Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Post by Meeko on Nov 4, 2013 13:37:58 GMT -5
Vote: Pleonast
Because, screw it. No townie would dare to be that opportunistic. Scum has to make votes like that, and they are.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 13:46:51 GMT -5
Unvote: Meeko
Because I think it would be really uncool to make up an excuse like that.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 13:47:57 GMT -5
But what opportunistic votes are you talking about? Because as far as I can tell (and I had to be corrected on this) Pleo has not voted today.
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Post by BillMc on Nov 4, 2013 13:53:12 GMT -5
I am not 100% certain Patricia is Town but I fail to see why she would have given up a scum buddy so early in the game. I know scum will and do do anything but they aren't usually illogical. For most of the game I thought Chameleon was Town but when she kept insisting on voting for someone that could give us results I began to wonder if she was scum. Obviously I was wrong. Ok, Unvote: Jan don't know what your motivation was, Bill. You are smarter than I am, it just didn't ring true. Why are you voting me today? I thought that was quite clear - for your anti-town play. Indeed, your voting pattern yesterday almost looks like is was deliberately trying to obfuscate - voting one person, waiting till a bandwagon starts, changing your mind, unvoting, rinse/repeat. As to why I think Patricia is town and not scum, how can she not be? She gave us a scum player on a silver platter on Day 2. Bill, you care to overlook that? I call that sowing seeds of doubt.. Her action does not confirm her alignment. I have an open mind on the subject. It seems that you are without a doubt that she is town despite no confirmed evidence. You are either misguided, or are scum - I can't see you being another town investigator. Indeed, Chameleon got lynched for expressing doubts about Patricia being town, and now you are voting me for not blindly accepting Patricia is town. @pleo - your day 4 notes have an error. Chameleon voted Patricia in #100, and not the other way around as you have in your notes. It was this vote that Archangel, Jan and Colby had issue with which led to Chameleon's lynch. So the sleepy poisoner returns, so that quashes the theory that it was a one off. While I agree with Dizzy that lynching Pleo would avoid a mislynch, I also agree with Pleo that it ultimately would provide no information. We have several mislynches in hand, so we don't need to give the scum a break by lynching Pleo.
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 4, 2013 13:53:48 GMT -5
I think it is contradictory to say I am using metagame arguments to defend myself at a point in the game when I am voting myself. What's my contradiction? Me saying you are defending yourself with metagame arguments is not contradicted by you voting yourself. You can certainly argue that my reasons are poor, but there is no contradiction in my arguments.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 14:05:15 GMT -5
I think it is contradictory to say I am using metagame arguments to defend myself at a point in the game when I am voting myself. What's my contradiction? Me saying you are defending yourself with metagame arguments is not contradicted by you voting yourself. You can certainly argue that my reasons are poor, but there is no contradiction in my arguments. Perhaps I used the wrong word. It makes no sense to me that you are arguing I am defending myself *at all* (*how* I am supposedly defending myself is not part of the point I am making) after I have already voted myself. I'm not going to spend the day arguing semantics. Repeatedly interrogating me on the same question *does* have potential pro-scum motivation. I've explained myself, I have nothing further to say about this. If you don't believe me, vote me.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 14:07:34 GMT -5
I am not 100% certain Patricia is Town but I fail to see why she would have given up a scum buddy so early in the game. I know scum will and do do anything but they aren't usually illogical. For most of the game I thought Chameleon was Town but when she kept insisting on voting for someone that could give us results I began to wonder if she was scum. Obviously I was wrong. Ok, Unvote: Jan don't know what your motivation was, Bill. You are smarter than I am, it just didn't ring true. Why are you voting me today? I thought that was quite clear - for your anti-town play. Indeed, your voting pattern yesterday almost looks like is was deliberately trying to obfuscate - voting one person, waiting till a bandwagon starts, changing your mind, unvoting, rinse/repeat. As to why I think Patricia is town and not scum, how can she not be? She gave us a scum player on a silver platter on Day 2. Bill, you care to overlook that? I call that sowing seeds of doubt.. Her action does not confirm her alignment. I have an open mind on the subject. It seems that you are without a doubt that she is town despite no confirmed evidence. You are either misguided, or are scum - I can't see you being another town investigator. Indeed, Chameleon got lynched for expressing doubts about Patricia being town, and now you are voting me for not blindly accepting Patricia is town. @pleo - your day 4 notes have an error. Chameleon voted Patricia in #100, and not the other way around as you have in your notes. It was this vote that Archangel, Jan and Colby had issue with which led to Chameleon's lynch. So the sleepy poisoner returns, so that quashes the theory that it was a one off. While I agree with Dizzy that lynching Pleo would avoid a mislynch, I also agree with Pleo that it ultimately would provide no information. We have several mislynches in hand, so we don't need to give the scum a break by lynching Pleo. Okay, thank you. What is the possible scum motivation you see in my voting myself?
