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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 6, 2013 18:08:29 GMT -5
Start of game delayed due to unexpected family.
The farms were not nearly so well cared for here as they were farther back. There were fewer houses and fewer fruit trees, and the farther they went the more dismal and lonesome the country became.
At noon they sat down by the roadside, near a little brook, and Dorothy opened her basket and got out some bread. She offered a piece to the Scarecrow, but he refused.
"I am never hungry," he said, "and it is a lucky thing I am not, for my mouth is only painted, and if I should cut a hole in it so I could eat, the straw I am stuffed with would come out, and that would spoil the shape of my head."
Dorothy saw at once that this was true, so she only nodded and went on eating her bread.
"Tell me something about yourself and the country you came from," said the Scarecrow, when she had finished her dinner. So she told him all about Kansas, and how gray everything was there, and how the cyclone had carried her to this queer Land of Oz.
The Scarecrow listened carefully, and said, "I cannot understand why you should wish to leave this beautiful country and go back to the dry, gray place you call Kansas."
"That is because you have no brains" answered the girl. "No matter how dreary and gray our homes are, we people of flesh and blood would rather live there than in any other country, be it ever so beautiful. There is no place like home."
Once again -- welcome to Oz. Some of you will survive your trip. Others will fall along the Yellow Brick Road.
Day One begins now. It will end on Friday, October 11 at 4 p.m. Pacific Time
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 6, 2013 18:30:24 GMT -5
I gotta tell you...if that darn Lollipop Guild rings my doorbell one more time, I may just lose it...I'm not interested in joining, and no I don't want one of your pamphlets! Good Day!
Mickey says hi, everyone.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 6, 2013 20:57:52 GMT -5
I'm the Wicked Witch of the West....however, I am not scum. In fact, my powers seem to be for the good.
I AM, however, third party....but I'm not a PFK third party.
My role is: Third-party Mad Bombing Archangel
I don't control or have any bombs however, that's just the way the role works. And the name sounds bad, I know, but from what I get from the role PM, it's actually quite GOOD, because I can give/offer protection.
Okay, so a lot of info coming...it's a lot too. Sounds like my role is one of the most convoluted ones in the game, I imagine. Certainly one of the most convoluted ones I've ever read, so read the following carefully:
Once a night I choose someone to put protection on.
On the FIRST Night: The person is protected from any/all forms of death.
On the SECOND Day/Night, IF the person is Town and Town try to kill them, it will fail...however kills from any other group will not be blocked. If the person is scum and a third party or PFK role tries to kill them, it will fail....however kills from any other group will not be blocked.
I'm not allowed to protect myself and I'm not allowed to protect the same player more than once (hence why I'm a "Mad Bomber" type---see below).
My protection is able to be redirected and blocked.
IF MY PROTECTION IS SUCCESSFUL, the person I'm protecting will get a message overnight that says: "You feel the press of lips against your forehead."
Here's how I win: I win whenever EVERYONE STILL ALIVE in the game is under protection. Please note: It's not an automatic win (as in, the game WILL NOT end if this is achieved), rather, I just win with any other winners at the end.
Finally, I will win if the above goal is met WHETHER I'M STILL ALIVE OR DEAD.
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Feel free to kill me off if you wish, but know you'll be killing off a protective role.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Oct 6, 2013 21:27:01 GMT -5
Idle, very um interesting.....SCREAMS a Jester role (Wins if they are lynched). I think we should leave you be for tonight, and let a Vig/SK take care of you.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 6, 2013 21:50:21 GMT -5
So, you're FOR killing off a protective role, then.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 6, 2013 21:52:14 GMT -5
It's okay, since you don't know my history. But just so you DO know: I've never ever ever been lying when claiming on Day one (something I've done about 10-12 times now). I'm sure there are some people in this game who can tell you/confirm that.
