i said i didn't have a result rather than having a result. it would have been easier to say Idle Thoughts is Town or CatinaSuit is Scum to prove my claim. 2. i told others not to say whether their PMs were similar to mine. this may make it easier for scum to find Town's power roles. reasons AskthePizzaGuy is scum: 1. he claimed DETECTIVE. confused? i don't mean that he counterclaimed me although i will touch on that later. you see, i claimed Detective, not cop nor investigator. i didn't claim spy or sheriff which, with the flavor, the mod may have used. now they might have the same abilities but they are different names. how would i as scum know that Pizza was a detective too? do you think i made a very lucky guess? you might argue that the mod gave cover roles. however the mod didn't do so in his previous game, Wedlock. i argue that he didn't this game either. 2. Pizza's second power is obviously fake. a. the power is ambiguous what does it mean to get squashed? does this mean anyone who tries to NK him? or the last who voted tp lynch him? what about targeting him would some other power? it is VERY unclear. i really don't see an experienced mod such as ours do this. b. the power is useful as a deterrent only if it is known. most players wouldn't post their powers unless pressured to do so. this is a useful extra power, sure, but only minimally. you have to let people know you have that power for it to scare away players who would want to target you, especially kill you. i believe that Pizza added this so he could defend why he was still alive later in the game. he would say scum would be hesitant to kill him. 3. he claimed that he might be an insane cop but it is still very sure about his belief i am scum. he has to say this in case i am lynched or killed before him. he needs to float this idea so can justify his wrong result and get away with it. he will then say all his reads are reversed. the problem with stating the possibility he's insane is that it doesn't explain why he is totally convinced i'm scum. he only offers the statement that he would be very confused. that's hilarious after he just gave a possibility why his result was wrong. 4. he delayed his counterclaim if someone claimed cop and i was Town's version, i would have counterclaimed. perhaps i would have done it with 24 hours left in the Day as not to derail discussion just as i do when i have a scum result as a cop. one can argue that he needed a Night to investigate and what have you. okay so why didn't he announce his result right away? but gnarly, you said it was good to delay the result. yes, but he didn't wait long either. when it appeared to him that i wasn't getting heat, he claimed. this wait and see doesn't seem very Pizza. he even asked others if their PMs had also just a #1. 5. the text of his result seems off. call this a gut feel more than anything. as a Town detective, i believe a "gnarlycharlie is not loyal to the Duke of York" would be better as this takes a town perspective. i will continue to defend myself and attack Pizza. to my lazy voters, here's a very substantial post. put holes through it and you can use that to justify your vote. otherwise, you're just full of it. So you outright can't prove you are town. And you wants us to take you at your word for it? And the the fact that you DON'T have a result somehow proves you are town? I don't follow how your second one proves ANYTHING. -- Yes, this is the textbook definition of a counterclaim. In fact it is exactly how it works. As to why "Detective" is used over any other word, I find that detective is actually the default word used. Cop IMHO comes into play only when players shorten it. To me, it is a bad fit at worst, when was the last time a donut muncher had ""one more thing"" ? I've never ever played in a game with a "spy" or a "sheriff". Have you? I can't think of any character that would fit that role, per the flavor. And since when, when defining the role on its core basis, does the mod cling to flavor? At a given point in EVERY role description, a basic language has to be used. At this point on every level "Detective" works more than anything else. "If someone tries to squash you, you have a 50% chance of poisoning your killer, who will then die in two days." You embrace flavor in the first anti-pizza point, and shirk it now? It's not ambiguous in the least . I view mafia as a game with townsfolk. This town as it were has the power en mass to lynch someone, and send them to the gallows to die, eventually. No one in particular "kills" the person going to the lynch. In this case the last vote has NO MORE power than the first vote. As it should be. Now, a NK on the other hand, is a crime, and one of opportunity, at that. "Squash" as a euphemism, or in this case, staight up, would describe a death, any death to a spider, quite well. To me at least this makes perfect sense. Notice you don't comment on the coin flip AND the 2 day waiting period. This to me balances out (it might make the power underpowered, frankly) and "proves" townliness in and of itself. I disagree, powers are best, and often held close to the vest for insurance. One thing we have to learn as players, is that no two players will play the same role the same exact way. Hell, I was in a game in recent memory, where I had a suite of kick ass powers. ... I was able to watch my own death as it happened, and I was a Scotsman at the same time. I believe we won that game, based on my actions alone, there. If I had told everyone what I can do, before hand? (Actually, I did tell everyone, which made it that much sweeter, once it happened) The point is, I think pizza was playing the role the best way possible, the best way he could, and