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Post by Hal Briston on Feb 28, 2008 14:31:30 GMT -5
Wow. That's the worst vote I've ever seen, in all the games I've played in to date. Let me sum it up for you: I'm voting for Rugger because story said to, even though story's not voting for Rugger. Lame. Hm...you're right -- I didn't notice his unvote. Well, par for the course this time around...I suppose we're all allowed a bad game now and then. I generally hate this type of gameplay, but I've screwed up quite a bit and have become much more of a distraction then is at all warranted -- go ahead and make with the lynching. So let's see -- with me being lynched today, that would mean tomorrow morning will have three scum and three town at best, and three scum and one town at worst. Eesh... Ah well...hopefully town will find a way to pull it out. Good luck!
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Post by Santo Rugger on Feb 28, 2008 14:52:52 GMT -5
Hal, that's bullshit, and you know it. Regardless of anything, if you're town, you shouldn't be pulling the "poor me" card, but instead putting forth your thoughts of who's scum. That way, even if you do die Today, we'll know your thoughts were at least honest and you had good intentions.
I'm still very, very worried that Smurf and nesta haven't garnered anything but a passing suspicion, and that's only because they've posted much, much less than the rest of us. I wonder if something's going on with Smurf, though... I haven't heard hardly anything from him all game.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 28, 2008 14:55:45 GMT -5
At this point, I don't know what to do to reconcile the gaps and accusations swirling around. Hal keeps shooting himself in the foot and wielded the hammer that killed our SuperDoc, Pleo has garnered suspicion and smears but no one (that I am aware of) has stepped up to counter the tentatively accepted idea that he has implicitly claimed as a doc. Rugger has been on and off the vote block already toDay, and story seems to be slowly gathering trust from some and suspicion from others.
The most compelling case I can squeeze out of this mess is to switch my vote to Hal but the lurkers are frankly starting to piss me off, so my vote will be staying put for now.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 28, 2008 15:38:32 GMT -5
Hal, that's bullshit, and you know it. Regardless of anything, if you're town, you shouldn't be pulling the "poor me" card, but instead putting forth your thoughts of who's scum. That way, even if you do die Today, we'll know your thoughts were at least honest and you had good intentions. What SR said. I was going to ask you why you put them in your scum list. That helps. I read Smurf's posts through last night; in Day 2 he said he had had a high workload, but he was pretty quiet Yesterday too. He has recently been officially Poked though. Hopefully we'll see the results soon.
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Post by sachertorte on Feb 28, 2008 15:49:30 GMT -5
1 - Peasant Smurf (Cookies) 2 - Hal Briston (Santo Rugger, Pleonast) 1 - Santo Rugger (Hal Briston)
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Post by Santo Rugger on Feb 28, 2008 16:40:21 GMT -5
My First "Good" Idea:
I think, at this point, without a compelling case, we're going to run around in circles. Since there are three scum left, and six players who want to have scum lynched today, I think listing all players in the order you'd lynch them may prove fruitful. I'll go first:
Hal Smurf nesta Cookies Pleonast story
It looks like the five of us who have been most active are just going to vote for the five of us who have been most active. I think -requiring- everybody to do this will help us spot ulterior motives better than anything, since the scum need to lynch those they can't kill at night.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Feb 28, 2008 16:42:00 GMT -5
Oh, forgot to mention... that need thing kinda forces scum to be honest, otherwise they won't be able to lynch those they can't kill. Pretty neat, huh?
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 28, 2008 16:58:15 GMT -5
My First "Good" Idea: I think, at this point, without a compelling case, we're going to run around in circles. Since there are three scum left, and six players who want to have scum lynched today, I think listing all players in the order you'd lynch them may prove fruitful. I'll go first: Hal Smurf nesta Cookies Pleonast storyIt looks like the five of us who have been most active are just going to vote for the five of us who have been most active. I think -requiring- everybody to do this will help us spot ulterior motives better than anything, since the scum need to lynch those they can't kill at night. It would help f you listed all the active players other than you. So where am I in that list?
