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Post by storyteller0910 on Sept 8, 2014 7:41:45 GMT -5
Dark Souls 2 Day Five – Return to Majula With a rare combination of growing bravery and skill, the Chosen Undead conquered Sinner's Rise, and finished the creature called The Lost Sinner. Before the little gathering following along behind the Chosen could even regroup, the Chosen had returned to Majula, plunged down the seemingly bottomless pit in the center of town, navigated the treacherous valley of poison and disease called The Gutter, and defeated an impossible conglomeration of garbage and decaying corpses known only as the Rotten.
But the others had apparently tired of violence, at least for one night. Not only did no one new turn up looking Hollow or miserable, one among them was actually feeling much better.
Swammerdami is HUMAN again--- OK, Day Five begins here. In light of the modest participation, but in the hopes of finishing the game in a timely fashion, we're going to make a few shifts to the set-up. Namely:
1. Days will now last 72 real life hours. This means that Day Five will end at 12:30PM on Thursday, September 11. I will extend the day by 24 or 48 hours if a simple majority of living players vote for this.
Also, and very importantly:
2. Beginning with Day Five, the lynch will now count double, such that if a player is lynched while Human, that player will be permanently killed rather than just Hollowed. No other killing/restorative mechanics will be changed.
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 8, 2014 8:14:01 GMT -5
Vote: Meeko
.... Details to follow.
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Post by guiri on Sept 8, 2014 8:52:53 GMT -5
Swammi, were you blocked last Night?
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Meeko
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Day Five
Sept 8, 2014 9:36:28 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Meeko on Sept 8, 2014 9:36:28 GMT -5
Meeko.... Details to follow. Inquiring minds want to know. Mine especially.
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Meeko
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Day Five
Sept 8, 2014 9:42:09 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Meeko on Sept 8, 2014 9:42:09 GMT -5
Vote: Swammerdammi
The vote mow, reason later approach, as policy, is what gains the vote at present.
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 8, 2014 10:11:32 GMT -5
Swammi, were you blocked last Night? Are you fishing? If I don't have a Power, or have one but didn't use it, would Storyteller tell me I was blocked? (I honestly don't know -- I don't recall any Mafia game where anyone found me interesting enough to block before. ) Anyway, didn't I already reveal my opinion in D4.19 ? I still think you're Town and if I had anything new or useful to report I'd spend my last soapstone and tell you all about it. But I don't. ... Except that Meeko is Scum. What are you waiting for? Do I have to spell it out?
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Post by guiri on Sept 8, 2014 10:18:16 GMT -5
I figured your comment yesterDay was conjecture but toDay you may have been able to prove or disprove the theory. While not entirely relevant now, tracking the number of actions will be useful if we ever get around to claims.
I´m happy to vote Meeko but you promised details to follow!
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 8, 2014 11:21:57 GMT -5
I´m happy to vote Meeko but you promised details to follow! I'm vaguely hoping there will be discussion. Once I reveal my suspicion of Meeko, I'm afraid the suspense will be gone and we'll all be begging for a Hammer to Lynch the Scum forthwith! But Dawn has been so delayed, I'll guess many Players don't even know Dawn has dawned. I'll guess Scum knows what I'm going to suggest, but with 60+ hours left in the Day, the professional play may be to wait a little bit. But I don't want to annoy you, guiri. How many hours till your bedtime? Should I just blurt out what's on my mind?
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Day Five
Sept 8, 2014 11:33:18 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by guiri on Sept 8, 2014 11:33:18 GMT -5
Don't rush for me. Not a lot has changed since yesterDay, Suburban is a little sicker and you're a little healthier. I intended to vote Suburban again toDay -he's still my top candidate, but if there's a stronger reason to believe Meeko is scum, of course I'll vote there instead.
As for discussion, it is curious that there were no attacks, or at least no successful attacks, last Night after two attacks on night 3. Sleepy scum, well aimed blocks, protections or shortage of souls?
