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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 9, 2008 2:02:04 GMT -5
Oh, I'm still curious to hear from you Story though- did my targeting you last night have ANY effect? Nope. I have heard nothing whatsoever regarding you.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 9, 2008 2:10:51 GMT -5
Story can I confirm you are definitely reponsible for the creation of both zombies currently walking around town? And further that you don't know what they do, or what role they serve. (And that is don't know as opposed to won't tell right?) 1. I can confirm that I am responsible for both zombies. I can further confirm that I will continue to (attempt to) produce one zombie each Day and one zombie each Night until something kills me. 2. I know exactly what the zombies do, and apologize if I have implied otherwise. I won't share it, though. There is no benefit to sharing it, other than "earning trust" from the Town. And frankly, if I'm scum, I can make up any old thing regarding the powers of the zombies, so I don't really see sharing as a benefit in that regard either. Why? For both you and hockey monkey, kindly explain what, exactly, about my claim you mistrust. I am a Necromancer, and I raise zombies. Other than the dubious proposition that a Necromancer = evil - a proposition for which you have zero evidence, and which is, in fact, dead (hee) wrong - what exactly "stinks to high heaven" about my claim? Because in the absence of, you know, evidence that there's anything scummy or bad about me, your respective baseless smudges against me are interesting.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 9, 2008 4:01:53 GMT -5
So of my vast and myriad knowledge of random things, I know about an obscure "horseman of the apocalypse" who delivers milk!. It's a very fast intuitive leap. I'm not seeing the intuition here. You're telling me that when somebody goes around offering to deliver milk, your first thought is of Ronnie Soak? I find that unlikely, myself. It's probably a function of how familiar you are with the Discworld. I didn't think of it until misterblockey asked if he'd ever been called Ronnie. Reading that provoked a moment - I should have thought of that but didn't.
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 9, 2008 7:21:48 GMT -5
1. I can confirm that I am responsible for both zombies. I can further confirm that I will continue to (attempt to) produce one zombie each Day and one zombie each Night until something kills me. 2. I know exactly what the zombies do, and apologize if I have implied otherwise. I won't share it, though. There is no benefit to sharing it, other than "earning trust" from the Town. And frankly, if I'm scum, I can make up any old thing regarding the powers of the zombies, so I don't really see sharing as a benefit in that regard either. Thanks for the clarifaction Story, I had gotten the impression you didn't know what they did. Why? For both you and hockey monkey, kindly explain what, exactly, about my claim you mistrust. I am a Necromancer, and I raise zombies. Other than the dubious proposition that a Necromancer = evil - a proposition for which you have zero evidence, and which is, in fact, dead (hee) wrong - what exactly "stinks to high heaven" about my claim? Because in the absence of, you know, evidence that there's anything scummy or bad about me, your respective baseless smudges against me are interesting. Maybe I put it badly that your claim stinks, which given what we've learnt thus far I can well believe a necromancer role. Rather, I am dubious about a necromancer being a townie. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I can all to easily see a Necromancer win condition of "when zombies outnumber townies" you win! Do I have evidence of that? Of course not. Does that thought mean I am suss of you? Hell yes, and does it spur me to want to read your posts to see if I can see any scumtells? Yes it does.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 9, 2008 8:37:48 GMT -5
My first question is, can any of the zombies speak? Hal? SDM? I'm guessing no, but it was worth a shot.
I don't trust storyteller. In fact, I'm going to Vote storyteller[/color]. He wants us to believe that zombies are good for the town? What? I am convinced he is leading us on. Here's the thing: Getting the town to believe that zombies are a good thing is just the stuff that storyteller is good at. He is extremely good at getting people to trust him. I suspect he carefully planned his "coming out" post yesterDay as a way of convincing the town that he is on our side, when he's actually PFK.
He was worried that we'd find out he had this ability through some investigation (he said so himself), and decided to put it out in the open ahead of time to gain credibility. I think he hoped the town would think he's being straight-forward, because why would he have spilled the beans without being provoked if he wasn't pro-town? I say he took a gamble to counteract the risk of being investigated. I mean, if a cop found out that his role was "Necromancer" what do you think the cop would assume? I know I'd assume SCUM.
I think what Smurf said is extremely likely: storyteller will win when the number of zombies exceeds the number of townies. And I don't like it. I am going to go search for other scum tells in storyteller's posts, but I doubt I will find any. He's too good at this game.
