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Day One
May 25, 2008 23:04:21 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on May 25, 2008 23:04:21 GMT -5
Day OneDawn broke over the distant horizon. Slowly, each of the survivors woke and began to stumble out into the streets of their new town. Soon, all had congregated together in the middle of town as the father had instructed them he would be there in the morning to talk. Everyone anxiously awaited the arrival of Father Redford, the man that had brought them all together. Nervous chatter was tossed among the survivors, who were barely starting to get acquainted with each other. Talk of the previous day's events and conspiracies as to what had caused it were at the forefront of conversation. As the minutes ticked by, people started to wonder aloud where Father Redford was. "Maybe he's a late sleeper," somebody joked. After an hour had passed, the survivors began to get hungry and really were wondering what was taking the father so long. "Let's go to his place and wake him up!" With a general consensus, the group of survivors moved towards the house the father had set up for his own. "Guys...what's that in the street?" "Why is his door open? Is...is that blood?" "Oh...oh no...." Several people broke away from the group to retch and dry heave as the gooey pile in the middle of the street was identified. A few of the braver ones cautiously went into Father Redford's home, following the trail of blood into his study. What they saw made them draw back in horror. The trail of smeared blood on the floor led right to the father's body, which was slumped against the far wall. His stomach was ripped open and it was fairly obvious that the parts in the street formerly belonged to him. On the wall above him, one word was written in blood. DEMONS[/color] Underneath the word was a sloppily drawn arrow that seemed to point towards the desk that was in the room. It looked like the father had made it halfway from the arrow to the desk before taking his last breath. One of the group investigated the desk, and within it found a softcover book that was filled with pages of notes and drawings. "What is it?" "It's...it's some sort of paranormal journal. There's all kinds of notes in here about things like demons, witches, wraiths..." "But they aren't real...are they?" "I didn't think so. But you saw what happened yesterday...." The small group went back outside and informed the rest of the survivors about the fate of the father. A few of the survivors burst into tears at the news. "Who would kill him? Why?! We're the last survivors of that horrible..." "Well...he kind of left us a note..." The writing on the wall and the book was shown to everyone. Disbelief was in the eyes of everybody in the crowd until they were reminded of the strange and unbelievable occurrences of the previous days. "So what? Was Father Redford secretly Buffy the Vampire Slayer?" "It looks like it. There's all sorts of shit in here." "Well, what does it say about demons? That's what the father thinks killed him, right?" After shuffling through different pages of the journal, the entry on demons was found. "There are two types of demons. The first kind of demon is tangible, and can take the form of a human. They look the same as a human and there are no distinguishable marks on them. Not even holy water affects them. However, upon death there are two visible characteristics that happen to their body. One, their eyes will turn completely black. Two, their skin will change to a blueish tint almost immediately and will decompose much faster than a human body normally would. The second type of demon is in corporeal form. They cannot take the form of a human, but they can possess human bodies and control them. These demons will respond to holy water being cast on their bodies, but only a full exorcism can remove them completely from a human body. If the exorcism is done correctly, however, the body will not be destroyed and the human spirit inside will be able to retake the body and become fully human again, as long as it was living when the demon possessed it." "Well then, let's spritz everybody with holy water!" "Then what? None of us know how to do an exorcism!" "Do we even know how to create holy water?" "....just say some Bible juju over it?" After minutes of discussion, it was discovered that neither the instructions to make holy water nor how to conduct a proper exorcism were in the father's journal. Apparently it was too rudimentary knowledge for the father to record it, which left the survivors at square one. "So what do we do? Just kill people and see if they turn up demons?" "We just survived the end of the world! I don't want to die now!" "Maybe you're a demon then! Kill her!" "NO!" "If there are demons, why haven't they just killed us already?" "Guys..." "This is unreal! I'm not going to be a part of a lynch mob!" "Who says we have to lynch people? How do you kill a demon anyway?" "Guys....." "It says in the book there's lots of ways! Decapitation, silver to the heart, silver to the brain..." "Is there any silver in this town?" "We're NOT GOING TO KILL PEOPLE!" "GUYS!" Everybody quieted and turned to the person who had yelled. "I think you should come see this." The group of survivors walked down the road aways before coming to a halt. At the edge