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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 20, 2013 18:03:51 GMT -5
Apologies for the lack of color.
Suburban Plankton, Winkie, backup Alignment Cop is dead.
Day Three begins now. It will end on Friday, October 25 at 4 p.m. Pacific time.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 20, 2013 19:21:14 GMT -5
backup Alignment Cop?
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 20, 2013 20:46:18 GMT -5
Yes Mahaloth, that's what I thought so I looked it up on the Mafia Wiki:
"A Deputy is a flavor name for a Backup Cop. Once a Cop has died, the Deputy will become an ordinary Cop (the flavor logic being that the Deputy steps up to replace the deceased Cop). The Deputy may or may not be self-aware (if not, they will receive a Vanilla Townie Role PM). Occasionally a self-aware Deputy is called a Retired Cop."
I assume this is essentially what SP was - but could only identify alignment and not role. It does bring up the question as to whether or not there is another cop who can only discover alignment or if Fruit was only an alignment cop, or if that's all SP could do as the backup cop. And had SP graduated to full Cop when Fruit was killed?
How is Scum finding our Town Power roles so easily? Is this game full of cops/trackers/watchers on both sides or something?
Now to go back and look more closely at what Suburban P has been saying.
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Post by patricia on Oct 20, 2013 22:58:13 GMT -5
Last night I decided to track Plankton - mostly because I didn't like how he was picking apart Pleo claim and pushing that somehow Colby knew about Pleo Role it all seems like he was looking for a reason cover his vote.
Anyway, last night Plankton visited Chameleon
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 20, 2013 23:23:56 GMT -5
Well, that sucks.
Go Winkies (and all the rest of the Townie folks)!
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 21, 2013 1:06:25 GMT -5
Last night I decided to track Plankton - mostly because I didn't like how he was picking apart Pleo claim and pushing that somehow Colby knew about Pleo Role it all seems like he was looking for a reason cover his vote. Anyway, last night Plankton visited Chameleon It's a pity we can't get a result from SP. YesterDay I was sure there was something funny about Chameleon but when he started delving into things last Night, I sort of changed my mind. Now that I know I wasn't the only one to think there was something suspicious about him I don't know what to think anymore.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 3:04:02 GMT -5
Anyway, last night Plankton visited Chameleon Well isn't that interesting? Are you trying to infer simply that Plankton found me suspicious or are you planning to try and build some kind of case to say I killed him? Very convenient since I've been quite vocal about finding you suspicious. Here's what I think - I'm right about you being Scum (tracker or not) and you're panicking so need to make me appear suspicious. What's really awesome is that if this is your intention and you're actually successful in getting Town to lynch me then, when I flip Town, you are suspect numero uno. Here's my role PM: You are a Quadling. Like all your brethren, you have a propensity toward wearing red, and your home is in the South of Oz. In the Emerald City, you wear Green, of course -- Oz culture is fairly big on sartorial conformity. Town wins when all threats to Town have been eliminated. If Town want to lynch me to find out whether I'm lying or not then I completely understand, although it's in Town's best interest, and my own, to preserve my life. I have no other power than my vote (which I believe is significant). My last theory was that those who voted for TLD and Fruit are more likely to be Town than those who voted for TLD only (potentially to buy Town credibility by sacrificing a fellow Scum, who's power, I believe, was used up, and not having votes on a player they were poisoning and knew would flip Town). This theory worked at least in regards to Suburban Plankton, who voted for both and flipped Town. Based on this I also think that SilverJan and Pleonast are more likely Town than Scum. I'm a little more wary of Pleonast as he had, and then removed, a vote on Patricia, but that could just be coincidence. Vote: Patricia - for my previous suspicions of her and for her trying to make me appear suspicious because of my suspicions of her. Also because I'm still thinking Town seems investigative-type role heavy ( Fruit and SP) and that a Scum tracker could be a balancing feature. And she only voted for TLD. Vote: Dizzymrslizzy - for being so defensive of Patricia and supporting her lead in making me appear suspicious - and my voting theory (she also only voted for TLD).
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Oct 21, 2013 6:55:44 GMT -5
You are crazy Chameleon.
Please show me where I was defensive of Patricia. In fact I was pretty suspicious of Patricia before she posted her tracking results. After she posted her results which lead to a killer, I believe her claim. I think it would be pretty ballsy for Patricia to out a strongman teammate, and I don't think that's what happened here at all. And then you think a 3rd scum jumped right on it? Really? Do you really think Scum is that oblivious?
Where I have said ANYTHING to make you look suspicious, other than getting an off ping from you which looks like I'm far from the only one to feel that.
And why Yes I only voted for TLD. I was quite confident in that vote, and guess what it was the right move!
Finally, that's your WHOLE PM? Looks like there is at least one piece missing.
You left out your role? Are you a Vanilla? Do you have a role?
