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Post by guiri on Sept 10, 2014 5:12:19 GMT -5
Actually, just in case, Colby, did you get the hostile/non-hostile result for each of the three WOTB results?
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 10, 2014 6:08:47 GMT -5
I've posted the relevant part of my role PM; the rest is deduction.
Clearly the Traitor will Investigate as the in the Covenant he seeks to betray. What if he's a Hostile in a non-hostile Covenant? I hope Colby posts the exact wordking if his results PM.
The Traitor cannot be a member of a Scum team which knows each others' identities: He'd just reveal the Scum names, publicly or by PM. It doesn't make sense that he's a "Scum" who doesn't know his teammates and is working for Town: That role is called Miller, not Traitor.
It's unlikely that Traitor is non-Hostile 3rd Party. Take my Covenant for example -- individual Survivor. What could it even mean for me to be a Traitor? That I want to be Killed?
Therefore the Traitor most probably Investigates as Town, but is allied with one or more Hostile factions.
What Powers if any might the Traitor have? Any Power, I suppose, but a powerful role would be unlikely. Doctor? A Traitor who doesn't know his teammates would probably not even use such a Power. Killer? To me a Traitor/Killer would be a peculiarly overpowered role.
Therefore, I think he (or she) has only a weak or passive Power, or perhaps a weak Investigative power -- he's looking for his Scum teammates. (The fact that Meeko claims no Power is one reason to suspect him. If he's an Investigator who gets only yes/no results, he couldn't safely claim.)
I think Meeko should post his role PM. If he doesn't we should Lynch him. If for some reason Town refuses to Lynch Meeko toDay, I suggest that we demand that he announces his Target for toNight. Perhaps Town has a Watcher who could draw a conclusion.
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Post by abstain on Sept 10, 2014 6:45:32 GMT -5
I'd certainly like to hear more from Meeko about his role.
Vote: Vote: Suburban Plankton
Still a good vote.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 10, 2014 6:49:52 GMT -5
I think Meeko should post his role PM. If he doesn't we should Lynch him. If for some reason Town refuses to Lynch Meeko toDay, I suggest that we demand that he announces his Target for toNight. Perhaps Town has a Watcher who could draw a conclusion.
Wow.
Town, are you ok with this?
Why do I need to post my PM? As I said earlier, and will say again, you wouldn't believe it, even though it was 100% truth.
You are so convinced of my scumliness, you won't let pesky facts stand in the way. You wouldn't know the facts of this game if they stood up and said "Hi, i'm a fact in this game."
What target am I declaring? For what power am I declaring it?
You want a watcher to watch me, to possibly clear me, but you won't take facts from the detective.
Why ate you still on me, despite the lurkers?
Your overagressive tons protests more than I have, or ever thought of doing.
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Post by bufftabby on Sept 10, 2014 7:32:18 GMT -5
I have never done this before, but is it time for claims? I will tell you all that I know from someone I trust that no one has switched covenants as of this Daybreak. This doesn't surprise me as I have received and rejected TWO recruitment offers. At Dusk Day 2, I was invited to join the Way of the Blue. At Dawn Day 4, I was invited to join the Royal Rats. I rejected the request from Scum without thought, but I certainly thought of joining the WotB. Night 2 was when I pleaded for a Townie to send me a PM. At that time I was sitting on a pile of Souls I'd acquired in the Chameleon Lynch, and I thought it was in Town's interest for me to gift them to a fellow Townie to keep Scum from getting them by Killing me. (I thought, and still think, guiri is Town, but it made no sense to gift Souls to a Hollowed Player.) When no Townie could be bothered to waste a soapstone on me, I rejected the recruitment request. Why wouldn't you accept a WotB request if you're allying yourself with Town anyway? I mean, I see your explanation that you didn't get any PMs begging you to, but I still don't get it. Is a recruitment attempt not enough of a signal that you're wanted by WotB? I don't have any reason to disbelieve your covenant claim, based on the handshake info you've posted, but your decision to forgo joining WotB when given the opportunity does make me question your non-hostile claim.
