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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 18:41:25 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 15, 2007 18:41:25 GMT -5
I think atarus' plan makes a lot of sense, and helps make the Guv mechanic potentially more pro-Town. It doesn't try to control and restructure the way Pleo's does.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 18:56:20 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Nov 15, 2007 18:56:20 GMT -5
Not only that but it would functionally reduce the time we have to debate any Day's lynchee. Have you even read my posts? Under the electrocute-the-Governor plan, the Day Two lynch would be decided over the course of most Day One, all of Night One, and the first 24 hours of Day Two. And, each Day will last 24 hours longer, because we'll have to elect a Governor. The plan functionally increases the time to decide. Only Day One is sped up. (snip) Sorry, but the Day 2 Lynch will be discussed during all of Night 1 and all of Day 2, anyway. Of course, the Day 1 "Chairman" will be elected during Day 1 alone, but you're not actually giving us more time for Day 2's Lynch. Your plan would be drastically reducing discussion time for Day 1's Lynch. And nothing more. In other words: I'm completely against this plan.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:04:27 GMT -5
Post by Zeriel on Nov 15, 2007 19:04:27 GMT -5
I'm willing to get behind Atarus' modified plan.
vote Pleonast for governor.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:04:43 GMT -5
Post by Zeriel on Nov 15, 2007 19:04:43 GMT -5
whoah!
vote pleonast for gov
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:14:48 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 15, 2007 19:14:48 GMT -5
gah, it's Firefly day one all over again. [self-edit of plurality/majority crap] I am against the kill the Governor plan and believe it is wasting our time and diverting our attention. We have only about 22 hours left to elect a governor. At least 13 people need to vote for the election to be valid so we don't go into election over-time and lose 24 hours of scum hunting. Based on nothing more than his succinct analysis of the disadvantages of being Guv. for both colonists and replicants in the night thread: Diomedes:I'm going to: Vote Diomedes GovernorThis has the added benefit of voting for someone who is not here. A time honored corporate method of passing the buck.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:15:03 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 15, 2007 19:15:03 GMT -5
rules don't say when role info is revealed, and the color is vague at best, let's ask the horse: storyteller, when are dead player's roles publicly revealed?The roles of a dead player will be revealed at the same time as the announcement of his or her death.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:16:03 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 15, 2007 19:16:03 GMT -5
Story, you mean the election will end on the 16th right? Yes, the 16th. I need to learn to read a calendar.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:16:12 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Nov 15, 2007 19:16:12 GMT -5
atarus's modified plan sounds good to me too. No vote for me yet, I will wait till more players have posted.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:18:36 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 15, 2007 19:18:36 GMT -5
Time to set up my notes file. I'm having trouble remembering what our narrator / GM means by "Plurality". Fun eh? Storyteller :
What do you mean by "plurality/"- Simple majority (the winner is the person who received the largest single number of votes)
- Overall majority (The winner received one-half or more of the votes cast)
- Absolute majority (The winner received one-half or more of the number of possible votes).
The winner of the election for Governor will be the player with the largest single number of votes at 5:00PM EST tomorrow. If no one has any votes, you'll keep going until someone gets one. If there's a tie, you'll keep going until it's broken. The election ends early if any player receives 13 votes at any time. Does that clarify?
