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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 14:31:39 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Dec 17, 2013 14:31:39 GMT -5
Actually, story, and I apologize because this is a little meta: I'm not saying Town should hold back on everything -- I'm saying there may be reasons a particular Town player wouldn't want to post their results. Some of us like to play things either close to our vests rather than right out in the open, whether or not we're Town or Scum. So making it "anti Town" not to say one has bid on/received a particular action isn't particularly productive, IMO. You'll have to take that last point up with Pleonast, as he's the one that's made that sort of secretive play anti-Town by designing the game as he has. Your meta-point, actually, is a fair point. There are players who want to play in a particular way regardless of whether or not it's "optimal" strategically, because it's more fun for them that way. I don't actually object to that at all - it's a game, and it should be fun - but I think it should be done with full recognition of the fact that it's not the best move strategicaly (in my opinion, of course; I might not be looking at it correctly). I am for the moment satisfied enough to: unvote Sister CoyoteDon't worry; I won't let it go to my head. :-)
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 15:44:14 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Dec 17, 2013 15:44:14 GMT -5
In a normal game, the power roles have to balance the information they have vs. how likely they are to be NK'd once their role is known. Here the power roles change every night, so that need for secrecy is gone. Just because I was the high bidder for tracker one night, does not even mean that I will bid on it the next night. I see no reason not to share information, and will look askance at those who do not share.
The timing for the sharing is always a little iffy to me. If you watched me and saw that Pleo was my only visitor and I end up dead in the morning, do you share that right away and have a bandwagon lynch with no real discussion during the Day? Do you wait and see what Pleo has to say or who votes/defends him? How long do you wait?
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 15:54:25 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Dec 17, 2013 15:54:25 GMT -5
To address your hypothetical, I'd probably go make a case on Pleo, see if it was getting traction, and if not THEN bring up my results. But, see, that's me.
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Meeko
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 16:42:08 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Dec 17, 2013 16:42:08 GMT -5
To address your hypothetical, I'd probably go make a case on Pleo, see if it was getting traction, and if not THEN bring up my results. But, see, that's me. I'm down with this. Vote: PleonastWhat do you mean I can't?
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 16:55:21 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Dec 17, 2013 16:55:21 GMT -5
One point penalty for voting for a non-player. Just kidding...
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 17:21:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by guiri on Dec 17, 2013 17:21:54 GMT -5
@ Swammer, did you ever explain the VT claim? Or unvote No Lynch?
@ Patricia, what are the odds Swammer is town this game?
@ Chameleon, why would you automatically unvote me if I remove my vote from Bill?
Re: bidding, could there be a way to game the bidding, at least for the extra kill? With just three scum, how much would they be willing to risk? If every townie bid, for example 30 for the kill, and this was public information, would that act as a deterrent?
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 17:56:01 GMT -5
Post by Captain Klutz on Dec 17, 2013 17:56:01 GMT -5
Oh - and I'm just going to say it right now, because my opinion on this is not popular but I want to express it early: I think the business of counting posts and voting for people on the basis of how often they've posted is a problematic thing. I have never seen in all the games I've played a consistent tendency for Scum to reside at the bottom of those lists - sometimes they do, but at no higher a rate than they place anywhere else on the list. I except outright nonparticipants from this, as they will have to be dealt with in this particular game lest they kill us with silence. This looks like it was aimed at me. I just want to point out that I was looking for people that were posting but not actually contributing. Note that those I ended up voting for were not actually the lowest volume posters.
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Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 19:56:51 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Dec 17, 2013 19:56:51 GMT -5
One point penalty for voting for a non-player. Just kidding...Not a player? That's not what your ex-girlfriend said when she dumped you. Wait, are you saying that you are a player in the game then?
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 19:57:12 GMT -5
Post by Chameleon on Dec 17, 2013 19:57:12 GMT -5
My question to the mod was answered and if we are killed via lottery because we're the highest bidder we die before we can reveal anything. So there's no point in martyring oneself in that way.
