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Post by Chameleon on Oct 31, 2013 1:49:16 GMT -5
There's a lot to go over here so I'll just say a couple of brief things and come back to it while I'm at work tomorrow night (there usually isn't much to do). First I want to say that it's really frustrating to be leading the lynch once again when many people believe I'm Town. The only good reasons people seem to have for voting for me are outdated. I've addressed most of the issues brought up and changed my mind and my votes in regards to some of those issues. Yet that doesn't seem to matter because when I was the ONLY player actually looking for Scum some of you didn't like my ideas about it and you can't let go of the things I have let go of for now (yet are still being held against me). Ya, makes sense. Second, why would Scum give up a night kill by putting everyone to sleep? If Dizzy is being truthful about her "spells" then I can't imagine she's Scum. That doesn't make any sense. You also. What's more important to you, avoiding votes or finding scum? I'll answer my own question: I want to find scum. That often means collecting votes. And even being mislynched. But that doesn't matter because town has numbers to spare. Finding scum and making good cases far outweighs that. When a townie gets mislynched, they should've left us something useful we'll know is townie-motivated. Fair enough. I enjoy playing so I don't want to get lynched, but I also feel there are different legitimate theories as to how to play and I think Town should try to prevent their mislynching (the more vanilla there are the more likely Scum won't hit a power with their kill). That said, my statements are more to defend myself against accusations of being Scummy, not to stay in the game. All you would gain from my death at the moment is a confirmation that I'm Town, and though I appreciate why that's a valuable sacrifice, it would be much better for Scum to waste a kill on me than for Town to mislynch me. Anyway, that's what makes sense to me now - it may not tomorrow.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Oct 31, 2013 7:36:33 GMT -5
You know what...
Vote: Mahaloth
I don't believe you are a Town Scotsman. I think you are scum! I'm going back to my suspicion on you. A few things have happened, and instead of commenting on them, you are just randomly voting on things that you choose to not even vocalize.
You don't sit right with me at all.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 31, 2013 9:47:49 GMT -5
xarchangelx (4,4): Pleonast [6]; dizzymrslizzy [18]; BillMc [34]; Mahaloth [60]
Colby11 (3,4): dizzymrslizzy [27]; silverjan [43]; xarchangelx [58,79]; BillMc [69] Chameleon (3,3): gnarlycharlie [4]; Pleonast [6]; xarchangelx [31] silverjan (3,3): gnarlycharlie [4]; Pleonast [10]; Colby11 [23] Meeko (3,3): Pleonast [6]; Mahaloth [61]; BillMc [71] gnarlycharlie (3,3): silverjan [8]; Mahaloth [61]; BillMc [71]
BillMc (2,2): Pleonast [6]; xarchangelx [31] Pleonast (2,2): Meeko [28]; Mahaloth [61] Mahaloth (2,2): Pleonast [6]; dizzymrslizzy [91]
dizzymrslizzy (1,1): Mahaloth [61]
With these votes, archangel will be lynched.
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 31, 2013 9:56:35 GMT -5
My votes, except for archangel, are for voting chameleon, whose claim I believe. I read this to mean that the people you are voting are voting for Chameleon, except for Archangel. And that's a 100% wrong statement. Archangel IS voting Chameleon And I am not. So please explain your vote on me. And this is why it's better to put a complete explanation of your votes as you are voting. Mahaloth is voting for arch because they are "flying along with minimal participation". Mahaloth is voting for Meeko, Pleo, Gnarly and dizzy because of the same reason they voted for them YesterDay: we all voted for Chameleon. Nothing to do with how anyone is voting ToDay. I don't think Mahaloth is town, so I hope they keep playing this sloppy. The entire I'm voting you today because of what you did some time in the distant past, based on a hunch (or scheme) is completely wrong. And for once, that will suffice for me. I'm not following your logic here. Someone who was scum on Day One is still scum now on Day Four. So any evidence of scumminess discovered on Day One is just as valid as any evidence found now. I enjoy playing so I don't want to get lynched, Don't let your ego (or is it id? I can never remember) get in the way of winning the game. but I also feel there are different legitimate theories as to how to play and I think Town should try to prevent their mislynching (the more vanilla there are the more likely Scum won't hit a power with their kill). I agree with this completely. The difference we have is that complaining how the votes on oneself are wrong doesn't actually reduce one's chance of being lynched. The best defense against being lynched is doing townie things, like voting and making cases. All you would gain from my death at the moment is a confirmation that I'm Town, Please make useful cases against other players, then, so we do have something more.