I've always been honest in all of my Day One claims and I'm not about to start mucking that record up now.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 6, 2013 21:53:13 GMT -5
Interesting PM Idle. You can't protect anyone more than once and can only protect them on night one and day/night two, yet you win when all living players are protected? Is there an inconsistency here or am I missing something? I assume that once you protect someone that they're not protected for the remainder of the game, or are they?
This may be radical, but one way we can test Idle's claim is to all vote to lynch the same predetermined player (perhaps a vanilla volunteer) and tell Idle (aka the good wicked witch) to protect them. If they don't die then perhaps there's some truth to the claim. Not a guarantee as there could be other, more complicated, explanations, but just an idea.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 6, 2013 22:04:39 GMT -5
Interesting PM Idle. You can't protect anyone more than once... This is consistent with a "Mad Bomber" type role...which usually requires putting something "on" every player (in this case, protection). So...why would I want to do it to anyone more than once if they're already accounted for after the first time? The object is to try to get as many people as I can before I die, so it makes sense that I can't do it to the same player more than once. I don't know. My PM only mentions Night one and two...it doesn't say anything for the remainder or beyond that...so, I assume it's just good for those first two Nights. Not sure it works in the DAY, it might just be for NIGHT. My PM says "Night", however it also adds that caveat that if Town tries to kill Town, it will fail, so that is why I assume it MIGHT be for the Day too. I wouldn't try it out, though....because it could very well mean "If a town player (I.E. a vig) tries to kill another town player at Night" instead. One thing is for sure, though....unless I'm blocked, anyone I do this too will get the PM "You feel the kiss on your forehead", that will prove I'm a mad bomber type role, at least (and not a Jester). Jester....really? Come on. If I were just a Jester, I'd just say I was scum. I wouldn't post something so convoluted that it would be extremely hard just to think up. I don't like typing all that much or for very long.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Oct 6, 2013 22:12:31 GMT -5
Idle, the only game I've played with you, you completely lied to Town and claimed a player was Scum when you were wrong, and they were Town. So lets just say I don't quite know what to do with you and a claim that you are the Wicked Witch of the West.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 6, 2013 22:23:57 GMT -5
You're right. But for the record, I was Town too in that game.
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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Oct 6, 2013 23:38:05 GMT -5
Well, that's definitely an... interesting start. If it's true, it would seem to indicate that there are multiple killing factions, which is worth knowing.
What I can't figure, though, is why you'd mention it at all. Especially on the first day. If I were scum and I saw that role, I'd take a gamble on there being no other docs, or a doc not trusting you, and hit you either tonight or tomorrow. Why would you out a protective role so early on unless you're just trying to forestall an investigation?
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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Oct 6, 2013 23:39:14 GMT -5
Oh, also, what is the flavor justification of your wincon?
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Oct 7, 2013 0:23:15 GMT -5
Idle, interesting role. Crazy role, so I wonder if there are more crazy roles like that...
But with Sister Coyote as the mod, there is no limit as to her imagination.
So I'm willing to believe Idle.
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 7, 2013 0:43:38 GMT -5
Great opening post Idle. Jeepers! What a convoluted role.
What's up with this talk of Jesters, in nearly 3 years of playing I have yet to actually come across that particular role. Looks as if you jumped in there Dizzy and didn't even want to give the role a chance or get Idle to explain more about it. I thought that a very strange reaction.
