Parzival
Mome Rath
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Post by Parzival on Jun 9, 2007 12:06:35 GMT -5
Here's the facts, as I see them, that we should keep in mind :
(1)ArizonaTeach and FlyingCowofDoom are Officers. For this not to be the case, the real Officers either have to not exist (throwing the game wildly off-balance) or be great Fools for not counter-claiming.
(2)Based on (1) and ArizonaTeach's recent post, zuma was protected by the Doctor last night. It appears to be the case that the Doctor also knows whether his protection was effective. I just realized this pretty much has to be the case (since the Doctor has to know when he can't protect someone twice).
This information is quite useful, but if I may respectfully ask the Officers - we should have NO further mention of the Doctor's role last night or even tonight. I don't think this case merits it. So even if it's revealed that the Doctor did indeed save zuma, don't report it.
(3)There were no kills last night. Unless the Pirates can do a non-kill, at least one kill was Blocked by Steele or Saved by the Doctor.
#3 is the most interesting, because we need to reconcile it with the events as they're claimed and the last few nights.
Here's what I think should happen:
Lynch Idle Thoughts today, whether you think he's scum or not. He's looking more like scum, though : I think it was (cowgirl? capybara?) who pointed out that he was all in favor of one-for-one not too long ago, and yet railed against it toDay.
Case A : Idle Thoughts is scum. zuma is most likely Steele. We don't lynch him right away (but trust or distrust as you see fit). He'll be doing all he can to stay alive for the next few Nights. With luck, he'll Block a few more kills and keep the crew lasting longer. If he's not Steele, the real Steele can wait a Day or two before role-claiming.
Case B : Idle Thoughts is crew. zuma is some sort of scum. Whatever he is, it isn't Steele. The real Steele doesn't need to role claim. We kill him tomorrow NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS. I can't see any pro-crew scenario that lets him off. If Ben Gunn happens to have been activated last night - you're lucky indeed. You would know who to kill in this case.
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Post by Hal Briston on Jun 9, 2007 12:18:52 GMT -5
Ok, as I mentioned in the unavailability thread, I'm away from home so things gotta be quick and to the point here. First, Idle v. zuma: Like I said before, I wouldn't mind if we weren't already down by six crew members. But seven to every one scum found? If crew keeps that pattern up for the rest of the game, we're screwed. C'mon, Idle...you keep insisting this wouldn't be a one-for-one trade, but you know that's exactly what it would be. The fact that we're down six sucks, but that doesn't mean that we have to lose six or seven crew for each pirate found. Sorry if you turn out to be crew, but it's obvious -- losing vanilla is better than losing Steele. Add in the fact that MadTheSwine, someone I'm pretty damn convinced is scum, is voting for zuma, and my choice becomes clear. Vote Idle Thoughts1) Hal Briston really started to piss me off with his "AZTeach really screwed up there" defense when it was he who made the original error. His calm demeanor about the whole thing bothers the hell out of me, too. AZ, I never blamed the mess on you. We both made mistakes there -- I mistakenly said you said it, you mistakenly said no one said it. You certainly played your part, but it wasn't your fault...no need to get pissed over that. And I'm sorry I don't go for histrionic posting...I try to keep things in perspective. It's a game -- not something I'm going to lose my cool over. Incidentally, I'd be careful about doing too much agreeing with MadTheSwine. FWIW, I'm pretty sure you're crew. You don't want his stench on you when it comes out that he's scum.
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Post by Hal Briston on Jun 9, 2007 12:20:18 GMT -5
Aaaand, upon further review, ignore that last paragraph. You weren't agreeing with him at all there. My mistake...