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Post by xarchangelx on Oct 31, 2013 11:39:33 GMT -5
Since I'm the one who is likely going down tomorrow, I would like to point out for after I'm dead that Chameleon was going to apparently be the lynch leader, there is some defense of her, and the vote has swung to me without any defense.
Also,
Vote: Mahaloth
I feel like he's scum but I always feel like he's scum. I wasn't voting him because I have seen very few scum Scotsmen, but I read Pleo's comments about the balance, and if DizzyMrsLizzy is telling the truth, this game would appear to be better balanced with a scum Scotsman than a town Scotsman.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 31, 2013 13:00:48 GMT -5
Updated vote count: xarchangelx (4,4): Pleonast [6]; dizzymrslizzy [18]; BillMc [34]; Mahaloth [60]
Colby11 (3,4): dizzymrslizzy [27]; silverjan [43]; xarchangelx [58,79]; BillMc [69] Chameleon (3,3): gnarlycharlie [4]; Pleonast [6]; xarchangelx [31] silverjan (3,3): gnarlycharlie [4]; Pleonast [10]; Colby11 [23] Meeko (3,3): Pleonast [6]; Mahaloth [61]; BillMc [71] Mahaloth (3,3): Pleonast [6]; dizzymrslizzy [91]; xarchangelx [94] gnarlycharlie (3,3): silverjan [8]; Mahaloth [61]; BillMc [71]
BillMc (2,2): Pleonast [6]; xarchangelx [31] Pleonast (2,2): Meeko [28]; Mahaloth [61]
dizzymrslizzy (1,1): Mahaloth [61]
With these votes, archangel will be lynched.
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Post by patricia on Oct 31, 2013 14:39:59 GMT -5
So here's our player List: The Living: 1. gnarlycharlie 2. Colby11 4. BillMc 6. xArchangelx 7. dizzymrslizzy 8. Chameleon - Claimed Vanilla Town 10. silverjan - Claimed Vanilla Town 11. Mahaloth - Claimed Town Scotsman 12. patricia - Claimed Town Tracker 14. Pleonast 15. Meeko If we believe all of the claims....Then we have a 2/6 chance of catching scum. And yes, officially from the Mod there are 9 Town players, and 2 Non-Town players remaining in the game. And my bag of tricks is thusly empty. So I'd like to hear from the other 6 as to why we should believe that you aren't scum? In as much as I would love to believe we only have two scum left that would mean we started with only three scum which I not complaining about but that seems small for a game of this size. I see two ways to view this A. The above information is false and Mrs Lizzy needs to be lynched or B. This is true and we need to find two scums. For now I believe Mrs Lizzy for two reasons - part of her claimed spells seems true as I was blocked last night and no one died last night and two she had no reason to give us this information except as a help to town. So if we start with this information I see a problem with Mahaloth Claim - would town have a Scotsman against only three scum maybe not Vote: Mahaloth This information also makes me rethink about how Chameleon was making a case that the scum set up Last Days and I was scum trying to gain town credit - At the time I was willing to just post my PM and let it blow over as I knew she was off base but she did have a point that a strong scum team may have done that but in light of the new information of a small scum team (No way they would give up one of three only) It may be possible that the Scum having one caught so early may try to use that as a way to look like they are scum hunting? maybe for now I'm not voting Chameleon but if we don't have a good scum read tomorrow this may be worth looking into As for the case of Xarchangelx is it mostly based on low post counts? I haven't played with her before is that her usually MO? not worth a vote ATM Now for ever confusing Meeko Him and I go round and round and in most games at some point I feel he is scum we are at the point now Vote: Meeko mostly on my gut feelings
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 31, 2013 15:44:23 GMT -5
Vote: Mahaloth
With Dizzy's information it does look a bit in favour of Town as someone else said, and I think it more likey that Mahaloth would be a scum Scotsman rather than Town and that evens things out more. I also don't like his votes today, he isn't making it easy to see his cases on anyone and can you imagine when we get to D5 and have to look things up again.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 31, 2013 18:13:42 GMT -5
You are all making excellent points. Now that I re-think it, I kind of do believe Dizzy's claim and I do think dizzy is town.
I am a town scotsman, though, so perhaps the game is balanced against scum. Of course, my death would help establish this for sure for you all, so perhaps it isn't an entirely bad thing?