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 8, 2014 12:24:56 GMT -5
While waiting for other Players to check in, I wonder if folks would mind more meta-discussion about storyteller's setup. One fun part of the game is the soapstones, and the fact they we only have a few. If we ever play a game like this again, what I might do in a PM to another Player is to enclose a code-book, so that future signalling could be done in thread without wasting soapstones! Does this seem too perverse? Or even un-sportsmanlike? I used to play contract bridge, and the theory of bidding systems intrigued me. Designing a codebook for use in Mafia Games seems like an interesting problem. It would be cheating for players to privately agree on a codebook in advance, but if they agree on the codebook via soapstone PM's after the game starts would that be cheating? My question is very sincere: some things which seem natural to me might seem like cheating to others. Assuming a codebook is fair-play, how would you set it up? No one would want one that is very complicated. One simple approach, that might be good enough, is to just assign code words for each Player in the game. The intended recipient (and each Player pair would want its own code-book so that there was no leakage) would notice the key word, look it up in a table to see which Player it mapped to, and then guess what message was intended from context! Do Players think this is a good idea? Or is it a form of cheating? My own feeling is that it's a natural extension of the soapstone power, but others might vehemently disagree. A final question, in the design of such a codebook, is what sort of words to use. Obviously you wouldn't want to use common words like "want" or "the," but you wouldn't want to use rare words like "amethyst" either. For example, one phrase that caught my eye in this Game was when someone mentioned that "Swammerdammi claimed some of Chameleon's souls." "Claimed" seemed slightly unnatural in this sentence and I thought, briefly, that someone might be sending a coded message to someone else. But no. I'll guess instead that very few are "perverted" enough to even entertain the thought of such coded signalling!
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 8, 2014 12:25:12 GMT -5
If it is conjecture, we should probably talk about it, assuming ppl are around to talk. If it is results of some action, we should probably still talk. I say get it off your chest, Swammer.
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 8, 2014 12:51:37 GMT -5
OK.
I accuse Meeko of being Scum, but not lying Scum. To the contrary, he's been telling the truth and it is his own words which show his guilt! He says he has no Power but is not Vanilla. MentalGuy already discussed this:
It's hard to quote from locked threads, so let's just note that Meeko has been begging for any Detective to claim and announce what Townies he's discovered. This is almost too blatant:
"Detective, Please tell everybody I'm Townie before we Night-Kill you. Otherwise my Godfather power goes to waste!"
But Meeko isn't Godfather. Let's quote from Mafia Wiki:
Traitor shares one important trait with Godfather: He wants the Town Cop to Investigate him. But he also wants Scum to know he's their Traitor. And Meeko's posts have been dual-usage. He hoped his teammates knew they had a Traitor and wanted to signal who it was!
Meeko is the Traitor.
He's been waiting for a PM from his teammates "We have a Traitor working for us and think it's you" ... or whatever Scum does when they think they know who their Traitor is.
(One guess is they attempted to Night-Kill him, but the Night-Kill converts into a recruitment if they target the Traitor. That's a common mechanic according to the Mafia Wiki quote above. There was no Night-Kill last Night -- I think Scum finally figured out who their Traitor was.)
Last Night, an orange soapstone was spent "There is a traitor in this game". Let's look at Meeko's response to that (which came before he made contact with his Scumbuddies, in my conjecture):
This is a dual use post. He's trying to confuse Town and deflect attention from the notion of Traitor as a special role. Yet at the same time -- "tell us nothing" -- he's telling his unknown Scum-buddies that he's learned nothing new because he himself is the Traitor!
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 8, 2014 13:06:19 GMT -5
The fore-going assumes that the message "There is a traitor" is true. But I know who sent that soapstone and I know it's true. Here is (much of) my role PM: MentalGuy sent the message. Was that wise? Any need for silence may have passed: Meeko's posts have been shrieking that he is the Traitor. I'll guess that MentalGuy, also a Pilgrim of the Dark, was also informed about the Vile Betrayer in his role PM. But it wouldn't matter -- I enclosed much of my role in my very first PM to him. ... ... ... Now, someone please explain to me how stupid and ignorant it was for me to reveal this.