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Post by ArizonaTeach on Jun 9, 2007 12:25:56 GMT -5
AZ, I never blamed the mess on you. We both made mistakes there -- I mistakenly said you said it, you mistakenly said no one said it. You certainly played your part, but it wasn't your fault...no need to get pissed over that. And I'm sorry I don't go for histrionic posting...I try to keep things in perspective. It's a game -- not something I'm going to lose my cool over. Incidentally, I'd be careful about doing too much agreeing with MadTheSwine. FWIW, I'm pretty sure you're crew. You don't want his stench on you when it comes out that he's scum. I don't think I said what I meant to say very well...Your posts felt, to me, more along the lines of condescending, not misleading. Eh. That's not a reason to be suspicious of you in and of itself, this is true. Officially putting suspicions of Hal on the back-burner here! And with that, I'm gone. I'm going to have an absolutely miserable day today pondering this, so Idle, you can at least be happy about that! ;D
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Post by Mad The Swine on Jun 9, 2007 12:40:13 GMT -5
[ ! And with that, I'm gone. I'm going to have an absolutely miserable day today pondering this, so Idle, you can at least be happy about that! ;D Boy you said it,I had a fun evening planned,which I am already late for,now I'm gonna ponder this all night. I will be back tomorrow sometime.
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Post by Hal Briston on Jun 9, 2007 12:42:28 GMT -5
Your posts felt, to me, more along the lines of condescending, not misleading. Ohhhhh...well, yeah, they probably were condescending. Sorry...that's just the style I sometimes use. If I'm defending myself from a transparent attack by someone I'm quite sure is scum, I tend to take on a "Yeah, nice try at twisting the facts buddy...now here's how it really went" kind of attitude to my typing. I hope you understand that not a bit of it was aimed at you.
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 9, 2007 12:47:11 GMT -5
Although the Officers don't know what the Doctor did last night, they do know who the Doctor is. And, more importantly, they know who the Doctor is/will vote for. So, I'll keep my vote with the Officers toDay. Anyone who ends up voting against the Officers is 1) scum. 2) doesn't believe the Officers' role claims. 3) thinks the Doctor got outwitted. 4) is too slow switching their vote (if the Officers later switch their vote).
Bottomline: even if you don't trust zuma[/a], the Officers will follow the Doctor, who has the best trustable knowledge of last Night.
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Post by capybara on Jun 9, 2007 12:59:49 GMT -5
Pleonast, That reasoning is bold but sound. Also, for the record, For those of you saying it is a trade-off Idle for zuma,I think we can get three scum for the price of zero here,by lynching zuma,followed by Hal and then NAF. I'm starting to suspect that there indeed might be a three-fer, but of Idle, Mad, and Auto from their, IMO, rubbishy defenses of Idle. It will be interesting to see who flies to what corner as the day progresses.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 9, 2007 13:16:03 GMT -5
Although the Officers don't know what the Doctor did last night, they do know who the Doctor is. And, more importantly, they know who the Doctor is/will vote for. So, I'll keep my vote with the Officers toDay. Anyone who ends up voting against the Officers is 1) scum. 2) doesn't believe the Officers' role claims. 3) thinks the Doctor got outwitted. 4) is too slow switching their vote (if the Officers later switch their vote). Bottomline: even if you don't trust zuma[/a], the Officers will follow the Doctor, who has the best trustable knowledge of last Night.[/quote]Your post makes perfect sense. In fact, it makes so much sense it makes me suspicious of you I'd like to address two of your points. 2) Anyone that doesn't believe our claim isn't paying attention. There are only two ways that AZTeach and I could be lying. Either there are no officers in the game (next to impossible) or the real officers are complete idiots (extremely unlikely). All a "real" officer would have to do is role-claim to trade him/herself for two scum. 3) I don't see how the Doctor can get outwitted. We know that the Doctor gets to see if his target was an intended victim. That's plenty of information to verify zuma's story. If zuma is lying, why would he have been a night-kill target? TRUST THE OFFICERS. --FCOD
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Post by capybara on Jun 9, 2007 13:36:01 GMT -5
Ok, I really need to stop checking in on this and get on with my constructive day hoisting sails and tying fancy knots. I am pretty durned convinced at this point of where things stand, so barring further new revelations or compelling histrionics, for the time being, at least, Vote Idle Thoughts
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 9, 2007 13:46:43 GMT -5
Although the Officers don't know what the Doctor did last night, they do know who the Doctor is. And, more importantly, they know who the Doctor is/will vote for. So, I'll keep my vote with the Officers toDay. Anyone who ends up voting against the Officers is 1) scum. 2) doesn't believe the Officers' role claims. 3) thinks the Doctor got outwitted. 4) is too slow switching their vote (if the Officers later switch their vote). Bottomline: even if you don't trust zuma[/a], the Officers will follow the Doctor, who has the best trustable knowledge of last Night.[/quote]Your post makes perfect sense. In fact, it makes so much sense it makes me suspicious of you I'd like to address two of your points. 2) Anyone that doesn't believe our claim isn't paying attention. There are only two ways that AZTeach and I could be lying. Either there are no officers in the game (next to impossible) or the real officers are complete idiots (extremely unlikely). All a "real" officer would have to do is role-claim to trade him/herself for two scum. 3) I don't see how the Doctor can get outwitted. We know that the Doctor gets to see if his target was an intended victim. That's plenty of information to verify zuma's story. If zuma is lying, why would he have been a night-kill target? TRUST THE OFFICERS. --FCOD[/quote] Yes, FCOD, this does make perfect sense. With my own thoughts on this already out there, coupled with the Officer's, I'm going to vote Idle Thoughts. I'm not entirely convinced of zuma's claim, but Idle is the better choice for today. I sure am hoping he turns out to be a scum of some flavor.
