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Post by Chameleon on Feb 12, 2014 4:18:13 GMT -5
Investigate me if you want Swammer, but you will be wasting the investigation as you will just find what I already posted. I'm not trying to hide anything at this point. We really need to find out who was blocked and/or protected last night. It's reasonable to speculate that one of the blocked players might be Scum since no one died last night. I am also aware that Scum could be very clever and decided not to kill anyone last night. So would anyone like to volunteer that they were blocked?
I don't think a no lynch helps us right now. I will think on this some more because, if by some chance, SilverJan is our last Scum, most of us will lose. However I still think it's unlikely that Town would need a Scum dead due to redundancy.
Vote: SilverJan
Antivote: No Lynch (if I can do that)
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 12, 2014 5:49:21 GMT -5
I am not going to fight against my Lynch toDay because I would like swammer to get his wincon, I can't bring myself to vote for me though.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 12, 2014 7:30:28 GMT -5
I think it's time for all Secrets to be Revealed. Who are you all, really, and what were you before? What did you do and who did you target, huh? ... and what's your special win-con? I reveal my final secret. My target last night was ... Pleonast again. He still reports back as Town. I'd gotten so infatuated with the idea that everyone else was soft-cleared and Patricia might have Lawyered Pleo, that I stubbornly reInvestigated, dismissing the possibility of Godfather. I hope we agree to shorten the Days. Still, if someone is lacking in Doctor or Investigation power, is unlikely to be the last Scum, has a Townie waiting for her demise, then it saves a No Lynch/Investigate cycle to off her now. Sorry, Jan. Nothing personal. Vote: Silver JanToNight I'll Investigate Chameleon (or perhaps Klutz). Klutz will you Investigate Meeko or Colby (or Swammi)? (bleached) I've already revealed everything except my nationality. I am from Turkey. Swammer, re-investigating Pleonast is not that dumb a move. With the possiblity of a lawyer on Night 2 he needed to be reinvestigated anyway. So now we know he is either town or godfather. ToNight I will investigate Swammi. Note that I investigated Colby on Night 3. I don't see much need to investigate Meeko at this stage. For toDay, I would still prefer a No Lynch and you investigate Silver Jan.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 12, 2014 7:45:01 GMT -5
Come to think of it, maybe we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone by investigating Pleonast instead. If he turns up as godfather then that clears storyteller and removes the need for another Pleonast investigation toNight. And since we already have 2 pieces of intelligence on him, there is a better chance of a result. Uninvestigate: storytellerInvestigate: PleonastI'll also reveal last Night's investigation result: "You have determined that Storyteller0910 is aligned with the mafia." Why do you think story is still scum as all your investigations have come up "Mafia" and we know that's not true, do you suddenly think you have different results, I would have been more worried if the result was Town. Vote: Vote No LynchInvestigate PleonastI still think he is the most likely remaing scum player, he is the only one that doesn't need anyone dead, all the rest are cross referenced except for the 3rd Parties and I think that they can help us at the moment. I have wondered if they a pulling a con trick and they are scum but then why involve Texcat in that? (bleached) You know Silver Jan, it's odd that whenever I suggest investigating storyteller you leap to his defence, asking why I want to investigate him. I said specifically that I think he is the godfather. I said that is why I wanted to investigate him. Then I decided it would be more efficient to investigate Pleonast instead. Even then, you still want to know why I was even thinking of investigating storyteller. It really looks like you are trying to avoid a storyteller investigation. It is interesting that the one investigation that you did NOT boost was storyteller's. But I still don't want you lynched toDay. I would prefer a No Lynch and for swammi to investigate you. If it comes back as scum then I will be voting for storyteller toMorrow.
