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Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 13:33:31 GMT -5
OK, I need to try to get a handle on some of what's going on. First, in re: Kison and the plusses and minuses of no-lynching such that he could be returned to us. Kison's role was described as "Specialized Cop." We have now reached one of those places where the uncertainty of death reveals becomes nearly crippling, because what, exactly, does a Specialized Cop do? In what way was he specialized? We keep assuming that he'll be able to provide us with confirmed Townies, but what if his ability was finding Horsemen and thus can't confirm anyone as anything other than PFK? We still don't know what, exactly, the nature of ryjae's power was. It's possible that ryjae was our find-the-Demons Cop, and Kison was our find-the-Horsemen Cop (it's very unlikely to be the reverse). So I'm not entirely sure that we should put our eggs in Kison's basket, as it were. If he comes back to life toMorrow and says, "yeah, NAF's a horseman and that's all I've got," well, we've wasted a Day, wasted my powers entirely (once all my zombies crumble, I'm back to zero again), and come no closer to staving off a demon win. After sleeping on the matter, I think it's time to reveal the full breadth of my powers. This is for two reasons: 1. It will allow for reasoned discussion on how we should, collectively, proceed. 2. It has implications regarding the rest of the roles as claimed. So here we go. At zombie levels 1-6, my powers are as follows: (1 zombie) Role block one player [no zombies crumble] (2 zombies) Provide limited protection to another player [no zombies crumble] (3 zombies) Provide 100% protection to another player [one zombie crumbles if activated] (4 zombies) Kill another player [two zombies crumble] (5 zombies) Role-block everyone and everything; a complete shutdown [three zombies crumble] (6 zombies) Restore the most recently-lynched player to life [six zombies crumble] Also, something I have not said explicitly: my resistance to Night kills functions ONLY if I do not use one of the six abilities above. (Raising a zombie does not count for these purposes; Night kill resistance is active when I am raising). If I take one of the actions from the above menu, I am helpless. This is worth remembering for the future. There. You now have a completely full role claim. A few things: first, I obviously have grave doubts about Nanook and hockey monkey. Three protective roles is a lot, even if my protective abilities are limited (particularly since I became immune to Night kills as of this Morning, as long as I take no action). I can't tell how many killers we had at the outset, but it appears to have been only two - the Demons and the Cop/Vig, with other periodic or potential killers scattered about. Three protective roles against only two regular killers, one of which was pro-Town in alignment, sounds wrong to my ear. Second, here is a second proposition. I think it may be better than the no-lynch. We lynch toDay, as usual. No matter what happens, I shut things down toNight. That costs me three zombies, leaving me with three. ToMorrow, we lynch again as usual. ToMorrow Night, I shut things down again. This would essentially give us two Nights without anyone being Night killed - it would also impede any remaining investigative roles, but as I am skeptical that such even exist I don't know that this would be such a bad thing. Whew. FOA, Change of Strategy. Second, I am formally acknowledging the point below. also Blaster Master, can you please tell us what happened to you last night? Preferably before we have lest than 24 hours in the day..... At this time, I am not sure that it is in the best interest of the town for me to divulge this information at this time. Revelation of this information may be useful to scum, but I'm unsure how useful it is to town. As such, I will not do so yet. However, I will reconsider once I have caught up and/or seen any possible explanatory reasoning as to how this information is beneficial to the town. why? Because, Blam, if you were hit by an attack/condition last night, unless it was done by a horseman, then it wasn't actually targeted at you. I'm going to go ahead and vote BLaM[/color]. Several reasons for this, and I really wish that I hadn't been so fixated on blockey yesterDay that I didn't see it properly. First is this: That's not how it works, BLaM. You don't get to say "I have a pro-Town motivation but I can't tell you what it is". If we allow that argument, scum could act in a ridiculously pro-scum manner and get away with it(like what's happened with you).[/quote] Au contraire, that is precisely how this game works. You said my behavior was anti-town. I provided several generic possibilities for precisely how my behavior could be pro-town motivated. The only argument I'd really seen for my behavior being scummy was purely WIFOM. Further, I will reitterate that I will NOT reveal my motivation directly, because it requires a role claim to go along with it. I am not going to make a role claim at this time because I'm being indicted on a WIFOM argument. Let's put whether my behavior consistitutes lurking or not aside for a moment. Lurking may or may not be anti-town, but it is not a sign of scumminess. That is, the result may or may not be pro-town, but there ARE pro-town motivations for engaging in lurking, and I listed some of these reasons Yesterday. First of all, I make very specific strategic choices about my playstyle for every game. This is a deliberate choice on my part to make it difficult for people to judge my role based on previous games. I think if my role can easily be determined through differences in playstyle from game to game, it very much defeats the purpose. I have played passive and likable town (like Pirates and Conspiracy), and I have played passive and likable scum (like M3 and, for the most