of town the road just...stopped. There was just nothing beyond it but a weird mix of sky and darkness, as if the entire world beyond the town had turned into a Magic Eye painting. "What the...." After a quick scouting of the rest of the town, it was discovered the entire town was surrounded and seemingly cut off from the rest of the land that had surely been there when they had went to bed. A vote was held, and it was unanimously agreed something strange was going on and something had to be done about it. Since they were cut off from the rest of the world, it was decided amongst all the survivors that each day they would try to root out who was human and who didn't belong in Last Bastion. At the end of each day, they would kill one person, whoever had the majority of suspicion on them, and hopefully they would rid the town of whatever was plaguing it. And it would start today. ------------ Day 1 begins now. The Day will end on Saturday at 8 PM EST, or 24 hours after a majority has been reached. Make sure you have read the Rules thread already. The vanilla town PM will be posted publicly momentarily. If you have any questions about anything, feel free to PM me and I'll answer them as quickly as possible. Also, if anybody is interested in keeping a "journal" of your thoughts as the game progresses, feel free to PM me and I will post your thought at the spoiler board for everyone to read at the end of the game. That's all I can think of! Have fun!
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RoOsh
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Day One
May 25, 2008 23:21:31 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 25, 2008 23:21:31 GMT -5
Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue
Aight, I died over in the other game so this one's gonna have to get my full attention looks like!
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Day One
May 25, 2008 23:58:39 GMT -5
Post by Greedy Smurf on May 25, 2008 23:58:39 GMT -5
And we're off. ;D So, closed set up, we don't really know squat yet. But based upon 25 players, all else being equal, we're probably looking at somewhere between 4-6 scum. That number will obviously be influenced by what (if any) power roles we have. And if we have any individuals (PFK's if you will ) in the mix. I think this setting would be perfect for at least a survivor role, tres appropiate.
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Day One
May 25, 2008 23:59:29 GMT -5
Post by Greedy Smurf on May 25, 2008 23:59:29 GMT -5
Whoops - and I still need to change my avatar.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 8:51:31 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on May 26, 2008 8:51:31 GMT -5
Aight, I died over in the other game so this one's gonna have to get my full attention looks like! Awesome. And, of course, Roosh is feeling doubly challenged by the pace of the Batman game and what was said in the signup thread. Just so you all know, I'm a working man now so my participation during work days should decrease somewhat. Especially if Roosh decides to give this game his "full attention".
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Day One
May 26, 2008 9:32:42 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on May 26, 2008 9:32:42 GMT -5
And if we have any individuals (PFK's if you will ) in the mix. I think this setting would be perfect for at least a survivor role, tres appropiate. I know that I've said this before, but in a closed game, anything can happen. Until we start getting hard information, it's difficult to make any kind of guess as to what we're up against. That being said, is anyone else struck by the disparity between our win condition and the opening flavour for toDay? We win when "All evil entities are dead." The opening flavour, on the other hand, is pretty clear that we're up against Demons here. What gives?
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Hockey Monkey!
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 10:01:12 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on May 26, 2008 10:01:12 GMT -5
Hi all. Busy day here at work. I'll be able to start participating more tomorrow.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 10:03:26 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on May 26, 2008 10:03:26 GMT -5
I think this setting would be perfect for at least a survivor role, tres appropiate. I hope not, just for the sake of clarity. The vanilla PM identifies the town role name as "Survivor". Makes me figure you didn't get that PM, btw.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 10:11:02 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on May 26, 2008 10:11:02 GMT -5
That being said, is anyone else struck by the disparity between our win condition and the opening flavour for toDay? We win when "All evil entities are dead." The opening flavour, on the other hand, is pretty clear that we're up against Demons here. What gives? Probably just means the two types of demons. We have to kill the "Type 1" demons (scum) the old fashioned way, and we have to kill the "Type 2"s (the posessed) by spritzing the victims with holy water, thereby killing the demon inside. One or two secret types could certainly be out there, but I don't think it's a guarantee. The two types mentioned could wind up being "all evil entities".