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Post by autolycus on Jun 9, 2007 14:23:09 GMT -5
I'll be swabbing the deck fer 7 hours. Me opinions remain unchanged.
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Post by zuma on Jun 9, 2007 14:38:08 GMT -5
I'd like to take some time to adress the question of the timing of my role-claim, as a couple people brough it up (most curiously, Autolycus, who falsely said I did it with 2+ days to go!).
I role claimed at 7:14 p.m. pacific time on 6/7, when I was stil at work. I think the day was scheduled to end at 1 p.m. pdt the following day. That's less than 18 hours. Ideally I'd have waited a few more hours, but I had a couple more hours at work, then plans for a couple hours after that. Any true defense I could mount would have come after midnight pacific time, when few would be here.
I work afternoons/evenings, so even if I mounted a defense, then went to bed, I'd have to hope to hell it worked, because I would probably not be back until around 11 a.m. pacific, just two hours from deadline. Role-claiming then would have resulted in chaos.
I thought it better to role-claim the evening of 6/6 than late-morning 6/7, so the town could have some time to find a desirable candidate.
FOS: Autolycus for saying it was 2 days away. That's completely untrue.
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Post by autolycus on Jun 9, 2007 14:40:30 GMT -5
Last chance t' jot down in the log b4 deck duty. My apologies to you Zuma fer bein' mistaken.
Since you have time to post now, how about doin' a better job at fillin' yer boots, oh Captain?
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Post by zuma on Jun 9, 2007 14:44:58 GMT -5
Correction to my above post... I role-claimed at 7:14 p.m. 6/6, not 6/7.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 9, 2007 15:25:23 GMT -5
STOP lobbying to get yourself thrown overboard days and days before the Day ends, if you're crew. That will not help much, will it? You throw yourself in front of a train so we can get someone hours earlier than we would otherwise (IF all goes badly)? Don't be a putz, crewman. As far as I can see/tell, it would help greatly because then players won't waste a day lynching me. If the game is played where if someone is Mod Killed and the current Day goes on..I don't see why that wouldn't work. However some people who host the game, I've seen them, if they have to Mod Kill someone, use THAT death as the "death" for Day or Night (depending on what period it is AND on what the player's status is). So I was just asking...if a player is Mod Killed in the Day and that person is crew, does the Day continue on? The same Day until lynch? Or does the Day end immediately and that Mod Killed crewmember get counted for that Day's "lynch"? I think that's a legitimate question. Corollary: Why would Zuma pull a whopper like this at this juncture, if he's lying? He hasn't stricken me as a moron or anything. It's a little early for a suicide bid, to get another vanilla crew kill. Because he's scum and he's willing to sacrifice himself to have it currently be eight or nine to one. As long as you, and others, believe him and kill me off this Day, the false claim he made was not all for naught...even if you just kill him the next day. He got to use it to score the death of a crewmember. As for Auto's post...maybe he's seeing something you don't, AZteach? Although I'm not any of those people. I have no role. I'M REALLY JUST A NORMAL CREW PERSON! I'm telling the truth! Made my decision. If nobody counters zuma's Steele claim by tomorrow, I'm voting for Idle, unless other information comes to light. This seems almost like you're TRYING to get the real Captain Steele to come forward. You mean like they're doing me? HE'S NOT STEELE! HE'S LYING!. How many times do I have to say that. WHAT can I possibly do or say to make you ACTUALLY GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO THAT POSSIBLITY BEFORE YOU KILL ME OFF? I'm starting to think that YOU aren't what you or FCOD say you are either. I cannot POSSIBLY IMAGINE crew being this closed or narrow minded! He's not Steele! Or maybe HE'S the real Steele who is padding it to make it look like he's suspicious of both of us, but knows that zuma is lying. I'm surprised at you. You didn't even GIVE THIS AS A POSSIBLE SOLUTION. This makes me