Vote: Chameleon
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Post by patricia on Oct 21, 2013 7:27:05 GMT -5
Chameleon, If I felt you were scum I would have tracked you not plankton, Didn't you read my post? all I said was the Plankton visited you - Therefore Plankton must have had a reason not me. Since I know I not scum, I have found your posts funny because I know how off base they are and I don't see town lynching me. What I'm worried about is why scum didn't kill me last night. I guess the only options are a) I was protected or b) they think they can get me lynched today or tomorrow. This is what I think. You were pretty vocal about thinking I'm scum and that I outed a fellow scum day one without any pressure! If I'm scum this is a win win for my side as they know we are both townies, and we are doing the dirty work for them. If people follow your lead and lynch me scum has gotten rid of the town tracker. If we lynch you today due to the fact that plankton visited you last night and you are town (as I believe you are) then they have gotten a mislynch and I would be the best choice for the next lynch. So that would be two townies mislynched. So I say let look elsewhere for scum at least for today.
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 21, 2013 7:46:05 GMT -5
Thanks for posting your PM Chameleon. I think you are most likely telling the truth. However I disagree with your vote on Patricia, I don't think we were meant to think that you killed SP, she was following him and he came to visit you. I think that SP would have got a role reveal on you if he hadn't been killed and Patricia could have verified that he did indeed visit you. I don't think there was meant to be a slur there. It would be better to hear from Patricia of course but that's my take on it.
Dizzy, you are obviously not a Vanilla Town but are you scum? You could be a Town power role and didn't bother to read the rules which gave a sample Town PM. With this information are you still going to keep your vote where it is? Your main case on him isn't a case anymore.
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 21, 2013 7:50:09 GMT -5
My post looks odd now lol. Patricia's post wasn't there when I started writing mine. I do agree with her though, we need to look elsewhere for scum, I think both Chameleon and Patricia are Town. Dizzy, I am not so sure of.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 21, 2013 8:46:17 GMT -5
Catching up from Day 2 These posts from Chameleon ping me On one had, Chameleon is accusing Patricia of bussing a fellow scum - but on the other saying that TLD is irrelevant to town's success - especially since subsequently TLD flipped scum. Patricia, how convenient to hand us someone who is irrelevant to Town's success but preserves Scum. Vote: Patricia Chameleon seems happy to lynch Patricia, TLD or Fruit [ Vote: FruitAndGarbage - to be fair as I already have a vote on Patricia - until I can figure out who seems more scumlicious. Then backs off Fruit as it seems Chameleon expected something to happen I'm curious to find out what happens naturally without a lynch interfering. Unvote: FruitAndGarbage Meeko seems to have gone back to being unintelligble and a bit of omgus voting between Colby & Gnarly This is a very interesting post from Fruit I don't think either of those is a very good interpretation of the situation. Especially since the reason I'm voting tld has nothing to do with night-actions: I will explicitly say that if I do have an action, it wasn't used on tld last night.[/quote] Fruit did not investigate TLD (he investigated someone else) and his vote on TLD was on instinct. My own view on his earlier "read between the lines" post was that he was magic bagging an investigation result - seems he had one, just not on TLD. If picking apart his claim was all you'd done, I wouldn't even be raising an eyebrow. The reason it makes me leery and that I mentioned it at all was because in combination with the other things you did (going after colby for making an assumption it looks like several other people did and that I think is very reasonable, voting for patricia with what I consider very weak reasoning [there's no reason for her as scum to stick her neck out to be the last vote on an already-successful wagon, especially if she knew he was going to flip not-scum]), it looks more like the behavior of someone trying to find any little slipup that can be magnified into a lynch than someone genuinely hunting scum, which is why the fact you changed changed your mind doesn't really sway me and even made me a bit more suspicious; scum love to drop unpopular pushes when it becomes clear they're not working. I'm not convinced you are scum at this point, just somewhat suspicious based on whom you've chosen to target so far and why. Fruit expresses some suspicion of Plankton but the "not convinced" would suggest that Fruit hadn't investigated Plankton - so whoever Fruit did investigate on N1 is still alive. While Fruit defends Patricia here, there is nothing from his voting record that would indicate that he had investigated Patricia on N1
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Post by BillMc on Oct 21, 2013 9:03:38 GMT -5
Night 2 Good to see TLD was scum. So Fruit's sleepy message may have been an indication of a delayed kill - or he was day killed. This may have been the sort of thing Idle's day protection may have prevented. Fruit had stated that his reason for voting TLD was nothing to do with night actions - so Fruit did not investigate TLD. This caught my eye in light of her post at the end of D2. The only one who knew Fruit was a goner before tonight was the player who killed him - so sure, if you want to let the rest of us know who you are that would be great! Ok, so I need to correct myself here. If Fruit was killed by Scum then all of Scum knew he would die. But we don't know for sure it was Scum although I suspect it was. Chameleon's assertion that it was a poisoner and that the poisoner was scum implies that the scum team is pretty powerful - unstoppable kill + delayed kill/poisoner + godfather (Chameleon's other assertion that Patricia bussed TLD would require Patricia to be a godfather