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Post by Santo Rugger on Feb 28, 2008 17:03:33 GMT -5
<snip>It would help f you listed all the active players other than you. So where am I in that list? Let's put you at the top, for being a smart ass. But seriously, I have exactly zero read on you. I need to do more composing and less submitting. The top 3 are three I think are scum, the bottom three, those I think are ton. It boggles my mind that I've been operating on the assumption that there are 7 remaining players all day! Here's my updated list: Hal Smurf nesta mhaye Cookies Pleonast storyCan we see yours, please, mhaye?
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 28, 2008 17:12:19 GMT -5
Later.
I said two days back (or so) that I wanted to reread a few people's posts. I've done one so far, and am partway through Day 1 reading the others. My opinions may change after I've read the rest of the posts.
After I've done Day 1, and thought about Hal's behaviour Today, I'll post my lists. My main reason for reserving judgement at this time is that I'm afraid my list might change by the time I've done with Day 1.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Feb 28, 2008 17:13:07 GMT -5
Hal Smurf nesta Cookies Pleonast story Good grief, you just scared the shit out of me. Since you didn't include yourself or mhaye on the list, when I first glanced at it, I thought - oh, my god, there are only six players left???Yeesh. That aside, this is a good idea, and I'll do it, too. But it'll have to wait a bit - I'm heading for home now. More later.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 28, 2008 17:29:22 GMT -5
The most accurate way to to represent my list is like a bell curve. If requested I will bite the bullet and stretch it into a linear list.
Smurf/Hal nesta/mhaye/Rugger story Pleo
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Post by Santo Rugger on Feb 28, 2008 17:41:05 GMT -5
Later. I said two days back (or so) that I wanted to reread a few people's posts. I've done one so far, and am partway through Day 1 reading the others. My opinions may change after I've read the rest of the posts. After I've done Day 1, and thought about Hal's behaviour Today, I'll post my lists. My main reason for reserving judgement at this time is that I'm afraid my list might change by the time I've done with Day 1. I think it would be a productive thought experiment to have you list what you think -now-, and then change it if necessary. Nobody will fault you for changing your mind, and it may just make your arguments from your rereads more significant if we knew your motivations and/or reasonings before/after your in depth reading.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 28, 2008 19:20:16 GMT -5
I've finished Day 1 now. I had been reading the day focussing on the posts of three players; Peasant Smurf, Nesta and Storyteller. I said earlier that these were my main foci; Peasant Smurf because his lurking was worrying me, and the other two at first because when I reviewed Day 1's voting pattern as it stood 24 hours from the deadline, I saw that Piratepete had no known scum voters. It seemed to me that it might be possible for one to hide there, so I went with them. I hesitated in giving my scum-order list for three reasons. - Firstly I had a large number of players that I could not decide between jockeying for second place, and simply could not split the ties.
- Secondly, the list was in serious flux because of Hal's recent posts and the reading I had done to that point (Storyteller had gone from a mid-list candidate to near the bottom, based on the first 150 posts or so of Day 1).
- Thirdly, the major nagging doubt I had about Storyteller centred on an exchange he and Peasant Smurf had in Day 1 and I wanted to evaluate that and see if Storyteller rose in suspicion.
Right now, my list would look like this. Peasant Smurf Hal Briston, Nesta Santo Rugger, DarkCookies Storyteller Pleonast At the time of your original request, you and Cookies ranked with Hal and Nesta. My suspicion of PS has actually risen after my reread, and there are some pointers towards Nesta which deserve closer study. My read on Hal fluctuates due to his behaviour Today. I can't reconcile D4.90 with either Village or Goon alignment right now, which is why I place him so high. I'll discuss my thinking in those areas in more detail. You will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon before I can cover all of them; I'm in the process of applying for a job, and the application closing date is noon tomorrow. Fortunately I can e-mail them the form. So I will not stay up much longer.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 28, 2008 20:11:42 GMT -5
Before I do retire, here's the Storyteller/PS clash. In D1.321, Storyteller attacked PS for "waffling and spotlight avoidance," citing three particular passages which (he claims) show PS trying to position himself to benefit from either result on an issue. PS responded to this discussion in D1.337. The way Storyteller phrased his posts was not the way I would; and frankly were probably responsible for some part of the nagging doubt I had that Story might, after all, be scum. I concluded after this read that Story, although he might have overstated the actual thought processes behind the posts, had nonetheless characterised them fairly. Mainly because of Pete's response to the comment about his thoughts on Piratepete. Why? Because PS admitted as much in his response. What he said was : I left a little tag on the endbecause I'm not saying Pete is definitely not scum, I have no idea, he may well be, but I'm saying that these two data points don't make him scum. That, put simply, is a claim that he added the words "in this case" to provide a get-out clause of exactly the type he was accused of including. It was sufficient to push PS to the top of my suspect league. I'll tackle the other two issues tomorrow, and probably vote then.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 28, 2008 22:18:48 GMT -5
My First "Good" Idea: I think, at this point, without a compelling case, we're going to run around in circles. Since there are three scum left, and six players who want to have scum lynched today, I think listing all players in the order you'd lynch them may prove fruitful. Yes, it is a good idea. I know I kept pushing it when I was scum to gain Townie cred. My list is currently Hal Smurf, Rugger ----- nesta, Mhaye, Cookies storyI'm willing to vote for anyone above the line.
