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Post by Pleonast on Jan 3, 2014 15:13:40 GMT -5
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Post by guiri on Jan 3, 2014 15:22:27 GMT -5
Good shooting!
Yay!
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Post by Pleonast on Jan 3, 2014 15:23:20 GMT -5
Scum lost because of great insight (or luck?) from several town players. Story was investigated, gnarly was targeted to be killed, and Meeko was killed.
I'm going to have to remove the blocking on players who don't vote. That's too unbalancing. I put it in to avoid the problem of an absent scum making the Night kills due to the other scum making the decision. Unfortunately, massive collusion by players can effectively stop the scum kill. so I'll have to go back letting absent scum make kills.
Manipulating the bidding is working-as-intended gameplay. Scum can collude with their bids early in the game and town can collude at the end. Just something that players will have to consider.
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Post by guiri on Jan 3, 2014 15:55:22 GMT -5
Great insight for sure. Swammer self-protected and prevented a Vig kill, gnarly self-protected and prevented a second Vig kill,
"Mahaloth: You win the auction for investigate and 19. BillMc is Scum." would have been fun!
@ SisterCoyote, were you told you didn't kill gnarly? "Sister Coyote: You win the auction for kill and pay 35. You fail to kill gnarlycharlie."
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Post by texcat on Jan 3, 2014 15:57:04 GMT -5
Well done, Mahaloth!
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Post by Captain Klutz on Jan 3, 2014 17:37:16 GMT -5
Pleo, thanks for the game, Very original and interesting.
Yes, no vote = cannot do the Scum kill was a bit unbalancing. I also felt that no vote = cannot bid was a bit unnecessary. Failure to vote should really be punished by the players rather than the game.
I'd lke to see this setup run again, although as a spectator (I won't be able to stop myself from making elaborate plans).
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Post by Captain Klutz on Jan 3, 2014 17:39:22 GMT -5
Nice to have a win. This improves my overall win/loss record from appalling to merely terrible.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 3, 2014 17:41:33 GMT -5
Great insight for sure. Swammer self-protected and prevented a Vig kill, gnarly self-protected and prevented a second Vig kill, "Mahaloth: You win the auction for investigate and 19. BillMc is Scum." would have been fun! @ SisterCoyote, were you told you didn't kill gnarly? "Sister Coyote: You win the auction for kill and pay 35. You fail to kill gnarlycharlie." Yes, absolutely. And I had to clarify with Pleo when I saw he was dead anyway. Go back and read what I said, though. I never claimed to Kill Charlie.
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Post by Mahaloth on Jan 3, 2014 18:15:16 GMT -5
:bows:
Yes!!!
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Post by Mahaloth on Jan 3, 2014 18:19:27 GMT -5
I'm going to quote Meeko from the scum board. Hey, nothing was personal at all, Meeko. Don't forget that it was I that invited you to your very first mafia game over on the Dope(after our game of haggle). Certainly no one else who has played with you will ever let me forget that it was me who got you into it. Good game, my friend.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 3, 2014 18:22:04 GMT -5
I figured the game was over from the moment gnarly died.
I figured I had to act town tonight.
But, ..... What gives on you shooting Mahaloth? Did you go against stated plans here?
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Post by Captain Klutz on Jan 3, 2014 18:22:21 GMT -5
Yes, absolutely. And I had to clarify with Pleo when I saw he was dead anyway. Go back and read what I said, though. I never claimed to Kill Charlie. That's one heck of a technicality. If you had said that you had failed to kill Charlie, that would have made the Night kills work out. The apparent "missing" kill caused a fair bit of confusion (for me, anyway). With all the subsequent discussion, your failure to clarify does constitute a lie by omission. Something Town should not be doing.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 3, 2014 18:26:14 GMT -5
I guess I'm actually asking a question;
Was it my best play to do nothing last night?