Idle, I read your role to mean that you could protect that person as soon as you tagged them and that they are protected to a somewhat lesser degree in the following Day/Night cycle.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 7, 2013 2:04:23 GMT -5
Well, that's definitely an... interesting start. If it's true, it would seem to indicate that there are multiple killing factions, which is worth knowing. What I can't figure, though, is why you'd mention it at all. Especially on the first day. If I were scum and I saw that role, I'd take a gamble on there being no other docs, or a doc not trusting you, and hit you either tonight or tomorrow. Why would you out a protective role so early on unless you're just trying to forestall an investigation? Hi, I'm Idle. This is normal for me. You're talking to a guy who has claimed Day One TWICE before this game when being a full Town Doctor. I can show you links if you like. As for my flavor justification of wincon...uh, what's that mean? No idea, but if you want the exact wording, it's this:
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Post by swammerdami on Oct 7, 2013 4:52:14 GMT -5
It's okay, since you don't know my history. But just so you DO know: I've never ever ever been lying when claiming on Day one (something I've done about 10-12 times now). I'm sure there are some people in this game who can tell you/confirm that. I've always been honest in all of my Day One claims and I'm not about to start mucking that record up now. The very very first game of Mafia I ever played was Pleonast's Conspiracy 4, right here on this board. You were Cabalist but claimed Town Scotsman on Day 1.I'll guess parts of your described PM are correct. The whole thing? Not so much.
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Post by swammerdami on Oct 7, 2013 4:56:10 GMT -5
(Actually, now that I think of it, though you did lie in your Day 1 claim that game, you didn't actually claim Scotsman ... you just encouraged others to infer it.)
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Oct 7, 2013 6:11:25 GMT -5
Idle, very um interesting.....SCREAMS a Jester role (Wins if they are lynched). I think we should leave you be for tonight, and let a Vig/SK take care of you. why does this scream jester? this makes you want to lynch him? while it is possible that a jester exists, i really doubt it. players in this board really abhor it. i don't just see it. Well, that's definitely an... interesting start. If it's true, it would seem to indicate that there are multiple killing factions, which is worth knowing. What I can't figure, though, is why you'd mention it at all. Especially on the first day. If I were scum and I saw that role, I'd take a gamble on there being no other docs, or a doc not trusting you, and hit you either tonight or tomorrow. Why would you out a protective role so early on unless you're just trying to forestall an investigation? well that's Idle being Idle. he almost always claims on D1. he's like Pleonast that way.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Oct 7, 2013 7:01:55 GMT -5
Simple, if this is Idle being Idle I haven't experienced it before, and I thought the whole claim was weird as the first post out D1.
And Gnarly, no I said lets NOT lynch him, and let a SK/Vig take care of him because thats typically how you take care of a Jester.
Idle Some real questions.....
Here's why I don't believe Idle's claim as is:
1- Wicked Witch of the West = Evil 2- Mad Bomber roles are usually PFKs 3- Why claim D1 right off the bat. He obviously doesn't do it in EVERY game, why this game, and why with this role?
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Oct 7, 2013 7:03:30 GMT -5
And I need Coffee....Idle I was going to ask you why we should believe you are a good 3rd Party vs a PFK 3rd Party for the reasons I stated after that, but then my brain wanted to answer Gnarly.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 7, 2013 7:55:47 GMT -5
Firstly - if his mouth is painted on and he cannot eat - how can he speak? ? Voices in my head! Secondly - is there a definitive list of who is actually playing? Thirdly - that is one helluva powerful role Idle. You are effectively protecting someone for three periods - night-day-night, and indeed, you are overlapping protections as from N2 onwards, you would be effectively protecting 2 people each night. Once a night I choose someone to put protection on. On the FIRST Night: The person is protected from any/all forms of death. On the SECOND Day/Night, IF the person is Town and Town try to kill them, it will fail...however kills from any other group will not be blocked.If the person is scum and a third party or PFK role tries to kill them, it will fail....however kills from any other group will not be blocked.e.g. on N1 you protect SirNotAppearingInThisGame, so he is protected N1, D2, N2 on N2 you protect SirAlsoNotAppearingInThisGame, so he is protected N2, D3, N3 and so on On the first night you provide absolute protection On the second day you provide protection from a town mislynch, and any town on town day kill On the second night you provide protection from town on town kills, and pfk/scum on scum kills and you get mod confirmed as being truthful when you protect someone. If there is a town vig, then you are their best friend as you prevent them killing fellow townies. And if we wanted to be totally mechanical we could do the following: a) someone volunteer to be lynched today b) agree who we will lynch tomorrow c) the doc (assuming we have one) protects idle d) idle protects the nominated lynchee e) tomorrow everyone votes for the lynchee - if lynchee is town, then idle's protection prevents the town mislynch f) rise and repeat