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Post by nesta on Feb 28, 2008 22:45:10 GMT -5
Here's my updated list: Hal Smurf nesta mhaye Cookies Pleonast storyAh, so you weren't just being cynical with these: Heh. Wouldn't it be ironic if nesta, Smurf, and mhaye were the three remaining scum? Okay, calling it right now, three remaining scum: Hal, Smurf, nesta. I thought you were making a point about lack of participation, but it seems your lurker list has become your scum list. Hal and Smurf I'm not sure about, but you're wrong about me. It kind of bothers me that there's almost no suspicion of nesta, mhaye, or Peasant. Other than a couple jabs, they really haven't put forth any theories that may put their necks on the line. Almost like they're playing a game of self preservation or something. [underline mine] Have you not been reading any of my posts? The part I underlined is a gross mischaracterization of my participation in this game. I'll outline all the posts I've made if you like, but I would rather you read back through them for yourself. I've been expecting to be night-killed every Night due to calling out those I think are the most likely scum. True, my postcount is much lower than yours. My workload is such that I can't post during the day, and weekends have been busy, so I'm limited to two or three hours a night to dedicate to this game. That said, even if I could spend much more time at it my postcount would still probably be lower than yours. We have different play styles. I like to read back through the game over and over trying to get the "big picture" on players, rather than pick at each individual post as they come and voting on a whim. I also think all the fluff and drive-by accusations are more detrimental to catching scum than helpful because they lead to derailments and a poor signal to noise ratio, making it harder for players with play styles like mine to find the meat. To each their own, I suppose. I'm a little ashamed of my Day 2 participation, but the rest of the Days I've put my neck right on the line. I've done quite a bit more than a "couple of jabs." Also, for the record, based on my gut read I also disagree about this characterization of mhaye. Maybe I'm wrong, he's next on my re-read list so I'll have a better idea soon, but my read on him so far has been a little more town than scum because he seemed to be actually trying to figure out the big picture instead of just throwing out accusations and hiding behind other peoples' cases. Also also for the record, I think a Smurf lynch Today would be a very bad move, unless of course he comes in and does something scummy. He's been mod-poked, and if he doesn't step up his participation he will be mod-killed or subbed. Wasting a lynch on him based almost exclusively on his Day 1 play and then lack of play seems like a really stupid idea. Even if he's scum there are two others that we need to lynch. We should deal with his scumminess when and if we have to. Now, something I find very odd about your list. How can Pleo be near the bottom, when earlier Today you posted this: <snip>So far, your suspicion appears to rest entirely on the fact that Pleo appeared to not know the names of the scum against whom he would (hypothetically) be protecting, if he were a Doctor. <snip>Under your theory, wouldn't scum Pleonast devote the same effort to learning the names of his opponents as Doctor Pleonast would? <snip> I THINK PLEONAST IS SCUM. It doesn't rest on him not knowing the names of the scum, it rests on him not knowing HIS OWN FLIPPIN' NAME. He would have shared a name with Roosh, and he DIDN'T recognize that. The role PMs clearly show that each faction along with the minor Docs share a family name. I can't imagine this just getting glossed over, especially by one who is supposedly a Zhang. Seems that the name would ring a bell, at least. I THINK PLEONAST IS SCUM. It's obvious he's not going to defend himself against my charges, because a) if he's not, he can't, without losing his powers, and b) nobody else seems to think he is. I'm not doggedly pursuing him today, simply stating all my thoughts, like I wish other players would do a bit more often. Furthermore, your lambasting of me for mentioning that I'd vote for Pleo again, in passing, has only caused both you and I to post rehashed substantial content. I'm sure this was no mistake on your part. Have you changed your mind about him? Or are you just trying to please storyteller so he'll leave you alone? For someone so convinced earlier Today that Pleo is scum, this about face and the new and improved Rugger lurker scum list seems very odd to me.
