Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 22, 2008 22:11:50 GMT -5
You know what? This sucks. I've revealed every blessed detail about my role in glorious living color. I've done nothing at all that anyone can point at to draw warranted suspicion. I can bring the fucking Cop back, if that seems like the play, or I can not. All the stupid "oh, he's trying to get us to no-lynch" crap that hockey and NAF are spouting is just a blatant lie; twice now I've emphasized that I'm not even sure it's the best move even given Kison's Cop-ness. The two of them are so anxious to see me lynched that they can't even figure out what it is, exactly, they're accusing me of trying to do. I really, really don't know what to do. But I'll keep on slugging, best I can, because damned if I'm going to let the scum drag me to the gallows with smoke and mirrors and whipped up bullshit paranoia (yes, NAF, I'm looking at you). From post #3 So have you told us most of the rest of your role or have you told us all of it in glorious living color? You have spouted time after time in this game that the color is irrelevant. I have had to pin my fingers quite a few times because I didn't want to bring another game into this one. Fuck it. In Batman, you argued that we needed to kill the Joker because he was the motherfucking Joker! You know what? I think we need to kill you because you are the motherfucking Necromancer making motherfucking zombies. There. I said it. Get these motherfucking zombies off my motherfucking plane.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 22, 2008 22:19:46 GMT -5
Meanwhile, for the folks interested in such things:
I have said this a few times, and I think it's important to emphasize it. I, myself, am not sure what we should do toDay, and I know I'm not lying. If we no-lynch, one of the following things will happen:
1. I'll bring back Kison and he'll have lots of useful information for us. Huzzah! 2. I'll bring back Kison and he'll have no useful information, but will have the capacity to collect some and we can keep him marginally protected (if I bring him back, and then he dies and hockeymonkey doesn't, she should be lynched post-haste). 3. I'll be role-blocked, and fail to bring back Kison. We've wasted a no-lynch, and now I can't bring Kison back unless we no-lynch again. No one has yet reported anything that resembles a pro-Scum role block, but that doesn't mean there's not one out there. 4. Here's another one that worries me: we no-lynch, and somehow or other the Demons (or some other party) win in the Night.
So here's my question. I understand and appreciate those who are hesitant to trust me. But frankly, depending on the answer to the next question, that may be academic anyway. Here's the question:
Assume, for one moment, that I am being completely truthful. Everything I have said is exactly as I have said it. Given the possibilities outlined above, would you be in favor of a no-lynch toDay.
If the general consensus is "yes," then we move to further discussion of the matter. If the general consensus is "no, we should not no-lynch even if storyteller is telling the truth," then there's not much point considering it further.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 22, 2008 22:23:53 GMT -5
You know what? This sucks. I've revealed every blessed detail about my role in glorious living color. I've done nothing at all that anyone can point at to draw warranted suspicion. I can bring the fucking Cop back, if that seems like the play, or I can not. All the stupid "oh, he's trying to get us to no-lynch" crap that hockey and NAF are spouting is just a blatant lie; twice now I've emphasized that I'm not even sure it's the best move even given Kison's Cop-ness. The two of them are so anxious to see me lynched that they can't even figure out what it is, exactly, they're accusing me of trying to do. I really, really don't know what to do. But I'll keep on slugging, best I can, because damned if I'm going to let the scum drag me to the gallows with smoke and mirrors and whipped up bullshit paranoia (yes, NAF, I'm looking at you). From post #3 So have you told us most of the rest of your role or have you told us all of it in glorious living color? In my initial post, I indicated that I would prefer to leave unsaid what powers go with what number of zombies. I'll reveal that much, too, but good on you for snipping that part and trying to play semantic gotcha games. That reflects a solid commitment to pursuing the truth. Yup. And Kaylee Frye was Alliance and Jubal Early was Town and this is the dumbest argument ever. My argument regarding the Joker came after Santo had openly confessed to being PFK, and came in the context of all kinds of other questions about his claim. So gotcha games and false equivalences. Would you like to place the third vote on me and admit to skimming the thread, too, or have you fired off enough scum tells for one evening?