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 4, 2013 15:07:57 GMT -5
What's my contradiction? Me saying you are defending yourself with metagame arguments is not contradicted by you voting yourself. You can certainly argue that my reasons are poor, but there is no contradiction in my arguments. Perhaps I used the wrong word. It makes no sense to me that you are arguing I am defending myself *at all* (*how* I am supposedly defending myself is not part of the point I am making) after I have already voted myself. I'm not going to spend the day arguing semantics. Repeatedly interrogating me on the same question *does* have potential pro-scum motivation. I've explained myself, I have nothing further to say about this. If you don't believe me, vote me. No "perhaps" about it. I don't have a problem with others interpreting my posts/votes as they wish. That is the essence of finding scum. I do have a problem with misrepresentation, which "contradictory" clearly is in regards to my posts. I do think semantics are important in mafia, because discerning motivation in players who are intentionally obscuring it often depends on it. But I think we've covered this bit well enough. I would point out that voting oneself is something that I see scum do out of desperation to avoid the lynch. The intent is to distract other players with the apparent irrationality of self-voting. That tactic does not preclude defending oneself in other ways. Add to that the fact that no townie trying to win the game will vote themself because 1) votes should be on the players one thinks are scum, 2) mislynches hurt the town. The net result is self-voting is a big "I'm scum" flag. vote xarchangelx for two late votes on Day One and no others, a late Day-Two vote on Last and no one else, lazy follow-on votes on Day Three, and weird vote manipulation on Day Four. By which I mean the "I want to lynch myself" self-vote, yet contributed to lynching a townie instead. Too convenient. Other votes for most suspicious to less: vote Meeko for no Day-Two vote on Last, and making no meaningful vote on Day Four. There were four players on Day Four at risk of being lynched, and Meeko had no opinion on which of them should be lynched. vote Mahaloth for a late Day-Two vote on Last, and stopping the Day-Three lynch of a suspicious player. vote BillMc for no vote on Day One, and a late Day-Two vote on Last and no one else, and no vote on Day Three. vote silverjan for making accusations while misunderstanding posts. Multiple times. See Day Three Post 33 and Day Four Post 8.
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 4, 2013 15:09:33 GMT -5
I would greatly prefer to see arch lynched and will likely remove votes if that makes a difference.
Also, jan is just barely above my threshold to vote and a lot less than the others so. unvote silverjan
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Post by Silver Jan on Nov 4, 2013 15:26:21 GMT -5
Vote: Mahaloth
It keeps going round and round in my head that the scum team seem very underpowered, especially with no kills 2 Nights in a row. Dizzy stopped the first one and someone else must have stopped the second one and even though Pleo has been poisoned, and I think scum have done that, it doesn't seem like a proper NK, which it isn't but it seems as if it could be an extra scum power. If Dizzy is correct about there being only 2 scum left then it just makes sense to me that Mahaloth would be scum otherwise why not give his alignment, scum would already know if he wasn't part of their team.
