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Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 3, 2013 21:56:58 GMT -5
A quiet night was had by all.
Day Five begins now. It will end at 5 p.m. Pacific on Friday, November 8
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Post by Mahaloth on Nov 3, 2013 22:36:56 GMT -5
Very cool.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Nov 3, 2013 22:51:06 GMT -5
Wow!
For what it's worth, I had NOTHING to do with Night 4 being quiet. But thank you for whoever did!
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Post by Silver Jan on Nov 4, 2013 1:30:34 GMT -5
Very nice.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Nov 4, 2013 2:53:21 GMT -5
no town deaths is always good. has there been some role who chose correctly or have scum been asleep on the wheel?
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Post by BillMc on Nov 4, 2013 6:08:48 GMT -5
Wow - another night with no deaths, that's really going to hurt the scum. Assuming Dizzy's info is correct, we're on D5 and it is 8-2 to town, so we still have 4 mislynches in hand, which seems to heavily favour town.
From a quick skim, it looks like there were a lot of swings in the vote at the end of D4, archangel votes colby, he becomes the lynch leader, she changes her mind, votes mahaloth, mahaloth becomes the lynch leader, votes herself, she becomes the lynch leader, but also votes chameleon. archangel wants to be lynched/commit suicide, but then colby votes chameleon and chameleon is lynched. I need to have a read through and do some more thinking, but for now
Vote: Archangel I'd like to understand why you think you committing suicide is pro-town? You say you don't believe my reasons for not voting on d3; yet you offer no explanation of what you think my motivation would be for not voting. Vote: Colby Vote: Jan You both gave "because she is voting for Patricia" as your reasons for jumping on Chameleon yesterday. I'd like to understand why both of you are certain Patricia is town.
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Post by Silver Jan on Nov 4, 2013 9:19:32 GMT -5
Wow - another night with no deaths, that's really going to hurt the scum. Assuming Dizzy's info is correct, we're on D5 and it is 8-2 to town, so we still have 4 mislynches in hand, which seems to heavily favour town. From a quick skim, it looks like there were a lot of swings in the vote at the end of D4, archangel votes colby, he becomes the lynch leader, she changes her mind, votes mahaloth, mahaloth becomes the lynch leader, votes herself, she becomes the lynch leader, but also votes chameleon. archangel wants to be lynched/commit suicide, but then colby votes chameleon and chameleon is lynched. I need to have a read through and do some more thinking, but for now Vote: Archangel I'd like to understand why you think you committing suicide is pro-town? You say you don't believe my reasons for not voting on d3; yet you offer no explanation of what you think my motivation would be for not voting. Vote: ColbyVote: JanYou both gave "because she is voting for Patricia" as your reasons for jumping on Chameleon yesterday. I'd like to understand why both of you are certain Patricia is town. I am not 100% certain Patricia is Town but I fail to see why she would have given up a scum buddy so early in the game. I know scum will and do do anything but they aren't usually illogical. For most of the game I thought Chameleon was Town but when she kept insisting on voting for someone that could give us results I began to wonder if she was scum. Obviously I was wrong.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 10:08:32 GMT -5
don't know what your motivation was, Bill. You are smarter than I am, it just didn't ring true. Why are you voting me today?
I was trying to commit suicide because I was convinced you were scum for the other reasons stated, and the absolute only way I will get anyone to listen to me is to flip. I still think you're scum but I'm doubting myself now because of the two nights with no NK. The only reason I can see this is successful protection and IMO a scum Bill might choose wrong one night in a row but not two. I can WiFoM myself into a tizzy, though, so I better stick to my original theory.
Vote: BillM for reasons stated yesterday. Vote: Pleonast for making contradictory arguments such as how I was defending myself when at the time I was committing suicide. (Contradictory arguments are in general a town tell but Pleo is the most coldly logical player I know.) Vote: Colby for swinging the vote at the last minute. [OOG congratulations on the new nephew!]
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 10:08:49 GMT -5
don't know what your motivation was, Bill. You are smarter than I am, it just didn't ring true. Why are you voting me today?