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Day One
May 26, 2008 12:43:28 GMT -5
Post by tdpatriots12 on May 26, 2008 12:43:28 GMT -5
Well, the color made clear that as a group we don't have access to holy water.
In that same respect, the color also mentions exorcisms.
I think it's likely there are roles in this game that have access to those abilities, otherwise why bring any of it up at all unless it's simply a case of misdirection?
If I had to venture a guess, I'd say the holy water implies a cop, but one only useful against certain scum (corporeal). The fact that there is a Scum Type 1 out there though means a cop that relies on holy water-based investigations won't be terribly effective at confirming townies. If he gets no result, all it means is that his target isn't Scum Type 2. So even though holy water sounds like a cop ability, I'm not sure how well it fits into the color.
I'm not quite sure what to make of this. Does the exorcism kill the demon or make him switch sides?
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Day One
May 26, 2008 13:23:55 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 26, 2008 13:23:55 GMT -5
I'm not quite sure what to make of this. Does the exorcism kill the demon or make him switch sides? Looks like recruitment to me, and I think we're dealing with at least two different groups of baddies (corporeal/noncorporeal), who may or may not have communication with eachother. Something to think about as we look at motivation. Anybody wanna talk Day One lynch strategy? Random? Lynch lurkers? Barring any grevious slips, it's kinda hard to pick a "scummiest" player... /oog - I'll be making most posts during the evening, but I'll try and keep up other times.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 13:37:17 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on May 26, 2008 13:37:17 GMT -5
I agree that Atarus brought up "Type 2" demons for a reason. My hypothesis is that one of our power roles is a Priest. The Priest can sprinkle holy water on one person per Night to see if he's a Type 2. The Priest can also lead an exorcism somehow -- it'd probably out him as the Priest, but might end up being a reverse recruitment type of thing. Balancing that would be tricky, though: one option would be to have the Type 2 demons not knowing who the other demons are(which would necessitate there being very few of them, which would make the hypothetical Priest role of limited utility). Another thought that I had was subbing in a new player to play the new human's role, which would solve the normal problems with recruitment, too. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed to me that Atarus was a bit anxious for subs.
KidVermicious makes an interesting point. Maybe there is a recruitment mechanism, but an exorcism can reverse the recruitment? Did atarus ever rule our recruitment? I was under the impression that he had, but I can't find any post he made that did rule out recruitment.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 13:43:26 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 26, 2008 13:43:26 GMT -5
Or anti-recruitment ... they can't actually recruit, themselves, but since all they're doing is "possessing", then with the right actions on our part we "exorcise" and they turn town. Don't think I've ever seen a game where the Town could recruit and the baddies couldn't, so I could be wrong. Just thinking out loud.