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Post by nesta on Feb 28, 2008 22:56:37 GMT -5
My suspicion list:
Rugger Hal
Smurf* Cookies Pleo
storyteller mhaye
* Until he shows up or is subbed I don't think he would be a good choice for a lynch.
Those in the groupings are pretty much interchangeable.
Rugger is back at the top of my list due to his anyone-but-me campaign Today.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 29, 2008 12:44:02 GMT -5
Per usual, I won't be around much on the weekend, and the Day is going to end early on Monday, so today is basically it for me ToDay.
I've placed my vote and listed my suspicions. I'd like to see more from others, particularly those who haven't said much lately. Can we get any sort of consensus on who to lynch? Or are we going to let muddle through and let a late-night scum vote determine the result?
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Post by Santo Rugger on Feb 29, 2008 13:36:02 GMT -5
<snip> Have you changed your mind about him? Or are you just trying to please storyteller so he'll leave you alone? For someone so convinced earlier Today that Pleo is scum, this about face and the new and improved Rugger lurker scum list seems very odd to me. My current thinking is that story pretty much implicitly claimed, and asked me to back off of Pleo. He also said that if anybody had evidence that Pleo wasn't a doc, that they should speak up now, so those two are at the bottom of my list. I've said repeatedly I think Cookies is town. You, nesta, are in the next position up, so I don't really see what you're defending yourself from. You and mhaye ,whom I have about the same amount of read on as yourself (that is, basically none) could be swapped in position. That leaves Hal and Smurf in the top two spots. I wouldn't really consider Hal a lurker, and he's at the top of my list, so I don't see how you get off calling it a "lurker list". I was mostly being cynical with my calling out of the people that weren't posting, at a time when five of us were, but I think my list is pretty darn logical, if I must say so myself. Switch yourself and mhaye if it makes you feel any better.
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Post by nesta on Feb 29, 2008 13:45:07 GMT -5
You, nesta, are in the next position up, so I don't really see what you're defending yourself from. You said I was scum without giving any reason I could see other than lack of participation. Being called scum for no reason irks me, probably more than it should. And because I can't make up my mind about you, I'm going to: Vote Hal
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Post by Santo Rugger on Feb 29, 2008 14:11:36 GMT -5
You, nesta, are in the next position up, so I don't really see what you're defending yourself from. You said I was scum without giving any reason I could see other than lack of participation. Being called scum for no reason irks me, probably more than it should.<snip> You're third or forth on my list, and who knows what'll happen between now and the morning. Don't take it so hard, out of 8 players left, minus myself and the two docs, that leaves three out of five, or 60% chance of getting scum with a pseudo random lynch, so even if I were specifically calling you out as scum, odds are I'd be right. It looks like Hal is at the top of everybody's list, and I plan on voting for him, but I want to have time for everybody to post their lists so when there are dead townies in the Morning we can check out their lists. Oh, and I seriously have No Idea what you mean by the "anybody but me" campaign... I'm just trying to root out scum, I've defended accusations against me... isn't that what one is supposed to be doing?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Feb 29, 2008 14:37:45 GMT -5
<heavy sigh> This is by far the hardest game of Mafia of all time for the town. I have (surprise!) several thoughts on how to proceed, but none of them are particularly good. Nonetheless: (A) This is the bad news: With a few exceptions, we now have all the evidence we're ever going to get. The minute that Kat and then diggitcamara died, the remaining scum became indistinguishable from townies from this point forward. They no longer have anything to accomplish during the Day other than lynching one another. They will no longer be trying to protect their respective partners (as their partners are dead). They will no longer be trying to bandwagon townies. They will be earnestly and sincerely looking for scum tells, and their misperceptions will be honest mistakes rather than attempts at manipulation. They'll be trying to keep from being lynched, yes, but we'll all be doing that, because at this point in the game, a mislynch would be very bad. It is critically important that we recognize this, because it leads to the following: Our only hope is to look backward. I myself have been delinquent in doing this - in really re-reading past