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Post by Gadarene on Jun 11, 2007 13:38:31 GMT -5
Idle:
I just want to point out that if you are Steele---which is perfectly possible, and which (in certain scenarios) goes a long way to explaining zuma's actions---then you were downright irresponsible in offering to be modkilled. Not just irresponsible, but irresponsible to a ridiculous extent. A counterclaim would have been miles better, in that event.
You and zuma have both annoyed me with your play today...not just as an in-game matter, but because the two of you seem to be flagrantly disregarding accepted rules of gamesmanship and making plays that are bad not just for the crew but for the game as a whole.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 11, 2007 13:41:19 GMT -5
But obviously, he CAN'T be Ben Gunn, because he wouldn't have needed to have been rescued by the doctor. And he's obviously not the doctor, because the officers wouldn't be voting for him. That means he's either a vanilla crew and pulled a Winston, or he's a pirate (or Dick, but that's slim because he'd have needed to have been blocked by Steele, or Sam, but I'd expect him to be trying to get information out to the pirates). Snipped. It's such a relief to finally see someone saying what I've been saying in my long posts all during this Day (well, after I found out that what FCOD and AZteach were saying really ARE facts too).
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 11, 2007 13:47:21 GMT -5
Idle:I just want to point out that if you are Steele---which is perfectly possible, and which (in certain scenarios) goes a long way to explaining zuma's actions---then you were downright irresponsible in offering to be modkilled. Not just irresponsible, but irresponsible to a ridiculous extent. A counterclaim would have been miles better, in that event. I don't get this. I'm not Steele, though. I just said that's what I THINK zuma thought (due to me not believing his claim and being verbal about it in Day Two). I've said I wasn't Steele though before. Seriously, if I was I wouldn't have been willing to sacrifice myself in that fashion. I have no role other than just plain, vanilla crew. And how is that? I've done nothing but claim and say that he was lying (which I knew) and that I am crew (which I know). So how was that bad? Care to explain because I am seriously not seeing or getting it. I don't know what else I could have done. Seemed par for the course under those circumstances to say what the truth is..I'm crew; he's lying?
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 11, 2007 13:50:36 GMT -5
BM I couldn't follow this paragraph at all. Sorry. Mind restating? I see Gadarene has become adept at understanding my brain-working-faster-than-I-can-type ramblings . But I was trying to get out multiple points, so I'll re-hit them all. All of them operate under the assumption that, at least collectively, the pirates are at least as smart any one of us, thus: 1) It makes sense for anything a vanilla crewman can figure out, without special knowledge, to share it because the pirates will figure it out anyway (based on the assumption I made) but not necessarily every crewman. 2) (As Gadarene correctly pulled out), as we get more pirates, they benefit less from the ability to strategize and, thus, the assumption may no longer be true. Thus, at this point, with all the pirates still in play, operating under my assumption, I will share everything that crosses my mind (unless I have special knowledge, and it is derived from that ). As the pirate population grows smaller, it may be of less benefit to share certain thoughts because it then may be knowledge the pirates wouldn't have had already. A good example would come from M3 with Diggit and Idle seeing that the doctor had outted herself, but didn't point out a specific post. I won't say when the mafia knew, but we did know before her claim. Clearly, some people didn't know prior to her claim. I will simply say (to avoid giving away information prior to the game's completion ) that the mafia knew she was the doctor before she claimed (as is clear in the game, since I called her out on it ).