Also, if we're right, "exorcism" is likely to be somebodies special ability.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 14:24:36 GMT -5
Post by tdpatriots12 on May 26, 2008 14:24:36 GMT -5
I agree that Atarus brought up "Type 2" demons for a reason. My hypothesis is that one of our power roles is a Priest. The Priest can sprinkle holy water on one person per Night to see if he's a Type 2. The Priest can also lead an exorcism somehow -- it'd probably out him as the Priest, but might end up being a reverse recruitment type of thing. Balancing that would be tricky, though <snip> I wouldn't bet that one role has both the holy water and exorcism ability, I mean, it might make sense color-wise for one role to do both (such as a Priest, as you say), but what if that guy gets killed off early? Seems like too many eggs in one basket, from a game balance perspective. But until we know more about the setup... it's not something I can rule out. Don't think I've ever seen a game where the Town could recruit and the baddies couldn't, so I could be wrong. Just thinking out loud. Well, let's assume that that's the case for a moment. If it is, wouldn't that mean that the game is initially balanced in favor of the scum? Oh, and if a Scum Type 2 is successfully exorcised, does he become a townie or does the player effectively "die?" If it's the former, it's probable there's some mechanism preventing Scum Type 2 (S2?) players from just speaking up and saying, "Hey, I'm Scum Type 2, please townify me." Right? I have a gut feeling that either a key piece of information is missing (likely at this stage) or something's up with this Scum Type 1 and 2 stuff.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 16:53:07 GMT -5
Post by Rebel on May 26, 2008 16:53:07 GMT -5
Well if there is a second set of scum that can be converted into citizens, it really doesn’t make any sense that all the scum know each other. Does that mean two players will be taken out at night? Or that one type of scum does not get rid of humans at night?
Also I can’t even see the second type of scum even knowing each other (in the case they actually can be turned into a humans) because wouldn’t they just out their fellow scum once they turn citizen? Unless of course what someone said earlier about subs taking the place as the citizen. Though that’d just put a huge imprisonment (or whatever you call it here) target on their back because they’ll be a confirmed citizen. I guess this is one of those things we will have to wait and see what happens in the future when we have more information.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 17:19:48 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on May 26, 2008 17:19:48 GMT -5
How would a game with two groups of scum work though? Alternating night kills, or double night kills? That seems kind of odd to me.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 17:30:26 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 26, 2008 17:30:26 GMT -5
Yeah, and this is point against - in a game where town can be recruited, the motivation not to pipe up like that comes from the fact that town will lynch them. Motivation for scum type2, if "recruitable", is a little weirder... unless they don't know that the exorcism will flip them? I dunno. Not a bastard mod.
Regarding your former point, I wouldn't think it's an effective "death" (imprisonment?), or the color would have more to do with resurrection than exorcism. Again, dunno.
Italics mine. Reading this again, this makes me think mebbe scum type2 can recruit - and then we can recruit back? *shrug* Thats color, not rules...
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Day One
May 26, 2008 17:37:02 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on May 26, 2008 17:37:02 GMT -5
Double night-kills is the standard procedure. I've played in several games with more than one night-kill.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 17:38:17 GMT -5
Post by Kison on May 26, 2008 17:38:17 GMT -5
Yo!
Type 1 : looks like an investigation immune scum group(mafia). "no distinguishable marks," "not even holy water affects them."
Type 2 : Could be cult, or just a standard mafia group. Needs some kind of bonus over type one in order to compete. "holy water" looks like an investigative tool, and exorcism can undo the effects. Since the other group apparently is immune to that, then there must be more to the story with this one(or less to the other).
Rebel brings up a very good point about exorcism/playability. If the exorciseable scum know who their pals are, they'd out them immediately upon conversion.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 17:41:41 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 26, 2008 17:41:41 GMT -5
How would a game with two groups of scum work though? Alternating night kills, or double night kills? That seems kind of odd to me. There's nothing saying that our hypothetical type2's get to kill, tho - why have a faction that kills and recruits? Seems unnecessarily complicated.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 17:42:13 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on May 26, 2008 17:42:13 GMT -5
Oh, well I'm a forum based Mafia newbie. The only ones I played were the Spies series, which are very different.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 18:01:20 GMT -5
Post by Greedy Smurf on May 26, 2008 18:01:20 GMT -5
I think this setting would be perfect for at least a survivor role, tres appropiate. I hope not, just for the sake of clarity. The vanilla PM identifies the town role name as "Survivor". Makes me figure you didn't get that PM, btw. What, that publicly posted PM you mean? I apparently didn't get it because I use a generic mafia term to describe a role I think would be cool and appropiate in an "end of the world" setting/scenairo? And because the mod chose in this particular game to dub vanilla townies as "survivors" ?
