Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 19, 2008 10:37:30 GMT -5
Hello everyone, just about to get caught up. And I see I have five votes on me, and with just a quick skim thus far on the last page, it looks like they're all very poorly reasoned with, what I can tell, to be a "lynch the lurker" approach. Interesting... I'll see what else I can suss out as I read. Lynch the lurker isn't a poor reason at this point. This is the fourth day that you've swooped in with only hours to go and done a data dump. You aren't contributing in a meaningful way to the discussion. You could be scum, you could be town, you could be PFK...we have nothing to go on but your actions in this came which are decidedly anti-town. I haven't placed my vote yet, but I've been contemplating all morning whether or not to vote for you. If it looked like you would be mod-killed, I would have voted for you so we would have only had one loss for the Day. I'm still pondering though.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 19, 2008 10:38:25 GMT -5
The only people that information will be useful to are the demons. Sigh. Once again, as a town our main problem is we lack information. More information, all else being equal, is virtually always useful to town. Knowing who you protected would help in evaluating the legitimacy of your claim. It would help show your thoughts on other people in this game. There might be pro-scum reasons that override the pro-town reasons, but there certainly are pro-town reasons. The deciding factor is not will an action help scum. The deciding factor must be whether an action will help scum more than it helps town. I have to say, I find this pressuring here very suspicious. You mention that the town is lacking information. This is true, but information, in and of itself, is not necessarily good. You also make a mention that the question is whether or not information is more helpful to town than scum is the deciding factor. I agree with this point, but you make no effort to explain why knowledge of her protections is more useful to town. If she's telling the truth, her protections give the scum an idea of who she may be protecting, and some idea to the pattern, which allows them to potentially avoid her targets, if they so choose. If she's lying, she can provide a reasonable list of targets that is completely indistinguishable from what a pro-town martyr would do. IOW, there's a potential small amount of useful information for the scum, and potentially zero information for the town. I believe Yesterday you provided an explanation that it will help you evaluate her role, but I don't see how you can potentially discern what a martyr would see as a good target, and who the scum would think the martyr would think is a good target. Considering you didn't even bother to give an explanation with this pressuring again Today, perhaps because it was torn apart Yesterday, I'm inclined to believe this is not pro-town motivated.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Jun 19, 2008 10:42:15 GMT -5
Hawkeye - Unless this game was designed like Batman, where lynching PFKs at all opportunities got the scum Godfather into the endgame.
Story - I don't have anything that points to Blam as a good town lynch. I personally think you'd be a better one, as long as he isn't being modkilled.
Mhaye - Why not?
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 19, 2008 10:48:48 GMT -5
Lynch the lurker isn't a poor reason at this point. This is the fourth day that you've swooped in with only hours to go and done a data dump. You aren't contributing in a meaningful way to the discussion. You could be scum, you could be town, you could be PFK...we have nothing to go on but your actions in this came which are decidedly anti-town. I haven't placed my vote yet, but I've been contemplating all morning whether or not to vote for you. If it looked like you would be mod-killed, I would have voted for you so we would have only had one loss for the Day. I'm still pondering though. The only time a "lynch the lurker" vote is potentially pro-town is when a mod-kill is a possibility and the information about the role is more useful than the removal of the role. In this case, I would argue that this is not the case. My play has not been anti-town. In fact, I have been playing my role as pro-town as I figure I can. I figure the issue here is with the timing associated with my posts. However, considering that I am not prepared to declare my role at this time, I will simply maintain that it is consistent with the strategy. However, each Day I have made my post-count minimum. And each Day I have provided my analysis. And yet, I'm still seeing people arguing that I may be mod-killed. I assure you, that unless we lose power at work AND at my home, or I incur some sort of serious injury requiring my hospitalization, I will not be mod-killed. The bottom line is, killing me because you don't have a read on me is a poor reason to do so. It is a pure luck of the draw without evidence, and none has been provided against me beyond the obvious correlation between my posting habit and the end of the Day. And, I have to ask, what, exactly, is scummy about such a correlation?