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Day Five
Sept 8, 2014 14:20:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by guiri on Sept 8, 2014 14:20:07 GMT -5
Interesting, makes some sense, especially since MentalGuy was hounding Meeko about his vanilla claim from D1. Knowing that there's a traitor in the game explains his motivations to vote him - Meeko's claim could be interpreted as a signal. As for a successful recruitment attempt being the reason for no attacks last Night, there's no evidence to support that. I agree Meeko seemed to want to be investigated but how would that work if he's a member of the scum team? Possibly because he'd appear town to a cop and so would be "confirmed" while still hoping to be recruited - but that's pretty much standard for Meeko, for him mafia is about being confirmed and working from solid facts.
I was expecting more conclusive or damning evidence but this is certainly a case and I hope Meeko responds.
For now though,
Vote Suburban
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 8, 2014 15:02:22 GMT -5
I'm willing to add more pressure on our dear Meeko. I wonder if he's gotten any love from any merchants who might be listening.
Vote: Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 8, 2014 16:20:02 GMT -5
OK. I accuse Meeko of being Scum, but not lying Scum. To the contrary, he's been telling the truth and it is his own words which show his guilt! He says he has no Power but is not Vanilla. MentalGuy already discussed this: It's hard to quote from locked threads, so let's just note that Meeko has been begging for any Detective to claim and announce what Townies he's discovered. This is almost too blatant: "Detective, Please tell everybody I'm Townie before we Night-Kill you. Otherwise my Godfather power goes to waste!" But Meeko isn't Godfather. Let's quote from Mafia Wiki: Traitor shares one important trait with Godfather: He wants the Town Cop to Investigate him. But he also wants Scum to know he's their Traitor. And Meeko's posts have been dual-usage. He hoped his teammates knew they had a Traitor and wanted to signal who it was!Meeko is the Traitor.He's been waiting for a PM from his teammates "We have a Traitor working for us and think it's you" ... or whatever Scum does when they think they know who their Traitor is. (One guess is they attempted to Night-Kill him, but the Night-Kill converts into a recruitment if they target the Traitor. That's a common mechanic according to the Mafia Wiki quote above. There was no Night-Kill last Night -- I think Scum finally figured out who their Traitor was.) Last Night, an orange soapstone was spent " There is a traitor in this game". Let's look at Meeko's response to that (which came before he made contact with his Scumbuddies, in my conjecture): This is a dual use post. He's trying to confuse Town and deflect attention from the notion of Traitor as a special role. Yet at the same time -- "tell us nothing" -- he's telling his unknown Scum-buddies that he's learned nothing new because he himself is the Traitor! LET'S DANCE /Johnny Cage I accuse Swammer of being scum. It's a scummy thing to do, to vote first, then concoct reasoning after you've consulted your scummates on a scum board. Swammer is a full on scum, and doesn't need to secret handshake to join their scummates. They've worked up this argument, all of them. Whereas if Swammer is to be believed I am just off by myself. I think I am, and always will be low fruit, due to my playstyle. A concerted effort of many against one. If I were as Swammer suggests, wouldn't soapstones have been employed before now, in private to win me over? The argument falls flat. --------------------------------------- We both agree I am telling the Truth. ---------------------------------------- My own words show my guilt. Which words were those again? You have the burden, not me. And your support comes from Mental Guy What was his alignment again? The argument falls flat. --------------------------------------- If only I had made a statement earlier, about passive powers....... idlemafia.com/post/114345Back on Night 1. ---------------------------------------- I'm not certain what to argue against, the notion that I'm a Godfather, or that I'm a Traitor. Get your story straight Also, where exactly did you say that the traitor is a false positive to a detective? You implied it? But not really. ------------------------------------------ He's been waiting for a PM from his teammates "We have a Traitor working for us and think it's you" ... or whatever Scum does when they think they know who their Traitor is. or whatever Scum does when they think they know who their Traitor is. You really didn't think this fabrication