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Post by swammerdami on Feb 12, 2014 8:40:27 GMT -5
I'll guess that either Scum started with a Godfather and only two others or 4 Scum with no Godfather. Four Scum with a Godfather would strike me as unbalanced, given the Defector, 3rd party Killer, Miller, Framer, Town vs Town wincons, etc. Four Scum without a Godfather is becoming unlikely. Everyone's been checked except Meeko, Story, Jan, Chameleon and our two Investigators, right? We can start Lynching from this group, while also Investigating, and -- when we hit Scum -- rethink. More likely is that only one Godfather remains and the Investigations will do us little good. For toDay, I would still prefer a No Lynch and you investigate Silver Jan. Even with sped-up days, this ending may be tedious and time-consuming. Every No-Lynch is an extra Day and Night. I don't think Jan is Scum; if she is and there's another Scum after her we want to Lynch her. If she's the last Scum, she probably has Godfather status and Investigating wouldn't help. Anti-vote: No Lynch
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Post by swammerdami on Feb 12, 2014 8:42:19 GMT -5
Four Scum without a Godfather is becoming unlikely. Everyone's been checked except Meeko, Story, Jan, Chameleon and our two Investigators, right? Sorry, Storyteller.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 12, 2014 9:01:21 GMT -5
Why do you think story is still scum as all your investigations have come up "Mafia" and we know that's not true, do you suddenly think you have different results, I would have been more worried if the result was Town. Vote: Vote No LynchInvestigate PleonastI still think he is the most likely remaing scum player, he is the only one that doesn't need anyone dead, all the rest are cross referenced except for the 3rd Parties and I think that they can help us at the moment. I have wondered if they a pulling a con trick and they are scum but then why involve Texcat in that? (bleached) You know Silver Jan, it's odd that whenever I suggest investigating storyteller you leap to his defence, asking why I want to investigate him. I said specifically that I think he is the godfather. I said that is why I wanted to investigate him. Then I decided it would be more efficient to investigate Pleonast instead. Even then, you still want to know why I was even thinking of investigating storyteller. It really looks like you are trying to avoid a storyteller investigation. It is interesting that the one investigation that you did NOT boost was storyteller's. But I still don't want you lynched toDay. I would prefer a No Lynch and for swammi to investigate you. If it comes back as scum then I will be voting for storyteller toMorrow. I don't mind investigating him, I just don't think he's scum because BillMc needed him dead, an investigation is fine with me.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 12, 2014 9:35:24 GMT -5
I do have my Silver jan/storyteller thing a bit backward.
Storyteller is my preferred suspect for the godfather (although I do have serious doubts about Pleonast's claim). It is actually Silver Jan's apparent reluctance to investigate storyteller that raises my eyebrow.
There are 2 other things that give me doubts about Silver Jan:
1. Day 1, Reply #57 Refers to the scum team as "Devils". This looked a bit like an attempt to distance herself from scum, as in "I can't possibly be scum, I don't even know what they are called" (This was actually the reason for my Day 1 vote. Not the strongest of reasons, but the best I could see).
2. More interesting is the Day 1 vote count. The final count was guir1 3, Silver Jan 2. And there were 2 scum on guiri's wagon. That could be a case of scum simply regarding guiri as a more dangerous player, or it could be scum saving a teammate.
These are not overly strong, and most of Silver Jan's play has struck me as townie. However, the apparent defence of storyteller is what tipped me over. So I am not all that opposed to a Silver Jan lynch. But it seems we have now abandoned the go slow approach, so fewer of us will win (I'm okay with that, as I have already achieved my extra condition. Not sure how others feel about it).
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 12, 2014 9:40:47 GMT -5
Even with sped-up days, this ending may be tedious and time-consuming. Every No-Lynch is an extra Day and Night. I don't think Jan is Scum; if she is and there's another Scum after her we want to Lynch her. If she's the last Scum, she probably has Godfather status and Investigating wouldn't help. If you think that Silver Jan is not scum then this is a very bad vote - it is too early to think about deliberate mislynches. I do think Silver Jan is a reasonable suspect, as I described in my last post. But I'm not overly happy with your vote.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 12, 2014 10:14:58 GMT -5
Captain Klutz, why do you feel so strongly that story is a Godfather? I really don't get it. In my mind Pleo is a much more likely candidate. One of the cases Pleo has against me is that I was disappointed that my personal target was Town and yet it's the same situation with BillMc and storyteller. I don't get it! Add that to the fact that Pleo and Patricia's wincon both have "DO NOT" in capital letters while no one else's does, this bothers me. Anyway, enough from me, you lot try and sort it out as I can't seem to explain myself properly
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 12, 2014 10:16:35 GMT -5
Sorry, AND Pleo won't tell us who he needs to be alive at the end of the game, everyone else has been open about their targets so why not him.