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Post by Meeko on Jan 3, 2014 18:27:36 GMT -5
Siscoyote why were you so .... Cryptic to town?
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Post by Meeko on Jan 3, 2014 18:31:43 GMT -5
Pleo, thanks for the game, Very original and interesting. Yes, no vote = cannot do the Scum kill was a bit unbalancing. I also felt that no vote = cannot bid was a bit unnecessary. Failure to vote should really be punished by the players rather than the game. I'd lke to see this setup run again, although as a spectator (I won't be able to stop myself from making elaborate plans). Klutz, if you are anything like me, even being a spectator, won't stop,you from making plans. In fact, they can lock you in a padded cell, complete with straightjacket, and you'll still be playing.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 3, 2014 18:33:39 GMT -5
I guess I'm actually asking a question; Was it my best play to do nothing last night? Not that it mattered.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Jan 3, 2014 19:05:38 GMT -5
Klutz, if you are anything like me, even being a spectator, won't stop,you from making plans. In fact, they can lock you in a padded cell, complete with straightjacket, and you'll still be playing. Heh. Yes, I'll still be thinking of things, but not quite so intently.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 3, 2014 20:00:18 GMT -5
Meeko: I dunno. Bored with being straightforward about things?
And there was, technically, no "extra" kill, Cap't. There was the Scum Kill, and Gnarly's death. I don't know why you thought there should have been three, or only one.
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Post by Mahaloth on Jan 3, 2014 20:22:45 GMT -5
But, ..... What gives on you shooting Mahaloth? Did you go against stated plans here? I guess I wasn't clear on the plan. I pretty much planned on shooting like I did the night before(though not at you) and I wagered a fairly high amount, risking killing myself and pushing town closer to losing.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 3, 2014 20:59:17 GMT -5
But, ..... What gives on you shooting Mahaloth? Did you go against stated plans here? I guess I wasn't clear on the plan. I pretty much planned on shooting like I did the night before(though not at you) and I wagered a fairly high amount, risking killing myself and pushing town closer to losing. I mean, I thought all the good townies were going to not bid on anything. How else can Meeko as townie join in, then? The sheer fact you bid to kill me, means you had no intention on following Klutz's idea in the first place? I planned on you guys not doing that, but I didn't think it would be to my detriment. Also, you notice now, that I did indeed investigate gnarly? ..... How could I have played that anyway differently than I did?
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Post by Mahaloth on Jan 3, 2014 21:21:32 GMT -5
Also, you notice now, that I did indeed investigate gnarly? ..... How could I have played that anyway differently than I did? I wouldn't have thought anything or killed you if you had arrived immediately and announced your investigation and laughed off the fact it was the guy who died.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 3, 2014 21:23:48 GMT -5
Also, you notice now, that I did indeed investigate gnarly? ..... How could I have played that anyway differently than I did? I wouldn't have thought anything or killed you if you had arrived immediately and announced your investigation and laughed off the fact it was the guy who died. Yeah, but someone else would pick up the hunt then though.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Jan 3, 2014 22:33:21 GMT -5
Meeko: I dunno. Bored with being straightforward about things? And there was, technically, no "extra" kill, Cap't. There was the Scum Kill, and Gnarly's death. I don't know why you thought there should have been three, or only one. The "extra kill" was explaind in the thread, so I don't see your confusion. But here it is again: In addition to the normal 2 Night kills, the level of bidding strongly suggested a death due to bidding. For there to have been just 2 deaths, there were 3 possibilities: 1. Doubling up of targets 2. A successful block/protect 3. Great good luck in the bid death lottery Your (apparent) claim that you killed gnarly made it tough to unravel. If you had simply said that you targeted gnarly but he survived, that would have made everything clear: gnarly was Protected but died from bidding, swammer was the Scum kill. That gives us information on Scum strategy. It also would have made you look more Townie. Oh, and if you don't want to be straightforward about things: fine, just be aware that it makes you look Scummy. Then again, my normal play makes me look Scummy, Heck, last Night BillMc tried to kill me. Which surprised me a bit.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Jan 3, 2014 22:39:56 GMT -5
Also, you notice now, that I did indeed investigate gnarly? ..... How could I have played that anyway differently than I did? The problem was that you were so late to claim it. The Day had been going for a day and a half and you were the last to come forward. So there was nothing stopping you from making up anything you liked about any on the unclaimed powers. If you had been Watched visiting gnarly, that would have given you some Town cred (in my eyes at least).