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Post by bufftabby on Sept 10, 2014 7:42:51 GMT -5
As to Colby's results, I think it's possible that his hostile/non-hostile results are accurate while his covenant results could be skewed by a traitor role, but I think it's equally possible that all of his info would be skewed on a traitor's results. I don't think anybody who's been investigated is really cleared at the moment, including myself, until we see a confirmation of how his power really works.
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Post by sinjin on Sept 10, 2014 11:14:41 GMT -5
This doesn't surprise me as I have received and rejected TWO recruitment offers. At Dusk Day 2, I was invited to join the Way of the Blue. At Dawn Day 4, I was invited to join the Royal Rats. I rejected the request from Scum without thought, but I certainly thought of joining the WotB. Night 2 was when I pleaded for a Townie to send me a PM. At that time I was sitting on a pile of Souls I'd acquired in the Chameleon Lynch, and I thought it was in Town's interest for me to gift them to a fellow Townie to keep Scum from getting them by Killing me. (I thought, and still think, guiri is Town, but it made no sense to gift Souls to a Hollowed Player.) When no Townie could be bothered to waste a soapstone on me, I rejected the recruitment request. Why wouldn't you accept a WotB request if you're allying yourself with Town anyway? I mean, I see your explanation that you didn't get any PMs begging you to, but I still don't get it. Is a recruitment attempt not enough of a signal that you're wanted by WotB? I don't have any reason to disbelieve your covenant claim, based on the handshake info you've posted, but your decision to forgo joining WotB when given the opportunity does make me question your non-hostile claim. I gotta agree with the buffster here. Swammerdammi reminds me of the guy on the roof in a flood who turns down rescue via helicopter and boat whilst waiting for God to save him. I find his reasons for rejecting WOTB recruitment suspicious for some one who supposedly supports the WOTB
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 10, 2014 12:39:32 GMT -5
Yeah that's pretty darn hokey, except why say so publicly? It is that much of a o_0
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Post by bufftabby on Sept 10, 2014 15:09:05 GMT -5
Heck, I'm wondering whether swammerdami isn't the traitor himself. I can't think of anything less pro-Town than refusing to become Town.
vote swammerdami [/color]
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 10, 2014 15:17:58 GMT -5
I'd certainly like to hear more from Meeko about his role. I'd certainly like to hear more from Abstain about what about Meeko's role he'd like to hear. Do I even need to bold my own name?
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Post by Meeko on Sept 10, 2014 15:19:47 GMT -5
Heck, I'm wondering whether swammerdami isn't the traitor himself. I can't think of anything less pro-Town than refusing to become Town. vote swammerdami [/color][/quote] You Blue It. and well, you also blew it, too.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 10, 2014 15:22:31 GMT -5
Unvote: Guiri Unvote: Swammer
You admit to not joining town.
That is anti town.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 10, 2014 15:22:42 GMT -5
Ok, so the buttons aren't working.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 10, 2014 15:24:07 GMT -5
UNVOTE ALL
VOTE Swammer
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Post by sinjin on Sept 10, 2014 18:51:28 GMT -5
um, although I think Swammer is a goofnut with silly reasoning if he is not hostile to town I don't think we should be voting him. Voting him vs someone we think is hostile to town is anti-town. I think his actions have shown he prefers to win as a survivour not a team player. We cannot trust him to be on our side in the end but we don't need to kill lynch him toDay.
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Post by sinjin on Sept 10, 2014 18:54:05 GMT -5
NETA: If Swammer is a traitor to his covenant he is not a traitor to the WOTB.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 10, 2014 19:31:28 GMT -5
um, although I think Swammer is a goofnut with silly reasoning if he is not hostile to town I don't think we should be voting him. Voting him vs someone we think is hostile to town is anti-town. I think his actions have shown he prefers to win as a survivour not a team player. We cannot trust him to be on our side in the end but we don't need to kill lynch him toDay. To be exceedingly frank, what are the other options?