Now, on to Roosh. What the fuck! I don't think even you would come up with such a ridiculous role. I'm tempted to think we should lynch you, because the unknown is scary to me, but then again I would like to know what the hell abilities you have. I'm curious about the milk, but what if your win condition is that you need to deliver milk to a certain number of people? I'm not too happy with that. Of course, the milk might be something completely unnecessary and our bastard mod is having a good laugh at your expense. I'd be happier lynching story toDay and take a closer look at you toMorrow when you will share what you learned about yourself.
Oh, and atarus? You a sick bastard, but dammit you can design a fun-ass Mafia game!
--FCOD
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 9, 2008 8:57:22 GMT -5
Story can I confirm you are definitely reponsible for the creation of both zombies currently walking around town? And further that you don't know what they do, or what role they serve. (And that is don't know as opposed to won't tell right?) 1. I can confirm that I am responsible for both zombies. I can further confirm that I will continue to (attempt to) produce one zombie each Day and one zombie each Night until something kills me. 2. I know exactly what the zombies do, and apologize if I have implied otherwise. I won't share it, though. There is no benefit to sharing it, other than "earning trust" from the Town. And frankly, if I'm scum, I can make up any old thing regarding the powers of the zombies, so I don't really see sharing as a benefit in that regard either. Why? For both you and hockey monkey, kindly explain what, exactly, about my claim you mistrust. I am a Necromancer, and I raise zombies. Other than the dubious proposition that a Necromancer = evil - a proposition for which you have zero evidence, and which is, in fact, dead (hee) wrong - what exactly "stinks to high heaven" about my claim? Because in the absence of, you know, evidence that there's anything scummy or bad about me, your respective baseless smudges against me are interesting. Storyteller, I never said your claim stinks. I believe you are making zombies. I don't think it's dubious at all to think that someone making zombies who won't tell us what they do is someone I need more information from. What's dubious is you trying to turn it around and say you are being smudged. Everything I know about Necromancers is bad. You ask me to show you evidence that you are evil. I say, show me evidence that you are not. You say you need to be trusted to continue making your zombie army. I need just a little bit more than your word to do that.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 9, 2008 9:07:51 GMT -5
I don't trust storyteller. In fact, I'm going to Vote storyteller. He wants us to believe that zombies are good for the town? What? I am convinced he is leading us on. Here's the thing: Getting the town to believe that zombies are a good thing is just the stuff that storyteller is good at. He is extremely good at getting people to trust him. I suspect he carefully planned his "coming out" post yesterDay as a way of convincing the town that he is on our side, when he's actually PFK. He was worried that we'd find out he had this ability through some investigation (he said so himself), and decided to put it out in the open ahead of time to gain credibility. I think he hoped the town would think he's being straight-forward, because why would he have spilled the beans without being provoked if he wasn't pro-town? I say he took a gamble to counteract the risk of being investigated. I mean, if a cop found out that his role was "Necromancer" what do you think the cop would assume? I know I'd assume SCUM. I think what Smurf said is extremely likely: storyteller will win when the number of zombies exceeds the number of townies. And I don't like it. I am going to go search for other scum tells in storyteller's posts, but I doubt I will find any. He's too good at this game. Now, on to Roosh. What the fuck! I don't think even you would come up with such a ridiculous role. I'm tempted to think we should lynch you, because the unknown is scary to me, but then again I would like to know what the hell abilities you have. I'm curious about the milk, but what if your win condition is that you need to deliver milk to a certain number of people? I'm not too happy with that. Of course, the milk might be something completely unnecessary and our bastard mod is having a good laugh at your expense. I'd be happier lynching story toDay and take a closer look at you toMorrow when you will share what you learned about yourself. Oh, and atarus? You a sick bastard, but dammit you can design a fun-ass Mafia game! --FCOD The problem, of course, is that there is no answer to any of the above. It's speculation, based on literally nothing but my role name and your own notions as to its likely value. The arguments against me are unanswerable except by description of my powers, which would be a bad thing for the Town. Lynching me right now would be so profoundly pointless that I'm immensely suspicious of those who want to do it, especially my old pal FCoD. If I'm a third-party actor (which I'm not), and if I win when my zombies outnumber the Town, then I am nowhere even remotely near achieving this win condition. My number of zombies is open and obvious. So even if I am PFK, lynching me now instead of chasing a Demon is stupid, stupid, stupid; I am no threat at present, and the Demons are. It's doubly stupid, of course, because I'm not only on your side, I am potentially the single most powerful pro-Town role in the game. I know you can't know that, though. But pushing to lynch me, on Day Two, for fear of a purely speculative win condition that you've made up based on my