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Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 19, 2008 14:54:18 GMT -5
You know what, I had nowhere to go at the beginning of the Day, as not only is there no new info, but TD, the person I felt most likely to be scum, is dead but with no reveal. I've been thinking, but not had much to post, and I've been seeing the argument against Blam, but not feeling it you know... I don't disagree with the argument, I just don't know if I'm willing to put a vote on it. (I'd vote Blam, but I can't shake the idea that Rysto might be distracting just to cause chaos.) *alarms sound* Way to snip and take things out of context Read the WHOLE POST (linked for reasons of space, ease of reading, and sanity.) Notice how during that post I move from how Rysto's really random really blatant stretch to accuse someone looks scummy to me. Then how I say the most rational scummy motivation to do that would be in order to distract from another lynch. What was the only lynch with momentum at that time? Blam's..... Ergo, now I'm suddenly suspicious of BLam, because someone's made a scummy looking move in an attempt to distract from his lynch. There is 0 inconsistency there. Finally I can reiterate my win condition can not kick in until the very very very endgame. I know there are trust issues in that, but it's true.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 19, 2008 14:54:33 GMT -5
I've just finished a reread of Today, and I'm uneasy.
Currently the lead candidate for lynching is Blaster Master, with three votes to the two for Darth Sensitive and Misterblockey.
Of those three, the “safe” lynch is probably Misterblockey. BlaM, although his playstyle this game is making it difficult to get a handle on him, doesn't have any other pointers to guilt that would make me want to lynch him, while Darth S has an implied claim of possession. Misterblockey, on the other hand, is a self-confessed Horseman of the Apocalypse; that is, he is Not A Survivor. The Survivors can't afford to neglect the Horsemen, but if we can isolate a Corporeal Demon Today it would be better.
I think I'll place my vote now to avoid problems later.
Vote Misterblockey.
That's the second time this game I've found myself trapped into voting tactically.
I'm going to do a bit more reading to see if I can turn up something better; ie pointers to an actual demon.
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Post by Nanook on Jun 19, 2008 15:07:05 GMT -5
WTF? Are you paying any attention at all? I have already said that I knew that there were Horsemen in the game. Bah, you're correct. This is what I get for signing up for three games at once. Too much overflow of one game to the next, I can't keep up with them all. I apologize for missing it. I'll have to see if I can find the time to look over the threads before the day ends, which is looking iffy since I'm having a problem with my work project. Unvote Rysto[/color]
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Post by Nanook on Jun 19, 2008 15:27:21 GMT -5
Ok I read back over the thread. 2 people pinged me more than others, Darth and Kison. I still would rather not vote for Darth at this time, due to the fact that he was claiming shoe issues before the confirmed possessed townie, but the way he's been ignoring questions from some people is worrisome.
I can't point to any one specific post, but the way he's been coming in and attacking while twisting things people say bothers me. I think he's more likely to be a demon than Darth, MrB or story at this point, so that's where I'm going to vote.
Vote Kison[/color]
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 19, 2008 15:31:25 GMT -5
I targeted Roosh the night he targeted you and the effect was his power, which even he doesn't know what it is rebounded on him. I think thats why he was told to deliver milk that Day. I'm only pretty sure, I'm not positive, as it could just be coincidence and him lying. I really don't understand this. Frankly, I am terribly suspicious of Roosh. His Byzantine and confusing role claim reminds me an awful lot of his equally bizarre, one-part-threatening-one-part-help-me-I'm-in-danger claim from my own Blade Runner game. (Seriously, anyone who was in that game, note the similarities between his fake claim in that game and his claim in the current game: in both, he claimed to be uncertain as to some aspect of his role. In both, he claimed to be in some potential danger (if he failed to deliver milk in this game; if he didn't get rid of his blinking ankle bracelet in the last). In both, his claim was confusing enough, and elaborate enough, to be the center of attention for quite some time. So maybe it's unfair, but it sure sounds like classic Roosh misdirection to me. Everyone else, though, seems to have, if not accepted this claim, sort of ignored it, so I wonder if there's something I'm missing. misterblockey, can you explain