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Day One
May 26, 2008 18:23:00 GMT -5
Post by ryjae on May 26, 2008 18:23:00 GMT -5
*oog* Happy Memorial Day US players /oog I don't want to lynch a town after they make a minor mistake in something that gets vulture picked to death. I'd like to hear some of the con's for day 1 true random lynching, and the pro's. In my limited experience the minor mistake lynch has ended with a townie dead so for day 1 I think I will try to avoid that lynch. Subject to change on how I feel the mistake was made of course. *And Survivor Smurf still no new avatar? *
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Day One
May 26, 2008 18:35:19 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on May 26, 2008 18:35:19 GMT -5
The problem with a random lynch is that we gain no useful information from it whatsoever, and we stand a very good chance at hitting a Townie. ToMorrow, we'd be in the same boat we're in toDay, except that we'd be down the lynch victim(likely Town) and likely the night-kill victim(overwhelmingly likely to be Town). It's been said before, but the essence of Mafia is that it pits a group with an informational advantage(the scum) against a group with a numerical advantage. It's our job to use our numeric advantage to gain information with which we can catch scum. Lynching randomly forfeits a part of our numerical advantage without gaining much information, so it's not a smart play.
Day One lynches rarely catch scum, but they do turn up a wealth of information.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 19:26:07 GMT -5
Post by Czech on May 26, 2008 19:26:07 GMT -5
If the exorcism is done correctly, however, the body will not be destroyed and the human spirit inside will be able to retake the body and become fully human again, as long as it was living when the demon possessed it. Maybe I'm just being overly paranoid--this is my first game--but is anyone else worried about the "as long as it was living" part? Does this imply that the Type 2s can possess living and dead humans, and that only the ones that were living (i.e., not lynched) can be revived with holy water? Did I miss something that would indicate otherwise?
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Day One
May 26, 2008 19:32:13 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on May 26, 2008 19:32:13 GMT -5
What I get out of that is that if a dead body gets possessed and we perform an exorcism, then the player is killed instead of re-joining the Town.
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Day One
May 26, 2008 19:55:12 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 26, 2008 19:55:12 GMT -5
But if we know they're dead, and alla sudden they start posting again... I can't see scum motivation to possess a dead player. Well, scratch that, I can if they can nightkill and possess in the same Night. I don't see where that goes, though... seems clunky. It would remove towny motivation to rat out his/her new teammates, if they're gonna die for good when exorcised/lynched... seems like there should be an easier way to achieve that mechanic, from a game design perspective. What does it mean that my Karma is 1 now? Does this have anything to do with the game?
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Day One
May 26, 2008 19:56:51 GMT -5
Post by Kison on May 26, 2008 19:56:51 GMT -5
Huh? Dead body gets killed?
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RoOsh
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Day One
May 26, 2008 20:03:20 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 26, 2008 20:03:20 GMT -5
Hey, hope everyone had a peaceful and happy Memorial Day today for our US players, and if you're an International player, well then may you just have enjoyed a "peaceful and happy day" Day as well. My thoughts: The first thing that really struck me: There's 25 Players in this game. That's ALOT of players. In Batman, we had 23 or so, and we managed to have A TON of fun with the roles and all. And Atarus IS a good friend of mine. I certainly talked to him about various rejected roles and ideas, and I consider him highly capable of being creative. That said... 25 players probably means we could be having some wierd shit going down. Greedy Smurf, you mentioned in your opening thoughts that you expected 4-6 scum. My thoughts- bump that number up a bit. I'd say maybe more like 8-12 ANTI-TOWN elements in the game, depending on what we've got as a Town to defend ourselves with. And I say Anti-Town, because I'm def. thinking in a game like this we've gotta have more than just "scum" vs. "Town" - there's probably a 3rd party group out there- or my personal opinion- maybe 2 groups of Mafioso out there trying to both secure a W. We'd have more information on that though w/ Day 2. But it's something i'll be keeping in mind. Especially, since I know that was the one area that Atarus bugged me