otherwise any investigation would reveal her as scum.) This means that be the end of N2, the scum could have had 3 kills, against the town's 2 lynches. This seems imbalanced. I'd appreciate Pleo's thoughts on the balance. I think it is more likely Fruit was killed by a pfk or possibly town - e.g. in story's recent game the poisoner was town. It's important to keep in mind that if Fruit was killed by Scum then during Day 2 all of Scum knew he was going to die on Night 2. This invariably would have had an effect on their comments and actions on Day 2 (no need for lynching him for example). TLD's vote on Fruit was entirely safe - TLD knew he was likely going to be lynched and flip Scum, and knew that Fruit was going to die and flip not Scum (or possibly Scum knew he was the Town Cop, somehow, although I'm not sure how since he would have been poisoned on Night 1). So who else voted for Fruit - Pleo, Suburban Plankton and SilverJan. Why would any Scum besides TLD vote for him knowing a) that he was going to die anyway, and b) that he would flip Town (most likely) or 3rd party. So I'm not thinking they seem all that suspicious at the moment, even though they voted for a Townie. Then again that could be what they want me to think - but not going to worry about that for now. I'm going to guess there's at least some Scum in the TLD voters (for Town credibility). So, removing the Fruit voters, they are - Patricia, Dizzy, Colby, Chameleon, Bill, and Mahaloth. And of course I crossed me off that list . Your argument is that anyone who voted fruit can't be scum because if the poisoner was scum they knew he was going to die? I would have to disagree with the assumption that scum would not have voted fruit 1) all the votes for Fruit (except Jan and Chameleons) were prior to Patricia naming TLD - ie you are smudging everyone who accepted Patricia's information 2) If the scum knew fruit was likely to die of poisoning they would not vote for him? but this is a multivote game and they could have voted for both. If the Strongman only had a one shot power then TLD's was already used and he was no longer a power. Add to that the running suspicion on TLD with so many voting for him. If it seemed inevitable that he would be a casualty then why not use it to buy Town credibility? I'm by no means sold on it, but it's what came to mind - I really don't understand why it seems so far fetched. I haven't voted for anyone yet because I want to hear what people have to say about this idea. So Chameleon is assuming the scum used TLD's power N1 to kill Idle, which is a change from her earlier position in D2.11 that she thought Idle was an odd choice for scum kill. The problem I have with the underlined part is that the vote count was 3 to 1 in favour of Fruit when Patricia revealed her information on TLD. TLD had a single vote on him (Fruit's) and it was inevitable at that point that TLD would be lynched so Patricia chose to bus him and save Fruit? I think that it is unlikely because the scum team is so small compared to Town anyway that getting rid of one of their own at this stage of the game is just wrong. We will still want results from Patricia and if she is lying then it wouldn't be for long. She would be found out. That's my thought on it anyway. I'm inclined to agree with Jan's view. Does anyone think that whoever killed Fruit knew he was the Town Cop or did they just get lucky? It probably wouldn't be possible with night actions only since he was sleepy on Night 1 and there were no actions Night Zero. He didn't really do any magic bagging that I remember until Day 2, after he was poisoned (or whatever was done to him). Is there ever a case in which Scum or a PFK has actions in the daytime? Scum wants us all to believe that they would never sacrifice one of their own. What if Scum knew Fruit was a Cop (this is really reaching as per above comment), knew that Fruit knew that TLD was Scum and that TLD would most certainly be lynched? Dose it not make sense to make him a Scum martyr at that point? I've already stated that I think Chameleon's view of the composition of the scum team is flawed - and now Chameleon is suggesting that the scum also have a cop and investigated Fruit on N1. If that were true, it would be a very over powered scum team. Fruit also stated that he did not vote TLD due to a night action - ie an investigation - so the underlined part is false.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 21, 2013 9:10:56 GMT -5
Day 3 Only one death, so it doesn't appear that we have a vig or sk doing night kills. Sucks that Plankton was a backup cop. He certainly got some heat for his scrutinizing of Colby and Pleo. Since he was a backup, he would have not had an action on N1, so no prior results. I assume this is essentially what SP was - but could only identify alignment and not role. It does bring up the question as to whether or not there is another cop who can only discover alignment or if Fruit was only an alignment cop, or if that's all SP could do as the backup cop. And had SP graduated to full Cop when Fruit was killed? How is Scum finding our Town Power roles so easily? Is this game full of cops/trackers/watchers on both sides or something? Now to go back and look more closely at what Suburban P has been saying. Sisc already that Fruit was an alignment cop, so Plankton would have been his backup. As for the part I've underlined - you think there is a backup to the backup? a third alignment cop? Patricia claims to have tracked Plankton last night to Chameleon. Patricia's reasons seem to echo Fruit's comments on D2. Patricia's claim tells us nothing about Chameleon, yet Chameleon's response seems disproportionate - what is Plankton were still alive? what if someone else got the results (certainly been a few games like this) and Chameleon claims vanilla. This just seems an OTT reaction. Chameleon's behaviour doesn't seem particularly scummy, but I find myself questioning whether she is PFK and the "poisoner" that she has suggested. It would certainly explain her knee jerk reaction to being investigated, her thoughts on there being a 3rd alignment cop and her hostility to a tracker. And on that point - is anyone feeling sleepy today?