|
|
|
Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 22, 2008 22:25:02 GMT -5
Some review to do today I think. I'm not sure which way to jump with Storey. Yes wouldn't it be great if he can resurrect Kison, we get his three investigation results and worst case it gives us three confirmed townies. (depending upon what 'specialised' means) But is that 'carrot' too good to be true? Because if something sounds too good to be true it probably is. However, If it is a gambit and Story is on the cusp of a win, why stick his head out and advocate a no-lynch? If his win condition is a certain number of zombies, he could just as easily win with a lynch (anyone but him naturally) and raise a zombie anyway. Basically I can not see any reason why Story would advocate a no lynch (this early) today if he is a PFK? Surely the smart play if he is PFK would have been to wait to see which way the wind is blowing for today's lynch before trotting this gambit out? Something else I noticed that I'm curious about. And has some implications. For the first time last night we only suffered one kill. Yes we had two deaths, but Darth was by his own possessing entity. So to me that means, either A) Being possessed gave Darth (and Hal) a night kill ability B) Either the scum or the Vig/SK/?? targeted a protected person last night. C) Either the scum or the Vig/SK/?? chose not to kill last night D) Either the scum* or the Vig/SK/?? was blocked last night. When Blockey claimed, I immediately thought - War? probably a killer of some sort. Which is why I asked about him having to use his ability every night. To which Blockey in a roundabout way claimed to not be a nightkiller. Blockey this morning asked Blam if he experienced anything last night. If Blockey's power is blocking type power did you target Blam last night? I guess before I think along these lines any further I would like to know some more about your power Blockey or more specifically are you a role-blocker of any sort? * Depends upon if the scum are a "so an so kills him tonight" or a "the scum kill her tonight" if they can even be blocked.
|
|
Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 22, 2008 22:35:12 GMT -5
From post #3 So have you told us most of the rest of your role or have you told us all of it in glorious living color? In my initial post, I indicated that I would prefer to leave unsaid what powers go with what number of zombies. I'll reveal that much, too, but good on you for snipping that part and trying to play semantic gotcha games. That reflects a solid commitment to pursuing the truth. Yup. And Kaylee Frye was Alliance and Jubal Early was Town and this is the dumbest argument ever. My argument regarding the Joker came after Santo had openly confessed to being PFK, and came in the context of all kinds of other questions about his claim. So gotcha games and false equivalences. Would you like to place the third vote on me and admit to skimming the thread, too, or have you fired off enough scum tells for one evening? I'm just putting it out there as I see it. Maybe I have some trouble sometimes expressing myself, but I don't like being called stupid or dumb. (I know you said that about my arguments, but I'm a girl and take things personally sometimes.) So I'm going to go to bed, and maybe things will look different in the morning.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 22, 2008 23:09:57 GMT -5
I'm just putting it out there as I see it. Maybe I have some trouble sometimes expressing myself, but I don't like being called stupid or dumb. (I know you said that about my arguments, but I'm a girl and take things personally sometimes.) So I'm going to go to bed, and maybe things will look different in the morning. I'm genuinely sorry if I offended you. For the record, I'm not accusing you of being stupid or dumb, I'm accusing you of being scum or PFK, and deliberately snipping and making disingenuous arguments because of it. But on the off-chance that you're not, I really need to emphasize the following: in every canon with which I am familiar, "Warlocks" are magicians who get their powers by trucking with evil entities - usually with Demons, in particular. Our Warlock was pro-Town. So I categorically reject any argument based on the color. And I think that if you're not deliberately manipulating, then you're letting yourself be paranoid. Honestly, this game is just starting to get exciting, and I'm getting into it. I have no bad feelings toward anyone, and I'd hate to be the cause of any myself, so please accept my apology if you felt attacked. And see you tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 22, 2008 23:28:26 GMT -5
Preview before posting On that assumption, i.e. you are telling the truth I think a no lynch would be acceptable. Even if Kison hasn't got a smoking gun out of his investigations, he should be able to provide some confirmed townies. Unless you are a PFK with a non-obvious win condition, I just can't figure out any other reason for your actions toDay than you are pro-town. But the little paranoid fella on my shoulder is yelling full bore "It's a trick, get an axe" As per a promise to myself to get a vote out there early from now on. And Og help me if I'm wrong. I Vote No-LynchHowever I'd still like to hear from Blockey about his power to suss out what is going on with him and Blam and his power
|
|
|
Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 22, 2008 23:30:06 GMT -5
Ok, a bunch of things.
Hockey Monkey it didn't matter who you would have protected night three if you hadn't been lying, because my ONE SHOT power redirected all night actions to Tdpats that night, therefore, if you were telling the truth you would have died.
If that power were something I could do more than once, I can see that being too powerful, but it was a single use thing, (also, if you care, it couldn't be used on a horseman, so it even had a chance of failure.)
It is very obvious to me that you're lying. People can choose not to believe me if they want, but I have been completely straightforward from the instant I chose to claim, in fact the only thing I've held to my chest is how my night action works.