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Post by Mahaloth on Jan 3, 2014 22:41:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't have thought anything or killed you if you had arrived immediately and announced your investigation and laughed off the fact it was the guy who died. Yeah, but someone else would pick up the hunt then though. Would they? How much heat were you drawing before that point? My suspicions did not even get you lynched.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 4, 2014 1:25:49 GMT -5
Also, you notice now, that I did indeed investigate gnarly? ..... How could I have played that anyway differently than I did? The problem was that you were so late to claim it. The Day had been going for a day and a half and you were the last to come forward. So there was nothing stopping you from making up anything you liked about any on the unclaimed powers. If you had been Watched visiting gnarly, that would have given you some Town cred (in my eyes at least). I was openly hoping for it over on the scum boards. But again, what difference does it make when I claimed it? I sooooooo do t get this. There was nothing to be done with the information, so why are you guys pretending like timing was an issue?
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Post by Captain Klutz on Jan 4, 2014 2:25:38 GMT -5
But again, what difference does it make when I claimed it? I sooooooo do t get this. There was nothing to be done with the information, so why are you guys pretending like timing was an issue? It's an issue because a late claim is easier to fake as there is more information available. You were the last to report on your actions, so everything else was already out there. Investigate (among other things) had not been claimed. So when you claimed it, we couldn't tell if is was genuine or not. I mean, you could simply claim any of the unclaimed actions without fear of contradiction. But I'm curious - if gnarly hadn't died that Night, would you have exposed him as Scum?
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 4, 2014 11:32:58 GMT -5
But again, what difference does it make when I claimed it? I sooooooo do t get this. There was nothing to be done with the information, so why are you guys pretending like timing was an issue? It's an issue because a late claim is easier to fake as there is more information available. You were the last to report on your actions, so everything else was already out there. Investigate (among other things) had not been claimed. So when you claimed it, we couldn't tell if is was genuine or not. I mean, you could simply claim any of the unclaimed actions without fear of contradiction. But I'm curious - if gnarly hadn't died that Night, would you have exposed him as Scum? I was going to expose him as town. :-)
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Jan 6, 2014 0:11:48 GMT -5
good game! we were unlucky this game but i won't take anything away from town.
interesting setup, Pleo. this can be played over and over again. thanks for the game.
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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Jan 6, 2014 11:53:45 GMT -5
I kind of wonder, with power roles being so variable and inconstant, what would have to happen for the mafia to win in a game like this. As in a normal game, the voting record will get tighter and tighter around the mafia as the game gets closer to the end (RIP, Twilight Lady), but the mafia don't have the advantage of being able to root out the cop and the doc and take them out. Everyone's the cop and the doc. They could try bidding on those powers to help prevent the town using them effectively, but bidding is more dangerous for scum than town (since they have significantly fewer members, a loss of one scum is much more dangerous than a loss of one townie). The converse is true too, since the town can afford to be less conservative with their bidding and effectively lock out the scum from their own powers. In the lategame, a town player could essentially bid 100 on any power they think the scum will be wanting to use but not the town, relatively confident that they'll be the only one bidding town player bidding while the scum bid conservatively out of caution, thus preventing blocks and obfuscations from the scum with a low chance of dying themselves.
Or maybe I'm wrong and have misread strategy and setup (full disclosure, I've only been kind of following the game), but it seems a little bleak from the mafia side.
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