about in our conversations on my Batman game. He was always curious about how I made the PFKs and the Scum group balanced, and always wanted to know more on that area- so it's metagamey, and basically "trying to out-guess the Mod" but since I LIVED with the Mod for a year, I'm thinking yeah, he's probably got more than one baddies in here. 25 players would easily allow double night kills, and multiple scum groups. The talk in the Flavor of 2 Types of Demons certainly makes me wonder- are the demons ALL working together, or maybe they've got different groups and posses? The first demon group seems to fit the flavor of a Scum group hiding amongst us townies, and how they'd blend in, though the Holy Water note was an interesting one. The 2nd group however, is the one that's a bit more interesting. It seems to imply a recruitment sort of power. They cannot take the form of a human, but they can possess human bodies and control them. These demons will respond to holy water being cast on their bodies, but only a full exorcism can remove them completely from a human body. If the exorcism is done correctly, however, the body will not be destroyed and the human spirit inside will be able to retake the body and become fully human again, as long as it was living when the demon possessed it.The thing is Atarus isn't an idiot. And there's a specific way this would have to work- It implies that these 2ndary Demons would have to either not know WHO turned them into demons (or else they could just break the game by selling out the entire scum team- leading to a similar debate on Vampirism in the other current game). OR they would have to have some other thing that we probably don't know about yet- causing them to NOT want to sell out their demonic buddies. Otherwise, I'd see this as an example of Vampire vs. Town vs. Wolf loyalties again, and I don't think Atarus would just copy the mechanism that are in another game like that. So I'm really curious as to why there are two types of demons, and if the two groups are perhaps opposed to each other in some way. The other thing I picked up on: The Book."It's...it's some sort of paranormal journal. There's all kinds of notes in here about things like demons, witches, wraiths..." "But they aren't real...are they?" That was the other thing that struck me. Mostly because of my experience writing Flavor as a Mod. I love stories, and I love Flavor- as a Moderator in Batman, almost every detail in there had some significance. I know we're up against Demons. I can read the writing on the wall. However, I DO think there are other evil things that go bump in the night besides just Demons, and that passage right there might be hinting at other things we may have to deal with. Witches were a force of good in a previous game, and Wraiths... :shrug: no clue as to what kookiness you could come up with for that sort of a role (SK anyone?). But I think we're gonna have to see what Day 2 brings us in terms of bodies, because we've got a lot of people, and that just screams two things to me: 1. We're not in for an ordinary game of just 1 night kill, 1 lynch probably. 2. We can expect to see some odd roles or alignments other than the standard "Scum" and "town" That's my thoughts on the intro Flavor.
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RoOsh
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Day One
May 26, 2008 20:08:33 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 26, 2008 20:08:33 GMT -5
Don't think I've ever seen a game where the Town could recruit and the baddies couldn't, so I could be wrong. Just thinking out loud. Well, I've seen examples of Town Recruitment- the way it's usually worked out is by Masons. You have a role of a single mason, and at night he has the ability to "recruit" another player into his Masonry via a handshake or something. The caveat is usually that Scum cannot join the mason group. But the role is weaker than a Cop's role, because You (as a Mod) balance it by having the player who gets asked to join usually have a CHOICE to join- they usually will get a message and have to choose yes or no. And if they refuse, then that's it, the Mason dude gets a No answer to his thing. However, scum would ALWAYS say No. So it's sort of a detective role in that it does increase suspicion towards a player. However, the way Mods counter this role too- is its EASILY the way a Cult works. A Cult will often do the same thing- just ask a player to join yes/no, and have the same caveat that scum can't join them. So that's why a player who recieves a message at night with the "yes/no" sort of answer has a difficult choice of WIFOM. Do they think they're being recruited by masons/townies, or is it a Cult/anti-town group that's going around doing this. But its possible to have recruitment as a pro-town mechanism, but it CAN just as easily be an anti-town mechanism too.
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