role name and that I would be nowhere even close to achieving... That's the very definition of shooting for a manipulated outcome. Which is an interesting way to start the Day. ----------------------- All of which leads, actually, to the following, which will no doubt inflame the suspicions of those who have decided (or are pretending to have decided) that I am a third-party actor. I don't care. I am not PFK, but the opening color suggests that someone is, and it's worth discussing how to manage that fact early in the game. Batman was an interesting game. The Town lynched its enemies (scum or PFK) in all but one case in that game, and still ended up at lynch-or-lose. When I finally died, I bitched and moaned at some length in the spoiler threads about how unfair that was, and how imbalanced the game was, and how the Baddies (that game's Town) played so well, we should have won easily. Then I thought about it some more. The thing is, in games with third-party players, those third-party players serve a double role: (1) they threaten to win the game themselves, spoiling everyone else's win; but also, and importantly: (2) they serve as a key element in the central battle of the game: Town v. Scum. The thing that I didn't quite internalize before is this: as a Town, we have a certain number of mislynches with which to work. We don't know how many, but it's out there. It can be changed by the actions of certain power roles, but nonetheless. The key thing, the thing I didn't get, is that lynches of third-party players count as mislynches for the purposes of this calculation. One of the central battles of this game will be us trying to get the Demons to off the PFK for us, and the Demons trying to get us to lynch the PFK for them. The PFK have to die, but it is not to our advantage to lynch them unless we are comfortably ahead in the main game.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 9, 2008 9:14:08 GMT -5
Storyteller, I never said your claim stinks. I believe you are making zombies. I don't think it's dubious at all to think that someone making zombies who won't tell us what they do is someone I need more information from. Why? What information do you want? You want to know my powers? You see that as a pro-Town question? Bullshit. You know nothing about Necromancers in this world. KidVermicious was a "Warlock." In the same popular fiction from which you are drawing your baseless assumptions about my role, the word "Warlock" generally connotes evil magicians who get their powers from connections to demons (!) or other infernal creators. So using "everything you know about Necromancers" from outside this game is a crap basis on which to make guesses about anything within this game. OK. Tell me what will satisfy you, short of a power reveal. Because that, you're not getting. As I said before, if I'm lying I could make up any old bullshit anyway, so telling you my powers would be a waste of both of our times but would give the scum a way to plan around them.
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Post by Nanook on Jun 9, 2008 9:55:38 GMT -5
Rysto, I'm not sure what you're looking for out of me. In case you didn't notice, I unvoted and backed off Ryjae once the mod posted a clarification on the unable to vote part, which was the proximate cause of my suspicions of Ryjae. I get the feeling that you're trying to flush out a potential power role, which makes me wonder about where your loyalties lie. But I'm not willing to vote for you at this time.
I have no idea what to make of Roosh and Story. I can totally see a Amnesiac in this game, but a Milkman? So weird. I don't think Roosh is lying or a Demon though, simply because it's so over the top and bizarre that it's not something I can see a Demon trying to pull off.
With Story, I can't see that as being a Demon power. He's either town or PFK of some sort. If he is PFK, I cannot imagine atarus putting in a win condition that would trigger this early with this many people. Either way, I don't see any benefit to killing story Today. Later on possibly, but not Today.
The way things went down yesterday is interesting. Tdpats was far and away the likely lynch, and a few people were able to derail it. I find that fascinating and makes me think that there's something there that people are trying to hide. As such, and for the reasons I outlined Yesterday, I'm going to vote.
Vote TDpats[/color]
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 9, 2008 9:59:48 GMT -5
OK. Tell me what will satisfy you, short of a power reveal. Because that, you're not getting. As I said before, if I'm lying I could make up any old bullshit anyway, so telling you my powers would be a waste of both of our times but would give the scum a way to plan around them. So are you saying that there is no point in ever revealing unprovable powers, because it always can be a lie? How bout that it lets the rest of the town gage whether your powers are logical and consistent? You may be justified in keeping your powers secret, but don't argue there is no pro-town reason for wanting you to reveal your powers.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 9, 2008 10:07:15 GMT -5
Son of a bitch.
Unvote Storyteller.
When you're right, you're right. I still believe that you're PFK and that zombies are bad, but it makes more sense to look for a Demon today and deal with you later. I agree with Nanook that the lynch seemed to be going one way and things changed awfully quickly, but I'm not sure if it was scum trying to protect tdpats. Obviously, Roosh confused things a lot (what else is new) by claiming they might be lovers. It's possible that this confusion swayed the lynch onto our newest zombie. I am still suspicious of tdpatriots, but I'd like to hear more from Roosh about what he can do.