I was trying to commit suicide because I was convinced you were scum for the other reasons stated, and the absolute only way I will get anyone to listen to me is to flip. I still think you're scum but I'm doubting myself now because of the two nights with no NK. The only reason I can see this is successful protection and IMO a scum Bill might choose wrong one night in a row but not two. I can WiFoM myself into a tizzy, though, so I better stick to my original theory.
Vote: BillM for reasons stated yesterday. Vote: Pleonast for making contradictory arguments such as how I was defending myself when at the time I was committing suicide. (Contradictory arguments are in general a town tell but Pleo is the most coldly logical player I know.) Vote: Colby for swinging the vote at the last minute. [OOG congratulations on the new nephew!]
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 10:09:18 GMT -5
Sorry for double post. I am having computer issues at work today.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 4, 2013 11:06:37 GMT -5
Colby11 (2,2): BillMc [5]; Archangel [7]
Archangel (1,1): BillMc [5] SilverJan (1,1): BillMc [5] BillMc (1,1): archangel [7] Pleonast (1,1): archangel [7]
With these votes, Colby11 will be lynched.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Nov 4, 2013 11:11:35 GMT -5
This is what I get for not reading the tiebreaker rules... I would have rather Mahaloth been lynched as opposed to Chameleon... but I knew as soon as I saw the results that I'm screwed anyways.
As to why I think Patricia is town and not scum, how can she not be? She gave us a scum player on a silver platter on Day 2. Bill, you care to overlook that? I call that sowing seeds of doubt..
Vote: Bill
However... no deaths again? That would suggest that either A- scum wasn't here, or B- scum got blocked (either via a doctor or an actual roleblocker. I'm leaning towards the doc, but we have seen variations of both roles)
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 4, 2013 12:03:27 GMT -5
First off, I got this PM from the moderator "You feel sleepy". I assume that means I'll be Day-killed at Dusk.
I've updated my vote counts; no guarantees on correctness.
Final Day One Vote Count
With these votes, swammerdami was lynched.
FruitAndGarbage has 4 votes from Pleonast (37), swammerdami (53-105), silverjan (60), Mahaloth (73), xArchangelx (124). patricia has 4 votes from swammerdami (53), Suburban Plankton (115), Pleonast (116), Idle Thoughts (131). Pleonast has 4 votes from swammerdami (53), gnarlycharlie (54), TheLastDays (55-55), TheLastDays (56), Mahaloth (73). swammerdami has 4 votes from swammerdami (53-53), gnarlycharlie (54), Mahaloth (73-95), Meeko (86), silverjan (93-166), FruitAndGarbage (98-127), TheLastDays (108), patricia (109). Suburban Plankton has 3 votes from swammerdami (53-132), xArchangelx (124), Idle Thoughts (139), silverjan (166). Colby11 has 2 votes from swammerdami (53-105), Suburban Plankton (119), TheLastDays (147). dizzymrslizzy has 2 votes from swammerdami (53-105), silverjan (83), patricia (162). Mahaloth has 2 votes from swammerdami (53-105), Pleonast (89), FruitAndGarbage (127). TheLastDays has 2 votes from swammerdami (53), FruitAndGarbage (98). BillMc has 1 vote from swammerdami (53-105), patricia (160). Chameleon has 1 vote from swammerdami (53). Idle Thoughts has 1 vote from FruitAndGarbage (33-98), Meeko (49-86), swammerdami (53-53), TheLastDays (55-55), TheLastDays (56-108), Suburban Plankton (115-145), swammerdami (132). Meeko has 1 vote from Suburban Plankton (53-105), silverjan (60-91), Mahaloth (71). silverjan has 1 vote from swammerdami (53-105), Pleonast (89). gnarlycharlie has 0 votes from swammerdami (53-105). xArchangelx has no votes. No Lynch has no votes.