your reasons for trusting Roosh in a bit more detail? ----------- For the rest of our claimants: hockeymonkey and Nanook, frankly, could be lying or they could be telling the truth. buftabby is very likely telling the truth. If she's not, then she's either scum who was given the information that there are no Masons - which would have been massive unbalancing, I think - or she's scum who took a massive risk. Much as I don't like her reasoning in many cases, she remains on the "mostly trust" all by her lonesome. Darth appears to have gotten a lot of leeway for mentioning possession before Hal did. Which is fair, I guess. Of this group, he strikes me as the most scummy in behavior, but the claim mitigates against lynching him. However, if there is an Exorcist who has reason to believe that Darth is lying, PLEASE for the love of Pete tell us so. On balance, I am inclined to vote for one of the living nonclaimants: BLAM, pedescribe, hawkeyeop, Kat!, Kison, Mhaye, NAF, Rysto, or Smurf. I have explained why I don't think killing misterblockey is particularly wise at the moment, but it is even more so now that he is cooperating; keeping him alive for a while will work to our advantage, because if he does anything scummy and is seen doing it, he's dead, so he'll be inclined to work with us and hope to sneak in a victory. Of course, he could still be a Demon and faking it. But if he is, we'll find out sooner or later. More in a minute.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 19, 2008 15:41:42 GMT -5
Unofficial vote count:
Blaster Master (3): Roosh, hawkeyeop, pedescribe misterblockey (3): NAF1138, Rysto, Mhaye Darth Sensitive (2): hockey monkey, Kison Kison (1): Nanook hockeymonkey (1): bufftabby storyteller0910 (1): Darth Sensitive
An odd situation. I can see reasons to not vote for Darth, in spite of the fact that the is suspicious to me, and for misterblockey, in spite of the fact that he is certainly anti-Town of some stripe.
I don't have any particular reasons to vote for BLAM, and I don't have any particular reasons to not vote for him. Y'all, I'm very disappointed in my own play at this stage of the game. hawkeyeop is right; I've been way too focused on my own role and my own defense and I find myself at sea looking for a vote and with no real idea where to put it.
I'm going to try to read some more, and I'll place a vote between now and the deadline, but in any case I hereby resolve to stop sucking, and to start doing some actual post analysis soon. I call upon all Townies to take up the same task with me, or to take it up in my stead if I'm dead toMorrow morning, because right now, we're just not cutting it.
----
In the meanwhile, though, here's one more for the record. I am suspicious of NAF. I cannot substantiate it right now, but it strikes me that he's done a lot of exhorting others to play smart and well, while keeping his own nose out of the mess to a surprising degree. This perception may be mistaken, and I will retract it and apologize if it is, but the Day is nearing an end and what pitiful analysis I have to provide is even more useless if I leave it unsaid.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 19, 2008 15:47:57 GMT -5
In the meanwhile, though, here's one more for the record. I am suspicious of NAF. I cannot substantiate it right now, but it strikes me that he's done a lot of exhorting others to play smart and well, while keeping his own nose out of the mess to a surprising degree. This perception may be mistaken, and I will retract it and apologize if it is, but the Day is nearing an end and what pitiful analysis I have to provide is even more useless if I leave it unsaid. I would be worried if no one mentioned that my play has been lacking. You might notice that I am having a bit of trouble keeping up in the other game too. I bit off a tiny little bit more than I can chew, and end up not being able to spend the time on deep analysis that I want. I got a little done and came up with Blocky as being suspicious. Since he turned out to claim PFK I am a bit proud of that, but other than that you're mostly right. Also, like I said at the start of the game, I don't ever do as well when it is quiet. So much of how I play is based off interacting with other players, and there hasn't been much to interact with until the last 24 hours of the Day every Day.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 19, 2008 16:01:05 GMT -5
You know what, I'm going to go ahead and Vote Kison for that blatant smudge on me.
I will say this, despite my win condition I have been and will continue to play as town, I'm aware my reveal most likely means I'll lose, but I'd rather lose later than sooner.
If Kison wanted to say something against me he could have used my own admissions, but instead he chose to take one of my posts, pull out two points from either end of me elaborating a change in opinion, and then post them like I'd been inconsistent.