think that Auto is not the Doc if YOU really are what you say you are. Because otherwise your Doc would be giving subtle hints, I'd hope, that showed who he protected. What?! I'm TRYING TO MAKE YOU REALIZE you're making a mistake...but since that's not even making a small dent, whereas in SOME IT DID, I'm starting to think YOU ARE SCUM TOO and LYING about your claim. If you aren't, I plead. Don't do this. Zuma is lying. The thing is, Idle, even if you're crew, it sucks to be you. Because it's actually better for us for zuma to be scum. It means that Steele still remains hidden. The 'worst case' I can see of this - We lose a crewman (you). You've lost SIX crewmen before me. And you haven't killed a pirate off yet....AND a Night is still coming. So the score will currently be about eight or nine to one. As for the next part of your post, I AM not any of those things...I am an HONEST MEMBER of the crew! - Lynch a townie. We want to avoid this but don't have sufficient information. I do. I'm ONE HUNDRED percent sure that I'm crew and zuma is SCUM! And shit on your protest too much. What the hell am I supposed to do??! I fucking SWEAR 0ON ANYTHING YOU WANT ME TO THAT I'M CREW! WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO OR SAY TO MAKE ANYONE GIVE ME ANY BELIEF? Listen to me people. You ALL always said you'd RECOGNIZE a true crew's actions because they have a certain emotion nobody else has. I've seen that a few times in here by many people. Me? I say that's bullcrap! Some of you obviously don't know shit from shinola regarding who is crew no matter what their posts say. Seriously. Where are those people now? That are so SURE who crew is and who isn't by their post tone? What, isn't it working right now? The other game has little to do with this one What's your point?! I've been SAYING THIS. This is why I said the post in question that you quoted. Because THEY were seemingly saying I was playing "so different". And I called them on it. - About the only thing that might carry over is posting styles and even then CaerieD was town in both but changed her style deliberately between games, as she herself said, so that can't be relied on. To be honest, even though I think NAF looks scummy, I think Idle Thoughts P34 looks like a OMGUS vote. What case can I make? I've already put out what I thought, two times, about his role claim. It came far too early. Does that not trip ANY wires for you? Hey, that may be so. HOW do I know? I don't. I'm crew. Yeah, I will be. Just let me catch up. I would suggest however that you make fact based arguments, and detail the consequences of the choice. I've been trying. Not only did I outline that I thought the role claim that early was TOO early and for no good reason..I also pointed out that zuma never even VOTED for me, even though he apparently saw me "attack" him. Does this not trip your meter either? Mad, I'm not gonna argue with you on Hal, for many reasons. But do NOT start bandwagoning zuma. The pirate is Idle Thoughts. That did it. You MUST be scum as well. WHY are you being so STONEWALLED in your thinking? Why are you not even thinking it could be the other way around, EVEN A LITTLE? I cannot believe that YOU, the person who always lists all of the possiblities, are just going full force toward ONE and refuse to examine any other. And if you are scum..then that means FCOD must be as well. A few more things before I end this very long post: Sorry for the huge emotion. I know it's just a game and, contrary to how you think I'm being, I'm actually thinking this is a great game. I'm not UPSET in my posts...I'm just very into the game and emotional. Really, I love this game so this stuff really gets my blood pumping. Especially when I know I'm on the side of right and will ultimitly be proven/shown right in the end, no matter what happens. Thank you, Mal for answering and expanding on those questions. I'll stick it out to the end. And I will be composing a list of who I think are scum before the end of today, rest assured. (Edited to fix tag - Mal)
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Post by capybara on Jun 9, 2007 16:00:51 GMT -5