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Merestil Haye
FGM
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 19, 2008 10:53:41 GMT -5
Darth. I find it ironic that you, of all people, can ask this. The rule. It's a "two strikes and you're out" policy. BlaM's postcount record : Day 1, 11 posts. Day 2, 6 posts. Day 3, 11 posts. No strikes recorded against him. So if he made no more posts Today, he'd be issued his warning. There have only been three players who failed to make the 5-post minimum in the first three Days. Tragic (who missed Day 1 then dropped out), Czech (who dropped out on Day 3) and you. You are, in fact, the only player who would be modkilled if they fail to make the postcount minimum Today. (You were on 6 the last time I looked so you're safe Today).
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Jun 19, 2008 10:54:18 GMT -5
As Blam is well on his way to meeting the requirements, this is my last post before leaving.
I flat out don't trust zombies.
Unvote Blam Vote Story
And if the exorcist doesn't get to work soon, then the town may be that much smaller come dawn.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 19, 2008 10:54:40 GMT -5
Hawkeye - Unless this game was designed like Batman, where lynching PFKs at all opportunities got the scum Godfather into the endgame. Would having a malicious PFK at the end game been somehow better? We have to get rid of all evil entities. A loss to a PFK is the same to me as a loss to the demons.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Jun 19, 2008 10:57:34 GMT -5
Darth. I find it ironic that you, of all people, can ask this. The rule. It's a "two strikes and you're out" policy. BlaM's postcount record : Day 1, 11 posts. Day 2, 6 posts. Day 3, 11 posts. No strikes recorded against him. So if he made no more posts Today, he'd be issued his warning. There have only been three players who failed to make the 5-post minimum in the first three Days. Tragic (who missed Day 1 then dropped out), Czech (who dropped out on Day 3) and you. You are, in fact, the only player who would be modkilled if they fail to make the postcount minimum Today. (You were on 6 the last time I looked so you're safe Today). Color me surprised, I never got that PM. I have no idea how I missed that rule. But since it's obvious that he won't get mod killed within the next day or so, I will just implore him to not come in on the very last day.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 19, 2008 11:01:51 GMT -5
Lynch the lurker isn't a poor reason at this point. This is the fourth day that you've swooped in with only hours to go and done a data dump. You aren't contributing in a meaningful way to the discussion. You could be scum, you could be town, you could be PFK...we have nothing to go on but your actions in this came which are decidedly anti-town. I haven't placed my vote yet, but I've been contemplating all morning whether or not to vote for you. If it looked like you would be mod-killed, I would have voted for you so we would have only had one loss for the Day. I'm still pondering though. The only time a "lynch the lurker" vote is potentially pro-town is when a mod-kill is a possibility and the information about the role is more useful than the removal of the role. In this case, I would argue that this is not the case. My play has not been anti-town. In fact, I have been playing my role as pro-town as I figure I can. I figure the issue here is with the timing associated with my posts. However, considering that I am not prepared to declare my role at this time, I will simply maintain that it is consistent with the strategy. However, each Day I have made my post-count minimum. And each Day I have provided my analysis. And yet, I'm still seeing people arguing that I may be mod-killed. I assure you, that unless we lose power at work AND at my home, or I incur some sort of serious injury requiring my hospitalization, I will not be mod-killed. The bottom line is, killing me because you don't have a read on me is a poor reason to do so. It is a pure luck of the draw without evidence, and none has been provided against me beyond the obvious correlation between my posting habit and the end of the Day. And, I have to ask, what, exactly, is scummy about such a correlation? I am associating it with scummy because this is not your usual M.O. Quite frankly it's irritating, but that's not a good reason to vote for your lynch, which I have not. I'm just trying to convey to you the high level of irritation that I feel with your play this game. No I won't be voting for you, but I can understand why some would choose to do so. I'm much more concerned with Mr Blocky, Darth, Rysto and storyteller. Blocky - admitted PFK Rysto - admitted PFK Blocky thinks Rysto may be the same as him. Is it a ruse to get Rysto killed? Need more info. story - admitted Necromancer. I still can't wrap my head around how this is good for the town. Darth - I sure as hell would rather lynch you than have you modkilled with a different mislynch. How do you know Blam would be a mislynch? That slip along with the breadcrumb bruhaha is enough for me to vote. vote Darth Sensitive[/color]