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Post by Mahaloth on Nov 4, 2013 15:45:01 GMT -5
OK, here we go. I have a feeling this is a big Day. I'm going to go with my guts on this and re-evaluate my thoughts. Vote Archangel - This should be the lynch just to satisfy our curiosity. Let's just find out. Vote Pleonast - Pure vibe at this point. He's playing well and not holding back. I say kill him and find out if he's scum. I may vote some more later. By the way, I'm quite clueless and not too sure on anything. I think after this game, we should revisit Astra's "Let's improve how we play Mafia" thread, which I'll link to here. boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=654556I really do think most of this is just guess work. Oh, and y'all can lynch me today if you have no stronger suspicion. I'm vanilla at this point and while I'd rather lynch a scum, at least I'm a minor town at this point and perhaps our Night-hero can continue to stop the NK.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 4, 2013 15:48:07 GMT -5
I would greatly prefer to see arch lynched and will likely remove votes if that makes a difference. Also, jan is just barely above my threshold to vote and a lot less than the others so. unvote silverjanI have no problem with that. I can see why you think my voting is scummy. I would just like to point out that my supposedly invalid metagame reasons for suspecting Bill are now backed up by a terrible voting record. Whoever is alive toMorrow who is town, please don't forget this.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 4, 2013 19:00:15 GMT -5
Mahaloth (4,4): Colby11 [13]; archangel [19]; Pleonast [37]; silverjan [39]
Archangel (3,3): BillMc [5]; Pleonast [37]; Mahaloth [40] BillMc (3,3): archangel [7]; Colby11 [11]; Pleonast [37]
Colby11 (2,2): BillMc [5]; Archangel [7] Pleonast (2,2): archangel [7,19]; Meeko [30]; Mahaloth [40]
Meeko (1,1): archangel [20,31]; Pleonast [37]
SilverJan (0,1): BillMc [5,33]; Pleonast [37,38]
With these votes, Mahaloth will be lynched.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Nov 4, 2013 19:17:58 GMT -5
Since we are talking about vibe, let me throw a " in general "
In general I feel that scum would be more inclined to multi-vote in the same post than not. Scum benefit from noise. What better way to get noise that to make mass quantity. Sure they will unvote - with ulterior motives. It's too much like the shell game / find the red lady for my liking except they don't have the pretense of showing you the pea ahead of time.
After all what do added votes to the runners up in the lynch get town, other than confusion?
Chronos' vote record program incarnate - and some among us are voting based on the readout as well. Garbage in garbage out, and we are at the dump.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Nov 5, 2013 7:50:34 GMT -5
There are more and I will post them. But I am unvoting you if you are going to die anyway. I am on record as thinking you are scum. Unvote: Pleonast Vote: Mahaloth My main reason yesterDay for unvoting him was the sudden swing on him, but Colby swung the vote onto Chameleon so that could be vote manipulation. i think you should keep your vote on Pleo if you really think he's scummy. you don't really lose anything. that said, i wonder why Pleo doesn't want to share anything if he's about to die. he's claiming to have some passive power or a mason. i'm not sure how holding back is helpful to town. this makes me suspicious. Vote: Pleonasti'm also suspicious of Bill. he's been active relative to his recent games and yet did not vote in D1 and D3. why have some people called out archangel for voting late but not Bill? he seems to be getting a free pass. he even called me out for flying below the radar. i can't say that i have been fairly passive but he does acknowledge that i usually play that way and votes me anyway. he knows it's a null tell but that doesn't stop him. i suppose the multiple votes allow him to do that but calling me out and not voting strikes me as hypocritical. at least i have more complete voting record. Vote: BillMc
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Nov 5, 2013 9:58:37 GMT -5
I must have been further impaired than I thought, wasn't Maha a town Scotsman? And he is the vote leader, why?
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Post by Mahaloth on Nov 5, 2013 10:10:03 GMT -5
I must have been further impaired than I thought, wasn't Maha a town Scotsman? And he is the vote leader, why? It's not confirmed I'm Town in my reveal. Only that I'm a Scotsman. Therefore, they think the game would be more balanced if I was actually Scum Scotsman. Hey, they might be right about the balancing thing. If I'm lynched, I'll be revealed as Town and perhaps that will help somehow too? I prefer not to be lynched, but I can't argue much with the balancing argument.
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Post by patricia on Nov 5, 2013 10:31:23 GMT -5
Man miss a day around here and you come back to pages to reads - I haven't fully caught up but I have a few ideas to throw around
First off - Great news about the 2nd peaceful night. While it is good for town that no one was killed again last night it opens up some questions. Number one being what was the scum doing last night? I also noted that Pleo is feeling sleepy does this mean he is set to die tonight? Also, why has no one felt sleepy since day one? I mean dizzy spell covers night 3 but what about night four? Well, last night I received a note from the mod that I had been "knocked unconscious" - this was very different than the night before when I got a simple "you had a great sleep last night and therefore you were unable to track" So I feel last nights action was the actions of the scum - why didn't they simply kill me? Not sure but my best guess is someone is protecting me and for that thanks - I just wish I could get some results for you all.
I have tried to track the same person the last two nights and will try to track them again tonight so I would rather not say who atm.
Anyway, so I think the scum team traded a simple night kill for a delayed kill and the power to block someone's night action. Can anyone back up this idea? Has anyone else been "knocked Unconscious" and would they even know if they didn't have a night action?