wanted to. Not to snuggle, but I think pizza and I on a .... For lack of better words, psychological level would act in the same way here. .... I get his play here, and I can't hold it against him. And I won't, either. If he is an insane cop, how will he find this out? Is it not the best practice to be hesitant, all the way around, with an "insane" role? He needs to admit his insanity at his best possible time, totally,ignoring everything EVERYTHING your are doing in the game. Except for maybe the fact that he can counter claim you. The dynamic of counterclaiming is self sufficient to itself, it doesn't care for sanity, or anything else. (Well you know what I mean, I hope) As to his delay, if he is an insane anything, his delay would play into the over abundance of hesitancy. The text is off? But this is a gut feeling.... So We can disregard it? Ok. But text being off, in an environment after the rash of handshaking and the fiasco that was LOST mafia, I can stomach "off" texts. But ok, this does actually check with Pizza's ..... Featureless result post. I guess I should FOS him. Oh wait. i'll be brutally frank and admit i can't follow most of what you said. but i agree, i can't prove i'm town. neither can Pizza. only the mod can. you've said this yourself in a past game. i don't know why you're expecting me to prove i'm town. i've made arguments why i'm more likely town than Pizza is. i don't see how you can expect more. I don't follow your reasoning as to why my PM should match his. If we were both townies, the discrepancy could be explained very simply- the game host never wrote it exactly the same way. If one of us is scum, then if they were to match, the one that got posted second would be the fake, because then it was the fake copying the real one. But they don't match, because mine is real, and his is the fake. so you keep saying. what will you say when i flip town? Sorry, the board wouldn't let me keep typing or edit and wouldn't let me copy my post to start again. To continue my last thought, if I were pizza, Town Detective, and someone else claimed Town Detective first, I probably wouldn't investigate them. I would automatically assume they were scum. Granted, I don't know anything about an insane cop role, but I still maintain there wouldn't be two Town cops with only 14 players. I would try to learn about someone else I found suspicious and keep fighting for a gnarly lynch or claim. I also see why it would be preferable for a scummy fake-claim Detective to claim to be role-blocked, as explained by pizza. Other claims: I see no reason not to believe BillMc at the moment since no one has countered him. It is possible there are no masons, but scum wouldn't know that so once again, that would be a big risk. Prior to his claim, he was someone I was quite suspicious of, and it has been hard to lay that down based on his word alone but I just can't see a good scummy reason for that particular claim at the time he claimed. Dizzy's claim is a little less convincing for me, but I think our focus needs to be on the gnarly/pizza claim right now. I don't have any specific reasons against her claim, but I don't find it rock solid yet, either. Back to gnarly, as I had planned to keep typing that part of my thought process before the board stopped me. I DO think I would be very risky for scum to claim Town Detective on Day 1 but I can see a reason for it. With so few players in the game, scum only has to convince Town to mislynch a few times and the game is over. Scum buying even one extra Day could result in a big win for them, in my eyes. All I can do at this point is cross my fingers and go with my gut instinct, since I can see both players as having motivations for their actions for either team. My gut says gnarly is acting strange, his results being blocked don't help me either way and of the two, I feel like be is more likely to be scum given the available evidence. Vote: gnarlycharlywhy vote your gut when i have laid out a lengthy discourse? you can agree or disagree but at least vote with my posts in mind rather than your gut. ----------------------------------------------------------------- in my mind, i've pretty much proven that Pizza is lying, at least with his second power. suddenly the lynch the liar culture here has disappeared. Pizza, if this is what has happened, i congratulate you even though you're scum. i hated that knee-jerk reaction from townies. unfortunately, when it should have been good for town, LTL has vanished. i will again express my disappointed with those who have not made a comment about my posts. at least Patricia and Colby made some effort even if they caught my ire. that said, i prepare for my lynch. i would have preferred Pizza lynched first but since it is likely not happening, i will give some words of advice. 1. lynch Pizza next. of course i would prefer that you discuss other suspects first. don't derail discussion with an autolynch of Pizza. don't fall for his insane cop plea. despite actually floating the idea that he could be insane cop and also using such roles as a mod, i find it suspicious of him to be very sure of his results. 2. if there are four scum, i opine that Pizza based on his play will have bussed one fellow scum, snuggled another and ignored the last. so look for someone who he has disagreed with a lot (besides me ), someone he has agreed with a lot or praised and one who he has not commented on. 3. um, lynch Pizza.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 12:06:51 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 12:06:51 GMT -5
I congratulate you on narrowing down your field of suspects to merely those people I have voted, not voted, or ignored outright.