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Meeko on Oct 21, 2013 9:22:59 GMT -5
That awkward moment when you don't have a good read on anyone.....
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Post by BillMc on Oct 21, 2013 10:16:19 GMT -5
Dizzy, you are obviously not a Vanilla Town but are you scum? You could be a Town power role and didn't bother to read the rules which gave a sample Town PM. With this information are you still going to keep your vote where it is? Your main case on him isn't a case anymore. Yes, it appears Dizzy is not vanilla town. Pleo got me in Story's game as I hadn't read the vanilla PM.
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 21, 2013 12:23:41 GMT -5
I'm still catching up, but I wanted to put in my vote counts to help me think.
Final Day One Vote Count
With these votes, swammerdami was lynched.
swammerdami has 5 votes from swammerdami (53), gnarlycharlie (54), Mahaloth (73-95), Meeko (86), silverjan (93-166), FruitAndGarbage (98-127), TheLastDays (108), patricia (109). FruitAndGarbage has 4 votes from Pleonast (37), swammerdami (53-105), silverjan (60), Mahaloth (73), xArchangelx (124). patricia has 4 votes from swammerdami (53), Suburban Plankton (115), Pleonast (116), Idle Thoughts (131). Pleonast has 4 votes from swammerdami (53), gnarlycharlie (54), TheLastDays (55-55), TheLastDays (56), Mahaloth (73). Suburban Plankton has 3 votes from swammerdami (53-132), xArchangelx (124), Idle Thoughts (139), silverjan (166). Colby11 has 2 votes from swammerdami (53-105), Suburban Plankton (119), TheLastDays (147). dizzymrslizzy has 2 votes from swammerdami (53-105), silverjan (83), patricia (162). Mahaloth has 2 votes from swammerdami (53-105), Pleonast (89), FruitAndGarbage (127). TheLastDays has 2 votes from swammerdami (53), FruitAndGarbage (98). BillMc has 1 vote from swammerdami (53-105), patricia (160). Chameleon has 1 vote from swammerdami (53). Idle Thoughts has 1 vote from FruitAndGarbage (33-98), Meeko (49-86), swammerdami (53-53), TheLastDays (55-55), TheLastDays (56-108), Suburban Plankton (115-145), swammerdami (132). Meeko has 1 vote from Suburban Plankton (53-105), silverjan (60-91), Mahaloth (71). silverjan has 1 vote from swammerdami (53-105), Pleonast (89). gnarlycharlie has 0 votes from swammerdami (53-105). xArchangelx has no votes. No Lynch has no votes.
BillMc has not voted. Chameleon has not voted. Colby11 has not voted. dizzymrslizzy has not voted. FruitAndGarbage has voted for Idle Thoughts (33-98), TheLastDays (98), swammerdami (98-127), Mahaloth (127). gnarlycharlie has voted for Pleonast (54), swammerdami (54). Idle Thoughts has voted for patricia (131), Suburban Plankton (139). Mahaloth has voted for Meeko (71), FruitAndGarbage (73), Pleonast (73), swammerdami (73-95). Meeko has voted for Idle Thoughts (49-86), swammerdami (86). patricia has voted for swammerdami (109), BillMc (160), dizzymrslizzy (162). Pleonast has voted for FruitAndGarbage (37), silverjan (89), Mahaloth (89), patricia (116). silverjan has voted for FruitAndGarbage (60), Meeko (60-91), dizzymrslizzy (83), swammerdami (93-166), Suburban Plankton (166). Suburban Plankton has voted for Meeko (53-105), Idle Thoughts (115-145), patricia (115), Colby11 (119). swammerdami has voted for BillMc (53-105), Chameleon (53), Colby11 (53-105), FruitAndGarbage (53-105), gnarlycharlie (53-105), Idle Thoughts (53-53), silverjan (53-105), TheLastDays (53), dizzymrslizzy (53-105), Mahaloth (53-105), patricia (53), Pleonast (53), Suburban Plankton (53-132), swammerdami (53), Idle Thoughts (132). TheLastDays has voted for Idle Thoughts (55-55), Pleonast (55-55), Idle Thoughts (56-108), Pleonast (56), swammerdami (108), Colby11 (147). xArchangelx has voted for FruitAndGarbage (124), Suburban Plankton (124).
Final Day Two Vote Count
With these votes, TheLastDays was lynched.