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 19, 2008 11:20:06 GMT -5
Color me surprised, I never got that PM. I have no idea how I missed that rule. But since it's obvious that he won't get mod killed within the next day or so, I will just implore him to not come in on the very last day. it's possible that the policy was amended from "send a PM" to "Announce the warnings in the opening post of the next Night or Day thread." Yours is in the OP of Day 3. But that's the mechanism.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 19, 2008 11:37:30 GMT -5
To clarify:
My voting strategy isn't lynch the lurker, nor is it lynch the player I can't get a good read on. There are others that would certainly fit those requirements. I'm voting to lynch the player who is deliberately playing this game in a matter that is anti-town. I don't really see any town motivation to play the game in an anti-town matter, nor has Blaster attempted to provide one. Thus, my vote.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 19, 2008 11:39:51 GMT -5
story - admitted Necromancer. I still can't wrap my head around how this is good for the town. <sigh> Why not? Seriously, because this is driving me crazy. I have zombies. The zombies give me powers (it's a menu of powers, with more options if there are more zombies). Why is this so difficult to imagine (I can understand not believing it absolutely, but difficult even to wrap your head around? Why?)
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 19, 2008 11:48:30 GMT -5
story - admitted Necromancer. I still can't wrap my head around how this is good for the town. <sigh> Why not? Seriously, because this is driving me crazy. I have zombies. The zombies give me powers (it's a menu of powers, with more options if there are more zombies). Why is this so difficult to imagine (I can understand not believing it absolutely, but difficult even to wrap your head around? Why?) Maybe it's the lifetime of conditioning that zombies are bad, m'kay? Are these zombies more like Lazarus or more like "braaaaaiiins"?
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 19, 2008 11:53:55 GMT -5
story - admitted Necromancer. I still can't wrap my head around how this is good for the town. <sigh> Why not? Seriously, because this is driving me crazy. I have zombies. The zombies give me powers (it's a menu of powers, with more options if there are more zombies). Why is this so difficult to imagine (I can understand not believing it absolutely, but difficult even to wrap your head around? Why?) Well, for me the issue is less you having Zombies, and more your claim that your power far exceeds all other town members. That just doesn't make sense balance wise. It is generally bad game design to base one side's chances so much on one individual player. As a PFK it makes perfect sense though, as you need to be balanced against all other players. The other thing that bothers me is that you are spending far more time being offended that people are suspicious of you, then you are trying to catch scum. You are in little danger of being lynched today, most of the people suspicious of you aren't voting for you, and yet that is where your focus lies. You didn't vote yesterday and you haven't voted today. I have no idea of your feelings on almost everyone in this game. If you want to show me you are pro-town, then do something pro-town. You create demons. I think it is reasonable to be very suspicious of you. I put the burden on you to show me that my suspicions are misplaced.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 19, 2008 12:01:57 GMT -5
Hawkeyeop. If you want to show me you are pro-town, then do something pro-town. You create demons. I think it is reasonable to be very suspicious of you. I put the burden on you to show me that my suspicions are misplaced. No, Storyteller does not create Demons. If he did, he'd be speedlynched so fast he wouldn't have time to blink. Additionally, it's quite plain from his posts that what Storyteller is claiming is that his powers grow with the number of Zombies wandering around. I tend to believe that. What I am maintaining a healthy scepticism about is Storyteller's alignment. That I will keep an open mind on as I read the threads. Nevertheless, Storyteller, Hawkeyeop makes a good point here. It would be much easier to believe you if we had actual evidence that you were acting in a pro-Town fashion. We have, after all, just received a new demonstration at just how good you are at being bad.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 19, 2008 12:08:10 GMT -5
No, Storyteller does not create Demons. If he did, he'd be speedlynched so fast he wouldn't have time to blink.