BillMc has not voted. Chameleon has not voted. Colby11 has not voted. dizzymrslizzy has not voted. FruitAndGarbage has voted for Idle Thoughts (33-98), TheLastDays (98), swammerdami (98-127), Mahaloth (127). gnarlycharlie has voted for Pleonast (54), swammerdami (54). Idle Thoughts has voted for patricia (131), Suburban Plankton (139). Mahaloth has voted for Meeko (71), FruitAndGarbage (73), Pleonast (73), swammerdami (73-95). Meeko has voted for Idle Thoughts (49-86), swammerdami (86). patricia has voted for swammerdami (109), BillMc (160), dizzymrslizzy (162). Pleonast has voted for FruitAndGarbage (37), silverjan (89), Mahaloth (89), patricia (116). silverjan has voted for FruitAndGarbage (60), Meeko (60-91), dizzymrslizzy (83), swammerdami (93-166), Suburban Plankton (166). Suburban Plankton has voted for Meeko (53-105), Idle Thoughts (115-145), patricia (115), Colby11 (119). swammerdami has voted for BillMc (53-105), Chameleon (53), Colby11 (53-105), FruitAndGarbage (53-105), gnarlycharlie (53-105), Idle Thoughts (53-53), silverjan (53-105), TheLastDays (53), dizzymrslizzy (53-105), Mahaloth (53-105), patricia (53), Pleonast (53), Suburban Plankton (53-132), swammerdami (53-53), Idle Thoughts (132). TheLastDays has voted for Idle Thoughts (55-55), Pleonast (55-55), Idle Thoughts (56-108), Pleonast (56), swammerdami (108), Colby11 (147). xArchangelx has voted for FruitAndGarbage (124), Suburban Plankton (124).
Final Day Two Vote Count
With these votes, TheLastDays was lynched.
TheLastDays has 10 votes from FruitAndGarbage (12-90), patricia (22), dizzymrslizzy (31), silverjan (39), Colby11 (44), Chameleon (45), Pleonast (58), BillMc (62), Suburban Plankton (68), Mahaloth (75), xArchangelx (98). FruitAndGarbage has 4 votes from Pleonast (8), TheLastDays (20), Suburban Plankton (21), silverjan (24), Chameleon (79-92). Colby11 has 3 votes from Suburban Plankton (21), Meeko (41), gnarlycharlie (83). patricia has 3 votes from Pleonast (9-89), Suburban Plankton (21), Meeko (41), Chameleon (69). Suburban Plankton has 2 votes from FruitAndGarbage (35), xArchangelx (98). dizzymrslizzy has 1 vote from Meeko (41). gnarlycharlie has 1 vote from Colby11 (82). Meeko has 1 vote from Pleonast (56). Pleonast has 1 vote from Meeko (41). BillMc has no votes. Chameleon has no votes. Mahaloth has no votes. silverjan has no votes. xArchangelx has no votes. No Lynch has no votes.
BillMc has voted for TheLastDays (62). Chameleon has voted for TheLastDays (45), patricia (69), FruitAndGarbage (79-92). Colby11 has voted for TheLastDays (44), gnarlycharlie (82). dizzymrslizzy has voted for TheLastDays (31). FruitAndGarbage has voted for TheLastDays (12-90), Suburban Plankton (35). gnarlycharlie has voted for Colby11 (83). Mahaloth has voted for TheLastDays (75). Meeko has voted for Colby11 (41), dizzymrslizzy (41), patricia (41), Pleonast (41). patricia has voted for TheLastDays (22). Pleonast has voted for FruitAndGarbage (8), patricia (9-89), Meeko (56), TheLastDays (58). silverjan has voted for FruitAndGarbage (24), TheLastDays (39). Suburban Plankton has voted for Colby11 (21), FruitAndGarbage (21), patricia (21), TheLastDays (68). TheLastDays has voted for FruitAndGarbage (20). xArchangelx has voted for TheLastDays (98), Suburban Plankton (98).
Final Day Three Vote Count
With these votes, Mahaloth was lynched.