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:20:36 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Nov 15, 2007 19:20:36 GMT -5
But, if you're convinced it's such a good idea, vote Pleonast for Guv. (color removed) Yeah, lynching based on disagreements of strategy always works so well for the good guys. <snip> I didn't vote to lynch you. I voted you for Guv. I think it's necessary, in order to make you put your money where your mouth is. <snip>Have you even read my posts? Under the electrocute-the-Governor plan, the Day Two lynch would be decided over the course of most Day One, all of Night One, and the first 24 hours of Day Two. And, each Day will last 24 hours longer, because we'll have to elect a Governor. The plan functionally increases the time to decide. Only Day One is sped up. Have you even read anybody else's posts? Although we'd technically have more time, we'd be discussing things a Day late. Not all mods intend for us to work with essentially delayed info. I think auto-lynching the Guv'nor in the early game, when any Guv is much more likely to be town, is pretty anti-town behaviour. Maybe in the endgame when things are tighter, it would make more sense. Agreed. Although I completely agree with your end game analysis of the Guv's importance, I think you're drastically overestimating his importance now. If scum nabs the role now, and they use it to their team's advantage, it will be found out soon enough. If they don't use it to their advantage, then, it's not an advantage. I don't agree with your plan, but in voting for you, I'm asking you to put your money where your mouth is. I'm not voting for you to be lynched, I'm voting for you to be Guv. I very much doubt that you'll adhere to the same line of thought when you're in your self-appointed hot seat. You're completely right, disagreements between players, and difference in strategy are not scum tells. However, badgering others for not subscribing to your ideals while not listening to theirs is decidedly anti-town. YMMV.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:21:17 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 15, 2007 19:21:17 GMT -5
And finally, an early vote count:
Pleonast - 2 (Santo Rugger, zeriel) diomedes - 1 (sinjin)
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:31:49 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Nov 15, 2007 19:31:49 GMT -5
gah, it's Firefly day one all over again. HA, you don't remember the start of that game very well then! This is WAY worse. 183 posts in the first 24 hours of that game, so far this game is only 10 hours old (if you count from the start of Night 0) and we already have 118 posts. And Roosh hasn't even started posting yet.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:35:50 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Nov 15, 2007 19:35:50 GMT -5
Out of curiosity...are there ANY pro town benefits to the Gov potisition?
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:41:29 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Nov 15, 2007 19:41:29 GMT -5
There are two benefits I can think of for the Gov position.
I already outlined how it can be advantageous to the town if scum hold it in the opening of the game.
Also, if a Mason holds it, he can prevent another Mason's lynch who couldn't get on in time to claim. Or any role, for that matter, that wasn't available between when the vote snowball started rolling and the deadline.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:46:34 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Nov 15, 2007 19:46:34 GMT -5
Although I completely agree with your end game analysis of the Guv's importance, I think you're drastically overestimating his importance now. If scum nabs the role now, and they use it to their team's advantage, it will be found out soon enough. If they don't use it to their advantage, then, it's not an advantage. Pygmy is this what you are talking about when you say you outlined how it could be helpful to have scum occupy the position early in the game?
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:47:34 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Nov 15, 2007 19:47:34 GMT -5
Yes.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:48:26 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Nov 15, 2007 19:48:26 GMT -5
DtNER (Damn the No Edit Rule)
Not necessarily helpful, but not hurtful, either.
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 19:52:48 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Nov 15, 2007 19:52:48 GMT -5
I'm against auto-lynching the Governor every day. Certainly not at the start of the game. I have a feeling that in a few Days time, we may want to reconsider this, but there's no need to on Day 1. (And it's one of those plans that really only works if everyone agrees to it.) I think we ought to have as little discussion of the Governor and his/her decisions as possible. Consider that even the most knowledgeable town role (a cop) as Governor still only has a small chance know which way to throw the switch, and a regular townie there has no better guess than anyone else. But the scum will strongly desire to have a Governor who is scum, because they'll be able to manipulate the lynch. Since whoever gets elected Today isn't likely to last the whole game, my goal is to put an ordinary citizen in the spot. Even with the 24-hour extension, I still think we're better off not spending time worrying about the Governor. I think the best way to do this is a random vote. While I'm against random votes for lynching, this is to me the most likely way to choose a vanilla person, and doesn't require much discussion. Since claimed randomness is difficult to prove, here's how I'm going to do it: I'm using the Con. US & P.R. daily precipitation data for Nov. 15. Downloadable from this page. vote zeriel for GovernorWARNING : If you hate math, skip the rest. If you feel like checking, it's the nws_precip<date>.dbf file, which you can open in a spreadsheet program. The data is in the sixth column.
NeoOffice seems to be choking on the table length, so I'm using only the first 65535 rows. The value is multiplied by 100, and then modulo 25. I'm using Story's official and alphabetical list of players.
The sum I get is 2319674 mod 25 = 24
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 20:14:25 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Nov 15, 2007 20:14:25 GMT -5
I see that the autolynch discussion has been pretty much covered, but I want to weigh in on the "against" side. Don't really have a rational argument to back me up, but it just doesn't sit right with me.
And I hope the game doesn't generate this much stuff every day. ;D
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 20:20:08 GMT -5
Post by kassia on Nov 15, 2007 20:20:08 GMT -5
I agree with Parzival that we spend as little time and energy on the Governor as possible - at least until we figure out whether or not there are real advantages for townies in regards to the role and how we can best use it.