TheLastDays has 10 votes from FruitAndGarbage (12-90), patricia (22), dizzymrslizzy (31), silverjan (39), Colby11 (44), Chameleon (45), Pleonast (58), BillMc (62), Suburban Plankton (68), Mahaloth (75), xArchangelx (98). FruitAndGarbage has 4 votes from Pleonast (8), TheLastDays (20), Suburban Plankton (21), silverjan (24), Chameleon (79-92). Colby11 has 3 votes from Suburban Plankton (21), Meeko (41), gnarlycharlie (83). patricia has 3 votes from Pleonast (9-89), Suburban Plankton (21), Meeko (41), Chameleon (69). Suburban Plankton has 2 votes from FruitAndGarbage (35), xArchangelx (98). dizzymrslizzy has 1 vote from Meeko (41). gnarlycharlie has 1 vote from Colby11 (82). Meeko has 1 vote from Pleonast (56). Pleonast has 1 vote from Meeko (41). BillMc has no votes. Chameleon has no votes. Mahaloth has no votes. silverjan has no votes. xArchangelx has no votes. No Lynch has no votes.
BillMc has voted for TheLastDays (62). Chameleon has voted for TheLastDays (45), patricia (69), FruitAndGarbage (79-92). Colby11 has voted for TheLastDays (44), gnarlycharlie (82). dizzymrslizzy has voted for TheLastDays (31). FruitAndGarbage has voted for TheLastDays (12-90), Suburban Plankton (35). gnarlycharlie has voted for Colby11 (83). Mahaloth has voted for TheLastDays (75). Meeko has voted for Colby11 (41), dizzymrslizzy (41), patricia (41), Pleonast (41). patricia has voted for TheLastDays (22). Pleonast has voted for FruitAndGarbage (8), patricia (9-89), Meeko (56), TheLastDays (58). silverjan has voted for FruitAndGarbage (24), TheLastDays (39). Suburban Plankton has voted for Colby11 (21), FruitAndGarbage (21), patricia (21), TheLastDays (68). TheLastDays has voted for FruitAndGarbage (20). xArchangelx has voted for TheLastDays (98), Suburban Plankton (98).
Town Third Party Scum
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 21, 2013 15:08:09 GMT -5
Vote: DizzyMrslizzy
First of all she pinged me on D1 for the lack of substance to her posts and I see she didn't vote at all on D1. On D2 she voted for TLD and that was only after Patricia posted her tracking results. Today she has a vote on Chameleon and one of her reasons for voting for him is that he didn't post his whole PM which is incorrect if he is telling the truth about being Vanilla Town.
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 21, 2013 15:29:36 GMT -5
I'm sure at least one of us did. Anyone care to confirm that? The only one who knew Fruit was a goner before tonight was the player who killed him - so sure, if you want to let the rest of us know who you are that would be great! I don't like this. I think it shows too much certainty that the killer is not scum. Finally, that's your WHOLE PM? Looks like there is at least one piece missing. You left out your role? Are you a Vanilla? Do you have a role? You just outed yourself as not vanilla. That's make you a prime target for the next scum kill. If you have any information worth passing on to the rest of us, please do so before the end of the Day. Vote: Patricia - for my previous suspicions of her and for her trying to make me appear suspicious because of my suspicions of her. Also because I'm still thinking Town seems investigative-type role heavy ( Fruit and SP) and that a Scum tracker could be a balancing feature. And she only voted for TLD. Vote: Dizzymrslizzy - for being so defensive of Patricia and supporting her lead in making me appear suspicious - and my voting theory (she also only voted for TLD). You are suspicious because of your suspicion of patricia. We have a claimed power role who's information has resulted in the lynch of scum. While that's no guarantee of their alignment, we'd be extremely stupid to lynch them at this point in the game. Your continued pressure on patricia is anti-town and pro-scum. You deserve every vote you get for it. And lizzy is being pro-town by being defensive of patricia and calling out your suspiciousness. vote Chameleon for apparent information about Fruit's killer, for pressure on patricia, and for two anti-town votes on pat and liz. Chameleon's assertion that it was a poisoner and that the poisoner was scum implies that the scum team is pretty powerful - unstoppable kill + delayed kill/poisoner + godfather (Chameleon's other assertion that Patricia bussed TLD would require Patricia to be a godfather otherwise any investigation would reveal her as scum.) This means that be the end of N2, the scum could have had 3 kills, against the town's 2 lynches. This seems imbalanced. I'd appreciate Pleo's thoughts on the balance. It's extremely difficult to judge town-vs-scum balance without spoiled information. Scum could be loaded with power roles and it could still be balanced by appropriately powered town. And in reverse as well. Once we've had reveals and claims from a large fraction of the players, we can start making provisional balance estimates. No honest way to do it now. Well except for a nominal guess of 16 players means typically 12 town vs 4 scum. Variations are not uncommon though. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Okay, looking through my vote counts for anything. In order of suspicion from high to low: vote xArchangelx for two late votes on Day One and no others, and a late vote on Last an no one else. vote BillMc for no vote on Day One, and a late vote on Last and no one else. vote Mahaloth for a late vote on Last. vote Meeko for no vote on Last. My Mahaloth and Meeko votes are barely above my threshold of suspicion, so I may drop these votes later, but I wanted to put them on the record.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 17:00:00 GMT -5