Speaking of that, I would really really like to hear from Blam, before explaining my night action, is everyone OK with that?
|
|
|
Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 22, 2008 23:33:47 GMT -5
Finally a piece of evidence to show that I don't believe that Story is a horseman, and it's therefore very unlikely he is a pfk. Story threatened to use his zombies to kill me in order to get me to give up a little more information. Horsemen can't effect each other with their night actions. It's a little WIFOM, but the way it was done didn't seem fabricated to me, and I doubt a horseman Story would've played that gamble.
|
|
|
Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 22, 2008 23:55:08 GMT -5
Ok, a bunch of things. my ONE SHOT power redirected all night actions to Tdpats that night, therefore, if you were telling the truth you would have died. OK, so that is why Mole died then. The nightkillers were forced to target TD because of your power. And Mole was forced to pansy onto TD, because of your ability, so when he died so did Mole. I was all set to jump all over HM based on the above, But - why was anyone killed at all? Because if all night actions are redirected shouldn't Nanook's protection have stopped the kills? Angel = Doc seemed to be the implied power. I don't recall him saying that explicitly. Can you confirm please Nanook? So that means either A) Blockey - you're lying your ass off, or B) Both Nanook & HM are lying theirs off. C) Blockey's 'one-shot' power doesn't work exactly as he thought it did. I have to say Blockey, at this point in time I will take two claimed power roles words over one claimed PFK any day.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 23, 2008 0:03:08 GMT -5
Like I said in my original post which no one seems to be reading, I think there were two night kill attempts made, and we only have one doctor.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 23, 2008 0:04:25 GMT -5
ie in most games if two night killers target someone protected by one doctor, the target still dies.
|
|
|
Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 23, 2008 0:06:56 GMT -5
OK went and found Nanook's roleclaim
So Nanook is a kinda sorta Doctor.
If you can Nanook, without revealing more than you'd like to about how your power works. If your night action on Night 3 was redirected to TD is there any reason you know of that TD would still have been killed despite your protection?
|
|
|
Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 23, 2008 0:14:45 GMT -5
ie in most games if two night killers target someone protected by one doctor, the target still dies. I don't recall ever having come across that situation before myself. Personally I would have presumed the opposite, if you're protected you're protected end of story. But maybe it is the case as you suggest in this game Blockey. I wonder if this might work: Atarus - If someone is protected in this game, say by Nanook or some other "generic" Doctor-like power are they protected from all and sundry kill attempts, or only one kill attempt per protection. (barring special abilities) (No harm in at least asking right? ;D )
|
|
|
Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 23, 2008 0:25:00 GMT -5
This also occurred to me, the killed were unidentified until this morning, which kinda screams one-shot super power to me, which kinda sounds possibly unblockable, but should still have killed Hockeymonkey, were she not lying.
|
|
|
Post by Nanook on Jun 23, 2008 8:18:49 GMT -5
I did not protect anyone the night tdpats and Mole died. The reason for this is related to my doc power, and I would prefer not to explain because it would be a large benefit to the demons to know the details.
I can believe story is Death and is PFK. But I don't think we should lynch him Today even so. Why would no lynching help him if his win condition is something like zombies>town? Further, if no lynching plus 1 zombie is enough for him to win, then he would have won already if he hadn't missed a zombie at the end of the Day. I can't imagine a PFK role that could win that early with no apparent checks. All that said, I'm not sure a no lynch is in our best interests. More on this in a bit.
Hockey Monkey. Two questions for you. Who did you protect last Night? And who did you protect the Night tdpats and mole died? My actions Today will depend at least in part on your answers.
I would vote no lynch if and only if we didn't have a strong demon candidate. Right now, that seems to be HM, but I want to see what she has to say before I go ahead with that. If her answers are satisfactory, then I guess no lynch might work. We shall see.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 23, 2008 8:45:16 GMT -5
OK, I need to try to get a handle on some of what's going on. First, in re: Kison and the plusses and minuses of no-lynching such that he could be returned to us.
Kison's role was described as "Specialized Cop." We have now reached one of those places where the uncertainty of death reveals becomes nearly crippling, because what, exactly, does a Specialized Cop do? In what way was he specialized? We keep assuming that he'll be able to provide us with confirmed Townies, but what if his ability was finding Horsemen and thus can't confirm anyone as anything other than PFK? We still don't know what, exactly, the nature of ryjae's power was. It's possible that ryjae was our find-the-Demons Cop, and Kison was our find-the-Horsemen Cop (it's very unlikely to be the reverse).