Mahaloth has 6 votes from Pleonast (18), silverjan (33), Meeko (48), Colby11 (52), dizzymrslizzy (55), xArchangelx (60). Chameleon has 4 votes from dizzymrslizzy (7), Pleonast (18), gnarlycharlie (36), xArchangelx (60). dizzymrslizzy has 3 votes from Chameleon (6), silverjan (17), Mahaloth (51). BillMc has 2 votes from Pleonast (18), xArchangelx (72). gnarlycharlie has 2 votes from Chameleon (47), Mahaloth (51). Meeko has 2 votes from Pleonast (18), Mahaloth (24). Pleonast has 2 votes from Chameleon (47), Mahaloth (51). silverjan has 2 votes from gnarlycharlie (36), Pleonast (38-44), Pleonast (44). xArchangelx has 2 votes from Pleonast (18), patricia (71). Colby11 has no votes. patricia has 0 votes from Chameleon (6-31). No Lynch has no votes.
BillMc has not voted. Chameleon has voted for dizzymrslizzy (6), patricia (6-31), gnarlycharlie (47), Pleonast (47). Colby11 has voted for Mahaloth (52). dizzymrslizzy has voted for Chameleon (7), Mahaloth (55). gnarlycharlie has voted for Chameleon (36), silverjan (36). Mahaloth has voted for Meeko (24), gnarlycharlie (51), dizzymrslizzy (51), Pleonast (51). Meeko has voted for Mahaloth (48). patricia has voted for xArchangelx (71). Pleonast has voted for xArchangelx (18), BillMc (18), Chameleon (18), Mahaloth (18), Meeko (18), silverjan (38-44), silverjan (44). silverjan has voted for dizzymrslizzy (17), Mahaloth (33). xArchangelx has voted for Chameleon (60), Mahaloth (60), BillMc (72).
Final Day Four Vote Count
With these votes, Chameleon was lynched.
Chameleon has 5 votes from gnarlycharlie (4), Pleonast (6), xArchangelx (31-106), xArchangelx (108), silverjan (124), Colby11 (134). xArchangelx has 5 votes from Pleonast (6), dizzymrslizzy (18), BillMc (34), Mahaloth (60), xArchangelx (118). gnarlycharlie has 4 votes from silverjan (8), Mahaloth (61), BillMc (71), Colby11 (134). Mahaloth has 4 votes from Pleonast (6-102), dizzymrslizzy (91), xArchangelx (94-106), patricia (96), silverjan (97), Colby11 (134). Colby11 has 3 votes from dizzymrslizzy (27), silverjan (43), xArchangelx (58-79), BillMc (69). Meeko has 3 votes from Pleonast (6-102), Mahaloth (61), BillMc (71), patricia (96). Pleonast has 3 votes from Meeko (28), Mahaloth (61), xArchangelx (106). silverjan has 2 votes from gnarlycharlie (4), Pleonast (10-102), Colby11 (23). BillMc has 1 vote from Pleonast (6-102), xArchangelx (31-106), xArchangelx (106). patricia has 1 vote from Chameleon (100). dizzymrslizzy has 0 votes from Mahaloth (61-98). No Lynch has no votes.
BillMc has voted for xArchangelx (34), Colby11 (69), gnarlycharlie (71), Meeko (71). Chameleon has voted for patricia (100). Colby11 has voted for silverjan (23), Chameleon (134), gnarlycharlie (134), Mahaloth (134). dizzymrslizzy has voted for xArchangelx (18), Colby11 (27), Mahaloth (91). gnarlycharlie has voted for Chameleon (4), silverjan (4). Mahaloth has voted for xArchangelx (60), gnarlycharlie (61), dizzymrslizzy (61-98), Meeko (61), Pleonast (61). Meeko has voted for Pleonast (28). patricia has voted for Mahaloth (96), Meeko (96). Pleonast has voted for xArchangelx (6), BillMc (6-102), Chameleon (6), Mahaloth (6-102), Meeko (6-102), silverjan (10-102). silverjan has voted for gnarlycharlie (8), Colby11 (43), Mahaloth (97), Chameleon (124). xArchangelx has voted for BillMc (31-106), Chameleon (31-106), Colby11 (58-79), Mahaloth (94-106), BillMc (106), Pleonast (106), Chameleon (108), xArchangelx (118).
Scum Third Party Town
I'll cogitate on this for a bit.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Nov 4, 2013 12:07:22 GMT -5
Forgot that I should vote for Mahaloth. I think he's scum Scotsman, not town
Vote: Mahaloth
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 4, 2013 12:15:34 GMT -5
Vote: Pleonast for making contradictory arguments such as how I was defending myself when at the time I was committing suicide. (Contradictory arguments are in general a town tell but Pleo is the most coldly logical player I know.) Can you quote precisely which statements you think are contradictory?