--FCOD
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 9, 2008 10:14:17 GMT -5
The way things went down yesterday is interesting. Tdpats was far and away the likely lynch, and a few people were able to derail it. I find that fascinating and makes me think that there's something there that people are trying to hide. As such, and for the reasons I outlined Yesterday, I'm going to vote. I didn't find a great concerted effort to keep TDPats alive. Roosh argued for it, and NAF provided a last minute vote based on those arguments, but that was it. Right now Hockey and Smurf are setting off my scumdar, though I'm not sure how well I can articulate why.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 9, 2008 10:22:38 GMT -5
To elaborate upon part of my concern with Hockey and Smurf
In Batman, as a scum, I did my best to push towards lynching PFKs. This moved the town's focus away from scum, and took out a mutual adversary.
I think it is unlikely Story is a type one d1mon. I can see type d1mons trying very hard to get Story lynched, since it helps them regardless of what Story's alignment is.
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Post by Nanook on Jun 9, 2008 10:22:39 GMT -5
I didn't find a great concerted effort to keep TDPats alive. Roosh argued for it, and NAF provided a last minute vote based on those arguments, but that was it. Right now Hockey and Smurf are setting off my scumdar, though I'm not sure how well I can articulate why. That's kinda my point. It didn't take a great concerted effort to save tdpats. It only took 3 people voting for SDM to lynch him. That's not to say those 3 are all demons, or even that any of them are. All it would take to save SDM was for the demons to vote for someone random or not vote at all. Admittedly, it's not the strongest of tells in and of itself, but scum tells so rarely are. It's the combination of that, plus the voting on Day 1, plus the other things that were covered yesterday, that leads me to vote the way I am.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 9, 2008 10:24:03 GMT -5
That's kinda my point. It didn't take a great concerted effort to save tdpats. It only took 3 people voting for SDM to lynch him. That's not to say those 3 are all demons, or even that any of them are. All it would take to save SDM was for the demons to vote for someone random or not vote at all. Admittedly, it's not the strongest of tells in and of itself, but scum tells so rarely are. It's the combination of that, plus the voting on Day 1, plus the other things that were covered yesterday, that leads me to vote the way I am. NAF, Roosh, Who was the third?
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Post by Nanook on Jun 9, 2008 10:28:33 GMT -5
NAF, Roosh, Who was the third? Tdpats, a self defense vote, which is a null tell.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 9, 2008 10:40:01 GMT -5
NAF, Roosh, Who was the third? Tdpats, a self defense vote, which is a null tell.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 9, 2008 10:42:19 GMT -5
Right now I'd like NAF (the third man) to go back over what made him go for stardragonman.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 9, 2008 10:42:49 GMT -5
sorry for short post gotta go to work
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 9, 2008 10:48:41 GMT -5
Hi, just checking in.
What? This game is going to give me a breakdown. Story, is there ANYTHING you can tell us about the zombies?
Something?
Throw us a bit of a bone, because right now all they are doing is adding to the list of things that are fucking inexplicable and that is, at least for me, making it infinitly fucking harder to figure out what is going on.
If you say there isn't, I suppose that is what we will have to believe, but I don't really know what to do with that. You clearly aren't a threat toDay but I don't know how long we can realistically let you live.
RoOsh. WTF man? Who was it that compaired this to the Chia Bingo Manager? This role doesn't make any sense if you are a regular survivor. I need to think about you a bit more.