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 10, 2014 20:15:39 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think George Washington (? ) was wrong when he said "Honesty is the Best policy." Were any of you involved in Pizza's massively bizarre and super-complcated game at SDMB where it turned out there was a single Scum we were trying to Lynch, while the Players floated through various states, sometimes becoming Neutral or even Evil? On the final Day, I became "Evil" (I wasn't the first -- the other "Evils" hinted at it) but I knew the Evil win-con and knew that the "Evil" were not the single Scum Town was trying to Lynch and told everybody? Boom, they Lynched me; and the single Scum (Choie) who had accumulated enough brownie points won the game. That was just another example of where being honest got me wrongfully Lynched. In this game I'm just a Survivor. You know MentalGuy was in my Covenant. Do you think the two of us, even though non-Hostile, concocted some fake win-con? And that the role PM I posted was doctored? That MentalGuy was somehow in on it, pursuing the idea of Traitor while knowing the whole time that the Traitor was ME? Construct a scenario that meets these conditions and makes any sense whatsoever and I think you'll win some sort of award for impossible fiction. I play the Game for fun. To me it's not weird to play pro-Town when Survivor, nor to hope to survive when Town. Longevity, whether Survivor or not, makes the Game more fun. Here's a relevant fact: There's one clause in my Covenant's win-con which makes survival slightly more likely, and which I've never revealed to anyone, except MentalGuy, in PM. MentalGuy had the same Power -- you will knw, from his demise, that it improves survival chance only slightly. The Power is becoming less relevant as the Game continues, but it still seems pro-Scum to reveal it so I've kept it secret. But, as storyteller confirmed in PM when I asked him, that Power disappears if I leave the Pilgrims of the Dark. Becoming more likely to die by leaving the Pilgrims might actually be anti-Town(*)! (And more importantly for my fun, would reduce my expected longevity.) (* - This depends in part on whether Scum is just trying to outnumber Town or needs to outnumber non-Scum. I'm not familiar enough with Mafia games with 3rd-parties enough to know which is more likely and none of you bothered to address this question when I asked it in-thread.) Anyway, please do go ahead and Lynch me -- it won't be the first time I've been misLynched for stupid reasons. Let me make one request though. I'd like at least one of my voters to post a scenario that makes any sense whatsoever such that I need to be Lynched, and my actions and revealings made sense. Mafia players love puzzles and I think you'll find it a very difficult puzzle to crack. I'll start you with a hint: I have to be in cahoots with the Royal Rats if I'm Scum. Remember the Lynch of Chameleon the Dragon Remnant? Do you think I tried to Kill my teammate? I'm sure some of you don't ... So, in your scenario, I truthfully revealed a recruitment request to WotB which I rejected. Then invented a recruitment request to Royal Rats, with whom I was already allied! On second thought, I don't think you're going to get an award for fiction. The fiction you've concoted just cannot make any sense whatsoever. But go ahead and Lynch me. The "survival slightly more likely" Power I hinted out doesn't make me a Scotsman or anything like that. Lynch me and I'll be dead. I'll be happy to run over to the spoiled thread and see who the real Scums are.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 10, 2014 20:15:56 GMT -5
Actually, just in case, Colby, did you get the hostile/non-hostile result for each of the three WOTB results? Just two WOTB, but yes. Cookies and swammer were not, and I can only clear Swammer as of Night 3
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Post by bufftabby on Sept 10, 2014 20:25:56 GMT -5