Oh, and I think Zuma's lying b/c he's too smart to role-claim so suddenly. I want 'im to post more so we can sniff out the plot between these two scalliwags. I disagree that we are forced to believe Zuma's role-claim and I disagree that he was in true danger of being lynched. Five votes aint be a fart to the wind when there be two days left over. I think it was about two days anyway. Get the cut of my jib eh, I'm not lookin' to lynch Zuma, but it be his silence that be botherin' me somethin' fierce. Of course, only tha night owls be hootin' at this dread hour. Sounds like Auto knows something we don't,I hate to point it out, but I think it's something the scum well notice as well.So, in light of Auto's vote and Idle's impassioned pleas,I took a look back at zuma and I ain't buying his role claim anymore. As for Auto's post...maybe he's seeing something you don't, AZteach? Although I'm not any of those people. I have no role. So there's allegedly some pearl of wisdom in Auto's posts-- clearly very subtly phrased-- that we're not picking up on that these two discern-- some dangerous fact that the pirates might notice as well and make use of. The similarity in phrasing of the latter two posts is interesting. What special knowledge are we supposed to think Auto has? Exegetes?
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 9, 2007 16:25:08 GMT -5
Notice that Idle did not respond to the best information the Crew has: who the Officers are voting for. This is clear-cut!
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 9, 2007 16:37:13 GMT -5
Notice that Idle did not respond to the best information the Crew has: who the Officers are voting for. This is clear-cut! Huh? I already said that I'm really starting to think that AZteach is taking everyone for a ride as well..and if he is, then that means FCOD is as well. I mean, why is he ( ArizonaTeach) SO CONVINCED I'm a "pirate" when I'm actually not? He's not even getting consideration that it might be a mistake. His posts reflect that he is absolutely sure. But see, when it's proven that he's absolutely wrong, I hope others start looking at him and his role claims very carefully. I already know zuma's was false (and soon, you all will too...most unfortunatly after it's too late and I'm killed off)..so why couldn't his and FCODs be as well?
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 9, 2007 16:48:06 GMT -5
Notice that Idle did not respond to the best information the Crew has: who the Officers are voting for. This is clear-cut! Huh? I already said that I'm really starting to think that AZteach is taking everyone for a ride as well..and if he is, then that means FCOD is as well. I mean, why is he ( ArizonaTeach) SO CONVINCED I'm a "pirate" when I'm actually not? He's not even getting consideration that it might be a mistake. His posts reflect that he is absolutely sure. But see, when it's proven that he's absolutely wrong, I hope others start looking at him and his role claims very carefully. I already know zuma's was false (and soon, you all will too...most unfortunatly after it's too late and I'm killed off)..so why couldn't his and FCODs be as well? Because, just maybe, he knows how the Doctor feels about zuma's claim? Are you really suggesting that the true Officers are all in hiding? Because it would be so easy for one Officer to counter-claim our current claimers and make a two-for-one trade. Because that's what it'd take for a reasonable Crew to not vote to lynch you.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 9, 2007 16:55:09 GMT -5
Huh? I already said that I'm really starting to think that AZteach is taking everyone for a ride as well..and if he is, then that means FCOD is as well. I mean, why is he ( ArizonaTeach) SO CONVINCED I'm a "pirate" when I'm actually not? He's not even getting consideration that it might be a mistake. His posts reflect that he is absolutely sure. But see, when it's proven that he's absolutely wrong, I hope others start looking at him and his role claims very carefully. I already know zuma's was false (and soon, you all will too...most unfortunatly after it's too late and I'm killed off)..so why couldn't his and FCODs be as well? Because, just maybe, he knows how the Doctor feels about zuma's claim? Are you really suggesting that the true Officers are all in hiding? Because it would be so easy for one Officer to counter-claim our current claimers and make a two-for-one trade. Because that's what it'd take for a reasonable Crew to not vote to lynch you. I have no idea what the case may be. AZ and FCOD may