So I'm not entirely sure that we should put our eggs in Kison's basket, as it were. If he comes back to life toMorrow and says, "yeah, NAF's a horseman and that's all I've got," well, we've wasted a Day, wasted my powers entirely (once all my zombies crumble, I'm back to zero again), and come no closer to staving off a demon win.
After sleeping on the matter, I think it's time to reveal the full breadth of my powers. This is for two reasons:
1. It will allow for reasoned discussion on how we should, collectively, proceed. 2. It has implications regarding the rest of the roles as claimed.
So here we go. At zombie levels 1-6, my powers are as follows:
(1 zombie) Role block one player [no zombies crumble] (2 zombies) Provide limited protection to another player [no zombies crumble] (3 zombies) Provide 100% protection to another player [one zombie crumbles if activated] (4 zombies) Kill another player [two zombies crumble] (5 zombies) Role-block everyone and everything; a complete shutdown [three zombies crumble] (6 zombies) Restore the most recently-lynched player to life [six zombies crumble]
Also, something I have not said explicitly: my resistance to Night kills functions ONLY if I do not use one of the six abilities above. (Raising a zombie does not count for these purposes; Night kill resistance is active when I am raising). If I take one of the actions from the above menu, I am helpless. This is worth remembering for the future.
There. You now have a completely full role claim.
A few things: first, I obviously have grave doubts about Nanook and hockey monkey. Three protective roles is a lot, even if my protective abilities are limited (particularly since I became immune to Night kills as of this Morning, as long as I take no action). I can't tell how many killers we had at the outset, but it appears to have been only two - the Demons and the Cop/Vig, with other periodic or potential killers scattered about. Three protective roles against only two regular killers, one of which was pro-Town in alignment, sounds wrong to my ear.
Second, here is a second proposition. I think it may be better than the no-lynch. We lynch toDay, as usual. No matter what happens, I shut things down toNight. That costs me three zombies, leaving me with three. ToMorrow, we lynch again as usual. ToMorrow Night, I shut things down again. This would essentially give us two Nights without anyone being Night killed - it would also impede any remaining investigative roles, but as I am skeptical that such even exist I don't know that this would be such a bad thing.
Whew.
|
|
Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
Posts: 0
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Blaster Master on Jun 23, 2008 9:42:58 GMT -5
FOA, Change of Strategy. Second, I am formally acknowledging the point below. also Blaster Master, can you please tell us what happened to you last night? Preferably before we have lest than 24 hours in the day..... At this time, I am not sure that it is in the best interest of the town for me to divulge this information at this time. Revelation of this information may be useful to scum, but I'm unsure how useful it is to town. As such, I will not do so yet. However, I will reconsider once I have caught up and/or seen any possible explanatory reasoning as to how this information is beneficial to the town.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 23, 2008 10:09:56 GMT -5
why? Because, Blam, if you were hit by an attack/condition last night, unless it was done by a horseman, then it wasn't actually targeted at you.
|
|
Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
Posts: 0
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Blaster Master on Jun 23, 2008 10:18:17 GMT -5
I'm going to go ahead and vote BLaM[/color]. Several reasons for this, and I really wish that I hadn't been so fixated on blockey yesterDay that I didn't see it properly. First is this: That's not how it works, BLaM. You don't get to say "I have a pro-Town motivation but I can't tell you what it is". If we allow that argument, scum could act in a ridiculously pro-scum manner and get away with it(like what's happened with you).[/quote] Au contraire, that is precisely how this game works. You said my behavior was anti-town. I provided several generic possibilities for precisely how my behavior could be pro-town motivated. The only argument I'd really seen for my behavior being scummy was purely WIFOM. Further, I will reitterate that I will NOT reveal my motivation directly, because it requires a role claim to go along with it. I am not going to make a role claim at this time because I'm being indicted on a WIFOM argument. Let's put whether my behavior consistitutes lurking or not aside for a moment. Lurking may or may not be anti-town, but it is not a sign of scumminess. That is, the result may or may not be pro-town, but there ARE pro-town motivations for engaging in lurking, and I listed some of these reasons Yesterday. First of all, I make very specific strategic choices about my playstyle for every game. This is a deliberate choice on my part to make it difficult for people to judge my role based on previous games. I think if my role can easily be determined through differences in playstyle from game to game, it very much defeats the purpose. I have played passive and likable town (like Pirates and Conspiracy), and I have played passive and likable scum (like M3 and, for the most part, Asylum). I have played aggressive and abrasive as scum (like Recruitment and Batman) and I have played aggressive and abrasive as town (like Simpletown). Further, I disagree with your assessment of me being aggressive and abrasive in this game. The only person I've really pursued with any fervor thus far has been FCoD, and comparing that to my behavior in Batman and Recruitment is a far cry from reasonable. How have I "come out swining" against my accusers? I've simply said precisely what I've said here, that I've behaving in a pro-town manner. I don't think this is very reasonable. Kison's wagon was brought on by several factors, none of which necessitate me being scum. I think he did a poor job presenting his and votes that made him appear wishy-washy or trying to have it both ways (this is the main part of what drew my suspicion). He had a claimable role which probably should have claimed Yesterday (which would have given us information and prevented it altogether). He was absent when the pile-on happened (which would have allowed him to claim and prevent the wagon).