all the way through did you? Why wouldn't scum use soapstones? Oh right, because that would invalidate your previous tenets. The argument falls flat. -------------------- Last Night, an orange soapstone was spent " There is a traitor in this game". Let's look at Meeko's response to that (which came before he made contact with his Scumbuddies, in my conjecture): ---------------------- No. Because it couldn't be that I am way of the blue, and therefore, have no scummates to contact. Never! OCCAMS RAZOR.Just performed a vivisection on your argument. ---------------- This is a dual use post. He's trying to confuse Town and deflect attention from the notion of Traitor as a special role. Yet at the same time -- "tell us nothing" -- he's telling his unknown Scum-buddies that he's learned nothing new because he himself is the Traitor! This is pure wine. Man in Black: All right. Where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead. Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me. Man in Black: You've made your decision then? Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. Man in Black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect. Vizzini: Wait till I get going! Now, where was I? Man in Black: Australia. ---------------- But I digress. Suffice to say you are wrong, and I doubt that even you believe your rationale here. __________ Also, I'm reminded of this post by you: idlemafia.com/post/114361In which again you throw anything and everything at the wall, to hope something will stick. A few posts down, I call you out on it, citing you opened a Red Herring business, Turns out I was right. ---------------------------------- I breadcrumbed my alignment in the Night 0 post. I am The Way of the Blue. Google "Eiffel 65 Blue"
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Post by Meeko on Sept 8, 2014 16:49:09 GMT -5
I'm just putting both of these together here, and posting it, so I can review both in an active unlocked thread. Swammer these are both yours, yes? The fore-going assumes that the message "There is a traitor" is true. But I know who sent that soapstone and I know it's true. Here is (much of) my role PM: MentalGuy sent the message. Was that wise? Any need for silence may have passed: Meeko's posts have been shrieking that he is the Traitor. I'll guess that MentalGuy, also a Pilgrim of the Dark, was also informed about the Vile Betrayer in his role PM. But it wouldn't matter -- I enclosed much of my role in my very first PM to him. ... ... ... Now, someone please explain to me how stupid and ignorant it was for me to reveal this. I've been debating whether to do a Partial Role Claim I'd probably want to do one sooner or later; doing it now means I needn't worry this decision anymore. The claim will be an implicit handshake request. I hope this doesn't spoil the game too much for Suburban Plankton, but I give Storyteller credit: the handshake possibility was probably intentional. I am a "SURVIVOR (Non-Hostile)". Story promised that every Player will have a Power. I have a weak Power that may not help my survival, but might have a slight use for Town and I intend to ally with Town. (Unfortunately, as yet I'm getting strong Town vibes from NONE of you. ) My role PM makes it seem likely that there are one or more others in the same Covenant as myself. We don't act together, or know each other, and our win-cons are independent: my win-con is just MY personal survival, and I assume other members of the Covenant are in the same boat. Nevertheless there might be some advantage to knowing each other. We needn't Lynch each other for one thing! And, we'd be a little like Masons: when one dies and flips, the others, if properly breadcrumbed, would be confirmed as also Non-Hostile Survivors. The name of my Covenant has 4 words, 17 letters. One of the letters in the first word is 'R.' If you are in my Covenant, please send me a PM proving it. I will reciprocate information: If you tell me your special Power, I'll tell you mine, etc. Since the Covenant might have three or more players, please tell me in the PM whether you want your info relayed to a 3rd Covenant member. I'll relay nothing unless BOTH members so indicate. Read more: idlemafia.com/thread/2320/day-welcome-majula#ixzz3ClMtdXhS
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 8, 2014 17:05:34 GMT -5
And if anyone wants to doubt Meeko, I investigated him last night, and he is Town. 100%.
More reveals to follow.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Sept 8, 2014 17:06:24 GMT -5
Hmmm, I believe that Swammer is onto something here. Exactly what I'm not sure.
Yes I believe that Swammer has identified the true meaning of the "There is a traitor" message.