REALLY be what they claim they are but if so, they're going to be pretty hurt by the info that will come to light upon my death. Because AZ, in no less than three posts, I've read, has all of said that ' Idle Thoughts is a pirate'. He even bolded it in one post. Seems to me that that's not giving any leeway for the adverse. Seems to me he's not saying "he's sure" that I am one...seems to me he's saying "no doubt about it, he IS one". And THAT will hurt him later, I do feel....whether or not he is what he says he is. He just better have a good explanation later for his set in stone surity and what MADE HIM "so sure" when it turns out he was wrong. And if he IS really what he says he is..then I feel sorry for FCOD because then HE really is what HE says he is too...yet he'll be thrown into the high suspicion too based on his fellow "mason's" posts. Seriously. I'm crew. So you better get those explanations ready for the next Day as to why you were so sure, AZ, and wouldn't even consider at all that zuma could be lying. I hope they're good ones too. These players seem pretty fast to lynch.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 9, 2007 17:04:20 GMT -5
Because, just maybe, he knows how the Doctor feels about zuma's claim? Are you really suggesting that the true Officers are all in hiding? Because it would be so easy for one Officer to counter-claim our current claimers and make a two-for-one trade. Because that's what it'd take for a reasonable Crew to not vote to lynch you. I have no idea what the case may be. AZ and FCOD may REALLY be what they claim they are but if so, they're going to be pretty hurt by the info that will come to light upon my death. Because AZ, in no less than three posts, I've read, has all of said that ' Idle Thoughts is a pirate'. He even bolded it in one post. Seems to me that that's not giving any leeway for the adverse. Seems to me he's not saying "he's sure" that I am one...seems to me he's saying "no doubt about it, he IS one". And THAT will hurt him later, I do feel....whether or not he is what he says he is. He just better have a good explanation later for his set in stone surity and what MADE HIM "so sure" when it turns out he was wrong. And if he IS really what he says he is..then I feel sorry for FCOD because then HE really is what HE says he is too...yet he'll be thrown into the high suspicion too based on his fellow "mason's" posts. Seriously. I'm crew. So you better get those explanations ready for the next Day as to why you were so sure, AZ, and wouldn't even consider at all that zuma could be lying. I hope they're good ones too. These players seem pretty fast to lynch. Idle, I'd like to point out that perhaps consideration was given by the officers to the possiblity that zuma's role claim is BS. I know I considered it. I am still considering it. It doesn't change my mind that you are the best lynch for today given the evidence at hand. I think that is what everyone is trying to say: Yes, zuma could be lying, but Idle is the best logical choice to lynch. Worst case lynching you is that we lose a crew member. Worst case lynching zuma is that we lose a power role. No question which I am more comfortable with.
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Post by cowgirl on Jun 9, 2007 17:08:27 GMT -5
See, Idle, the thing is, you're really not sounding like crew right now.
If you turn out to be crew, of course we will go back and look at ArizonaTeach and zuma and everyone else who was so sure you are a pirate.
If what you say is true, your death will be great for us. If it turns out you're crew then you're right, we will have compelling evidence against the abovementioned folks as well as others, most likely.
You need to trust us. We are your teammates, your crew. If you are crew, we will certainly avenge your death and also learn from it!
It is really scummy to hold your own life so highly when the crew stands to gain so much information from your death.
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Post by tirial on Jun 9, 2007 17:10:03 GMT -5
Idle Thoughts "I also pointed out that zuma never even VOTED for me, even though he apparently saw me "attack" him."
That is a good point - when I checked zuma's posts he hasn't voted for you today (He did on day 3 however). zuma, if you saw Idle Thoughts attack you, why haven't you voted for him?