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Post by Kison on Jun 19, 2008 12:19:26 GMT -5
You know what, I had nowhere to go at the beginning of the Day, as not only is there no new info, but TD, the person I felt most likely to be scum, is dead but with no reveal. I've been thinking, but not had much to post, and I've been seeing the argument against Blam, but not feeling it you know... I don't disagree with the argument, I just don't know if I'm willing to put a vote on it. (I'd vote Blam, but I can't shake the idea that Rysto might be distracting just to cause chaos.) *alarms sound*
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Post by Kison on Jun 19, 2008 12:25:30 GMT -5
Like I said in my last post if it were earlier in the game I would have no problem lynching BlaM right now because he is pissing me off. Whoa, there, buddy. What's your agenda? Lynch scum or lynch people who piss you off? Better think this one through carefully.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 19, 2008 12:29:06 GMT -5
You know what, I had nowhere to go at the beginning of the Day, as not only is there no new info, but TD, the person I felt most likely to be scum, is dead but with no reveal. I've been thinking, but not had much to post, and I've been seeing the argument against Blam, but not feeling it you know... I don't disagree with the argument, I just don't know if I'm willing to put a vote on it. (I'd vote Blam, but I can't shake the idea that Rysto might be distracting just to cause chaos.) *alarms sound* Care to elaborate on this? What is causing alarms to sound?
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Post by Kison on Jun 19, 2008 12:33:19 GMT -5
UnvoteVote : Darth SensitiveNot sure I want blam lynched just yet, as I said before, especially after some of the behavior I've been seeing regarding him. Lurking plain and simple != scum. Lurking opportunistically is scummy. I think Blam just doesn't give a damn. Might get replaced. We'll see. Voting DS because of what I said earlier and... I'm going to be off to work in about an hour. I'll do my best to give more input before then. But before I go, I'm going to: Vote BlamI think that lynching him is better than a modkill, which may be what we end up getting. This way, we only lose one person. If we can suss out scum as opposed to PFK, I definitely support that lynch, but with the current state of information available to the town, I don't think it's happening. False. Lynching whoever we suspect most of being scum is the best move. If Blam is modkilled then that is a bonus. Either everyone suspects him and thinks there's a good chance the modkill will nail scum, or he's unsuspected and we don't waste a lynch on him.
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Post by Kison on Jun 19, 2008 12:35:04 GMT -5
Care to elaborate on this? What is causing alarms to sound? Read both quotes and find the subtle inconsistency.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 19, 2008 12:36:04 GMT -5
Like I said in my last post if it were earlier in the game I would have no problem lynching BlaM right now because he is pissing me off. Whoa, there, buddy. What's your agenda? Lynch scum or lynch people who piss you off? Better think this one through carefully. 3rd time toDay my posts have been snipped to remove context. If you are town stop playing dirty, it isn't helping. Take a look at the whole post. It is a post advocating NOT lynching BlaM. His playstyle is annoying but at this point I am fairly sure he is town so I am willing to suck it up an deal. If it were EARLY in the game I would say that his playstyle is detrimental enough to warrent a lynch even if he is town. As it is not early in the game, I think we should lynch someone else. I even made a case against Blocky and voted for him. I am now leaving my vote on him becuase he is an admitted PFK. But, especially early in the game, not all townies deserve to live. Sorry, but it's true. I said a similar thing in the SDMB conspiracy game, but if it is early in the game and you are playing in such a way that will make it harder for town to figure out what the hell is going on in endgame, I want you killed even if you are on my team. Sorry, but I am tired of people getting away with playing the game badly because they are town. Kison, let it be known that I am not a huge fan of your playstyle either and would like you to start activly participating, and stop pulling bullshit like the above quote.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 19, 2008 12:37:32 GMT -5
Sure. I'm rereading Today, slowly.