Bravissimo!
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 12:26:56 GMT -5
Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 15, 2013 12:26:56 GMT -5
I congratulate you on narrowing down your field of suspects to merely those people I have voted, not voted, or ignored outright. Bravissimo! hah! let's see where all your bravado is after i'm lynched. i don't really see how you expect to get away with this. i suppose it's a feather in your cap to see the fantastic player, gnarlycharlie, go before you. LOL
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 12:28:07 GMT -5
Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 15, 2013 12:28:07 GMT -5
NETA - i see you're around. you've been around more often than i ever recall in any other game. just making sure i'm lynched., i suppose. ha ha ha.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 13:17:28 GMT -5
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Jul 15, 2013 13:17:28 GMT -5
Of course, the curve ball here could be that both gnarly and pizza are scum. In a previous game the scum had completely knowledge of the town - so they may have already known that there are no detectives....so with Gnarly in the firing line on D1, he claims Cop, then gets bussed by Pizza on D2 for Pizza to have uber town cred (and Pizza asking to be watched and/or protected toNight in addition to his #2 deterrent power)...hmmm Which does bring me back to Dizzy. If Gnarly was being truthful, then it would be highly likely that he would have either been blocked or killed last night - yet you chose to watch someone else. Strange. Where did I say who I watched. The only thing I shared about my target last night was that I didn't watch either player that was killed on N1. To be honest with you I was really hoping to catch any of the N1 Killers.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 13:20:31 GMT -5
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Jul 15, 2013 13:20:31 GMT -5
I congratulate you on narrowing down your field of suspects to merely those people I have voted, not voted, or ignored outright. Bravissimo! hah! let's see where all your bravado is after i'm lynched. i don't really see how you expect to get away with this. i suppose it's a feather in your cap to see the fantastic player, gnarlycharlie, go before you. LOL And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling Pizzaguy. Yes, my being online almost constantly whenever I'm not at work or asleep definitely indicates something. For example, I've made tons of progress writing those Star Trek role PMs. I figured I'd put all that effort forging spider-detective role PMs to good use. In fact, it may interest you to know, I also forged cow-roleblocker, snail-tracker, bat-watcher, and robo-doctor roles, and somehow inserted them into my backwards breadcrumb. Hint: You can also look vertically and diagonally, as well as upside down. It's like a word search. I also inserted random references to spiders, monkeys, and even spider monkeys. Basically, it's fun for the whole family, and provides hours of entertainment at no additional charge. And I also came up with great nursery rhymes and have been inserting them into our culture for generations, all in preparation for this day, when I would finally bring down the great gnarlycharlie with the counterclaim of destiny. A quick side note: Spidermonkey would be the best superhero ever. Everyone loves Spider-man, and everyone loves monkeys. He'd swing from his webs while eating bananas with his feet. You can't top that. Of course, he would be a chimpanzee, and not an actual spider monkey, just to make the bad guys even more confused.So, Sir Gnarles Bottomley Charles III esquire, formerly of Champan-Upon-Warwickville, may I ask you one question? Are you going to kill me tonight, and if so, can our Watcher be in attendance? Every good show deserves an audience.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 13:45:05 GMT -5
Post by Mahaloth on Jul 15, 2013 13:45:05 GMT -5
Do you think that lynching a scummy Pleo has a higher priority that resolving the Gnarly/Pizza standoff? Yes.