As for my vote, I'm refraining for the moment because as the newbie here I'd like to get to know everyone through a few more posts first.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 20:32:50 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Nov 15, 2007 20:32:50 GMT -5
I didn't vote to lynch you. I voted you for Guv. I think it's necessary, in order to make you put your money where your mouth is. I'm not sure what you expect voting for me is going to accomplish. It's certainly not going to change my support* for the plan. If enough players approve of it, it'll be their votes that decide who gets the chair. I see four possibilities here: 1) You like the electrocute-the-Governor plan and think I should be the first to fry. 2) You don't like the plan and think I'd be a good Governor. 3) You do like the plan and think I'd be a good Governor. 4) You don't like the plan, think I should fry, but are voting for me anyway. My analysis of each: 1) Why are you voting for me, then? 2) No problem here, not that I want to be Governor. 3) Self-contradictory. 4) Seems very spiteful. Do you want to explain your vote? *My support is actually for the non-automatic version of the plan, as suggested my atarus.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 20:41:54 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Nov 15, 2007 20:41:54 GMT -5
Since I don't like math, I'm using random.org. I don't particularly like random.org either, but I want to get a vote in and I don't really care who it's for this early in the game. Later on, I'd be more likely to get with the modified atarus plan, but not now. Now I just want to get on with the rest of the game.
So...
And from the official player list, that means Kat should be governor.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 20:59:51 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Nov 15, 2007 20:59:51 GMT -5
*shakes her head sadly at our communal propensity for self-inflicted reading/analysis torture*
So with atarus' revision of Pleo's proposal, we elect a Guv'nuh, and they then spend the duration of their time in office trying to convince everyone that they should not be the one who is lynched that day?
What do we do if one of our Guv'nuh's does indeed convince enough of us not to lynch him/her, causing us to lynch someone else? What do we do if our Guv'nuh then survives the night? The next day we're stuck listening to the same person try to convince us not to lynch him/her all over again?
I think either of the "put someone who is suspect in office" scenarios have problems.
Do all Guv'nuh elections take the full 24 hours? If not, under what circumstances are they accelerated?
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 21:08:03 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Nov 15, 2007 21:08:03 GMT -5
Vote Pleonast for Guv because I don't like the auto-lynch plan, but do think Pleo would be a good Guv. As as said earlier upthread.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 21:12:55 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Nov 15, 2007 21:12:55 GMT -5
Whoops, scratch my green question. I missed story's clarification upthread.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 21:16:59 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 15, 2007 21:16:59 GMT -5
*shakes her head sadly at our communal propensity for self-inflicted reading/analysis torture* So with atarus' revision of Pleo's proposal, we elect a Guv'nuh, and they then spend the duration of their time in office trying to convince everyone that they should not be the one who is lynched that day? What do we do if one of our Guv'nuh's does indeed convince enough of us not to lynch him/her, causing us to lynch someone else? What do we do if our Guv'nuh then survives the night? The next day we're stuck listening to the same person try to convince us not to lynch him/her all over again? No, I think that atarus' plan basically removes the WIFOM from the scenario. If the person in the Guv'ship is suspicious, he will be a lynch candidate along with other suspicious people. If he isn't killed by lynch or nightkill, he may remain suspicious but it won't unnecsarily complicate matters by him seeming tons *more* suspicious purely as a result of his being the Guv. Since he's not on auto-lynch pressure, he doesn't have to be a perpetual defender-of-self but we also don't unnecesarily create extra nightmares trying to sort out the implications.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 21:18:28 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 15, 2007 21:18:28 GMT -5
Apparently I can't spell 'necessarily'. Ah well.
OK I am off to bed but I will vote for Guv'nor in the morning after more folks have had a chance to have their say.
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 21:44:54 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Nov 15, 2007 21:44:54 GMT -5
And from the official player list, that means Kat should be governor. Color removed. If elected, I promise to do absolutely nothing. Unless I'm well bribed.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 21:59:59 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Nov 15, 2007 21:59:59 GMT -5
Just like any other politician, I see.
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Day One
Nov 15, 2007 22:16:55 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Nov 15, 2007 22:16:55 GMT -5
Roosh for Guv'nuh! so sayeth the d24.
Speech!
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