Heck, I'm wondering whether swammerdami isn't the traitor himself. I can't think of anything less pro-Town than refusing to become Town. vote swammerdami [/color][/quote] You Blue It. and well, you also blew it, too. [/quote] vote swammerdami Now I blue it.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 10, 2014 20:29:56 GMT -5
Anyway, please do go ahead and Lynch me -- it won't be the first time I've been misLynched for stupid reasons. Let me make one request though. I'd like at least one of my voters to post a scenario that makes any sense whatsoever such that I need to be Lynched, and my actions and revealings made sense. Mafia players love puzzles and I think you'll find it a very difficult puzzle to crack. I'll start you with a hint: I have to be in cahoots with the Royal Rats if I'm Scum. Remember the Lynch of Chameleon the Dragon Remnant? Do you think I tried to Kill my teammate? I'm sure some of you don't ... So, in your scenario, I truthfully revealed a recruitment request to WotB which I rejected. Then invented a recruitment request to Royal Rats, with whom I was already allied! On second thought, I don't think you're going to get an award for fiction. The fiction you've concoted just cannot make any sense whatsoever. But go ahead and Lynch me. The "survival slightly more likely" Power I hinted out doesn't make me a Scotsman or anything like that. Lynch me and I'll be dead. I'll be happy to run over to the spoiled thread and see who the real Scums are. Excuse me, it's hard for me to get past the first line here. Ok, now let me continue, now that I have regained composure....... I've already posted the scenario you asked for. I'll repeat it. Not accepting town recruitment is anti-town. Being anti town is enough reason for votes placed upon you. Admitting it, and essentially spitting in our face over it? More than enough reason. Concocted fiction? You aren't going to win any medals either. I think I need to excuse myself again. Ok, I'm back, again. At last something we can agree on, I want you to know who the real scum are too. It' still a mystery to the both of us.
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 10, 2014 20:34:42 GMT -5
Shucks -- I'll just reveal the Special Power that MentalGuy and I shared. My role PM came in two installments. Here's the second installment in its entirety. Pilgrims of the DarkSURVIVOR (Non-Hostile) Members of this Covenant may not know one another, and they do not win or lose collectively; they are bonded instead by a shared commitment to exploration - to pushing the boundaries of what is possible to see and do. At one time or another, every member of this Covenant has spent at least some measure of time exploring the depths of the endless abyss called the Dark Chasm; the Chasm cannot help to influence those who have seen it, driving them to push ever onward. WIN CONDITION: Each member of the Pilgrims of the Dark wins if he or she is still alive when the game ends. SPECIAL POWER: The power of the Dark Chasm is gradually restorative. If any member of this Covenant should go Hollow, he or she will automatically return to Human form two full cycles later if not killed before then. TO JOIN: It is not possible for new players to join this Covenant. TO LEAVE: Any member of the Pilgrims of the Dark who feels that survival is not guaranteed is permitted to join any faction that offers them recruitment at any time. The Special Power can have the effect of counteracting a Scum Kill if they don't follow through. Thus, if I'm playing pro-Town anyway, joining the Town team officially and sacrificing that Special Power could actually be anti-Town. Get it? (I'll reveal something else, just because I'm exceptionally honest and candid. There is one Player in the Game whom I'm 99.9% certain is Town. I sent him the entirety of my role PM, both first and second installments, but excised that Special Power. I excised it for one simple reason: it would make it less likely he extended me the cooperation I asked for. This excision might have been more pro-Swammerdami than pro-Town. But to Lynch me for that now would be petty and silly.)