OK, done again until I draw breath.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 12, 2014 11:55:04 GMT -5
I still think he is the most likely remaing scum player, he is the only one that doesn't need anyone dead, all the rest are cross referenced except for the 3rd Parties and I think that they can help us at the moment. I have wondered if they a pulling a con trick and they are scum but then why involve Texcat in that? Since you're keeping track, can you post the list of who needs who dead? I've already revealed everything except my nationality. I am from Turkey. That completes my list. I need one of the Belgian, Norwegian, or Turkish players to survive. Mahaloth was Norwegian, Town and now dead. swammer claimed Belgian and Klutz had claimed Turk. I need one of you two to stay alive. But I'm not sure you're both not scum. If one of you is scum or a win-stealer, mislynching the wrong one prevents me from winning. Any chance you two could investigate each other? That solves two problems at once. 1) Let's me know which one of you I really need to keep alive and 2) allows you to confirm each other and all your results, without lynching either one of you. It's impossible you're both scum. One of the cases Pleo has against me is that I was disappointed that my personal target was Town and yet it's the same situation with BillMc and storyteller. Please quote where Bill or story expressed surprise that their targets are town? I think you're still not understanding my point--you're suspicious because you said this: I don't like the fact that I needed a Townie to die for me to win, up until toDay I was fairly convinced it would be a scum that I needed dead. I'm not voting you because you're extra target was town. I'm voting you because of your reaction to that fact.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 12, 2014 13:10:44 GMT -5
Schnell! Schnell! Kartoffelkopf! As I mentioned previously, my PM aludes to their being a defector/traitor in the town. That defector is West German..... ....and last night I received information that that person is Herr Storyteller. Vote: Storyteller I'm surprised that given the information disclosed yesterday, that no one protected texcat or gnarly. This is BillMc voting for his personal target. Gnarly was a cop, so Colby is now confirmed. Okay, I've been skimming this game way too much, but where does this come from? gnarly was a role-cop, not an alignment-cop. Please explain your logic step-by-step. Even if this move successfully results in my mislynch, it will probably result in Bill being either Night killed or lynched on Night Three/Day Four. And that is exactly why in he-said-she-said situation, we need to lynch you. If you're town, a one-for-one trade is always useful, unless we're at lynch-or-lose. And I don't believe we are. And if you're not town, we need to lynch you anyway. vote storyteller0910 for being the West German defector. Like Mr. Meeko, who is a Roleblocker and claimed to visit me last night via Texcat I can't parse this. Are you claiming results, or are you making an inference? This turns out to be much sillier than I'd realized. I am indeed West German. Just not any kind of traitor or defector. Bill's just over-reaching a bit. This turns out to be much sillier than I'd realized. I am indeed West German. Just not any kind of traitor or defector. Bill's just over-reaching a bit. This kind of back-pedaling does not make you look less suspicious. So instead of "Bill's statement is flatly untrue.", it's only partly untrue now. And "over-reaching". Following today's reveal, I have to claim. I am a town-aligned alignment-copOn Night 1, I investigated gnarlycharlie. I got the result: "You have determined that gnarlycharlie is aligned with the mafia." On Night 1, I investigated dizzymrslizzy. I got the result: "You have determined that dizzymrslizzy is aligned with the mafia." The result on gnarlycharlie is wrong, so I am not a standard cop. (yes, I have checked with the mod. Reply was "Your results were the results you were supposed to receive. gnarlycharlie's reveal was what it was supposed to be.") There are various types of cops. For example: - always right (the standard cop) - always wrong - always gets guilty - always gets innocent - gets random results It wouldn't surprise me if we have various cops in this game, of various types. My death should reveal what type of cop I am. Until then, my results are not actionable. Any other cops, don't assume that you are receiving accurate results. And if you have received any wrong results then I suggest claiming so that your results can be properly interpreted after you die. Okay, this is bizarre. Any alignment investigator that does not always get the correct results (unless interfered with by scum) is a gastard role. I summarily reject your other options (always wrong, always gets guilty, always gets innocent, gets random results). Instead we need to consider how/if your results are being interfered with. I see two alternatives: 1. Miller/godfather type roles. gnarly was not a miller. Is dizzy a miller? (Please tell us, dizzy.) 