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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Feb 10, 2014 13:29:18 GMT -5
Morning is here; everyone is alive that was alive yesterday.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 10, 2014 14:32:25 GMT -5
That's good!
I know I said I was going to vote for Pleo but that was out of frustration, I don't know what to say to him anymore. Anyway, it might be a better strategy to start lynching Townies that need other Townies dead except that just might wipe out Town.
Does anyone need Captain Klutz lynched? His target is dead already, the Jack of all Trades, my target is dead, I can't remember all the rest and there is an awful lot to read back on. Swammer needs me dead, I think story needs swammer dead. It's going to be tough.
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 10, 2014 14:43:08 GMT -5
Someone needs Klutz dead, yes. And we can't just straight away lynch scum or I bet a good portion of you will loose. Bill needed story dead, too, iirc.
I'm waiting on Meeko before we reveal who we blocked.
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 10, 2014 16:37:19 GMT -5
This is why we should have let someone die last night
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Feb 10, 2014 17:02:56 GMT -5
Holy sh*tballs, I didn't get blocked!
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 10, 2014 17:57:02 GMT -5
I have a result from last Night. I'll reveal it a bit later toDay.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 10, 2014 18:04:04 GMT -5
That's good! I know I said I was going to vote for Pleo but that was out of frustration, I don't know what to say to him anymore. Anyway, it might be a better strategy to start lynching Townies that need other Townies dead except that just might wipe out Town. Does anyone need Captain Klutz lynched? His target is dead already, the Jack of all Trades, my target is dead, I can't remember all the rest and there is an awful lot to read back on. Swammer needs me dead, I think story needs swammer dead. It's going to be tough. I'm very uncomfortable with deliberate mislynches until we are clear on who the remaining scum is/are. Until we can get a clear picture, I would prefer to either lynch Pleonast or No Lynch. Note that if Pleonast is the last scum then that means there were only 3 initial scum. That seems too few for an 18 player game, even if you count guiri as half a scum. So I think that there are 2 remaining scum.
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 10, 2014 19:40:56 GMT -5
That's good! I know I said I was going to vote for Pleo but that was out of frustration, I don't know what to say to him anymore. Anyway, it might be a better strategy to start lynching Townies that need other Townies dead except that just might wipe out Town. Does anyone need Captain Klutz lynched? His target is dead already, the Jack of all Trades, my target is dead, I can't remember all the rest and there is an awful lot to read back on. Swammer needs me dead, I think story needs swammer dead. It's going to be tough. I'm very uncomfortable with deliberate mislynches until we are clear on who the remaining scum is/are. Until we can get a clear picture, I would prefer to either lynch Pleonast or No Lynch. Note that if Pleonast is the last scum then that means there were only 3 initial scum. That seems too few for an 18 player game, even if you count guiri as half a scum. So I think that there are 2 remaining scum. Doesn't change the fact no one died. I'd prefer no lynching until we have things nailed down (personally), and with 18 players, a recruitable, and a three man third party team, I'd say chances are good we are looking at a three man scum team.
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Post by swammerdami on Feb 10, 2014 20:05:24 GMT -5
I agree with Captain Klutz that there is no rush to Lynch; we should take our time and let our Detectives investigate Players -- and hope for an optimal win with as many special wins fulfilled as possible. My fear is that a remaining Scum has a Godfather Power and will not show up to Investigation. Perhaps that's unlikely -- is it good balance to have both a Scum Godfather and a Scum Lawyer? -- but it's the one case that may throw off our calculations.
With three 3rd-parties and their two Kills, and a Defector to boot, I think it's likely that there is only one Scum left. My problem is ... I can't guess who that Scum is; everyone seems Townie to me!
To simplify our chore, I think that everyone should announce their names, nationalities and special targets now.
And, why don't we go to a faster schedule for this easyish ending? Perhaps 2-day Days and 1-day Nights? Otherwise it may take a long while to get down to a 3-player ending, especially if the Scum NK is blocked and we follow Captain's advice with No-Lynches.
BTW, I may reveal my Town Power role toDay, but will do that in a separate post.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 10, 2014 23:00:02 GMT -5
I agree with Captain Klutz that there is no rush to Lynch; we should take our time and let our Detectives investigate Players -- and hope for an optimal win with as many special wins fulfilled as possible. My fear is that a remaining Scum has a Godfather Power and will not show up to Investigation. Perhaps that's unlikely -- is it good balance to have both a Scum Godfather and a Scum Lawyer? -- but it's the one case that may throw off our calculations. I am also concerned about the possibility of a Godfather. The presence of a Framer/Lawyer would seem to make a Godfather unnecessary, as they can make any player into a Miller or Godfather. However, a Miller did show up, so I think a Godfather is a definite possibility. Which makes my investigations perhaps useless, but I'll keep doing them just in case. So we should look at using the daily investigate ability to see if we can find a Godfather. Although I'm not real sure if "Godfather" is actually a role that would/could be revealed.