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Meeko
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 19:58:42 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Dec 17, 2013 19:58:42 GMT -5
Unvote: pleonast
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 20:00:21 GMT -5
Post by Chameleon on Dec 17, 2013 20:00:21 GMT -5
Guiri - your first vote wasn't a serious one and I voted for you to encourage a legitimate vote, so it only seems fair that I remove my vote when you change or remove yours.
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 21:10:05 GMT -5
Post by Mahaloth on Dec 17, 2013 21:10:05 GMT -5
Vote BillMC Vote Sister Coyote
Vote Chameleon
For voting to not lynch, which is what I think the scum would want.
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 21:10:46 GMT -5
Post by Mahaloth on Dec 17, 2013 21:10:46 GMT -5
Vote guiri as well for that ridiculous and still standing vote for Bill. I actually agree with killing Bill right now, but not because he duped us in the last game.
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 23:24:39 GMT -5
Post by Captain Klutz on Dec 17, 2013 23:24:39 GMT -5
Meeko's point about the percentage chance of a high bidder dying being the 2nd highest bid as opposed to the winning bid is a great one that I hadn't thought of. It makes it somewhat less risky to bid high - for example, if someone bids 50 on a power and the 2nd place bid is only 10 then the winner only has a 10% chance of dying and not 50%. Do I have that right? For this bidding system, the optimum is to bid the maximum of what you think it is worth: if you bid less than your maximum then someone else may win at a price that was less than you were willing to pay. But if you bid more then you may end up paying more than your maximum. So the optimum strategy is to bit what you think it is worth. However, that is for a competitive auction, where you either win the item, or get nothing. That is not the case here, for 2 reasons: - Bidding increases your risk of dying
- It doesn't really matter that much if someone else gets the item
Just to expand on that last point, as long as everything gets reported, there will be lots of info to parse. And the more info there is, the fewer places for Scum to hide. Note that in this game there are no roles that need to stay hidden from Scum. So it's difficult to see a reason to hide any Night results. Can anyone think of a scenario where it is pro Town to not even say whether you did anything the previous Night?
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 23:34:20 GMT -5
Post by Captain Klutz on Dec 17, 2013 23:34:20 GMT -5
Re: bidding, could there be a way to game the bidding, at least for the extra kill? With just three scum, how much would they be willing to risk? If every townie bid, for example 30 for the kill, and this was public information, would that act as a deterrent? In your example, it only takes 1 Townie to vote 30, and Scum would still have to bid high in order to win it. But I suspect that if Scum knew that Town was going to bid 30, then one of them would just bid 29. So Town wins the kill, at a dangerously high price, and is still reasonably likely to hit another Town player. In fact, one Scum strategy is to make very low bids. They will probably not win anything, but there is a good chance that some Townies will feel competitive and try to win some items, pushing up the prices paid. Even if a bunch of us restrain ourselves, it only takes 2 such competitve Townies to push up the prices. It's going to be a very interesting Day 2.
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Day One
Dec 17, 2013 23:46:43 GMT -5
Post by swammerdami on Dec 17, 2013 23:46:43 GMT -5
@ Swammer, did you ever explain the VT claim? Or unvote No Lynch? ... Re: bidding, could there be a way to game the bidding, at least for the extra kill? With just three scum, how much would they be willing to risk? If every townie bid, for example 30 for the kill, and this was public information, would that act as a deterrent? My "VT claim" was purely tongue-in-cheek. I may be a bad Mafia player but I do know enough to realize the claim was equivalent to "Hello." Since I do realize people don't "get" my sense of whimsy, I may need to plead guilty to masochism. I hope to be on-line near EOD. If No-Lynch is near the lead, I might remove the vote depending on the other candidate(s). I disagree strongly that Scum want No-Lynch toDay. To the contrary, chance is excellent a Townie will be Lynched with little or no scum exposure. Why would they want to avoid that? Your proposal about bidding for the extra Kill is extremely anti-Town. No one should want to pay much for the Kill unless they have a strong suspect to kill. Furthermore "every" Townie bidding 30 means the cost will certainly be 30; if instead only one Townie is confident enough to bid 30, he may win the bid for 25 or so. Scum lives are much more valuable to Scum than Town lives are to Town. For this reason I don't expect Scum to win many bids except for powers of little use to Town or, perhaps, Kill. Since most Vig-kills in early Days will be mis-Kills anyway, I don't expect Scum to bid much for Kill unless they have a hunch that a Townie is taking aim at one of them. For this bidding system, the optimum is to bid the maximum of what you think it is worth... Not quite. Even in competitive auctions, there's no profit in paying one's break-even price. And bids for Investigative powers should be cooperative since any Scum bids will be low. I have no simple prescription for Kill bids. Not only must one estimate the chance suspect is Scum, but also estimate the chance Town can be convinced to Lynch the suspect. It might be good if at least one Townie bids 25(?) or so for Kill, so Scum doesn't get a cheap Kill, but is there a way to arrange that publicly without helping Scum? Instead I think we can rely on a few Townies averting this danger privately and unilaterally.