You are crazy Chameleon. Please show me where I was defensive of Patricia. In fact I was pretty suspicious of Patricia before she posted her tracking results. After she posted her results which lead to a killer, I believe her claim. I think it would be pretty ballsy for Patricia to out a strongman teammate, and I don't think that's what happened here at all. And then you think a 3rd scum jumped right on it? Really? Do you really think Scum is that oblivious? Where I have said ANYTHING to make you look suspicious, other than getting an off ping from you which looks like I'm far from the only one to feel that. And why Yes I only voted for TLD. I was quite confident in that vote, and guess what it was the right move! Finally, that's your WHOLE PM? Looks like there is at least one piece missing. You left out your role? Are you a Vanilla? Do you have a role? Vote: ChameleonI am absolutely crazy, you are 100% right about that I could have sworn you posted more than once about finding me suspicious, but now I can only find the one post in the Night 2 thread. Perhaps I was a little over-zealous or got you confused with Silverjan. Sorry. I don't think Scum is oblivious at all. I think they are attempting a very clever, and risky, scheme based on buying Town credibility. If I'm right it's working pretty well so far, no? I'm not saying it wasn't right to vote for TLD, what I'm saying is that I think Scum would have avoided voting for Fruit in order to not appear Scummy because they knew he would flip Town, and they knew he was going to die. And Scum voting for TLD, if they decided to sacrifice him (CRAZY, I know!), makes total sense. Obviously others have beat me to pointing out that you aren't paying attention to the role PMs - a sample of a vanilla PM is posted in the rules thread. That was my entire PM.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 17:19:11 GMT -5
Chameleon, If I felt you were scum I would have tracked you not plankton, Didn't you read my post? all I said was the Plankton visited you - Therefore Plankton must have had a reason not me. Since I know I not scum, I have found your posts funny because I know how off base they are and I don't see town lynching me. What I'm worried about is why scum didn't kill me last night. I guess the only options are a) I was protected or b) they think they can get me lynched today or tomorrow. This is what I think. You were pretty vocal about thinking I'm scum and that I outed a fellow scum day one without any pressure! If I'm scum this is a win win for my side as they know we are both townies, and we are doing the dirty work for them. If people follow your lead and lynch me scum has gotten rid of the town tracker. If we lynch you today due to the fact that plankton visited you last night and you are town (as I believe you are) then they have gotten a mislynch and I would be the best choice for the next lynch. So that would be two townies mislynched. So I say let look elsewhere for scum at least for today. I was attempting to be pro-active. I wanted to get on top of the idea that you might be trying to frame me before you framed me, if that makes sense (which apparently, I don't). Well, there is another reason as to why Scum might not have killed you: c) if you're _ _ _ _ (I'll let you fill it in ). But I guess you wouldn't consider that since you know you're not Scum. Ummm, is this a typo or a slip? I know picking apart errors isn't always fair, but sometimes they are slips and not errors. I am very touched that you believe I'm Town...or do you know it? No, really, I am impressed that you have addressed my accusations with such grace and it makes me feel bad to make said accusations. Unfortunately they've lodged themselves in my noggin' and I can't get them out. That said, I am sufficiently worried that I am wrong that I may unvote you for fear of mislynching a Town power. And also to try and prevent my own mislynch. I will do that if I decide to after I address the rest of the comments directed towards me so far.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 17:41:31 GMT -5
Catching up from Day 2 These posts from Chameleon ping me On one had, Chameleon is accusing Patricia of bussing a fellow scum - but on the other saying that TLD is irrelevant to town's success - especially since subsequently TLD flipped scum. Patricia, how convenient to hand us someone who is irrelevant to Town's success but preserves Scum. Vote: Patricia Perhaps I worded this poorly. I said this on Day 2, before we knew TLD was Scum and could only go on his word that he was 3rd party - in which case his lynch would have been irrelevant to Town. And I apologize ahead of time but I have to deal with these separately as I seem to be having a problem making the quotes appear correctly.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 17:46:27 GMT -5
Chameleon seems happy to lynch Patricia, TLD or Fruit Vote: FruitAndGarbage - to be fair as I already have a vote on Patricia - until I can figure out who seems more scumlicious. Then backs off Fruit as it seems Chameleon expected something to happen I'm curious to find out what happens naturally without a lynch interfering. Unvote: FruitAndGarbage Weren't we all expecting something to happen? I felt that either Patricia or Fruit was suspicious, so I put a vote on both of them to see what their responses were. I later remembered that Fruit said he was sleepy so I thought that should play out since it might give us information about a player or role in the game.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 21, 2013 17:59:25 GMT -5
Chameleon, are you vanilla? Or a mason(the "bretheren" portion)?
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 21, 2013 18:00:05 GMT -5
I'm throwing a vote out early.