2. Scum interference. Either messing up how your target appears to all investigators. Or, messing up any investigations you make. I don't think we can decide which case we have here. But it is actionable. We don't need to necessarily lynch base on your results, but we do need more information from dizzy. unvote storyteller0910 until Bill makes more clear exactly what the evidence is. vote dizzymrslizzy for being investigated as scum and until you make a plausible claim. That's me. I also think story is innocent and probably BillMc too although I wouldn't be at all surprised if scum do need a particular Townie dead too. I also think swammerdammi is Town. It's quite nice to have a list of could be Townies for a change. I'm extremely hesitant to think we can extract a townie list based on claimed secondary targets. And here you are voting for BillMc's personal target. Why did you do that? BillMc seemed to think his personal target was scum too so why just pick on me for thinking that, we now know BillMc was Town, why would he need a scum player dead cos ALL Townies need ALL scum dead.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 12, 2014 13:25:17 GMT -5
I'm beginning to have doubts about patricia being scum, but they're a lot more suspicious than Colby11 or Meeko. I'd change my vote to Silver Jan or dizzymrslizzy, but no else sees them as suspicious. I'm half-hoping I get Night-killed just to put more pressure on them. Gah, I'm starting to sound like pizzaguy trying to trade for votes. Here you are having doubts about Patricia being scum, trying to save a scum buddy perhaps?
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 12, 2014 13:26:30 GMT -5
That completes my list. I need one of the Belgian, Norwegian, or Turkish players to survive. Mahaloth was Norwegian, Town and now dead. swammer claimed Belgian and Klutz had claimed Turk. I need one of you two to stay alive. But I'm not sure you're both not scum. If one of you is scum or a win-stealer, mislynching the wrong one prevents me from winning. Any chance you two could investigate each other? That solves two problems at once. 1) Let's me know which one of you I really need to keep alive and 2) allows you to confirm each other and all your results, without lynching either one of you. It's impossible you're both scum. How could you be Town AND need a Scum alive to win? That would mean you CAN'T win and I'm pretty sure Fruit said everyone has the possibility of winning. Unless your Town wincon says that you're a special Townie that doesn't need all threats to Town dead then that makes no sense whatsoever.
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Post by swammerdami on Feb 12, 2014 13:28:33 GMT -5
Here's what I have for win conditions. What am I missing?
Living Town and possible Town Swammerdami -- needs Jan dead storyteller0910 -- needs Swammi dead
Pleonast -- needs Klutz or Swammi to survive Captain Klutz -- Fulfilled Silver Jan -- Fulfilled
Colby11 -- ?? Meeko -- ??
Dead Town BillMC -- needs Story dead dizzymrslizzy -- needs Meeko dead guiri -- none? Sister Coyote -- ?? Mahaloth -- needs ?? gnarlycharlie -- needs ??
Third Party Need a 4-player ending, presumably Klutz, Colby and Paranoia Lynching Pleonast with fingers crossed.
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 12, 2014 13:32:24 GMT -5
That completes my list. I need one of the Belgian, Norwegian, or Turkish players to survive. Mahaloth was Norwegian, Town and now dead. swammer claimed Belgian and Klutz had claimed Turk. I need one of you two to stay alive. But I'm not sure you're both not scum. If one of you is scum or a win-stealer, mislynching the wrong one prevents me from winning. Any chance you two could investigate each other? That solves two problems at once. 1) Let's me know which one of you I really need to keep alive and 2) allows you to confirm each other and all your results, without lynching either one of you. It's impossible you're both scum. How can you be Town AND need a Scum alive to win? That means you CAN'T win and I'm pretty sure Fruit said that everyone has the chance of winning. Unless you're a super special Townie whose role PM says that you don't need all threats to Town eliminated this makes no sense.