Seems scummy to me, and it just plain irks me.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 19, 2008 16:02:40 GMT -5
Sorry guys, duty called... finishing my catch-up. 2. BLaM- Hell, I called him out yesterDay on it, and he admitted it slightly for the previous days- the dude is lurking to a most heineous extent. The whole not checking in until the last day and then summerizing and voting really is HARD to effectively evaluate as a player. People need to start asking him the hard questions, and seeing if he shows up, because unless he's a goddamn confirmable role such as a Mason, I don't see how he can really justify that sort of playing style as being helpful to the town. It just generates suspicion yet it avoids it all the same, because people will remember his content posts, and they're always helpful, because they're a SUMMARY of ideas. -_- And it always allows him to escape from the drama of the Day simple because he'll always show up late to the party, so it's an easy and smart way to lurk, and I just don't like it. Big FOS to BlaM So me obviously not posting for the vast majority of the Day then catching up right at the end and getting called on it is a "smart way to lurk"? I don't follow this logic at all. The main reason for scum to lurk is to avoid drawing attention to themselves. This has not been the result of my behavior, as it will clearly draw attention to me. IMO, the smart way to lurk is to deliberately make either only a few spread out posts, ineffectual and easily forgotten posts, or most likely some combination of the behaviors. None of this describes my behavior, particularly the spread out part. Both my absence and presence have been well noticed. Again, even if you do want to qualify what that I've been lurking, you've still failed to establish that my lurking is necessarily scum motivated. As I've already said, my behavior is consistent with my strategy to play my role in a pro-town manner.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 19, 2008 16:21:19 GMT -5
On that note, I concur that BlaM needs to speak up. Vote : BlaM. Not sure I would lynch the guy for the lurking alone but I definitely support a pressure wagon. Mainly because I am having a hard time giving my own optimal participation due to the fast pace of this game. I can see this engulfing people not used to this. The logic here completely escapes me. You want to put pressure on me to "speak up" but you don't think you should lynch me for lurking alone. This, to me, very much looks like you want to have your cake and eat it too. Vote Kison
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Post by Pollux Oil on Jun 19, 2008 16:29:33 GMT -5
Vote Count
Blaster Master (3): Roosh, hawkeyeop, pedescribe misterblockey (3): NAF1138, Rysto, Merestil Haye Kison (3): Nanook, misterblockey, Blaster Master Darth Sensitive (2): hockeymonkey, Kison hockeymonkey (1): bufftabby storyteller (1): Darth Sensitive
Not Voting (3): Kat, storyteller, Survivor Smurf
Two and a half hours until lynch time.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 19, 2008 16:32:15 GMT -5
I disagree. It has been my experience that Blaster hounds people whether he thinks he is right or knows he is wrong. vote Blaster Considers this a pressure vote. Blaster's style is killing us. He is providing opinions only at the end of days not allowing for defenses or backup plans. He does seem scummy to me, but it is very hard to tell given his style. Wow, the other person I'm very suspicious of jumped on me for pretty much the same reason, but goes a step further and says my style is killing us. How is it doing this? The WORST it could possibly do is lead to bad reads on me. I really don't get this exageration at all.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 19, 2008 16:42:22 GMT -5
Kat, it was just an idea when I looked in here and went...whoa...nobody's here. It looks like I was wrong, though. Also this: and frankly it is the only scummy thing that BlaM has done yeah, it's basically the only thing he's done. If someone's done one thing, and it looks scummy, and he looks too scummy, I'm happy to lynch. Vote BlaMEspicially since he's a replacement. I mean, if you're replacing someone who can't keep up, and you can't keep up, then something's wrong. Although in this case it might be that BlaM's gotten mafia overload. Again, I'm completely failing to see the logic here. I don't even see why my pressure on FCoD was scummy. I thought I had pretty good reasoning for my suspicion. The fact that I was wrong is not uncommon. Should we always call people scummy who push lynches and end up being wrong? Was my logic faulty? If so, how come no one said anything about it at the time? If I'm scum, what's my motivation for pushing someone's lynch like that for so long? Would I still be looking as scummy if I'd spent three Days pursuing someone, finally got him lynched, and he turned up scum?
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 19, 2008 16:53:09 GMT -5
Ummmm, |Blam you might want to... unvote yourself, just to be safe. Unless you really meant to vote yourself....