Days, when the scum did have motivations counter to our own - but I'm going to try again. Day One and Day Two, and to a slightly lesser extent Day Three, are where the answers lie (mostly; some future developments may yet assist us, but they will be difficult to identify). So that's where I'm headed - back to Day One, for a hard-core re-read. (B) Partly because of point A, Peasant Smurf is now a major issue for us. His participation on Days 1-3 was so modest that lynching him on the basis of it would be a pretty foolish move on our part. On the other hand, any participation he has now is - per point A - is unlikely to be illuminating. This may become academic if he's modkilled (I really doubt that there will be a sub this late in the game; it would really screw us up royally, scum and town alike). If he's not, though, it's something that will have to be addressed, somehow, toMorrow. (C) My suspicion list is useless. I'll give it, but the difference between positions 1-6 is so small as to be meaningless in terms of analysis - I believe that, ultimately, everyone who is not me or Pleonast is about equally likely to be scum. All the same, here's where I am, from most likely to be scum to least likely: 1 - Santo Rugger: He's been utterly reasonable toDay. He dropped his suspicion of Pleonast, quite reasonably, in response to my posts, as well as his suspicion of me. I find myself thinking of him as tremendously trustworthy, where yesterDay he made me nervous. What kind of player seems to be a touch scummy on Days 1-3, but suddenly seems to be a reasonable ally on Day 4? The kind whose goals have suddenly become aligned with my own, maybe. 2 - Cookies: I have no reason for this. I have found her to seem scummy the entire game, but have never seen any evidence to back that up... so I left it unmentioned. As far as contributions go, it's my most useless, because it's unsubstantiated, but we have reached the point in the game where everyone's cards need to be on the table. 3 - mhaye: Has studiously avoided taking stands, delayed promised analyses, and generally been a quiet diplomat who helps out but never ventures onto a limb or posts lynch-oriented analyses. Until toDay, when his substantive contribution volume increased noticeably. Because I perceive a demarcation between Days 3 and 4 in terms of likely scum goals and tactics (again, point A, above), a change in behavior covering this period of time is highly suspect. 4 - Hal Briston: His responses toDay have ameliorated my suspicion slightly. But only slightly. Points against him are as I have already outlined. 5 - nesta: He's here over Peasant Smurf for no real reason other than that Peasant Smurf has been a complete cypher all game long. 6 - Peasant Smurf: ?? 7 - Pleonast: Until someone gives me a reason to doubt him. 8 - storyteller0910: Innately trustworthy. That helped, didn't it?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 29, 2008 14:47:32 GMT -5
O great and floating dumpling: Has there been any response from Peasant Smurf to your prod?[/green]
If he's not going to to respond to the Mod, he's not going to respond to a single vote from me.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 29, 2008 14:48:13 GMT -5
whoops
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 29, 2008 15:01:09 GMT -5
(A) This is the bad news: With a few exceptions, we now have all the evidence we're ever going to get. The minute that Kat and then diggitcamara died, the remaining scum became indistinguishable from townies from this point forward. They no longer have anything to accomplish during the Day other than lynching one another. They will no longer be trying to protect their respective partners (as their partners are dead). They will no longer be trying to bandwagon townies. They will be earnestly and sincerely looking for scum tells, and their misperceptions will be honest mistakes rather than attempts at manipulation. They'll be trying to keep from being lynched, yes, but we'll all be doing that, because at this point in the game, a mislynch would be very bad. I came to that conclusion near the beginning of the game. A combination of 1) high death rate, 2) scum divided among multiple sides, 3) no investigation roles, and 4) large number of scum (30%!) the odds were never good for us. We pretty much have nothing to go on. Unlike a typical mafia game, where as the game advances, the scums' voting record will begin to separate them from the town, in this game the scums' voting becomes harder to distinguish. And, as you pointed out, they remaining scum have no more knowledge than the rest of us and the same motivations for lynching. The only behavioral difference we can hope to see now is too strong a sense of self-preservation. Townies, at least, still have a shot of winning if they die. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Thinking about this has given me an idea for later mafia game. 20 players total, 14 town and 3 teams of 2 scum each. No power roles. Each scum team gets one night kill. Here are the twists: 1) scum know the who all the other scum are (including teams), but all scum are immune to night kills. And, to prevent stalemate: 2) if when all town are dead there is more than one scum team alive, the town wins. Lurking scum thus defaults to a town win.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Feb 29, 2008 15:08:09 GMT -5