If Idle Thoughts is lynched and turns out to be scum, then that means zuma is pretty much confirmed as Steele, but if Idle Thoughts turns out to be crew, that's going to make zuma a liar and (if we believe Idle Thoughts) also cast some doubt on Arizonateach and FCOD. Currently both officers are saying that they think Idle Thoughts is scum, and aren't even looking like they doubt zuma's roleclaim.
However if it comes down to a choice between lynching a potential crew and lynching a potential power role, I think I have to go with the first option.
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Post by capybara on Jun 9, 2007 17:42:11 GMT -5
Ok. Possibilities: We kill Idle Thoughts; he doesn't roleclaim. A) he's a pirate: good b) he's vanilla crew and takes one for the team. Bad. Then we kill Zuma the pirate: good. You and others keep saying this. I don't get this at all. To what point does "taking one for the team" stop? What, when there's only TWO crew left? Would you still say that one should "take one for the team" then? I mean when we're first starting out that may be great but come ON. THREE crew have already been lynched. And THREE others on Nights. That's a total of SIX CREW so far. DO YOU REALLY NEED to LOSE another just for the chance of getting your first pirate? Pleonast says it's one for one..but that's way off and I think he knows that. It's actuall six for one so far if you lynch me..just to find out zuma was lying all that time. You're assigning skewed significance to this math. Six crewmembers down for far. We lynch you, you're crew, we lynch Zuma. That's seven crew to one pirate (and a situation based on a baroque sequence of lies which would unveil a very very interesting set of circumstances). We lynch you, you're a pirate. Finis. That's six crew to one pirate. 7:1 and 6:1 aren't all that far apart-- not far enough to change the weight of a vanilla crew sacrifice overnight, simply because it happens to be you. You are only one crewmember (worse case scenario) (and it could be argued that we're two crewmembers better off than we expected to be today in the first place! Whee!). If you're one of three pirates, however, your death is extremely important to a pirate-- a much more rare and important animal.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 9, 2007 18:24:08 GMT -5
Idle, I'd like to point out that perhaps consideration was given by the officers to the possiblity that zuma's role claim is BS. I know I considered it. I am still considering it. Then why, do you think, AZTeach has said in three posts: "Idle Thoughts is a Pirate" and "Idle Thoughts is the pirate!"? Both are verbatim. Both leave no room for even the slightest possiblity that I'm not really a pirate. Seriously, don't speak for others if you can. I KNOW you're considerng it. I'm saying he's not and I think that's pretty apparent in the posts he's made. I'm saying that really looks shady...and will really hurt him later on when the truth is seen. Sorry, I don't see that. Allow me to repost AZteachers (again, who roleclamed a mason, keep in mind) few posts earlier today: Bolding mine. Seems to me he KNOWS something more that CONVINCES him beyond a doubt that I'm a pirate. This makes me wonder what it could be that makes him think something so wrongly. So when I'm dead at the end of this Day and he's found out to be wrong...I hope he's one of them (the next Day) ridden like never before to find out WHAT, exactly, he "knew" that made him think I was a pirate, for sure. Because whatever it is...it's wrong. Very wrong. I can even understand if he's seeing something the DOC is saying in here (like voting for me or something) that is making him think that the Doc DID protect zuma. But stay with me here in this line of thoughts for a moment....even if that is the case....COULD IT NOT BE that the Doc, too, was wrong?! I don't get that. Maybe the Doc DID protect zuma last Night. This just means that the Doc believed zuma saying that he's Steele. It doesn't mean zuma couldn't be lying and the Doc was fooled...but no... ArizonaTeach isn't even CONSIDERING this. He's obviously going under other (false) knowledge..and I hope he's got a good explanation the next Day for it. Again, look here: Mad, I'm not gonna argue with you on Hal, for many reasons. But do NOT start bandwagoning zuma. The pirate is Idle Thoughts. Bolding HIS. He's not saying he's considering it, hockey. He's saying I am this. PERIOD. So no matter WHAT he really is or isn't or may be or may be not, this narrowmindedness is very, very bad for town. Because he'll be called on this later for it, I feel and if HE IS a mason, well, then that's bad all round. Really. I just think he must be going on based on something he's seeing (such as the Doc voting for me or saying, subtly, that he DID protect zuma last night). So what? So that gives weight to zuma saying he was protected while