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 10:41:03 GMT -5
why? Because, Blam, if you were hit by an attack/condition last night, unless it was done by a horseman, then it wasn't actually targeted at you. blockey, how many abilities to you expect us to believe that you have?
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 23, 2008 11:16:20 GMT -5
Is something wrong with the board right now?
|
|
Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
Posts: 0
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Blaster Master on Jun 23, 2008 11:18:14 GMT -5
You know what, I'm not quite finished catching up yet, but this claim by storyteller and the arguments against it are VERY reminiscient of me vs. MHaye in the infamous Chia Bingo Manager fiasco.
To cover the relevant points, MHaye made a similar far-fetched claim that was difficult to swallow. I, as scum, knew it was true and I was pissed because we did some good play to get the detective killed, and he was proposing killing me in exchange for the detective which would essentially have ended the game.
This is not that dissimilar AND storyteller, NAF, and Hockey Monkey were all in that game, so it's entirely possible that any of them could have learned from that fiasco and be making some sort of gambit.
Personally, I find storyteller's claim to be very hard to swallow, but at the same time we have a precedent of a very hard to believe claim being true. I think jumping to conclusions on this matter is potentially very bad for the town.
Evaluating storyteller's claim, we have a lot of circumstantial evidence as to why it's possibly not true; but we don't have any definitive proof. Similarly, we have some circumstantial evidence for why it's possibly true; but, again, nothing definitive. If we believe him and we're right, big plus; if we're wrong, big minus. If we don't and we're right, plus; if we're wrong, big minus.
So here's some questions that I think are relevant to evaluating the gravity of the situation. How does imploring a no-lynch further storyteller's potential PFK win condition in a way that a lynch, other than his own, doesn't help equally or more? If we do believe him and he does bring back Kison, how certain can we be that Kison isn't some sort of recruit much like the Vampire role in Conspiracy? If we lynch someone else and if he does some other power that makes his zombies crumble, what certainty do we have that that power was necessarily pro-town in action?
I don't think we have good answers to any of those questions which makes even analyzing the risk difficult, muchless trying to decide if the risk is worth it. I really don't know what to make of this claim yet.
|
|
Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 23, 2008 12:49:13 GMT -5
Test post.
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 13:27:11 GMT -5
spam spam spam spam spam
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 13:27:32 GMT -5
spam spam spam spam spam
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 13:27:42 GMT -5
spam spam spam spam spam
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 13:28:03 GMT -5
spam spam spam spam spam
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 13:28:13 GMT -5
spam spam spam spam spam
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 13:28:51 GMT -5
I can has new page? You know what? This sucks. I've revealed every blessed detail about my role in glorious living color. I've done nothing at all that anyone can point at to draw warranted suspicion. I can bring the fucking Cop back, if that seems like the play, or I can not. All the stupid "oh, he's trying to get us to no-lynch" crap that hockey and NAF are spouting is just a blatant lie; twice now I've emphasized that I'm not even sure it's the best move even given Kison's Cop-ness. The two of them are so anxious to see me lynched that they can't even figure out what it is, exactly, they're accusing me of trying to do. I really, really don't know what to do. But I'll keep on slugging, best I can, because damned if I'm going to let the scum drag me to the gallows with smoke and mirrors and whipped up bullshit paranoia (yes, NAF, I'm looking at you). From post #3 So have you told us most of the rest of your role or have you told us all of it in glorious living color? You have spouted time after time in this game that the color is irrelevant. I have had to pin my fingers quite a few times because I didn't want to bring another game into this one. Fuck it. In Batman, you argued that we needed to kill the Joker because he was the motherfucking Joker! You know what? I think we need to kill you because you are the motherfucking Necromancer making motherfucking zombies. There. I said it. Get these motherfucking zombies off my motherfucking plane.
|
|