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 10, 2014 23:20:02 GMT -5
I find a godfather unlikely with a lawyer/framer in the mix with the added benefit of a cop that's likely *insane/mad/whatever*. When you already have several layers of misdirection you don't need a godfather.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 11, 2014 1:08:33 GMT -5
I find a godfather unlikely with a lawyer/framer in the mix with the added benefit of a cop that's likely *insane/mad/whatever*. When you already have several layers of misdirection you don't need a godfather. I thought that too. However, the same arguement applies to a Miller. We definitely had one of those, so I am not ruling out a Godfather. The multiple layers of misdirection are ... interesting. Not many games where a Mad Cop might investigate a Framed Miller.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Feb 11, 2014 1:24:52 GMT -5
Someone needs Klutz dead, yes. And we can't just straight away lynch scum or I bet a good portion of you will loose. Bill needed story dead, too, iirc. I'm waiting on Meeko before we reveal who we blocked. You rang? /Lurch
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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Feb 11, 2014 2:12:11 GMT -5
And, why don't we go to a faster schedule for this easyish ending? Perhaps 2-day Days and 1-day Nights? Otherwise it may take a long while to get down to a 3-player ending, especially if the Scum NK is blocked and we follow Captain's advice with No-Lynches If the majority or a decent plurality of players would like to see shorter gamedays, I can accommodate that.
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 11, 2014 3:33:04 GMT -5
I'm find with shorter days, but not everyone may be able to do it.
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 11, 2014 3:50:32 GMT -5
I'm very uncomfortable with deliberate mislynches until we are clear on who the remaining scum is/are. Until we can get a clear picture, I would prefer to either lynch Pleonast or No Lynch. Note that if Pleonast is the last scum then that means there were only 3 initial scum. That seems too few for an 18 player game, even if you count guiri as half a scum. So I think that there are 2 remaining scum. Keep in mind that there are at least 3 third party players who are not threats to Town or Scum. That leaves 15 and from what I understand a 1:4 ratio of Scum to Town is pretty standard. So 3 Scum to 12 Town would seem about right. That said it still wouldn't surprise me if there's another 3rd party player out there. If you lynch Pleo today and he's Scum, and if there isn't a threatening third party then Town will probably win, with most players losing because their individual conditions weren't achieved. If we don't allow the night kills and we vote no lynch every day then this game will never end. Players need to die - and right now it can't be the last Scum. As I said before, I don't care whether I'm killed or not, but killing Paranoia and myself (presuming no one needs us dead) does nothing to help individuals make their personal win conditions. Essentially it's probably necessary to mislynch.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 11, 2014 5:37:04 GMT -5
I'm fine with shorter Days.
Chameleon, what is your actual wincon? I'm just trying to think of actual ways for most people to get their wincon and so far all the ideas I have had won't work so it might be helpful to know the 3rd Parties wincon.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 11, 2014 10:51:42 GMT -5
I think the third-parties already stated their victory conditions: they need 15 players to be dead.
I'm going to keep voting for who I think is scum. vote Silver Jan
If the rest of you want to deliberately mislynch, I can't stop you, but I think it's a poor way to play mafia. If you think I'm scum, then vote for me. Mislynching someone you think is scum is far better than mislynching someone you think is town.