Unvote dizzy
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Meeko on Oct 31, 2013 23:46:59 GMT -5
I read this to mean that the people you are voting are voting for Chameleon, except for Archangel. And that's a 100% wrong statement. Archangel IS voting Chameleon And I am not. So please explain your vote on me. And this is why it's better to put a complete explanation of your votes as you are voting. Mahaloth is voting for arch because they are "flying along with minimal participation". Mahaloth is voting for Meeko, Pleo, Gnarly and dizzy because of the same reason they voted for them YesterDay: we all voted for Chameleon. Nothing to do with how anyone is voting ToDay. I don't think Mahaloth is town, so I hope they keep playing this sloppy. The entire I'm voting you today because of what you did some time in the distant past, based on a hunch (or scheme) is completely wrong. And for once, that will suffice for me. I'm not following your logic here. Someone who was scum on Day One is still scum now on Day Four. So any evidence of scumminess discovered on Day One is just as valid as any evidence found now. I enjoy playing so I don't want to get lynched, Don't let your ego (or is it id? I can never remember) get in the way of winning the game. but I also feel there are different legitimate theories as to how to play and I think Town should try to prevent their mislynching (the more vanilla there are the more likely Scum won't hit a power with their kill). I agree with this completely. The difference we have is that complaining how the votes on oneself are wrong doesn't actually reduce one's chance of being lynched. The best defense against being lynched is doing townie things, like voting and making cases. All you would gain from my death at the moment is a confirmation that I'm Town, Please make useful cases against other players, then, so we do have something more. You assume everyone starts the game as scum with this perspective.
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Post by Chameleon on Nov 1, 2013 2:36:58 GMT -5
This information also makes me rethink about how Chameleon was making a case that the scum set up Last Days and I was scum trying to gain town credit - At the time I was willing to just post my PM and let it blow over as I knew she was off base but she did have a point that a strong scum team may have done that but in light of the new information of a small scum team (No way they would give up one of three only) It may be possible that the Scum having one caught so early may try to use that as a way to look like they are scum hunting? maybe for now I'm not voting Chameleon but if we don't have a good scum read tomorrow this may be worth looking into Just because a Scum team is small doesn't mean they're not strong. We have no idea what the (possibly) two remaining Scum are capable of. I pointed out before that they seemed to be having a great deal of "luck" rooting out our investigators before we could really even benefit from them. It would seem that they must have some sort of investigative powers, and who knows what else? What if they can use actions during the Day? There are a lot of reasons a Scum team of only three could be very strong and I still believe it's entirely possible that they would bus their weakest member to gain Town credibility. I'm almost reluctant to give my thoughts since when I did before it almost got me lynched, but hell, might at well. I am still very suspicious of Patricia, somewhat rekindled by her recent post as well as her very careful, periodically minimal, play. She has claimed to have an investigative-like power and we already know Town had 2. I think it's completely reasonable that Scum would have one as well. She totally laid off me with my initial suspicions of her but now is subtly reintroducing the idea that I might be suspicious. I can understand that since she's merely reciprocating suspicions - fair enough (especially if I'm wrong). In as much as I would love to believe we only have two scum left that would mean we started with only three scum which I not complaining about but that seems small for a game of this size. I see two ways to view this A. The above information is false and Mrs Lizzy needs to be lynched or B. This is true and we need to find two scums. For now I believe Mrs Lizzy for two reasons - part of her claimed spells seems true as I was blocked last night and no one died last night and two she had no reason to give us this information except as a help to town. I agree that only three Scum seems like a small team, but see my above comments. There is also the possibility that there is a Godfather which Lizzy's power could not identify. There are more ways to view Lizzy's claim than your A and B. First there could be 3 Scum if there's a Godfather (this idea was mentioned but seems to have been dropped by some - perhaps those who want Town to believe there isn't one). Lizzy's information could be partially true and partially false. What if her unidentified one-off spell is to poison someone? I think it's a reasonable question since the poisoning did appear to be a one-time only thing and she's full of one-time only spells, and she has left it out of her claim. But I still can't imagine why Scum would throw away their night kill so I think it's a long-shot. That said, I'm crazy and I still think it's possible they bussed one of their own so who knows? What if Scum didn't do anything last night? Patricia, did you actually get a message that explicitly said you were blocked (sorry if you've already answered this, I can't remember)? And here's a really super-insane thought - what if Patricia and Lizzy are working in tandem to create a Town credibility wall to protect themselves while Town continue to mislynch one another? It is brazen and ballsy and it's an idea that's really out there - but also appears to be working in the slim case that it's true. This works if Scum decided to do nothing and have Lizzy claim she put everyone to sleep and Patricia claim to have been blocked. I mean who wouldn't believe that?!? I know there's not a lot to support my idea, but it's what my gut is telling me and it's all I have to offer right now. As far as Patricia's votes go - they're pretty safe. There's a mini-bandwagon against Mahaloth, and Meeko's play has just been "unusual", and neither will likely be lynched today. So here is my very unsafe vote: Vote: PatriciaLynch me if you will, but Pleo encouraged me to put forth my ideas as opposed to playing safe and it's all I have. The votes are all over the place today, I'm sure to Scum's delight, so there's another reason to go against the grain. And I should mention I'm not voting for Lizzy because I still think she may be telling the truth and Patricia could easily be working with someone else.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Nov 1, 2013 7:57:59 GMT -5
FWIW, Chameleon. I can get behind a Patricia is a scum tracker vs a Town tracker. I think it's telling that she's still alive after a number of days (aside from last night). There's a bit of wine sitting in front of me on that one. But not knowing who they attacked last night (My fault I know) I'm giving her a little more grace than normal.