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Post by bufftabby on Sept 10, 2014 20:48:40 GMT -5
That was just another example of where being honest got me wrongfully Lynched. In this game I'm just a Survivor. You know MentalGuy was in my Covenant. Do you think the two of us, even though non-Hostile, concocted some fake win-con? And that the role PM I posted was doctored? That MentalGuy was somehow in on it, pursuing the idea of Traitor while knowing the whole time that the Traitor was ME? Construct a scenario that meets these conditions and makes any sense whatsoever and I think you'll win some sort of award for impossible fiction. I know that you and MentalGuy seem to share the same covenant, sure. But why would MentalGuy know if you were the Traitor? Isn't that kind of how the role works? Unfortunately, we don't know what MentalGuy knew or didn't know about you. So, is the power a good reason to reject recruitment or not? You claim that when you got the recruitment invitation, you "certainly thought of joining the WotB". You initially claimed that the reason you didn't is because nobody "could be bothered" to send you a PM. This doesn't surprise me as I have received and rejected TWO recruitment offers. At Dusk Day 2, I was invited to join the Way of the Blue. At Dawn Day 4, I was invited to join the Royal Rats. I rejected the request from Scum without thought, but I certainly thought of joining the WotB. Night 2 was when I pleaded for a Townie to send me a PM. At that time I was sitting on a pile of Souls I'd acquired in the Chameleon Lynch, and I thought it was in Town's interest for me to gift them to a fellow Townie to keep Scum from getting them by Killing me. (I thought, and still think, guiri is Town, but it made no sense to gift Souls to a Hollowed Player.) When no Townie could be bothered to waste a soapstone on me, I rejected the recruitment request. Again with the guilt trips! Jeez. Maybe nobody but Story and the scum know what's most likely either.
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 10, 2014 21:03:36 GMT -5
(1) I know that you and MentalGuy seem to share the same covenant, sure. But why would MentalGuy know if you were the Traitor? Isn't that kind of how the role works? Unfortunately, we don't know what MentalGuy knew or didn't know about you. (2) So, is the power a good reason to reject recruitment or not? You claim that when you got the recruitment invitation, you "certainly thought of joining the WotB". You initially claimed that the reason you didn't is because nobody "could be bothered" to send you a PM. (3) Again with the guilt trips! Jeez. Maybe nobody but Story and the scum know what's most likely either. (1) How in heaven's name can I be a "traitor" to a win-con which is personal survival??? Do you think that means I want to die, and you seek my Lynch toDay to do me a favor? Therefore I presume you must believe I lied about my win-con. Which means I lied about MentalGuy's win-con. Moreover, in your scenario, I was a Traitor to MentalGuy .. who knew there was a Traitor and knew I had lied about our win-con. I was very serious. If you can really make sense out of this, it might be bestselling fiction. (2) Apparently, for you, to consider more than one thing when evaluating a recruitment request is off-limits. I'll remember this -- next game, recruitment, I must blank my mind and think about only one thing . Ommmmm! (3) For goodness's sake! Most of us had just finished playing the aborted Dark Side I. AFAIK, spoiler boards were never opened for that Game, but those of you who were Scum there could make a very educated guess!!One thing occurs to me: My revealing has worked out to be very pro-Town. Those voting me for nonsensical reasons are most likely Scum, and, whether I survive or not, we have a much better handle on the game. Since Meeko is one voting me, there's no need for me to move my vote.
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Post by guiri on Sept 11, 2014 6:15:06 GMT -5
With Colby and Sinjin's claimed results, I struggle to see how Swammi could be a threat to WOTB and worth a vote toDay, even with his not accepting recruitment.
There is slightly improbable chance that there's a traitor in the Pilgrims of the Dark, working against each of the other's win con - maybe by ensuring none of the others survive, the traitor wins? Who knows but I agree that a WOTB traitor makes more sense.
Colby, you have indicated that Cookies is not a member of WOTB but is non-hostile, is there another covenant or is she another Pilgrim?
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 11, 2014 6:19:00 GMT -5
With Colby and Sinjin's claimed results, I struggle to see how Swammi could be a threat to WOTB and worth a vote toDay, even with his not accepting recruitment. There is slightly improbable chance that there's a traitor in the Pilgrims of the Dark, working against each of the other's win con - maybe by ensuring none of the others survive, the traitor wins? Who knows but I agree that a WOTB traitor makes more sense. Colby, you have indicated that Cookies is not a member of WOTB but is non-hostile, is there another covenant or is she another Pilgrim? Night 1 You have investigated Cookies. She is a member of the Company of Champions Covenant, which is NOT HOSTILE to the Way of the Blue.