But you have done what I was looking for with that - backed up the flagwaving with a more detailed position. So it can wait until I get to it.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 19, 2008 12:46:06 GMT -5
Nevertheless, Storyteller, Hawkeyeop makes a good point here. It would be much easier to believe you if we had actual evidence that you were acting in a pro-Town fashion. Fair enough. I don't know how to provide that evidence. So I'm going to step away from this whole line of questioning unless and until I find myself in significant danger of being lynched. When zombie #4 rises up, my chances of surviving a Night kill attempt go up to 80%, so I no longer want protection even if the protective roles were still inclined to give it to me. And hawk, to explain my own focus on myself: it is, perhaps, difficult to describe how frustrating it is to be in the position that I am in: capable of helping tremendously if I am trusted, incapable of earning that trust. It is not a productive thing, this frustration, but it is difficult to avoid. Nonetheless, the rest of my posts toDay will be about players other than myself. Fair?
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 19, 2008 12:50:40 GMT -5
Nonetheless, the rest of my posts toDay will be about players other than myself. Fair? Fair. In turn, unless something really unexpected happens, I won't vote for you today.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 19, 2008 12:52:09 GMT -5
Incidentally, if we do have an alignment Cop floating around with three Nights of investigation under his/her belt, I'd say he/she ought to give serious thought to sharing that information on the soon side. Only he/she can know for sure when it's worth claiming, but at a certain point the chances that you will be killed without sharing start to increase.
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Post by Nanook on Jun 19, 2008 14:30:46 GMT -5
There's only a couple hours left before the end of the Day isn't there? Fuck.
I will not be voting for MrBlockey Today. My reason for this is kinda game theory based. In wake of Batman there was a lot of talk about how the town lynched nearly perfectly and still came close to losing. I would suggest that town did not in fact lynch all that close to perfectly. I would argue that lynching perfectly requires more than just lynching the correct people, but lynching the correct people in the correct order. Unfortunately, this is a game of imperfect information, and therefore it is enarly or completely impossible to figure out the correct order. For example, the Dotchan lynch in Batman was an incorrect lynch. However, the town had no way to know that within the context of the game.
MrB almost certainly needs to die at some point, but I don't think that time is now. Story may or may not need to die at some point, there isn't enough information right now to say for certain right now. Darth certainly has some weird contradictions going on, but I hesitate to vote for him since he mentioned his footwear issue before Hal did, and Hal has since been confirmed as possessed.
More in a bit.
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Post by bufftabby on Jun 19, 2008 14:33:51 GMT -5
story: to answer your earlier question, no, neither unknown player was a mason.
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Post by Nanook on Jun 19, 2008 14:42:26 GMT -5
Looking back over things, I'm leaning towards voting for Rysto. He sure seemed like he was fishing for a role claim out of me earlier, and his hounding of MrB comes across as PIS. He made the leap to suspecting MrB of being a Horseman very quickly and intuitively, which makes me think he knew they existed in this game. It could be that he has some sort of role that allows him that knowledge, or it could be that he's a demon or Horseman himself. Right now, I'm leaning demon, but only slightly over Horseman.
Vote Rysto[/color]
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Post by Rysto on Jun 19, 2008 14:50:04 GMT -5
Looking back over things, I'm leaning towards voting for Rysto. He sure seemed like he was fishing for a role claim out of me earlier, Stop parroting this untruth. I never asked for a role claim from you. I voted for you partially because you (a) said soft-claiming was scummy, and (b) soft-claimed yourself. I wouldn't have had had an issue with your soft-claim if you weren't going around basing your vote on RyJae partially based on his soft-claim. WTF? Are you paying any attention at all? I have already said that I knew that there were Horsemen in the game.
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