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Nov 4, 2013 12:25:19 GMT -5
Okay so we have a decision to make as a group here.
If the "I'm sleepy" PM = Dead at Dusk.
Do we want to No Lynch in order to prevent 2 Mislynches (I'm not sure if this is an option), but we can hammer it at this point. And if NL isn't an option do we want to pile on Pleo. We won't learn anything from this, but just prevent a 2nd mislynch if Pleo flips Town. Or do we ignore it, and just go scum hunting and hope we catch a scum today. My only issue with choices 1/2 is it really ties our hands as Town, and we get practically no information from the day.
Pleo, now that you have a target on your back, would you like to share your role with us since you only claimed that you weren't vanilla. Is there anything you can share with us, as to what you've done?
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 4, 2013 12:34:18 GMT -5
Okay so we have a decision to make as a group here. If the "I'm sleepy" PM = Dead at Dusk. Do we want to No Lynch in order to prevent 2 Mislynches (I'm not sure if this is an option), but we can hammer it at this point. And if NL isn't an option do we want to pile on Pleo. We won't learn anything from this, but just prevent a 2nd mislynch if Pleo flips Town. Or do we ignore it, and just go scum hunting and hope we catch a scum today. My only issue with choices 1/2 is it really ties our hands as Town, and we get practically no information from the day. We need to lynch. A lynch gives us our opportunity to eliminate scum and also our voting record. We can't win without lynching. A Day kill is simply a delayed Night kill. It provides us nothing. Pleo, now that you have a target on your back, would you like to share your role with us since you only claimed that you weren't vanilla. Is there anything you can share with us, as to what you've done? I'm not going to share anything at this moment. And I think you need to review exactly what I claimed: "I do not have any powers this game. I am not making any other claims (explicit or implicit) at this time." and "I'm not claiming to be vanilla.". These are different than your statement about me.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 12:44:57 GMT -5
Sure. Here's one from your post on Oct. 31 at around 10:30 am (sorry, if there is a way to directly quote I don't know it): And this is why it's better to put a complete explanation of your votes as you are voting. Mahaloth is voting for arch because they are "flying along with minimal participation". Mahaloth is voting for Meeko, Pleo, Gnarly and dizzy because of the same reason they voted for them YesterDay: we all voted for Chameleon. Nothing to do with how anyone is voting ToDay. I don't think Mahaloth is town, so I hope they keep playing this sloppy. Read more: idlemafia.com/thread/2222/wizard-oz-day?page=4#ixzz2jhRDj7QB
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 12:45:27 GMT -5
Today you vote me without giving any reason why.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 12:50:42 GMT -5
There are more and I will post them. But I am unvoting you if you are going to die anyway. I am on record as thinking you are scum.
Unvote: Pleonast
Vote: Mahaloth
My main reason yesterDay for unvoting him was the sudden swing on him, but Colby swung the vote onto Chameleon so that could be vote manipulation.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 12:53:05 GMT -5
Also (reading along yesterDay and trying to find the other quotes, Pleonast), is Meeko still in this game?