I guess we'll see what happens tonight. Are Scum more scared of my 1 time power, or are they scared of Patricia tracking them.
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 1, 2013 9:32:43 GMT -5
With the large number of players near the top of the vote counts, I'm going to reduce my votes to those I'm most suspicious of. Starting with the least suspicious: unvote Meekounvote silverjanunvote BillMcunvote MahalothWhich leaves my votes on Chameleon and archangel. You assume everyone starts the game as scum with this perspective. No, my perspective is I don't ignore evidence from earlier in the game. Especially voting records, which become progressively more useful as we discover the alignments of more players.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 1, 2013 9:41:57 GMT -5
Mahaloth (4,5): Pleonast [6,102]; dizzymrslizzy [91]; xarchangelx [94]; patricia [96]; silverjan [97] xarchangelx (4,4): Pleonast [6]; dizzymrslizzy [18]; BillMc [34]; Mahaloth [60]
Meeko (3,4): Pleonast [6,102]; Mahaloth [61]; BillMc [71]; patricia [96] Colby11 (3,4): dizzymrslizzy [27]; silverjan [43]; xarchangelx [58,79]; BillMc [69] Chameleon (3,3): gnarlycharlie [4]; Pleonast [6]; xarchangelx [31] gnarlycharlie (3,3): silverjan [8]; Mahaloth [61]; BillMc [71]
silverjan (2,3): gnarlycharlie [4]; Pleonast [10,102]; Colby11 [23] Pleonast (2,2): Meeko [28]; Mahaloth [61]
BillMc (1,2): Pleonast [6,102]; xarchangelx [31] patricia (1,1): Chameleon [100]
dizzymrslizzy (0,1): Mahaloth [61,98]
With these votes, Mahaloth will be lynched.
ToDay will end in eight hours and twenty or so minutes.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 1, 2013 10:28:54 GMT -5
The quick pileup on Mahaloth bothers me a bit, as does Pleonast's unvote of him. I could unvote Mahaloth and be the front-runner again, and I do think my lynch will tell town a lot. I'd like everyone's opinions on which lynch will give more information, mine or Mahaloth.
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 1, 2013 11:36:32 GMT -5
The quick pileup on Mahaloth bothers me a bit, as does Pleonast's unvote of him. I could unvote Mahaloth and be the front-runner again, and I do think my lynch will tell town a lot. I'd like everyone's opinions on which lynch will give more information, mine or Mahaloth. We gain the most information when every player votes for who they are suspicious of. And it's rather telling that you're asking for our opinions, when most of the game you've been giving us very few of your own.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 1, 2013 13:42:49 GMT -5
The quick pileup on Mahaloth bothers me a bit, as does Pleonast's unvote of him. I could unvote Mahaloth and be the front-runner again, and I do think my lynch will tell town a lot. I'd like everyone's opinions on which lynch will give more information, mine or Mahaloth. We gain the most information when every player votes for who they are suspicious of. And it's rather telling that you're asking for our opinions, when most of the game you've been giving us very few of your own. I give my opinions when I have them. You were the one who suggested we vote for everyone we find suspicious. I have continued to find the same people suspicious, and today I have found more people suspicious. And I find it highly unbelievable that I am most suspicious to you if you are a town player. Unvote: all Unvote:
And, asking that question was because I was trying to get people to say between Mahaloth and I, who they found more scummy.
Vote: BillM Vote: Pleonast
And I still think that Mahaloth could be the third member of the scum team. However, I think town gets more information from my lynch right now so I am not voting him.