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 5, 2013 10:50:21 GMT -5
Vote Pleonast- Pure vibe at this point. He's playing well and not holding back. I say kill him and find out if he's scum. You do realize that I received a "sleepy" PM and am likely to die no matter what the votes are? Anyone voting to lynch me is basically saying "we'll just let the Day-killer choose the lynch for us". that said, i wonder why Pleo doesn't want to share anything if he's about to die. he's claiming to have some passive power or a mason. i'm not sure how holding back is helpful to town. this makes me suspicious. Vote: PleonastPerhaps English isn't the first language for everyone here, but I very clearly am not claiming what you're saying I did.
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Post by BillMc on Nov 5, 2013 11:06:48 GMT -5
i'm also suspicious of Bill. he's been active relative to his recent games and yet did not vote in D1 and D3. why have some people called out archangel for voting late but not Bill? he seems to be getting a free pass. he even called me out for flying below the radar. i can't say that i have been fairly passive but he does acknowledge that i usually play that way and votes me anyway. he knows it's a null tell but that doesn't stop him. i suppose the multiple votes allow him to do that but calling me out and not voting strikes me as hypocritical. at least i have more complete voting record. I think this post just confirms what I have been saying - you are dribbling along with minimal participation and not even bothering to read half of what had been posted. I did not acknowledge anything about your play style - you may be placing votes, but my vote on you was for contributing very little to the discussion. And both Archangel and Pleo have called me on my votes, and I stated why I didn't vote. Interestingly enough, it was your vote on chameleon that was the tie breaker - your total participation yesterDay was voting Chameleon and reaffirming you reason for voting her was because she didn't believe Patricia. You know, I am totally sick of this meta game shit "active relative to his recent games" - if I play I get called on it, if I don't play I get called on it. I travel a lot for work, flying a 100K miles a year is nothing, sod it, I'll stick to travel any leave mafia out of it.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 5, 2013 11:15:32 GMT -5
BillMc (4,4): archangel [7]; Colby11 [11]; Pleonast [37]; gnarlycharlie [44] Mahaloth (4,4): Colby11 [13]; archangel [19]; Pleonast [37]; silverjan [39]
Archangel (3,3): BillMc [5]; Pleonast [37]; Mahaloth [40] Pleonast (3,3): archangel [7,19]; Meeko [30]; Mahaloth [40]; gnarlycharlie [44]
Colby11 (2,2): BillMc [5]; Archangel [7]
Meeko (1,1): archangel [20,31]; Pleonast [37]
SilverJan (0,1): BillMc [5,33]; Pleonast [37,38]
With these votes, BillMc will be lynched.
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Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Post by Meeko on Nov 5, 2013 13:01:15 GMT -5
I must have been further impaired than I thought, wasn't Maha a town Scotsman? And he is the vote leader, why? It's not confirmed I'm Town in my reveal. Only that I'm a Scotsman. Therefore, they think the game would be more balanced if I was actually Scum Scotsman. Hey, they might be right about the balancing thing. If I'm lynched, I'll be revealed as Town and perhaps that will help somehow too? I prefer not to be lynched, but I can't argue much with the balancing argument. On balance (heh) I wonder if there is an issue with balance, if I haven't explicitly stated it in the past for this game, I think the multi votes helps, and is being propagated by scum. That is to say the balance, for me at least, feels off in this game, and I need look no further than the do nothing, but look good on paper, multi voting for runners up, that fall off the day after. Are those candidates revolted in kind the day after? Pleonast is on me hard for one vote I made. I wonder where he is on everyone else that has place far more votes than I often in the same post. Wasn't it a republican tactic in 2012 to say all the lies you could, knowing most of them would not even be addressed, let alone rightfully disproved? How did that work out again?
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 5, 2013 13:35:52 GMT -5
Pleonast is on me hard for one vote I made. I wonder where he is on everyone else that has place far more votes than I often in the same post. Are you even reading this game? I'm not on you for a vote, but your lack of votes, on more than one Day. To quote myself: "vote Meeko for no Day-Two vote on Last, and making no meaningful vote on Day Four. There were four players on Day Four at risk of being lynched, and Meeko had no opinion on which of them should be lynched." And I've voted three other players for their votes, xarchangelx, Mahaloth, and BillMc.
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 5, 2013 16:35:46 GMT -5
Thinking further I think Day Four will be very useful once we have a few more reveals.