And yes you are right in most cases:
Traitor is a Mafia, but Scum doesn't know who the Traitor is, and the Traitor doesn't know who Scum is. And Traitors are investigated as Town.
Is Meeko the Traitor? I don't know if the case on Meeko is as strong as you make it out to be.
There are a bunch of passive or seemingly passive roles: Lovers Traitor/Godfather Miller Gunsmith Bulletproof
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 8, 2014 17:08:41 GMT -5
And if anyone wants to doubt Meeko, I investigated him last night, and he is Town. 100%. More reveals to follow. Unless you have a foolproof investigation power, a town read on a Traitor could be expected.
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 8, 2014 17:12:11 GMT -5
And if anyone wants to doubt Meeko, I investigated him last night, and he is Town. 100%. More reveals to follow. Unless you have a foolproof investigation power, a town read on a Traitor could be expected. I am given what faction they are playing for. Meeko is part of the Way of the Blue, as is Bufftabby.
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 8, 2014 17:15:15 GMT -5
The fore-going assumes that the message "There is a traitor" is true. But I know who sent that soapstone and I know it's true. Here is (much of) my role PM: MentalGuy sent the message. Was that wise? Any need for silence may have passed: Meeko's posts have been shrieking that he is the Traitor. I'll guess that MentalGuy, also a Pilgrim of the Dark, was also informed about the Vile Betrayer in his role PM. But it wouldn't matter -- I enclosed much of my role in my very first PM to him. ... ... ... Now, someone please explain to me how stupid and ignorant it was for me to reveal this. It actually clears you, because I investigated you Night 3, and can confirm that I got the same result (and that you are non-hostile to the Way of the Blue)
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 8, 2014 17:16:11 GMT -5
My final investigation was Cookies (Night 1), and he has been truthful as well. He is also non-hostile...
So, let's find some scum now....
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 8, 2014 17:18:01 GMT -5
So, we have scum lurking in this pool
1. Mahaloth (Human) 2. Guiri (Human) 5. Dizzymrslizzy (Human) 6. Peekercpa (Human) 8. Sinjin (Human) 9. Suburban Plankton (HOLLOW) 10. Gnarlycharlie (Human) 12. Abstain (Human)
Not sure whom is most likely to be scum...
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Post by Meeko on Sept 8, 2014 17:25:47 GMT -5
So, we have scum lurking in this pool 1. Mahaloth (Human) 2. Guiri (Human) 5. Dizzymrslizzy (Human) 6. Peekercpa (Human) 8. Sinjin (Human) 9. Suburban Plankton (HOLLOW) 10. Gnarlycharlie (Human) 12. Abstain (Human) Not sure whom is most likely to be scum... Noted.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 8, 2014 17:27:00 GMT -5
Unvote: Swammer
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 8, 2014 17:29:26 GMT -5
Unless you have a foolproof investigation power, a town read on a Traitor could be expected. I am given what faction they are playing for. Meeko is part of the Way of the Blue, as is Bufftabby. Colby, I take this to strongly imply that there is no Godfather type false positives in this game. -- that your results can be trusted 100% of the time. Do also subscribe to this notion?
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Post by Meeko on Sept 8, 2014 17:44:08 GMT -5
Colby would you object to a role claim?
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Post by abstain on Sept 8, 2014 17:47:34 GMT -5
Vile Betrayer, I.E. traitor makes little sense for a member of WOTB, so the traitor would have to be of what we assume is the other three covenants, though faction scan wouldn't break cover role I imagine.
Maha or dizzy is fine to go after in my opinion.
Swammerdami is Darkdiver Grandahl. I actually intially believed his argument on Meeko, as replying to the traitor post would be a good hint to the team.
I know Meeko can be a tad off center, but I find it hard to convince myself otherwise. Regardless, I will leave it alone for now.
Straid, if you are a member of the dark, it would be wise to claim now, rather than later.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 8, 2014 18:01:40 GMT -5
Who is Straid?
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