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 7, 2013 10:14:55 GMT -5
Firstly - if his mouth is painted on and he cannot eat - how can he speak? ? Voices in my head! Secondly - is there a definitive list of who is actually playing? Thirdly - that is one helluva powerful role Idle. You are effectively protecting someone for three periods - night-day-night, and indeed, you are overlapping protections as from N2 onwards, you would be effectively protecting 2 people each night. Once a night I choose someone to put protection on. On the FIRST Night: The person is protected from any/all forms of death. On the SECOND Day/Night, IF the person is Town and Town try to kill them, it will fail...however kills from any other group will not be blocked.If the person is scum and a third party or PFK role tries to kill them, it will fail....however kills from any other group will not be blocked.e.g. on N1 you protect SirNotAppearingInThisGame, so he is protected N1, D2, N2 on N2 you protect SirAlsoNotAppearingInThisGame, so he is protected N2, D3, N3 and so on On the first night you provide absolute protection On the second day you provide protection from a town mislynch, and any town on town day kill On the second night you provide protection from town on town kills, and pfk/scum on scum kills and you get mod confirmed as being truthful when you protect someone. If there is a town vig, then you are their best friend as you prevent them killing fellow townies. And if we wanted to be totally mechanical we could do the following: a) someone volunteer to be lynched today b) agree who we will lynch tomorrow c) the doc (assuming we have one) protects idle d) idle protects the nominated lynchee e) tomorrow everyone votes for the lynchee - if lynchee is town, then idle's protection prevents the town mislynch f) rise and repeat And that way Town would only start losing players on N3 when the player that was protected on N1 and N2 could be safely NK'd and I would doubt that scum would volunteer to be protected because even if Idle protected them they could be lynched because it wouldn't be a mislynch. This looks like a no win situation for scum and far too easy for Town. Have I got this right?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 7, 2013 10:15:33 GMT -5
Simple, if this is Idle being Idle I haven't experienced it before, and I thought the whole claim was weird as the first post out D1. And Gnarly, no I said lets NOT lynch him, and let a SK/Vig take care of him because thats typically how you take care of a Jester. Idle Some real questions..... Here's why I don't believe Idle's claim as is: 1- Wicked Witch of the West = Evil 2- Mad Bomber roles are usually PFKs 3- Why claim D1 right off the bat. He obviously doesn't do it in EVERY game, why this game, and why with this role? I agree with 1. 2 can be either way, though. In any case, you'll know 1 and 2 were the truth (that I was telling the truth about them) whenever I'm dead and the role is revealed as THIRD PARTY and not PFK (my PM specifically calls a group "THIRD PARTY" and another group "PFK"...so I can tell you right now that not all third parties will be PFK. PFK, remember, is playing for keeps, which means trying to STEAL a win. Roles that SHARE a win are not PFK. PFKs win alone, with nobody else. My wincon allows sharing it with others. As for 3, I mostly do it just so I don't have to worry about the game much. I figure I will be open and upfront with everything I know in most games and let town decide what to do. BILLMC: 2 things wrong with that: 1. I asked for clarification and was told it doesn't prevent a lynch, rather a DAY KILL...so, I guess there are roles in this game that can kill in the day, either regularly or a one shot. 2. What's to stop someone who wants to make me appear like a liar to BLOCK my power? However, two other things: 1. Making me seem like a liar would obviously put me out of commission early...and since my power could benefit both town AND scum majorly, I'd think any scum people would want to try to keep me in the game too. 2. In any case, I understand if anyone doesn't believe me and wants to lynch me. I'm not really going to argue too hard against anyone doing that, because....what else can I say? I have everything in the open already.