Chameleon has 5 votes from gnarlycharlie (4), Pleonast (6), xArchangelx (31-106), xArchangelx (108), silverjan (124), Colby11 (134). xArchangelx has 5 votes from Pleonast (6), dizzymrslizzy (18), BillMc (34), Mahaloth (60), xArchangelx (118). gnarlycharlie has 4 votes from silverjan (8), Mahaloth (61), BillMc (71), Colby11 (134). Mahaloth has 4 votes from Pleonast (6-102), dizzymrslizzy (91), xArchangelx (94-106), patricia (96), silverjan (97), Colby11 (134).
These four players were all close to being lynched. The votes here were meaningful--any changes would've made a difference. Assuming we actually lynch someone ToDay, and that scum kill ToNight, there'll three more known alignments on Day Six. That should be enough to get a good lead on scum; certainly on Day Seven.
Please revisit this.
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Post by Silver Jan on Nov 6, 2013 2:18:27 GMT -5
I don't really understand the votes on Pleo when it seems as if he is going to die anyway. If he doesn't die then we will known he was lying about feeling sleepy. I think that if Pleo gets lynched then it just negates the fact that there was no NK and Town has just voted for a no lynch by voting for Pleo.
Vote: gnarlycharlie
I think both his votes today are very odd. I have already explained what I think about a Pleo lynch and I find his vote for BillMc equally baffling. Although I might not agree with what BillMc has done, his voting strategy or lack thereof, I do feel that if he was scum he would have made sure to get a vote in, especially to cause a mislynch of a Townie.
With Patricia not giving us any results it does give me a little niggle but it can be explained by Dizzy's power and a scum roleblocker.
I know Meeko has a vote on Pleo but I haven't a clue what to think about him. He really does baffle me.
Vote: Meeko
Because I cannot see how a vote on a dying Pleo helps Town at all. If Pleo is scum the poisoner could be a 3rd Party/SK or even Town (I don't actually think the poisoner is Town but it's a possibility). Another thing that I just thought of, if Pleo is scum and scum places their votes on him because he is dying anyway they might be hoping to get some Town cred when he flips scum. Convoluted perhaps but not impossible.
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Post by patricia on Nov 6, 2013 8:34:46 GMT -5
I'm going back to my votes of yesterday
Vote: Meeko - yesterday I voted Meeko for his just phoning in and not scum hunting but today I'm adding to the case his vote on Pleo - why would any Town player vote someone who is likely to die already? No good reason I can think of - trying to save a scum buddy?
Vote: Mahaloth - because I don't think town would have a Scotsman against such a small scum team
My problem is that most likely only one of my two vote getters today are scum - but I'm at a lost as to which one. Guess if one is lynched today (Here is Hope) their flip will give us some good information
On a side note - for a killing game this one lacks death which is good for my team but also the lack of information is making moving forward harder
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 6, 2013 11:45:39 GMT -5
Mahaloth is the lynch leader, vote swings onto BillM (whom I am convinced is scum), and then the vote swings back onto Mahaloth. The problem with a Mahaloth lynch is it doesn't really tell us all that much. Most people are voting him because of the balance issue.
Colby votes him without a reason, I vote him because of balance, Pleo votes him because Pleo thinks he is scummy, and then Jan votes him because of balance, and Patricia votes him because of balance. I don't like the feel of this.
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Post by Pleonast on Nov 6, 2013 12:35:15 GMT -5
The problem with a Mahaloth lynch is it doesn't really tell us all that much. Can you explain that further? Lynching Mahaloth will give us info on both ToDay's lynch and the Day Three lynch. You do have a good point about how the vote leader changed, but with so few votes and so early in the Day, I'm inclined to not put much weight on it.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 6, 2013 12:53:34 GMT -5
The problem with a Mahaloth lynch is it doesn't really tell us all that much. Can you explain that further? Lynching Mahaloth will give us info on both ToDay's lynch and the Day Three lynch. You do have a good point about how the vote leader changed, but with so few votes and so early in the Day, I'm inclined to not put much weight on it. I was thinking about toDay. I was not thinking about Day 3, but I see your point.
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Post by xarchangelx on Nov 6, 2013 12:54:29 GMT -5
And I also see your point about early in the day and few votes, but it seems like the board was quiet for a very long and then all of a sudden there were a flurry of votes from people who hadn't been heard from in a while.
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