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 13:50:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 15, 2013 13:50:56 GMT -5
hah! let's see where all your bravado is after i'm lynched. i don't really see how you expect to get away with this. i suppose it's a feather in your cap to see the fantastic player, gnarlycharlie, go before you. LOL And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling Pizzaguy. Yes, my being online almost constantly whenever I'm not at work or asleep definitely indicates something. For example, I've made tons of progress writing those Star Trek role PMs. I figured I'd put all that effort forging spider-detective role PMs to good use. In fact, it may interest you to know, I also forged cow-roleblocker, snail-tracker, bat-watcher, and robo-doctor roles, and somehow inserted them into my backwards breadcrumb. Hint: You can also look vertically and diagonally, as well as upside down. It's like a word search. I also inserted random references to spiders, monkeys, and even spider monkeys. Basically, it's fun for the whole family, and provides hours of entertainment at no additional charge. And I also came up with great nursery rhymes and have been inserting them into our culture for generations, all in preparation for this day, when I would finally bring down the great gnarlycharlie with the counterclaim of destiny. A quick side note: Spidermonkey would be the best superhero ever. Everyone loves Spider-man, and everyone loves monkeys. He'd swing from his webs while eating bananas with his feet. You can't top that. Of course, he would be a chimpanzee, and not an actual spider monkey, just to make the bad guys even more confused.So, Sir Gnarles Bottomley Charles III esquire, formerly of Champan-Upon-Warwickville, may I ask you one question? Are you going to kill me tonight, and if so, can our Watcher be in attendance? Every good show deserves an audience. ha ha ha! you know you won't be killed at Night, at least not by scum. for the record, here are the people who i believe belong in the categories i mentioned. i may miss some in the first two groups. 1. in conflict with Pizza - SP, Pleo, Bill 2. liked by Pizza - Patricia 3. no comment from Pizza - everyone else ;-)
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 13:51:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 15, 2013 13:51:17 GMT -5
hah! let's see where all your bravado is after i'm lynched. i don't really see how you expect to get away with this. i suppose it's a feather in your cap to see the fantastic player, gnarlycharlie, go before you. LOL And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling Pizzaguy. Yes, my being online almost constantly whenever I'm not at work or asleep definitely indicates something. For example, I've made tons of progress writing those Star Trek role PMs. I figured I'd put all that effort forging spider-detective role PMs to good use. In fact, it may interest you to know, I also forged cow-roleblocker, snail-tracker, bat-watcher, and robo-doctor roles, and somehow inserted them into my backwards breadcrumb. Hint: You can also look vertically and diagonally, as well as upside down. It's like a word search. I also inserted random references to spiders, monkeys, and even spider monkeys. Basically, it's fun for the whole family, and provides hours of entertainment at no additional charge. And I also came up with great nursery rhymes and have been inserting them into our culture for generations, all in preparation for this day, when I would finally bring down the great gnarlycharlie with the counterclaim of destiny. A quick side note: Spidermonkey would be the best superhero ever. Everyone loves Spider-man, and everyone loves monkeys. He'd swing from his webs while eating bananas with his feet. You can't top that. Of course, he would be a chimpanzee, and not an actual spider monkey, just to make the bad guys even more confused.So, Sir Gnarles Bottomley Charles III esquire, formerly of Champan-Upon-Warwickville, may I ask you one question? Are you going to kill me tonight, and if so, can our Watcher be in attendance? Every good show deserves an audience. ha ha ha! you know you won't be killed at Night, at least not by scum. for the record, here are the people who i believe belong in the categories i mentioned. i may miss some in the first two groups. 1. in conflict with Pizza - SP, Pleo, Bill 2. liked by Pizza - Patricia 3. no comment from Pizza - everyone else ;-)
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Day Two
Jul 15, 2013 13:55:13 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jul 15, 2013 13:55:13 GMT -5