still being able to watch someone. But that STILL DOESN'T SAY THAT ZUMA can't be lying! HE IS...and if FCOD and AZteach are really who they say they are...then they really need to take a step back and admit to themselves that they and they're precious Doc could be wrong about this. Because they ARE. And based on that, you guys need to really think about WHAT THAT WILL SAY for YOU TWO once I'm shown to be town. Lastly, the people voting for zuma (Me, auto, and MtS); this kinda shows and proves that they are NOT the Doc IF AZteach is what he says he is. Because he's obviously not putting any creedence to what they're saying and still ruggedly proclaiming I'm scum. In short, I really hope he isn't what he claims to be. Because this is one huge clusterfuck and town (AKA them, if they ARE for true) will really be in a bad way after I'm gone.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 9, 2007 18:34:33 GMT -5
See, Idle, the thing is, you're really not sounding like crew right now. What, pray tell, is crew SUPPOSED to sound like? I don't get this. What do you expect of me? What are you thinking I should be saying? I'm saying what I feel and think I should be saying. I don't know what else I COULD say to make you believe me. So see, in so many small ways, all of you voting for me will be wrong and have to rethink your ways of playing the game and "feels". Because you say I'm not sounding like crew right now. So when you see that I really AM crew, you're going to be forced to admit to yourself "Okay..maybe crew WOULD sound like that then". How can I trust anyone in this game if nobody will trust me? I've even tried to comprimise and say "Look, don't vote for EITHER of us then and wait on further info." but nobody seems to want to do that. Hell, ArizonaTeach said that when he first started posting in this topic. Now suddenly he's changed his tune drastically. Makes you wonder what he's seen between then and now in this topic. Or what he knows. You really can't expect me to say or act any different. I know I'm crew and I know zuma is lying. So therefore I know that if you all voted for zuma, you'd get scum. Therefore, again, I can't wrap my mind around this whole "lets kill you so we can kill him". If you all killed him now, you wouldn't HAVE to kill me. And yeah, I know what you and others will say "Better you then a possible Captain Steele"...but he's not CS for ONE...but for TWO, the things I've been hearing all this time is that "Oh, I think I can guess who is really crew. They have a subtle posting way about them." This being from just about EVERYONE! So where are you people now, then? If you're so sure about true crew having something more in their posts that can't be faked, why MUST you all kill me off JUST to see if zuma is lying. Have you even seen zuma say much in here? No? And why do you think that is, huh? Maybe because he knows he WON'T have that little something extra in his posts that would be the sign of a true crew? Seriously. I've seen about five people say that so far since this whole game began. That you could tell. So where are you all, huh? Why aren't you seeing it here? And most important, since it seems you're all NOT seeing it, how much will you all have to admit to yourself that MAYBE YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE IT IF IT WERE THERE? Because I have news for everyone. It's right here. It's right in all of my posts. I am an honest member of the crewIt is really scummy to hold your own life so highly when the crew stands to gain so much information from your death.[/quote]
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 9, 2007 18:39:33 GMT -5
You're assigning skewed significance to this math. It's not skewed at all if you KNOW WHAT I KNOW. Killing me will make it SEVEN to ONE so far, as you say.......But see, you're forgetting there will be another Night before the next Day starts. So that's a POSSIBLE two more crew members dead. So that's a possible NINE to ONE standing so far. A possible NINE crew members dead before the first pirate is killed off? Those are NOT good numbers. Killing zuma today would make it currently only SIX crew dead before getting your first pirate. And yes, six is better than having a potential NINE dead before the first one is found.
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Post by zuma on Jun 9, 2007 18:48:27 GMT -5
Geez, Idle. You seem to be trying to do your best to out the doc, there.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 9, 2007 18:52:29 GMT -5
Not at all. I'm simply building the case more and more against AZ and FCOD probably not being what they say they are due to AZ "stone surity" at me being something I'm really not.
You know you're as good as dead as I am, zuma. If I got tonight, you know you'll go next Day. Better start hatching a fool-proof excuse.
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