(To whomever actually is town: I'm going to flip town. And you're going to get a lot of "well, what did she expect? She has to play better than that" or some such comments. Please do know that BillM knows I play this way when I'm town, and doesn't go after me for it.)
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 1, 2013 13:43:27 GMT -5
Damn it, I don't even know how I did that.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 1, 2013 13:45:14 GMT -5
And I'm still suspicious of Chameleon, for throwing a vote on Patricia when it won't decide the lynch.
In fact,
Vote: Chameleon
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 1, 2013 13:45:42 GMT -5
But, if that puts her in the lead I'm going to unvote her. I think you all need to see my flip at this point.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Nov 1, 2013 13:53:35 GMT -5
IDK what to think. The last minute pile up on Mahaloth is very suspect...
I don't get a town read from your Archangel either though. So it's really a toss up for me. I have votes on both of you and was thinking about pulling my vote on Arch to favor Mahaloth, but the pile on has me concerned.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 1, 2013 14:22:46 GMT -5
If you're town (I think you are at this point), just let me die and see the flip. I think it will make some things clear, though it won't answer the question of Mahaloth.
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Post by Silver Jan on Nov 1, 2013 14:32:31 GMT -5
IDK what to think. The last minute pile up on Mahaloth is very suspect... I don't get a town read from your Archangel either though. So it's really a toss up for me. I have votes on both of you and was thinking about pulling my vote on Arch to favor Mahaloth, but the pile on has me concerned. I think the last minute vote on Mahaloth is cos he looks scummy. He hasn't even tried to put a case down today, he is riding on the fact that we think he's town.
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Post by Silver Jan on Nov 1, 2013 14:33:50 GMT -5
And I'm still suspicious of Chameleon, for throwing a vote on Patricia when it won't decide the lynch. In fact, Vote: Chameleon WHY would Chameleon vote a Town Power?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 1, 2013 14:33:51 GMT -5
xarchangelx (4,4): Pleonast [6]; dizzymrslizzy [18]; BillMc [34]; Mahaloth [60]
Mahaloth (3,5): Pleonast [6,102]; dizzymrslizzy [91]; xarchangelx [94,106]; patricia [96]; silverjan [97] Meeko (3,4): Pleonast [6,102]; Mahaloth [61]; BillMc [71]; patricia [96] Colby11 (3,4): dizzymrslizzy [27]; silverjan [43]; xarchangelx [58,79]; BillMc [69] Chameleon (3,3): gnarlycharlie [4]; Pleonast [6]; xarchangelx [31,106,108] gnarlycharlie (3,3): silverjan [8]; Mahaloth [61]; BillMc [71] Pleonast (3,3): Meeko [28]; Mahaloth [61]; xarchangelx [106]
silverjan (2,3): gnarlycharlie [4]; Pleonast [10,102]; Colby11 [23]
BillMc (1,2): Pleonast [6,102]; xarchangelx [31,106,106] patricia (1,1): Chameleon [100]
dizzymrslizzy (0,1): Mahaloth [61,98]
With these votes, xarchangelx will be lynched.
ToDay will end in about three and one-half hours.
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 1, 2013 14:37:38 GMT -5
To whomever actually is town: I'm going to flip town. And you're going to get a lot of "well, what did she expect? She has to play better than that" or some such comments. Please do know that BillM knows I play this way when I'm town, and doesn't go after me for it. Your behavior in previous games has no bearing on your alignment in this game.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 1, 2013 14:44:33 GMT -5
To whomever actually is town: I'm going to flip town. And you're going to get a lot of "well, what did she expect? She has to play better than that" or some such comments. Please do know that BillM knows I play this way when I'm town, and doesn't go after me for it. Your behavior in previous games has no bearing on your alignment in this game. In a perfect world, that is true. In the real world, I have town tells and scum tells, and BillM knows both of them. Why are you saying this now? If you are town, I don't see this statement as pro-town (you're the one who urged town to be willing to die but to state their suspicions). If you are scum, you know I am going to flip town and may be trying to mitigate damage for your team. Because my words will have more resonance when I flip town.
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Post by Silver Jan on Nov 1, 2013 14:46:03 GMT -5
Chameleon, why are you voting a Townie power, I don't get it
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 1, 2013 14:49:54 GMT -5
In fact,
Vote: xarchangelx
I am putting my vote where my mouth is. I think town needs to see my flip now.
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Post by Silver Jan on Nov 1, 2013 14:50:20 GMT -5
Chameleon, why are you voting a Townie power, I don't get it *hangs head in shame* What the hel are you on about
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