I'm a bit concerned with Pleo, Maha, and cookies making obvious one off votes so they don't have to take responsibility for how this all goes down. Voting the claim/counterclaim is the only logical move here.... We can talk about Suburban all day tomorrow if you want. You are using "one-off vote" in a way that I am not familiar with. Talking about pizza or gnarly is not really productive. At least one of them is lying. If one flips town, the other one must die. There's no reason to resolve it now. And because so many players are focused on the shiny investigator claims, scummy players like Suburban are not getting much attention or pressure at all. *sighs* will anyone take it against me if i don't respond to this vote? Not me. I hope that someDay Meeko gets to the point of using votes to convince others that someone is scum, instead of voting to try to look townie. obviously, i'm not advocating my own lynch. i'm just stating reasons why i wouldn't be dead right away if i survive this Day. at any rate, who were the "them" you were referring to? can you reply to my posts about my suspicions of Pizza's PM? I don't really care why you may survive the Night. I claimed investigator says you're scum. That means you must die. If you don't die during the Night, I will want to lynch you Tomorrow. I find the analyses of role PMs (yours, theirs, all) so far in this game to be unconvincing. Moderators do unexpected things, intentionally or not, and I am not going to let those kinds of subtleties influence my vote. i'm not Val Salva and i have lost my cool before, several times. you weren't around yet. i even ended up voting myself those times. i've become more controlled, trying to emulate the chill surfer attitude. i have not given up on offense. i'm on the offense against YOU. just because your the main accuser, it doesn't mean i'm on the defense. i'm preparing special offense just for you. I find these kinds of meta arguments (like those concerning posting times, or who's online when) to be useless and rather anti-game. (This is not directed at solely gnarly, by the way.) Please, just argue the cases as presented in this game and don't bring up the past. @pleo - ordinarily I would be on board with your suggestion of keeping both alive, except you have made no comment about something that historically has been one of your pet peeves - that this is a game of deduction - not a game of chance. Pizza's second power makes it a game of chance - it's a flip of coin whether there is a revenge kill - it doesn't say whether it works in response to lynch or NK; I don't think CIAS would have been so unspecific in a power Good point, but I'm not the designer or moderator of this game. Town has already lost 3 players, we can't afford to lose many more at the rate of 3 a cycle. Down to 11 now, possibly 8 toMorrow by the morning and that seems to me to only give us one last chance to start getting it right. By my calculations, if we had 3 scum and one SK, Town loses at the beginning of Day 4 if SK and scum both hit Town successfully. Even if I take the SK out of the equation, we could still lose on Day 4 if we lynch wrong Day 3, scum kills Town Night 3 and then we are at 3 all. Scum votes as a block early in the Day, even if all Townies band together and vote to lynch, it could be too late. That really makes me suspicious of the players who keep saying we should leave gnarly and pizza both until toMorrow. I feel with the number of players we are more likely to have a SK than a Town vig. Your logic seems backwards to me. I think the second killer last Night was probably town, because a serial killer in a small game is very hard for town (or scum, really) to beat. The game will be too short to find the serial killer. Unless there's some limitation on their power that will prevent a kill every Night. To address that, I'd have to point out that I have played in more games than I can count where there have been multiple detectives, town or otherwise. Scanning the other detective is completely standard procedure. Then it's a poor procedure. Investigations should attempt to maximize information gained. Investigating a claimed player with a power that can be disproven does not do that. Try to play better next game. I am from a very different mafia culture where they have different setups. Many of you are aware of this, and we've gone over this several times, on this board alone, let alone on Giraffe and the Straight Dope. I'm not suggesting it is a crutch, but "finding" it strange that I would do X when it's not usually done here, is not a very good method of scum-hunting. To put it bluntly, if you don't understand the pizzaguy, you should not pretend to be able to guess his motives. It hasn't worked out very well so far. If you ask me why I did this or that, I can answer. Speculating when I'm right here, and active, just strikes me as a lost opportunity. I agree with this completely. Players in this group far too often use the logic "if I had power X, I'd do Y. when they claim power X, they did Z. since Y != Z, they must be scum." Not useful for finding scum. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ And I've run out of time. I haven't read past the post I just quoted. I'll try to catch up later. Too bad the moderator doesn't let us play at Night.
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