(A) This is the bad news: With a few exceptions, we now have all the evidence we're ever going to get. The minute that Kat and then diggitcamara died, the remaining scum became indistinguishable from townies from this point forward. They no longer have anything to accomplish during the Day other than lynching one another. They will no longer be trying to protect their respective partners (as their partners are dead). They will no longer be trying to bandwagon townies. They will be earnestly and sincerely looking for scum tells, and their misperceptions will be honest mistakes rather than attempts at manipulation. They'll be trying to keep from being lynched, yes, but we'll all be doing that, because at this point in the game, a mislynch would be very bad. <snip> Unlike a typical mafia game, where as the game advances, the scums' voting record will begin to separate them from the town, in this game the scums' voting becomes harder to distinguish. And, as you pointed out, they remaining scum have no more knowledge than the rest of us and the same motivations for lynching. The only behavioral difference we can hope to see now is too strong a sense of self-preservation. Townies, at least, still have a shot of winning if they die. Sorry, story and Pleo, but this is just wrong, wrong, wrong! Scum are not going to be able to night kill the other two scum, so they're going to have to get the other two scum lynched! They're going to lead us right to the other scum. It's not just self preservation, but they'll be actively pursuing scum with greater knowledge than either of you or I have, because there's a high chance that they're going to find the other scum tonight. And if their kill is blocked by either of you two, and they pursue either of you, then we'll lynch them, instead. Keep your chins up, I think Tomorrow is going to be the most interesting day yet!
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Post by storyteller0910 on Feb 29, 2008 15:45:08 GMT -5
I just re-read every single thing that has happened in this game since Day One. I have nothing more now than I did then. Yeesh.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 29, 2008 16:05:52 GMT -5
Ah, good point, Rugger. Scum gain info with a blocked kill. I'm not sure we'll have a chance to use it against them, though.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 29, 2008 16:11:10 GMT -5
<snip> Unlike a typical mafia game, where as the game advances, the scums' voting record will begin to separate them from the town, in this game the scums' voting becomes harder to distinguish. And, as you pointed out, they remaining scum have no more knowledge than the rest of us and the same motivations for lynching. The only behavioral difference we can hope to see now is too strong a sense of self-preservation. Townies, at least, still have a shot of winning if they die. Sorry, story and Pleo, but this is just wrong, wrong, wrong! Scum are not going to be able to night kill the other two scum, so they're going to have to get the other two scum lynched! They're going to lead us right to the other scum. It's not just self preservation, but they'll be actively pursuing scum with greater knowledge than either of you or I have, because there's a high chance that they're going to find the other scum tonight. And if their kill is blocked by either of you two, and they pursue either of you, then we'll lynch them, instead. Keep your chins up, I think Tomorrow is going to be the most interesting day yet! This is one of the reasons why Rugger occupies a spot in the middle of my bell curve. I realize that he may be thinking more about Tomorrow, or on into the end game, but I certainly haven't sensed any one leading anything anywhere against anyone toDay. What we do seem to have is a handful of people willing to vote for Hal, but not being particularly enthusiastic or confident about it, and I say that as one of those people. It is the implications of the flip side of Rugger's statement that I don't necessarily like. If we actually succeed in lynching scum for the first time in the game, which I want to remind everyone is the only way that they can be killed (aside from modkill), then I fear that Rugger's point of view will result in witch-hunting in a scum-killing majority. A majority, I believe, will be rich with innocents. So my question to you, Rugger, is how do you propose accurately sifting out the scum from the peasants and docs in such a scenario?
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