I have a headache, I am going to go check on Cecilvania and make a ruling and give a vote count. I will be back.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 9, 2008 10:53:59 GMT -5
Right now I'd like NAF (the third man) to go back over what made him go for stardragonman. Ok, really quick. 1) story's cryptic post. Which in retrospect shouldn't have played into anything, but made me think that he was a cupid role after 2) Roosh claimed to be TD's lover. 3) Kat (I think) posted that TD dieing and taking Roosh with him was a good trade if Roosh was scum. 4) I realized that if Roosh wasn't scum that 2 townies dying would be much much worse. 5) Panic. I now feel like a tool since Roosh is saying he wasn't TD's lover (or he might be TD's lover but also a milkman, or whatever the fuck convoluted thing he is claiming). But 2 people I thought were most likely town were going to go down and one of them had the possibiliy of taking someone else with them. Lynching the one who was going to go down alone seemed like the safe choice.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 9, 2008 11:00:57 GMT -5
The way things went down yesterday is interesting. Tdpats was far and away the likely lynch, and a few people were able to derail it. I find that fascinating and makes me think that there's something there that people are trying to hide. As such, and for the reasons I outlined Yesterday, I'm going to vote. I didn't find a great concerted effort to keep TDPats alive. Roosh argued for it, and NAF provided a last minute vote based on those arguments, but that was it. Right now Hockey and Smurf are setting off my scumdar, though I'm not sure how well I can articulate why. *sigh* I always come off as scummy. This is my 11th or 12th game, and I'm always town. (One day dammit, I'll get to be scum!) Storyteller asked for something yesterday. I am just trying to ascertain whether or not it was a request that should be granted. I'm more than a little bit perturbed that he isn't getting more scrutiny. If anybody else had waved a magic bag full of zombies around and said just trust me, I don't think they would be getting a pass. That said, I agree that if he is a PFK of some kind, that we can put off his lynch for a short time. But we can't be wasting protection on him when there could be someone else who needs it more, especially if he is PFK. If the scum want him dead, they can take care of him.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 9, 2008 11:27:26 GMT -5
OK, some of what's been said is fair enough. It's funny. In spite of how I lecture others, it can be very hard to step back from what you, yourself know to be true and see yourself as others see you. So I'll give you as much as I can, aware that some of this will help the scum. But I do think that it's very important that I am protected, if possible, on Night Two, so here's everything I can give:
I am a Necromancer.
I can raise any dead player, whether human or demon, to become a zombie. There is a failure rate associated with the attempt (I attempted to raise hockeyguy on Night One, and failed). I can do this once per Day, and once per Night.
The zombies grant me powers, or more specifically I can direct the zombies to perform tasks on my behalf at Night. If I do this, I cannot raise a zombie from the dead that Night. I'm not going to say what these tasks are, but I will say that their effectiveness is directly related to the number of zombies alive. Most tasks will cause the zombies that perform them to crumble into dust and be permanently lost.
Here's the key part: Each living zombie gives me a 20% immunity to nightkills, additive. Right now, with two zombies alive, I have a 40% chance of surviving a Night kill attempt, and when I add a third zombie at Dusk, the chance goes up to 60%. If I can persuade whoever I need to persuade to protect me toNight, then I will raise a fourth zombie toNight, and a fifth toMorrow. At that point, I will have total immunity to Night kills until I use a portion of my zombie army to carry out a task.
OK? That's my good faith effort to throw out a bone. I probably have revealed too much, but it's a gamble I think I have to take to keep the Town focused on Demon hunting and not picking apart my unusual talent.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 9, 2008 11:53:52 GMT -5
This doesn't make me feel any better about you.
--FCOD
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 9, 2008 11:54:38 GMT -5
This doesn't make me feel any better about you. --FCOD Then I submit that you made up your mind long before I posted. Have fun with that.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 9, 2008 11:56:31 GMT -5
Thank you storyteller. I appreciate that you stepped outside your perspective for a moment and saw how it was looking to the rest of us.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 9, 2008 11:59:15 GMT -5
This doesn't make me feel any better about you. --FCOD Actually, I'm not going leave it at that. It is customary, in this game, to actually give reasons for one's suspicions and doubts. Would you care to share those? Or are you just tossing smudges into the wind and hoping they get picked up by someone who can supply your reasons for you?
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 9, 2008 12:00:18 GMT -5
This doesn't make me feel any better about you. --FCOD It doesn't give me warm fuzzies either, but it seems we have some time to deal with it.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 9, 2008 12:02:12 GMT -5
This doesn't make me feel any better about you. --FCOD Then I submit that you made up your mind long before I posted. Have fun with that. That's ridiculous. Have fun with what? The fact that I'm not naive enough to believe everything you say because you said so? There's nothing you can say to convince me that you're pro-town as long as there is a reasonable explanation that could go either way. I believe your role has all the abilities you described, but I don't necessarily believe that you are pro-town like you say you are. Where is the validation of your claim? Yes, you can make zombies. How can we, the town, be sure you aren't going to use them for your own PFK purposes? We can't until you are dead or we see zombies performing pro-town actions. --FCOD
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 9, 2008 12:08:15 GMT -5
The PFK have to die, but it is not to our advantage to lynch them unless we are comfortably ahead in the main game. Here's my question- You keep saying you are Pro-Town, but then you present also a good argument via the Batman Game, for reasoning to keep the PFKs' alive. Could I ask you (even though i know you could lie)- are you ProTown or PFK? *Actually, on further thought, I just realized- it's in your best interest to say pro-town, because if you say anythinig else, as the Game goes on - you'd become a bigger target for a lynch each passing Day* So instead: Storyteller, can I interest you in a bottle of Ice cold refreshing Milk?
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