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Post by guiri on Sept 11, 2014 6:28:53 GMT -5
Night 1 You have investigated Cookies. She is a member of the Company of Champions Covenant, which is NOT HOSTILE to the Way of the Blue. Thanks, good to know. I wonder if a traitor to the Champions would make sense.
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 11, 2014 6:46:09 GMT -5
... She is a member of the Company of Champions Covenant, which is NOT HOSTILE to the Way of the Blue. Note that this is carefully worded to state the Covenant is not hostile, rather than the Player. I don't think Colby's investigations are useful in detecting a Traitor.
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 11, 2014 6:58:09 GMT -5
A traitor to one's own non-hostile 3rd-party win-con would have what for win-con? Probably a win-con also non-hostile to Town, just hostile to ones' partners. It would seem an odd mechanic; and even if that were the case, I doubt storyteller would then emphasize it to the Pilgrims, whose win-con is rather uninteresting anyway.
Can we make side bets? I'd offer heavy odds that the Traitor in this Game will Investigate as "Way of the Blue", with no suggestion of hostility.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Sept 11, 2014 9:02:26 GMT -5
So, we have scum lurking in this pool 1. Mahaloth (Human) 2. Guiri (Human) 5. Dizzymrslizzy (Human) 6. Peekercpa (Human) 8. Sinjin (Human) 9. Suburban Plankton (HOLLOW) 10. Gnarlycharlie (Human) 12. Abstain (Human) Not sure whom is most likely to be scum... while i'm leaning towards accepting your claim, such absolute statements are really not necessarily true. assuming we have to look in this group (regardless of my presence in the list) is quite dangerous. by the way, does anyone know if there was a cop role in the past incarnation of this game? This doesn't surprise me as I have received and rejected TWO recruitment offers. At Dusk Day 2, I was invited to join the Way of the Blue. At Dawn Day 4, I was invited to join the Royal Rats. I rejected the request from Scum without thought, but I certainly thought of joining the WotB. Night 2 was when I pleaded for a Townie to send me a PM. At that time I was sitting on a pile of Souls I'd acquired in the Chameleon Lynch, and I thought it was in Town's interest for me to gift them to a fellow Townie to keep Scum from getting them by Killing me. (I thought, and still think, guiri is Town, but it made no sense to gift Souls to a Hollowed Player.) When no Townie could be bothered to waste a soapstone on me, I rejected the recruitment request. Why wouldn't you accept a WotB request if you're allying yourself with Town anyway? I mean, I see your explanation that you didn't get any PMs begging you to, but I still don't get it. Is a recruitment attempt not enough of a signal that you're wanted by WotB? I don't have any reason to disbelieve your covenant claim, based on the handshake info you've posted, but your decision to forgo joining WotB when given the opportunity does make me question your non-hostile claim. i don't see why a player HAS to accept recruitment to Town. playing different roles is fun. there's a certain challenge to playing 3rd party, especially survivor roles. Unvote: Guiri Unvote: Swammer
You admit to not joining town. That is anti town. again, anti-town doesn't mean scum. unfortunately Meeko, your idea of scum hunting appears to be voting those who vote for you. you have a penchant for thinking that those who vote for you must be scum because they know you're town. it is for this behavior that i am NOT voting for you. you seem to be behaving the way you usually do when you're town. With Colby and Sinjin's claimed results, I struggle to see how Swammi could be a threat to WOTB and worth a vote toDay, even with his not accepting recruitment. There is slightly improbable chance that there's a traitor in the Pilgrims of the Dark, working against each of the other's win con - maybe by ensuring none of the others survive, the traitor wins? Who knows but I agree that a WOTB traitor makes more sense. Colby, you have indicated that Cookies is not a member of WOTB but is non-hostile, is there another covenant or is she another Pilgrim? i doubt swammi is the traitor. it's not logical. even if he is or Cookies is, they are threats to THEIR covenants not town. it is for this reason i'm NOT voting for swammi. as such my best bet is SP. Vote: Suburban Plankton
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