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Post by swammerdami on Feb 12, 2014 13:33:53 GMT -5
And isn't it time to let it all hang out?
Meeko and Colby: Who did you target last Night? Who do you want dead?
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 12, 2014 13:38:12 GMT -5
ARRRRGG! Something incredibly stupid is happening! I swear my post appeared and the quotes were messed up (there shouldn't be a Captain Klutz bubble at all in there), and then it disappeared, so I re-typed it and posted it again and the old one came back and the new one still has the quote messed up. So sorry that posted twice and please ignore the Captain Klutz bubble.
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 12, 2014 13:41:57 GMT -5
And isn't it time to let it all hang out? Meeko and Colby: Who did you target last Night? Who do you want dead? I think it's more informative to see if those blocked admit they were blocked since they know it will make them highly suspicious.
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Post by Meeko on Feb 12, 2014 13:48:19 GMT -5
That's it, 100%, apart from the address for our private board. We are completely non-affiliated. We don't care who wins as long as 15 people are dead. The only thing that makes us want to help Town is because we would probably lose if Scum win because they control the vote, but that doesn't look like it will happen now. My main interest at this point is that every Town meet their win condition as that will probably secure ours. If the last Scum is amazing and manages to kill all the Townies that's fine with me too. So no, the game is not 3 Scum vs. 15 non-Scum. It's probably something more like 3 Scum vs. 11 or 12 Town, possibly 1 PFK and the 3-player "we don't give a shit who wins" (truly) third party team. You can believe me or not - my death helps my win condition, but doesn't really help any of yours. Makes me feel better for blocking you last night.
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Post by Meeko on Feb 12, 2014 13:50:22 GMT -5
And isn't it time to let it all hang out? Meeko and Colby: Who did you target last Night? Who do you want dead? As I previously stated, I needed BillMc dead.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 12, 2014 14:14:57 GMT -5
I'm beginning to have doubts about patricia being scum, but they're a lot more suspicious than Colby11 or Meeko. I'd change my vote to Silver Jan or dizzymrslizzy, but no else sees them as suspicious. I'm half-hoping I get Night-killed just to put more pressure on them. Gah, I'm starting to sound like pizzaguy trying to trade for votes. Here you are having doubts about Patricia being scum, trying to save a scum buddy perhaps? And here you are trying to imply that explaining one's thoughts on other players is suspicious. While you have noticeably refused evaluating any other players. I had doubts about patricia, but while other players created a tie, I was the one who actually broke the tie. Only scum have certainty of other's alignments. How could you be Town AND need a Scum alive to win? That would mean you CAN'T win and I'm pretty sure Fruit said everyone has the possibility of winning. Unless your Town wincon says that you're a special Townie that doesn't need all threats to Town dead then that makes no sense whatsoever. Um, I don't. I need only one of three specific players to be alive at the end of the game. Not all of them, one of them. I was explicitly told by the moderator I don't have any information about their alignment; therefore I am not going to assume anything about their alignment. And given the warning this game about trusting other players, I'm going to consider that one of them could be scum. Since the two remaining players on my list both claim to be investigators, having them investigate each other works very nicely, both for me and for other townies. An investigator can't confirm someone until they themself are confirmed. So either both investigators are town and confirm each other and all their investigations. Or, one of them is lying scum and we can lynch them and reassess everyone they've claimed is town. Here's what I have for win conditions. What am I missing? Living Town and possible TownSwammerdami -- needs Jan dead storyteller0910 -- needs Swammi dead Pleonast -- needs Klutz or Swammi to survive Captain Klutz -- Fulfilled Silver Jan -- Fulfilled Colby11 -- ?? Meeko -- ?? Dead TownBillMC -- needs Story dead dizzymrslizzy -- needs Meeko dead guiri -- none? Sister Coyote -- ?? Mahaloth -- needs ?? gnarlycharlie -- needs ?? Third PartyNeed a 4-player ending, presumably Klutz, Colby and Paranoia Lynching Pleonast with fingers crossed. Okay Silver Jan, you said you cross-referenced everyone except the third parties. Who do Colby and Meeko need dead? And who needs Colby dead?