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 11, 2007 13:58:44 GMT -5
Second: I don't know if Idle is scum or not at this point. When I put together my post he seemed like the most scummy player on the deck to me. I didn't mention your rebuttal at all. I said (and look up if you need confirmation of this) WHEN I PUT TOGETHER MY POST. Stop being so god damned defensive Idle. Honestly I haven't had time to get to it yet. Other things were happening today that sorta took precedence in my mind. I will get back to it, but probably not until toNight. How about we make a deal, my very first post tomorrow (if I am not night killed) will be my defense against your post. If I have time to get to it today (and I will try, but the next couple of days are going to be crazy for me personally) I will post it sooner. I read pages 4-13 basically is a single shot. Do me a favor. Take an hour and do the same, then tell me that you don't feel like the general vibe is that you are, if not confirmed town, fairly close. I said this because that was my impression after doing a complete read. Maybe I was over reacting, but I figure it is better to over react to a situation like that, than to just let that feeling build. That mod kill request was bullshit, you know it, I know it and I am fairly sure the rest of the crew knows it. Seriously? I am sorry, but someone who starts yelling in multicolor giant bold font that he is not scum just seems to not want to die too much. ALL this being said, I am not certain you are scum anymore. My case against you was built on the preponderance of evidence and I admitted out right that each individual piece was weak. We have more information (lots more) now than we did at the start of the day. Sorry but I still find you kinda scummy Idle, I am sure you still find me kinda scummy. Neither one of us is likely to die toNight so we can hash this out tomorrow. Figure out what is what between us. I am happy to keep the conversation going today if you like, but I don't know if that is the best use of our time. I know that until zuma dies and we can figure out what he was after I won't be able to change my opinion of you. But tomorrow is another Day.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 11, 2007 14:07:47 GMT -5
And how is that? I've done nothing but claim and say that he was lying (which I knew) and that I am crew (which I know). So how was that bad? Care to explain because I am seriously not seeing or getting it. I don't know what else I could have done. Seemed par for the course under those circumstances to say what the truth is..I'm crew; he's lying? To be fair, while I appreciate your empassioned defense, it was completely devoid of anything convincing. If you're innocent, and you KNOW Zuma was lying, there is likely to be evidence (as it turned out) that will exonerate you. As I was reading through and catching up, I got VERY frustrated with the sheer number of posts in large font, and I found it to be a real distraction. Honestly, it looked to me like scum who was caught, and was trying to either look town because he was so passionate, or was simply trying to pollute the thread to destroy the signal to noise ratio. I also think that, while it may or may not be against the rules (which it apparently is in this case), that getting mod-killed is, at the very least, against the spirit of the game. Similar to how I feel aboutt making up real-life excuses for why one "couldn't" post when one is intentionally lurking. I think a mod kill is acceptable in some cases (like part of what happened with you in M3, that I won't mention because there's still active M3 players here), but IMO, the mod-kill is meant as a balance correction, not as a tool to favor either side. All of that said, I don't hold any of it against you because I know how frustrated you were, and I think grudges based on a game are just silly. But, I do believe it is a fair statement to say that your actions weren't pro-crew, even if the intentions are--road to hell and all that...
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 11, 2007 14:15:02 GMT -5
I read pages 4-13 basically is a single shot. Do me a favor. Take an hour and do the same, then tell me that you don't feel like the general vibe is that you are, if not confirmed town, fairly close. I said this because that was my impression after doing a complete read. Maybe I was over reacting, but I figure it is better to over react to a situation like that, than to just let that feeling build. I didn't read THAT much all at once, but I did read those pages in pretty much two big chunks, and I got the same read on the tone. That said, it doesn't bother me TOO much at this point simply because there are definitely others higher on my suspicion list, and I imagine you two will be keeping eachother honest by keeping the Watchful Eye on eachother especially since I'd have a hard time believing all three of you (including Zuma) are all scum together, because that's just... crazy.
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Post by Malacandra on Jun 11, 2007 14:16:34 GMT -5
Fixed.
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Post by autolycus on Jun 11, 2007 14:19:14 GMT -5
*Yawn*
Morning mateys. Anythin' I can do t' be of saaaarvice?
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Post by Lakai on Jun 11, 2007 14:43:28 GMT -5
Well it looks like we have an easy decision Today.
Vote Zuma.
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Post by Gadarene on Jun 11, 2007 14:47:19 GMT -5
Idle:
Blaster Master has pretty much nailed it:
Asking for a mod-kill (and particularly jumping to that as seemingly your tool of first resort) is almost always really bad form, whether you're sincere or not, unless there's an identifiable meta-game or out-of-game reason for it. Which there wasn't in this case. At all.
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Post by capybara on Jun 11, 2007 14:53:41 GMT -5
You and zuma have both annoyed me with your play today...not just as an in-game matter, but because the two of you seem to be flagrantly disregarding accepted rules of gamesmanship and making plays that are bad not just for the crew but for the game as a whole. Gad, Which actions of Zuma are poor sportsmanship, btw, or is it the disappearing act in general?
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Post by Gadarene on Jun 11, 2007 14:54:59 GMT -5
Voting for himself, no question.
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Post by autolycus on Jun 11, 2007 14:55:55 GMT -5
Since ye just posted Lakai, what be tha deal on yer disappearin' act lately? Any crew shirkin' his duty is punishable by the lash, savvy?
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Post by capybara on Jun 11, 2007 14:56:12 GMT -5
Ah, ok. Forgot about that one.