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 7, 2013 10:53:28 GMT -5
That sounds more balanced with the kills and not lynches.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 7, 2013 10:55:41 GMT -5
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 7, 2013 11:37:58 GMT -5
First off, I do have any powers this game. I am not making any other claims (explicit or implicit) at this time. Next, a comment about multi-voting. Many players feel multi-voting is too complicated to track or difficult to decide how to vote. In reality, it is a powerful tool, and responsibility, for town. To vote in a multi-vote game, use these two rules of thumb: 1. If you think a player should be lynched, then do vote for them. 2. If you think a player should not be lynched, then do not vote for them. This means not voting for a player is as strong a statement as voting for them is. The excuse "I didn't vote for them because I was voting for someone else" is no longer valid. If a player turns up scum, and you were not voting for them, that's a black mark on you. By not voting for them, you were advocating they not be lynched. This means more work for town because you can't rest once you've found a good lynch candidate, but it also means scum can't get free passes for not voting for other scum. I'm the Wicked Witch of the West....however, I am not scum. In fact, my powers seem to be for the good. You're claiming not-town, you need to give us a reason not to lynch or vig you. You need to do at least one of two things to convince me it's worthwhile to keep you around: 1. You need to post your complete, unedited role PM. No paraphrasing, no omissions. You say you're not a threat to us; posting your whole PM gives us something to evaluate that for ourselves. 2. You need to tell us how you're going to help town. Based on the fragments you've told us, it looks like you'll be protecting players who you expect to survive until end game. And you can only protect each player once. How does the help us? You're not going to be protecting the players a traditional pro-town protector does: pro-town players who are at risk of being Night-killed by scum. Those are exactly the type of players that don't survive to end-game, and thus you shouldn't be targeting them because it doesn't advance your win condition. Give us something to work with that's more than a rambling claim. Idle, very um interesting.....SCREAMS a Jester role (Wins if they are lynched). You'll have to expand on this. What about Idle's claim seems to indicate Jester? It's okay, since you don't know my history. But just so you DO know: I've never ever ever been lying when claiming on Day one (something I've done about 10-12 times now). I'm sure there are some people in this game who can tell you/confirm that. I've always been honest in all of my Day One claims and I'm not about to start mucking that record up now. Meta-game arguments are useless. Your past behavior does not help us determine your alignment or motivation in this game.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 7, 2013 11:52:04 GMT -5
I already have, but here it is again: I'm a protective role. I can protect players.
As for full role, here you go:
And I had it clarified: Protection is just for the first two Nights...NOT the rest of the game.
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Post by patricia on Oct 7, 2013 12:08:24 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why Idle claimed before using his protects - To win his protects need to live to end game. So why not use your protects then claim? Now to "prove" his claim he will need to tell us who he protects which is too much information to give scum IMO so I would like to hear why he claimed right out of the gate and not the well I have done it before reason.
On a side note - I haven't played a multi-vote game before so how many is a good number of votes - too many will cloud the issue but to few looks scummy? I'm leaning towards three votes - any oldies want to weight in with your ideas?
also, Idle are you saying once you protect someone they can only be lynched never night killed or day killed? - I don't think that was clear your protect seems to be more then the one night or one day normal type. Also, what if you pick a scum to protect? I guess that would work for you but not so much for us townies. This seems like a scum role to me not third party or at least win stealing
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Post by patricia on Oct 7, 2013 12:13:51 GMT -5
ok - that cross posted with your claim - still something seems off. from the last part it looks like you can protect someone each night and the protect only last one night/day but if anyone you protected any night is alive at game end you win? so why claim - seems the longer you live the more protects you do the better your chances to win?
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Post by patricia on Oct 7, 2013 12:15:02 GMT -5
how can you protect A,B,Q and Z with only two protects??
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