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 12, 2014 14:34:02 GMT -5
Colby needs Ozan Lange dead but I can't remember who that is.
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Post by swammerdami on Feb 12, 2014 14:36:38 GMT -5
Here's what I have for the death needs of the 12 probable Townies:
Dizzymrslizzy (Zurab Khomeriki of Georgia) --> Meeko --> BillMc --> storyteller0910 --> Swammerdami --> Silver Jan --> Sister Coyote --> ??
Dizzy needed Meeko, who needed BillMc, etc. A perfect chain of 7 probable Townies. The remaining five form a chain of two and three singletons.
Klutz (Turk) --> Mahaloth --> ??
guiri (Dannie Dannel Englishman) --> ?? Gnarly (Efstathios Floros of Greece) --> ?? Colby --> ??
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 12, 2014 14:37:21 GMT -5
Dizzy needed Meeko dead and Meeko needed BillMc dead. I wish I had matched the players names, nationalities and character names up but I didn't.
Pleo is the only person alive except for 3rd parties that doesn't need anyone dead.
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Post by swammerdami on Feb 12, 2014 14:41:22 GMT -5
Thanks, Silver Jan. I should have waited a minute before posting.
Here's what I have for the death needs of the 12 probable Townies:
Dizzymrslizzy (Zurab Khomeriki of Georgia) --> Meeko --> BillMc --> storyteller0910 --> Swammerdami --> Silver Jan --> Sister Coyote --> ??
Dizzy needed Meeko, who needed BillMc, etc. A perfect chain of 7 probable Townies. The remaining five form a chain of three and two singletons.
Colby (??) --> Captain Klutz --> Mahaloth --> ??
guiri (Dannie Dannel Englishman) --> ?? Gnarly (Efstathios Floros of Greece) --> ??
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 12, 2014 15:07:41 GMT -5
That's it, 100%, apart from the address for our private board. We are completely non-affiliated. We don't care who wins as long as 15 people are dead. The only thing that makes us want to help Town is because we would probably lose if Scum win because they control the vote, but that doesn't look like it will happen now. My main interest at this point is that every Town meet their win condition as that will probably secure ours. If the last Scum is amazing and manages to kill all the Townies that's fine with me too. So no, the game is not 3 Scum vs. 15 non-Scum. It's probably something more like 3 Scum vs. 11 or 12 Town, possibly 1 PFK and the 3-player "we don't give a shit who wins" (truly) third party team. You can believe me or not - my death helps my win condition, but doesn't really help any of yours. Makes me feel better for blocking you last night. That's interesting. So Scum didn't attempt a night kill last night, or their target was protected. I don't think it's that obvious who should have been protected last night so if that's the case it was a pretty lucky guess.
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Post by Meeko on Feb 12, 2014 16:00:28 GMT -5
Makes me feel better for blocking you last night. That's interesting. So Scum didn't attempt a night kill last night, or their target was protected. I don't think it's that obvious who should have been protected last night so if that's the case it was a pretty lucky guess. That's an interesting way to say "yep I'm scum" I mean, we are to believe that three people out here are their own faction, and aren't scum?
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 12, 2014 16:39:24 GMT -5
That's an interesting way to say "yep I'm scum" I mean, we are to believe that three people out here are their own faction, and aren't scum? Swammi has investigated both textcat and Paranoia and had a result of third party. On her death, texcat was revealed as third party. Swammi has also stated that he has checked with the mod and third party is different to PFK. So it seems that the third party group in this game is not PFK, unless you also think that swammi is lying.
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