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Post by capybara on Jun 11, 2007 14:58:34 GMT -5
Since ye just posted Lakai, what be tha deal on yer disappearin' act lately? Any crew shirkin' his duty is punishable by the lash, savvy? Ha, and Lakai, anyone who has half as many posts as Auto. . . This whole thing has been followed up on by a finite number of players who seem to be doing all of the work (useful as well as futile) and sticking necks on the line while others are lurking again and watching the pretty fireworks and waiting to see where the wind's blowing.
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Post by autolycus on Jun 11, 2007 15:00:57 GMT -5
Voting for himself, no question. [accent off] I understand that's a poor play, but how is it unsportsman-like? I figured he meant it as a futile 'i give up' waving-of-the-hands gesture [accent on] Yarrrr....
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Post by Gadarene on Jun 11, 2007 15:04:11 GMT -5
There's never, ever a good in-game reason to vote for yourself. It's thoroughly against the spirit of the game.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 11, 2007 15:08:31 GMT -5
Voting for himself, no question. If he wants to vote for himself, while it's certainly not helpful for either side, I don't see it as anything more than that. What bothered me more was the dropping of the bomb, sticking around just enough to fan the flames a little, then disappearing. However, he didn't imply that it wasn't a deliberate absence, and he generally is a lower poster, so it doesn't bother me much. What would have bothered me is if he we were still beating the drum to lynch Idle, he's mysteriously absent, then shows up late to cast a vote and said "sorry, couldn't post I... [insert made-up RL excuse]". If you wanna lurk, that's fine (from a sportsman perspective); it's a legitimate strategy. Just don't make up RL excuses when you get called on it; because, you eventually will.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 11, 2007 15:10:13 GMT -5
Speaking of lurking. Hi Lakai!
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 11, 2007 15:16:31 GMT -5
There's never, ever a good in-game reason to vote for yourself. It's thoroughly against the spirit of the game. Hmm, from that respect, I see what you're saying, but it ultimately has no different affect that if he simply restrained from voting (the obvious purpose being, "I'm gonna die, I don't wanna leave any crumbs"). That said, this is an important topic, I think, but maybe it should be brought to a side thread to keep from hijacking the pertinent discussion, because it's really something that, while related to the game, isn't part of the strategizing. In fact, I'll do that right now... Try this
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Post by Gadarene on Jun 11, 2007 16:20:00 GMT -5
Anyone else? Anyone? What more are we discussing here?
...I'm antsy to resolve this whole zuma/Idle mess, and it's getting the better of me.
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Post by autolycus on Jun 11, 2007 16:21:41 GMT -5
Aye, it be feelin' like wer wastin' time....
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 11, 2007 16:37:09 GMT -5
Anyone else? Anyone? What more are we discussing here? ...I'm antsy to resolve this whole zuma/ Idle mess, and it's getting the better of me. I thought we had a resolution to the zuma/Idle mess. Now we just have to wait. Is that what you are antsy over? I'm on pins and needles myself to see what answers we will get at Dusk. I'm hesitant to add any more noise to toDay's thread, but if you want to discuss who's up next, I'll toss Lakai in for consideration. His lurking is the main reason, but when he posts there is nothing there. Almost everyone has voted for zuma. Hal Briston still has a vote for Idle, but he noted that he would be gone, so I imagine he has no idea what has transpired since he cast it. Everyone else including zuma has voted for zuma. My point, I think, is that there are definitely scum voting for zuma, and is there any way we can tell who they are? Lakai looks bad for being last, but is that unfortunate timing?
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Post by zuma on Jun 11, 2007 16:41:04 GMT -5
Everything I have done in this game is consistant with achieving my win condition. I cannot say any more at this time.
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Post by Gadarene on Jun 11, 2007 16:43:14 GMT -5
Okey doke. I think you're a knucklehead.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 11, 2007 16:46:19 GMT -5
zuma, you are one strange cat. What character has a win condition that requiers being lynched?
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Post by capybara on Jun 11, 2007 16:51:39 GMT -5
So, Zuma, you wanna help out much with your team's win condition, whoever they might be? I assume this is again a suggestion that you're a scum power role, who doesn't exactly win with either the crew or pirates?
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Post by ArizonaTeach on Jun 11, 2007 16:55:37 GMT -5
Sure you can say more, you can say anything you want to say. Jeez. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 11, 2007 16:56:11 GMT -5
Everything I have done in this game is consistant with achieving my win condition. I cannot say any more at this time. I don't remember anything in the rules about win conditions for single roles. Just crew wins or pirate wins. Dick wins with the pirates if he has become one. Ben wins with the crew if he has become one. I'm not clear on Sneaky Sam.
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