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Blaster Master
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 19, 2008 16:58:04 GMT -5
Correcting as in regards to me. I'm not voting him because I think he is an unhelpful town member. I'm voting for him because I think he is as likely to be scum as anyone else, and an unhelpful town member. You may see that he hasn't done much scummy. I see that he hasn't done anything "townie", and conclude that there is a good chance that he is scum. Wow, this is absolutely horrific. I'm "unhelpful" and I'm as likely to be scum as anyone else. So essentially, you're admitting that your vote for me is, at best, a random shot in the dark and not really based on any evidence. I'm not sure if this is scummy or not yet (though, it may be with the kind of pressure you were putting on Hockey Monkey); but it's absolutely terrible reasoning to be doing what amounts to a random lynch on Day Four.
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Blaster Master
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 19, 2008 16:59:49 GMT -5
Ummmm, |Blam you might want to... unvote yourself, just to be safe. Unless you really meant to vote yourself.... That was a coding error. My vote is currently on Kison.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 19, 2008 17:02:07 GMT -5
I had a look back over Kison's posts. I chose to examine him firstly because of his attack on MisterBlockey. I asked him what he was driving at at the time, wanting a more detailed explanation. His subsequent response didn't, on close examination, really answer my question. My detailed examination of D4.90 does not find a discrepancy. If I were to summarise Misterblockey's post it would go something like this: - - I didn't know who to vote for. I could see the argument against BlaM, but it hadn't convinced me.
- Then I read D4.79. That seemed really scummy to me.
- It also makes me more suspicious of BlaM because it comes at a time when a scummy BlaM might appreciate a distraction.
But it wouldn't, on its own, be enough to do more than make me look at him closer. However, in the very next post he alleges NAF wants to vote BlaM for reasons other than thinking BlaM is scummy. This ignores the whole thrust of the post,in which NAF explicitly sets the idea aside. That makes two consecutive posts smudging others by misquoting. To be fair to Kison, NAF didn't reject the principle, he rejected it in this situation, because the town can't afford to attack someone without at least some ground for thinking that they're scum, and “irritating playstyle” is not one. Believe me, if it was I wouldn't play these games, because things would get very personal. (Yes, I've been tempted. I didn't.) Now, the headache. Do I switch votes because of this? I'm voting for MisterBlockey right now not because I think he's an Evil Entity – his claim of a PFK is feasible. I'd rather see a PFK go than someone on whom I have no handle. But those two posts of Kison's make me very uneasy. Also (having just checked the rules again) if the votecount stays as is, BlaM will be lynched. And right at this moment, I'm more suspicious of Kison than BlaM. So. Unvote MisterBlockey Vote Kison.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Jun 19, 2008 17:38:01 GMT -5
To clarify: My voting strategy isn't lynch the lurker, nor is it lynch the player I can't get a good read on. There are others that would certainly fit those requirements. I'm voting to lynch the player who is deliberately playing this game in a matter that is anti-town. I don't really see any town motivation to play the game in an anti-town matter, nor has Blaster attempted to provide one. Thus, my vote. See, here it goes. You accuse me of playing anti-town, which is a potentially fair perception of my posting habit thus far. However, an inability to discern a pro-town motivation does not mean that one is lacking. I am most certainly aware of the perception and I do have an explanation; however, doing so would require the divulgence of my role and/or strategy surrounding my role. As such, I will assure you that my posting habit is consistent with this end and will make sense if/when such a time comes that I feel discussing my strategy is a net advantage. At this point, I do not feel that is the case. That said, I can easily give generic examples for when lurking is a potentially pro-town strategy. A pro-town power role who can effectively lurk, utilizing a strategy much more similar to what I said in response to Roosh, where his goal isn't to stay under the town's radar, but instead the scum's. It could be used by some power roles deliberately trying to get himself targetted by scum by trying to double bluff (a bit WIFOM, but scum aren't the only ones able to play such games). It could be related in some ways to a specific role that has certain requirements and/or restrictions; for instance, while Joker from Batman is an anti-town example, it IS an example of a power role where the power is post related and it is entirely possible that such a role could be pro-town in other situations. I successfully used a similar strategy in Simpletown where I deliberately looked scummy (though through different means, obviously) to get myself investigated and confirmed while simultaneously managing to avoid night-kills because the scum would figure I'd be lynched eventually anyway. The bottom line is, as town, the only "anti-town" thing I've done, is what has been classified as lurking. I've said multiple times that lurking is not necessarily anti-town, it simply means a lack of effective tells on the person. This lack of tells is simply a lack of information not any sort of anti-town tell.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 19, 2008 18:01:05 GMT -5
writing from cell phone. Hate Blam lynch. Do not like PFK vote at this time. Would vote Roosh but there's no point.