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 2:08:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by guiri on Dec 18, 2013 2:08:54 GMT -5
Guiri - your first vote wasn't a serious one and I voted for you to encourage a legitimate vote, so it only seems fair that I remove my vote when you change or remove yours. I realize votes are cheap but when did this stop being a game about hunting scum and start being about punishing certain types of behavior or encouraging others? If joke voting Bill was a scummy action, unvoting him will not make it any less scummy. If your vote on me was a joke, how is that different to my vote on Bill? This is mafia, not obedience training. Anyway, and not because you're holding a stick over me, but because I want to Unvote: BillFor voting to not lynch, which is what I think the scum would want. Is it just a gut feeling or do you have thoughts on why scum would want this? Vote guiri as well for that ridiculous and still standing vote for Bill. I actually agree with killing Bill right now, but not because he duped us in the last game. Do you think my ridiculous vote is scummy? I hope to be on-line near EOD. If No-Lynch is near the lead, I might remove the vote depending on the other candidate(s). So you're effectively not voting anyone right now side your no lynch is cancelling out your other votes? Do you want to lynch someone, or not? If you don't agree with the top lynch candidate, why not propose an alternative rather than lynch no-one? Oh, and what's "extremely anti-town" about asking if there's a way to game the bidding to favor town? Where did I make a proposal? Vote: PatriciaFor giving three reasons for voting Swammer on page 1, feels like scum over-explaining, especially when someone else just voted him for the no lynch vote.
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 3:11:33 GMT -5
Post by swammerdami on Dec 18, 2013 3:11:33 GMT -5
I hope to be on-line near EOD. If No-Lynch is near the lead, I might remove the vote depending on the other candidate(s). So you're effectively not voting anyone right now side your no lynch is cancelling out your other votes? Do you want to lynch someone, or not? If you don't agree with the top lynch candidate, why not propose an alternative rather than lynch no-one? Oh, and what's "extremely anti-town" about asking if there's a way to game the bidding to favor town? Where did I make a proposal? Why does my No-Lynch vote cancel the other votes? (BTW, is there a vote-counting script here like Giraffe's?) I do have Lynch-Player votes in place, but no strong feelings. (Mahaloth seems especially Scummy, but -- no offense Maha -- I always get Scummy vibes from him.) I'm sorry if you took offense to "extremely anti-Town"; if I were impugning you rather than the proposal I'd have voted you. I do think it's good to come up with pro-Town bidding policies, but felt your "proposal" was bad. (And do let's not quibble semantics about whether the idea you proposed was a "proposal" or not.)
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 4:24:07 GMT -5
Post by Chameleon on Dec 18, 2013 4:24:07 GMT -5
I agree with Swammerdami in that I think Scum would definitely want a lynch today, unless the top candidate is Scum. There's a much higher chance that Town will lynch one of their own, so waiting a day to get more information seems quite reasonable.
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 10:17:15 GMT -5
Post by swammerdami on Dec 18, 2013 10:17:15 GMT -5
Day One will end on Wed 18 Dec at 12n PT. Gak! That's 3 AM in my timezone. It's already almost my bedtime. Is there a vote-counting script? I'll try to prepare a vote summary if not, but I'm lazy....