Vote Meeko for his pointless post about not having a read. Pressure to speak, perhaps?
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 18:10:12 GMT -5
This caught my eye in light of her post at the end of D2. The only one who knew Fruit was a goner before tonight was the player who killed him - so sure, if you want to let the rest of us know who you are that would be great! Ok, so I need to correct myself here. If Fruit was killed by Scum then all of Scum knew he would die. But we don't know for sure it was Scum although I suspect it was. Chameleon's assertion that it was a poisoner and that the poisoner was scum implies that the scum team is pretty powerful - unstoppable kill + delayed kill/poisoner + godfather (Chameleon's other assertion that Patricia bussed TLD would require Patricia to be a godfather otherwise any investigation would reveal her as scum.) This means that be the end of N2, the scum could have had 3 kills, against the town's 2 lynches. This seems imbalanced. I'd appreciate Pleo's thoughts on the balance. I think it is more likely Fruit was killed by a pfk or possibly town - e.g. in story's recent game the poisoner was town. Sorry, I responded to your previous post and should have waited as you have noticed here that I corrected myself in the second quote. I believe the part of TLD's role claim that he was a one-off kill - it's apparently not unusual to have a Strongman who can only kill once - this controls the power of the unstoppable kill. It's kind of funny that you mention Patricia as a potential Godfather because I was actually thinking it was a possibility. Maybe I'm missing something but how could Scum have had 3 kills at the end of N2 based on this? Ok, if you presume that the Strongman had more than one kill then yes, it's possible - I don't think he did though. I know anything is possible, but from the Mafia Wiki it says that Poisoners are more likely anti-Town. And you're right, much of my voting/Town cred theory is based on the potential Poisoner being Scum and not PFK. I can't argue with you there.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 18:26:50 GMT -5
It's important to keep in mind that if Fruit was killed by Scum then during Day 2 all of Scum knew he was going to die on Night 2. This invariably would have had an effect on their comments and actions on Day 2 (no need for lynching him for example). TLD's vote on Fruit was entirely safe - TLD knew he was likely going to be lynched and flip Scum, and knew that Fruit was going to die and flip not Scum (or possibly Scum knew he was the Town Cop, somehow, although I'm not sure how since he would have been poisoned on Night 1). So who else voted for Fruit - Pleo, Suburban Plankton and SilverJan. Why would any Scum besides TLD vote for him knowing a) that he was going to die anyway, and b) that he would flip Town (most likely) or 3rd party. So I'm not thinking they seem all that suspicious at the moment, even though they voted for a Townie. Then again that could be what they want me to think - but not going to worry about that for now. I'm going to guess there's at least some Scum in the TLD voters (for Town credibility). So, removing the Fruit voters, they are - Patricia, Dizzy, Colby, Chameleon, Bill, and Mahaloth. And of course I crossed me off that list . Your argument is that anyone who voted fruit can't be scum because if the poisoner was scum they knew he was going to die? I would have to disagree with the assumption that scum would not have voted fruit 1) all the votes for Fruit (except Jan and Chameleons) were prior to Patricia naming TLD - ie you are smudging everyone who accepted Patricia's information 2) If the scum knew fruit was likely to die of poisoning they would not vote for him? but this is a multivote game and they could have voted for both. Why would I think Scum voted for Fruit considering what my theory is? If I'm right about Fruit being killed by Scum (it's not definite - I did say "if" - but we have to decide to believe something) then they did know he would die - so no reason to vote for a lynch - but more importantly, why vote for him to make yourself seem suspicious when you can not have voted for the assassinated Townie instead? The fact that it's a multivote game is irrelevant to my point. I really feel that maybe I'm just not explaining myself well enough. I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around your first point. I think my brain is too tired at the moment - but I think my above point might explain it.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 18:41:20 GMT -5
If the Strongman only had a one shot power then TLD's was already used and he was no longer a power. Add to that the running suspicion on TLD with so many voting for him. If it seemed inevitable that he would be a casualty then why not use it to buy Town credibility? I'm by no means sold on it, but it's what came to mind - I really don't understand why it seems so far fetched. I haven't voted for anyone yet because I want to hear what people have to say about this idea. So Chameleon is assuming the scum used TLD's power N1 to kill Idle, which is a change from her earlier position in D2.11 that she thought Idle was an odd choice for scum kill. The problem I have with the underlined part is that the vote count was 3 to 1 in favour of Fruit when Patricia revealed her information on TLD. TLD had a single vote on him (Fruit's) and it was inevitable at that point that TLD would be lynched so Patricia chose to bus him and save Fruit? Does anyone think that whoever killed Fruit knew he was the Town Cop or did they just get lucky? It probably wouldn't be possible with night actions only since he was sleepy on Night 1 and there were no actions Night Zero. He didn't really do any magic bagging that I remember until Day 2, after he was poisoned (or whatever was done to him). Is there ever a case in which Scum or a PFK has actions in the daytime? Scum wants us all to believe that they would never sacrifice one of their own. What if Scum knew Fruit was a Cop (this is really