Vote: Meeko
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 12:55:59 GMT -5
This is the post that I have the biggest problem with. And this is why it's better to put a complete explanation of your votes as you are voting. Mahaloth is voting for arch because they are "flying along with minimal participation". Mahaloth is voting for Meeko, Pleo, Gnarly and dizzy because of the same reason they voted for them YesterDay: we all voted for Chameleon. Nothing to do with how anyone is voting ToDay. I don't think Mahaloth is town, so I hope they keep playing this sloppy. Read more: idlemafia.com/thread/2222/wizard-oz-day?page=4#ixzz2jhRDj7QB
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 12:56:25 GMT -5
Sorry, scratch that. The paste didn't work the way I thought it did.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 12:57:45 GMT -5
THIS is the post I am most suspicious of: I'm saying it now because you're now trying to use meta-game arguments into influence players in this game. And your meta-game argument has nothing to do with your suspicions, but is be proffered as a defense. You say you behave a certain way when you're town. The fact that you're self-aware enough to call out your own tell means you're clever enough to fake it too. Judging behavior in the current game is the only reliable way to evaluate alignment. You are trying to distract players from your current behavior and current alignment by appealing to past games and past alignments. That is suspicious. xarchangelx Avatar Nov 1 2013 at 3:49pm xarchangelx said: In fact, Vote: xarchangelx I am putting my vote where my mouth is. I think town needs to see my flip now. And now you are muddying the vote record by voting for a player you claim is town. If you are really town, your play is hurting your own team. Read more: idlemafia.com/thread/2222/wizard-oz-day?page=5#ixzz2jhUUPsIk
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 13:01:57 GMT -5
1. You say my meta-game argument is proffered as a defense. This is after I have already voted myself, so what am I defending?
2. You say my meta-game argument has nothing to do with my suspicions. I have stated very clearly that I am suspicious of Bill chiefly because of meta-game arguments. I'm not using it as a defense at all, I really think Bill is scum for metagame reasons, and I have stated that multiple times. When I say I always act this way when I am town and Bill knows that, I am not asking Bill not to vote me (I have not asked anyone not to vote me or tried to defend myself once). I'm saying I really feel strongly that Bill is scum because of it. You are clever enough to know that.
3. I don't understand how you thought I was muddying the vote record by voting for myself if I am town. If I am town, and I flip town, my statements will be shown to be true.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 13:03:47 GMT -5
And that being said, as I'm writing this I have to conclude that you may not be scum. Because having been poisoned, I see no pro-scum motivation to you continuing to interrogate me. If you die and flip scum, anything you say about me will come under question. I do see pro-town motivation to you continuing to interrogate me, so I may have to conclude those are logical inconsistencies and you're not as logical as I thought you were.
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 4, 2013 13:16:19 GMT -5
Today you vote me without giving any reason why. Who is "you"? Bill is the only who's voted for you ToDay, and they gave a reason. 1. You say my meta-game argument is proffered as a defense. This is after I have already voted myself, so what am I defending? 2. You say my meta-game argument has nothing to do with my suspicions. I have stated very clearly that I am suspicious of Bill chiefly because of meta-game arguments. I'm not using it as a defense at all, I really think Bill is scum for metagame reasons, and I have stated that multiple times. When I say I always act this way when I am town and Bill knows that, I am not asking Bill not to vote me (I have not asked anyone not to vote me or tried to defend myself once). I'm saying I really feel strongly that Bill is scum because of it. You are clever enough to know that. 3. I don't understand how you thought I was muddying the vote record by voting for myself if I am town. If I am town, and I flip town, my statements will be shown to be true. Yes, yes, you disagree with my arguments. But you claimed I was making "contradictory" arguments. Where is the contradiction you claim I'm making?
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 13:27:42 GMT -5
I was speaking to you, Pleonast. You are correct that it's Bill that voted me...I read that wrong.
I think it is contradictory to say I am using metagame arguments to defend myself at a point in the game when I am voting myself. And I thought it was contradictory that you were voting me without giving a reason after exhorting Mahaloth not to vote without giving a reason, but I read that wrong, it was Bill. (He does not give a reason, he asks a question.)
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Nov 4, 2013 13:31:50 GMT -5
Also (reading along yesterDay and trying to find the other quotes, Pleonast), is Meeko still in this game? Vote: Meeko Someone should ask him. The short version, is I was on a course of medication, that I was going to stop prematurely, had the day after not been the last day of taking it. As that relates to Mafia, I could tell I wasn't myself. In everything. Did this game take a back burner then? Yes. Do I feel like I can catch up? Not really. Then again, I feel, frankly, a lot of us are kinda calling it in on this game, and votes that are fixated on day two, when we are / were at day 4 and beyond suck. I can't catch up, and don't find value in strictly opportunistic voting. Yes Pleonast, that's calling you out. If this gets at you a certain way, it's because you know it to be truth.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Nov 4, 2013 13:32:49 GMT -5
NETA: calling it in, I mean "phoning it in".
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