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Post by swammerdami on Feb 11, 2014 12:02:42 GMT -5
Role claim. I am "a town-aligned alignment-cop." (In fact that paragraph of my role message is identical to the one posted by Captain Klutz.) I didn't claim earlier because I had no useful results to report. And I still have minimal useful results to report. I'm claiming now just for clarity, and so that Klutz and I can avoid redundant investigations in future. I think Klutz gets results which are always wrong, and I get results which are always correct -- subject to any interference by Lawyer or Godfather. On Night 1 I learned that Texcat was 3rd Party. Night 2 I learned that Pleonast was Town. Night 3 I learned that Paranoia was 3rd Party. I asked for clarity ( Does "third party" exclude the possibility of "playing for keeps"?) and was answered with Yes. Third Party and PFK are separate alignments.I breadcrumbed each result to guard against my untimely demise. For example, on Day 4 I am paranoid we have a 3rd-party Killer. When we learned that we had a Scum Lawyer, I wondered if my result on Pleonast was valid. Perhaps he lawyered-up Night 2. Or perhaps he's Godfather. Other than Suburban Plankton, Pleonast and Chameleon, I felt that other Players had strong Town tells. If there is Scum hiding among the soft-cleared Players ... congratulations! Based in part on vote analysis, I decided that if Plankton were Scum, Chameleon might be also. Since this game features double-crossing agents I'll throw out a possibility: Could it be that Chameleon is a Scum with access, under pretense, to the 3rd Party board?Although my first three Investigations may have accomplished little, I'm not sure they were bad choices. However, my choice for Night 4 may have been downright stupid. It's so embarrassing, in fact, that I'll wait before revealing it.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 11, 2014 13:05:49 GMT -5
I think the third-parties already stated their victory conditions: they need 15 players to be dead. I'm going to keep voting for who I think is scum. vote Silver JanIf the rest of you want to deliberately mislynch, I can't stop you, but I think it's a poor way to play mafia. If you think I'm scum, then vote for me. Mislynching someone you think is scum is far better than mislynching someone you think is town. For goodness sakes!!!! You are doing my bloody head in, I cannot believe you are so stubborn. Is swammer scum too cos he needs me dead for him to win? How the hell can I get through to you that I am Town? I was the 1st vote on Patricia, I picked up on the funny capitalisation of her PM which I brought up when you claimed. It wouldn't be such a bad thing for swammer if I die cos at least he gets his wincon. Why would scum need the extra investagative results??? Don't they already know who is Town? If scum needed each other dead I am sure they could have asked each other on their private boards, if it was a particular Townie that they needed dead, well that just seems whacked cos they need most of Town dead anyway. You are so infuriating.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 11, 2014 16:41:07 GMT -5
How the hell can I get through to you that I am Town? This question shows precisely why I think you're scum. Townies look for scum; if they get lynched, oh well, these things happen. It doesn't matter because we win when we've lynched all the scum. There's little incentive for town to convince others of their alignment, compared to trying to find scum. This is especially true in this game, because right now we have mislynches to burn. Why are you trying to convince me that you're town? You've spent most of this game A) trying to convince everyone how useful you are for town if we keep you alive, B) making up stuff to discredit the one player who's been calling you out. These are not things that a town player does. Why are you focusing all your attention on me, if not because I'm the one calling you scum? You have nothing to say about any other players than "they're not scum"? A first vote on scum doesn't mean much. Scum often bus each other, and a single vote is perfect for later distancing oneself from the other scum. And you are distancing yourself from patricia. Your power could be very useful to scum, since they typically only know who's not scum. I see no reason to assume they have the additional information (like nationality or name or role) that you uncover. However your question Why would scum need the extra investagative results??? seems to imply otherwise. Why do you think that scum have no need for extra investigative results? Why did you ask this question? In short, your play is consistent with being scum and not consistent with being town.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 11, 2014 16:42:01 GMT -5
Keep in mind that there are at least 3 third party players who are not threats to Town or Scum. That leaves 15 and from what I understand a 1:4 ratio of Scum to Town is pretty standard. So 3 Scum to 12 Town would seem about right. That said it still wouldn't surprise me if there's another 3rd party player out there. If you lynch Pleo today and he's Scum, and if there isn't a threatening third party then Town will probably win, with most players losing because their individual conditions weren't achieved. If we don't allow the night kills and we vote no lynch every day then this game will never end. Players need to die - and right now it can't be the last Scum. As I said before, I don't care whether I'm killed or not, but killing Paranoia and myself (presuming no one needs us dead) does nothing to help individuals make their personal win conditions. Essentially it's probably necessary to mislynch. The 1:4 ratio is between scum and non-scum, rather than between scum and town. It depends on the nature of third parties, but if they are not a threat to scum then they are essentially town as far as scum is concerned. So 3 scum to 15 non scum is not enough. If guiri had switched sides the ratio would be 4 to 14, which is still slighlty low. So I think there are indeed 2 remaining scum. As for mislynches: we will eventually, but not until we are confident with what we have. Swammer's result on Pleonast is certainly interesting. So toDay I will vote Vote: No LynchWe will have toDay's investigation, and 2 investigations toNight. It won't take long to get everybody.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 11, 2014 16:54:07 GMT -5
When we learned that we had a Scum Lawyer, I wondered if my result on Pleonast was valid. Perhaps he lawyered-up Night 2. Or perhaps he's Godfather. Other than Suburban Plankton, Pleonast and Chameleon, I felt that other Players had strong Town tells. If there is Scum hiding among the soft-cleared Players ... congratulations! Based in part on vote analysis, I decided that if Plankton were Scum, Chameleon might be also. Since this game features double-crossing agents I'll throw out a possibility: Could it be that Chameleon is a Scum with access, under pretense, to the 3rd Party board?Night 2 is the only one where the Framer/Lawyer's presence is unknown, so I suggest that toNight I investigate Pleonast and you investigate Silver Jan. Or even Chameleon, if you are that suspicious. I don't think Pleaonast is the godfather, as I actually think that storyteller is the godfather (yes, I still have a bee in my bonnet about storyteller). I really want to investigate him toDay. A boosted investigation, with one thing already revealed, stands a good chance of learning his role. Or (perhaps) alignment). I know he has said that he does not want to reveal his role. I'm having difficulty seeing what town role he could have that would be so valuable at this late stage to require keeping hidden. Investigate: storyteller
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 11, 2014 18:47:42 GMT -5
Come to think of it, maybe we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone by investigating Pleonast instead. If he turns up as godfather then that clears storyteller and removes the need for another Pleonast investigation toNight. And since we already have 2 pieces of intelligence on him, there is a better chance of a result.