reaching as per above comment), knew that Fruit knew that TLD was Scum and that TLD would most certainly be lynched? Dose it not make sense to make him a Scum martyr at that point? I've already stated that I think Chameleon's view of the composition of the scum team is flawed - and now Chameleon is suggesting that the scum also have a cop and investigated Fruit on N1. If that were true, it would be a very over powered scum team. Fruit also stated that he did not vote TLD due to a night action - ie an investigation - so the underlined part is false. Sorry, I don't want to keep having separate posts, but I don't have the patience to figure out how to break up the quotes properly at the moment. As for your first point - fair enough, I am making a lot of assumptions there and perhaps I need to go back and look at the order and times of the votes. As for your second point - no, I'm not trying to say that Scum have a cop. I actually said it would have been extremely unlikely that Scum knew Fruit was a Cop unless they have day actions - it's a "what if". I am not saying this as a definite so don't try to say I'm lying - I think I made it pretty clear that it was hypothetical thought.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 18:55:29 GMT -5
I assume this is essentially what SP was - but could only identify alignment and not role. It does bring up the question as to whether or not there is another cop who can only discover alignment or if Fruit was only an alignment cop, or if that's all SP could do as the backup cop. And had SP graduated to full Cop when Fruit was killed? How is Scum finding our Town Power roles so easily? Is this game full of cops/trackers/watchers on both sides or something? Sisc already that Fruit was an alignment cop, so Plankton would have been his backup. As for the part I've underlined - you think there is a backup to the backup? a third alignment cop? Patricia claims to have tracked Plankton last night to Chameleon. Patricia's reasons seem to echo Fruit's comments on D2. Patricia's claim tells us nothing about Chameleon, yet Chameleon's response seems disproportionate - what is Plankton were still alive? what if someone else got the results (certainly been a few games like this) and Chameleon claims vanilla. This just seems an OTT reaction. Chameleon's behaviour doesn't seem particularly scummy, but I find myself questioning whether she is PFK and the "poisoner" that she has suggested. It would certainly explain her knee jerk reaction to being investigated, her thoughts on there being a 3rd alignment cop and her hostility to a tracker. No, I'm not saying I think there's a third Cop. I didn't go back and look at what SisC said about Fruit and I should have. If Fruit was specifically an Alignment Cop then yes, SP would have been his backup. This also answers your other point - because I didn't remember that Fruit was an Alignment Cop I found it confusing that his backup would be alignment only. I apologize for my confusion there. Maybe over the top to you, but it seems pro-active to me (as I explained in my response to Patricia). Do we seriously think that there isn't a poisoner in this game? Doesn't it seem obvious or am I missing something? I have no problem being investigated and really wished SP survived so he could confirm my alignment (if in fact he did investigate me - remember I'm crazy and think that maybe Patricia was trying to set me up). And again, I don't think there's a 3rd Alignment Cop. And why wouldn't I feel hostile towards a Tracker (or anyone) if I'm suspicious that they might be Scum? I admit that my theory is out there - but it's the first thing that came to mind. I do over think things so perhaps my idea is more complex than what is likely to be the case - but it feels right to me. I am open to being presented with other ideas, but at least mine got people talking.
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Post by Chameleon on Oct 21, 2013 19:10:05 GMT -5
The only one who knew Fruit was a goner before tonight was the player who killed him - so sure, if you want to let the rest of us know who you are that would be great! I don't like this. I think it shows too much certainty that the killer is not scum. Vote: Patricia - for my previous suspicions of her and for her trying to make me appear suspicious because of my suspicions of her. Also because I'm still thinking Town seems investigative-type role heavy ( Fruit and SP) and that a Scum tracker could be a balancing feature. And she only voted for TLD. Vote: Dizzymrslizzy - for being so defensive of Patricia and supporting her lead in making me appear suspicious - and my voting theory (she also only voted for TLD). You are suspicious because of your suspicion of patricia. We have a claimed power role who's information has resulted in the lynch of scum. While that's no guarantee of their alignment, we'd be extremely stupid to lynch them at this point in the game. Your continued pressure on patricia is anti-town and pro-scum. You deserve every vote you get for it. And lizzy is being pro-town by being defensive of patricia and calling out your suspiciousness. vote Chameleon for apparent information about Fruit's killer, for pressure on patricia, and for two anti-town votes on pat and liz. As for your first point - I corrected myself here (before anyone said anything about it) because in re-reading I realized that I was forgetting half of what I wanted to say. I actually think Fruit was more likely killed by Scum and that all of Scum knew he was going to die. I addressed this correction in my responses to Bill. So your first point for voting for me is based on not reading or not remembering all my comments and not acknowledging my correction. As for your other points - fair enough. I really do believe that TLD was martyred and I accept that no one agrees with me. I do think Lizzy is still suspicious for accusing me of leaving something out of my role PM when she clearly didn't compare it to the sample in the rules.
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