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 10:27:22 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Dec 18, 2013 10:27:22 GMT -5
Day One will end on Wed 18 Dec at 12n PT. Gak! That's 3 AM in my timezone. It's already almost my bedtime. Is there a vote-counting script? I'll try to prepare a vote summary if not, but I'm lazy.... You can always look in the vote-count thread.
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 10:46:38 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Dec 18, 2013 10:46:38 GMT -5
Unvote: Mahaloth
Vote: Guiri
His post above seems overly defensive and his vote for Patricia is unconvincing.
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 11:19:59 GMT -5
Post by swammerdami on Dec 18, 2013 11:19:59 GMT -5
Color me stupid. Unvote: No Lynch
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 12:18:59 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Dec 18, 2013 12:18:59 GMT -5
Why does my No-Lynch vote cancel the other votes? It cancels out your own votes, you're voting against yourself. I'm sorry if you took offense to "extremely anti-Town"; if I were impugning you rather than the proposal I'd have voted you. What? Can you explain the difference as it applies to a game of mafia? His post above seems overly defensive and his vote for Patricia is unconvincing. Lets see if I hit an acceptable level of defensive: since when is an unconvincing vote reason to vote someone, or are you just mentioning that in passing?
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 12:43:10 GMT -5
Post by swammerdami on Dec 18, 2013 12:43:10 GMT -5
This is a multi-vote game. I might vote both Smith and Jones if I'm happy to see either Lynched, perhaps unVoting one at EOD if I have a preference. I voted Lynch Chameleon and No Lynch since either result seemed acceptable. I unVoted No Lynch to see what happens. I'm not sure of your other question, guiri. Townies make anti-Town suggestions all the time, perhaps just to open discussion. (In fact making anti-Town suggestions may be a Town tell! ... Scum doesn't dare.)
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 13:11:32 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by guiri on Dec 18, 2013 13:11:32 GMT -5
This is a multi-vote game. I might vote both Smith and Jones if I'm happy to see either Lynched, perhaps unVoting one at EOD if I have a preference. I voted Lynch Chameleon and No Lynch since either result seemed acceptable. I unVoted No Lynch to see what happens. I'm not sure of your other question, guiri. Townies make anti-Town suggestions all the time, perhaps just to open discussion. (In fact making anti-Town suggestions may be a Town tell! ... Scum doesn't dare.) I may not be explaining myself well but it's one thing to vote two or more different players, happy if either is lynched, and a whole different thing to vote no lynch AND one or more players at the same time. Either you want to lynch someone, or you don't, but you can't both want to lynch someone and want no lynch at the same time, can you? I'm aware of the anti-town vs scum distinction, but where's the line between "making anti-town suggestions" which you say is not vote-worthy, and "being anti-town", which you say is worth a vote?
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 13:15:20 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Dec 18, 2013 13:15:20 GMT -5
Unvote: No Lynch
Vote: Mahaloth
Look, Maha, if you want to vote me for voting No Lynch that's fine, but I gave a specific reason for my doing so. Whereas I think you latched on to something that's easy to vote people for. As others have discussed, in this game there are potentially pro-Town reasons for voting No Lynch. But a blanket vote for "what Scum would want?" Uh-uh.
Especially when you consider that I specifically stated I was voting "no lynch" to cover my own ass so I didn't pick up a penalty.
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 14:11:04 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Dec 18, 2013 14:11:04 GMT -5
Vote: Colby
Lurking scumbag who's the only player who hasn't been voted toDay../
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 14:38:20 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Dec 18, 2013 14:38:20 GMT -5
I know I could be lynched for this but a no lynch vote just makes my hackles rise. gnarly hasn't bothered to come to the party again even though I voted for for him. I expected him to come back with claws bared. I don't want a "no lynch" vote, even if we end up killing a Townie, that is our strenght, scum will also push for a vote but I don't want to give them the edge. If a scum votes for a Townie on D1 it will come up in later analasys. I am actually happy with my vote at the moment.
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Day One
Dec 18, 2013 15:02:08 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Dec 18, 2013 15:02:08 GMT -5
Day One is over.
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