Uninvestigate: storyteller
Investigate: Pleonast
I'll also reveal last Night's investigation result: "You have determined that Storyteller0910 is aligned with the mafia."
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 11, 2014 20:01:46 GMT -5
Someone needs Klutz dead, yes. And we can't just straight away lynch scum or I bet a good portion of you will loose. Bill needed story dead, too, iirc. I'm waiting on Meeko before we reveal who we blocked. You rang? /Lurch Who did you block, Meeko?
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 11, 2014 20:03:23 GMT -5
Vote: no lynch
I note that if pleo is town he just wants the game over asap so he has a better chance of winning as opposed to the rest of the town.
investigate: Pleonast
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 11, 2014 22:10:05 GMT -5
That's it, 100%, apart from the address for our private board. We are completely non-affiliated. We don't care who wins as long as 15 people are dead. The only thing that makes us want to help Town is because we would probably lose if Scum win because they control the vote, but that doesn't look like it will happen now. My main interest at this point is that every Town meet their win condition as that will probably secure ours. If the last Scum is amazing and manages to kill all the Townies that's fine with me too. So no, the game is not 3 Scum vs. 15 non-Scum. It's probably something more like 3 Scum vs. 11 or 12 Town, possibly 1 PFK and the 3-player "we don't give a shit who wins" (truly) third party team. You can believe me or not - my death helps my win condition, but doesn't really help any of yours.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 12, 2014 0:53:13 GMT -5
Come to think of it, maybe we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone by investigating Pleonast instead. If he turns up as godfather then that clears storyteller and removes the need for another Pleonast investigation toNight. And since we already have 2 pieces of intelligence on him, there is a better chance of a result. Uninvestigate: storytellerInvestigate: PleonastI'll also reveal last Night's investigation result: "You have determined that Storyteller0910 is aligned with the mafia." Why do you think story is still scum as all your investigations have come up "Mafia" and we know that's not true, do you suddenly think you have different results, I would have been more worried if the result was Town. Vote: Vote No LynchInvestigate PleonastI still think he is the most likely remaing scum player, he is the only one that doesn't need anyone dead, all the rest are cross referenced except for the 3rd Parties and I think that they can help us at the moment. I have wondered if they a pulling a con trick and they are scum but then why involve Texcat in that?
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Post by swammerdami on Feb 12, 2014 2:33:02 GMT -5
I think it's time for all Secrets to be Revealed.
Who are you all, really, and what were you before? What did you do and who did you target, huh? ... and what's your special win-con?
I reveal my final secret. My target last night was ... Pleonast again. He still reports back as Town. I'd gotten so infatuated with the idea that everyone else was soft-cleared and Patricia might have Lawyered Pleo, that I stubbornly reInvestigated, dismissing the possibility of Godfather.
I hope we agree to shorten the Days. Still, if someone is lacking in Doctor or Investigation power, is unlikely to be the last Scum, has a Townie waiting for her demise, then it saves a No Lynch/Investigate cycle to off her now. Sorry, Jan. Nothing personal.
Vote: Silver Jan
ToNight I'll Investigate Chameleon (or perhaps Klutz). Klutz will you Investigate Meeko or Colby (or Swammi)?
Exalt for first to identify above quote.
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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Feb 12, 2014 3:42:41 GMT -5
Unless anyone poses an objection between now and then, the end of this Day will be on Wednesday the 12th at 9:00 PM.
Votes: No Lynch [3]: Captain Klutz (21), Paranoia (25), Silver Jan (27) Silver Jan [2]: Pleonast (17), Swammerdami (28)
Investigations: Pleonast [3]: Captain Klutz (23), Paranoia (25), Silver Jan (27) Storyteller0910 [0]: Captain Klutz (22)
With these votes, no player will be lynched and Pleonast will be investigated.
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