Have no brackets on phone, need Mod help with color.
Vote Kison
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Post by Gir! on Jun 19, 2008 18:02:40 GMT -5
mhaye's post above caught my eye, and I went back and did my own review of Kison's posts. I noticed two things that bother me. First off, his post here (underlining mine): Like I said in my last post if it were earlier in the game I would have no problem lynching BlaM right now because he is pissing me off. Whoa, there, buddy. What's your agenda? Lynch scum or lynch people who piss you off? Better think this one through carefully. Even in the short snippet that Kison posted, NAF pointed out that this was a strategy that he would follow earlier in the game than now and isn't advocating BLaM as a lynch target (or at least, that's my impression). The other worrisome post is here, posted in Day Two, June 4 at 9:37 PM: I haven't yet found the questions he was intending to get to, but neither have I found any posts after that one that answers whatever questions he was asked. Was Kison hoping that said questions would slip everyone's mind? If so, it appears he was correct. For the first couple Days or so, Kison fell into the "One of those people I keep forgetting is playing" category for me, especially with all the Rooshing going on. I'm going back to see if I can find these questions, but just in case I don't make it back to this thread before Dusk. Vote: Kison
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 19, 2008 18:03:39 GMT -5
Work function last night that went longer than planned meant I wasn't able to go over the thread last night as planned.
Of the current vote leaders,
Blam - don't get a scummy vibe, despite his posting tactics this game which seems to have put a few people offside.
Blockey - needs to be lynched, but not yet. We need to get a couple of demons first.
Darth Sensitive - I could get behind lynching Darth, except for the possession breadcrumb. I get the firm impression time is becoming critical for Darth though - correct me if I'm wrong. Presuming Darth started out like Hal as a townie but possessed, Does that mean he turns into a demon if time runs out? I almost think if we have an exorcist it might be worthwhile speaking out if there has been a problem with Darth.
Kison - Has been flying under my radar a bit I must admit. Looking back over his posts this morning briefly, He does ping me a bit. And out of the 'useful' candidates at the moment I think Kison is the most likely to be scum (note scum not PFK)
So Vote Kison
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 19, 2008 18:07:21 GMT -5
Kison, if you have something to claim is the time
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Post by Gir! on Jun 19, 2008 18:29:55 GMT -5
Found one!
June 3 at 1:17 AM. Day Two, posted by Roosh:
Kison never answered, and as far as I know, neither did Czech. Czech's now pedescribe, but he's not given any opinions on the Days before he subbed in, either.
Going to look back further, as by "a few people" it implies at least 3 (as 2 would be "a couple").
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 19, 2008 18:34:51 GMT -5
Just want to get on paper that I am 100% ok with the Kison lynch.
I am keeping my vote on Blocky for 2 reasons.
1) I was right dammit! So he isn't scum, but he is a bad guy. 2) Bird in hand. I know story disagrees, but I think right now we are better off taking the scum we know over the unknown quanitiy. Come morning when we get more information (at least the roles of the people who died last Night) we can take a risk.
But Kisson was going to be my main target tomorrow. So I am fine lynching him toDay.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 19, 2008 18:41:01 GMT -5
I would like to clarify that I don't find myself a bad guy, I find myself a neutral party, and I always play neutral parties town.
So also, yes NAF you were right, but not for any good reason, as I would have played exactly the same way I have (minus the reveal) if I were a town role.
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Post by Gir! on Jun 19, 2008 18:42:35 GMT -5
I've worked backward to the prior post by Kison, which was on June 2, at 8:52 PM. No questions other than Roosh's were asked between that post and the one where he says "a few people have asked me some things". There are a couple questions (from NAF and Roosh) on the same page but before the post I linked, but Kison appears to respond to them in his posts on that page. I don't suppose Kison is on and prepared to answer the Roosh questions?
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 19, 2008 18:46:27 GMT -5
Unfortunately he hasn't been online since his last post to me, just over 6 hours back.
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Post by Gir! on Jun 19, 2008 18:52:26 GMT -5
Even if he signed on now and posted adequate answers, there's not enough time for people to unvote him.
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