part, Asylum). I have played aggressive and abrasive as scum (like Recruitment and Batman) and I have played aggressive and abrasive as town (like Simpletown). Further, I disagree with your assessment of me being aggressive and abrasive in this game. The only person I've really pursued with any fervor thus far has been FCoD, and comparing that to my behavior in Batman and Recruitment is a far cry from reasonable. How have I "come out swining" against my accusers? I've simply said precisely what I've said here, that I've behaving in a pro-town manner. I don't think this is very reasonable. Kison's wagon was brought on by several factors, none of which necessitate me being scum. I think he did a poor job presenting his and votes that made him appear wishy-washy or trying to have it both ways (this is the main part of what drew my suspicion). He had a claimable role which probably should have claimed Yesterday (which would have given us information and prevented it altogether). He was absent when the pile-on happened (which would have allowed him to claim and prevent the wagon).[/quote] why? Because, Blam, if you were hit by an attack/condition last night, unless it was done by a horseman, then it wasn't actually targeted at you. blockey, how many abilities to you expect us to believe that you have? I do like how you and Rysto are tag teaming me though. So, which is it, NAF? Is story an independent PFK close to his win condition, or are the two of us scum together? Your arguments are contradictory. Do you know what I think? I think that you're terrified of story right now. Because either he's telling the truth, and a Cop is about to return to life, or he's a lying PFK, making a gambit to steal victory from the Demons. I wasn't really thinking clearly on that one. I was feeling ganged up on and wasn't really thinking through a couple of things, one of which is you are likely town since you didn't have any nightmares last Night. I am frankly a little pissed at Atarus that he didn't give them to you anyway because at least that could have confirmed my fucking power was used on you, but whatever it probably confirms you as vanilla so at least we have that. I wouldn't have soft claimed in the way I did if I had known that you didn't note any effects of my powers usage. I am a Shaman. I have a handful of spells which I can invoke when I feel they are necessary, so I more or less have some vague powers. One is a one shot investigation type thing , one is a role block type thing, and the last I am not telling you about. With Blocky's revelation a lot about how I played the game is now coming into question for me, so sorry about that. I used my investigation on Night 3 to investigate HW who I felt was scum. What I GOT was an investigation of TD, so my assumption was that HM had some sort of power protecting her from my spell. Either way I felt this lended creedence to my theory that she wasn't a doc, but I didn't actually know any more than I did the Day before. Last night I used the role block on Rysto who I had been feeling was playing funny (you may have noticed me mentioning that analysis of his posts produced a whole lot of nothing) and I figured that the power could be used to confirm some things and answer some questions. What I didn't know was that he wouldn't get the damn nightmares. So now I am feeling that both uses of my powers have been totally meaningless. I am not afraid of Kison being brought back, I am just afraid of Story because if we look at what has come out no one has been as powerful as him. Anyway, I am a tad dejected at this point. I would like to point out, for the record and my own ego, that I, if blocky is being truthful (and it would seem that he has been)have now been right twice. Once with Blocky and now with HM. I have been calling her claim bullshit for Days. I guess as long as we don't no-lynch I am ok with not killing story for now. I am not sure why no one else is getting the creeps from him, but hey maybe I am nuts. I have been wrong before. unvote story
vote Hockey
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Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 13:34:33 GMT -5
Missed one: You know what, I'm not quite finished catching up yet, but this claim by storyteller and the arguments against it are VERY reminiscient of me vs. MHaye in the infamous Chia Bingo Manager fiasco. To cover the relevant points, MHaye made a similar far-fetched claim that was difficult to swallow. I, as scum, knew it was true and I was pissed because we did some good play to get the detective killed, and he was proposing killing me in exchange for the detective which would essentially have ended the game. This is not that dissimilar AND storyteller, NAF, and Hockey Monkey were all in that game, so it's entirely possible that any of them could have learned from that fiasco and be making some sort of gambit. Personally, I find storyteller's claim to be very hard to swallow, but at the same time we have a precedent of a very hard to believe claim being true. I think jumping to conclusions on this matter is potentially very bad for the town. Evaluating storyteller's claim, we have a lot of circumstantial evidence as to why it's possibly not true; but we don't have any definitive proof. Similarly, we have some circumstantial evidence for why it's possibly true; but, again, nothing definitive. If we believe him and we're right, big plus; if we're wrong, big minus. If we don't and we're right, plus; if we're wrong, big minus. So here's some questions that I think are relevant to evaluating the gravity of the situation. How does imploring a no-lynch further storyteller's potential PFK win condition in a way that a lynch, other than his own, doesn't help equally or more? If we do believe him and he does bring back Kison, how certain can we be that Kison isn't some sort of recruit much like the Vampire role in Conspiracy? If we lynch someone else and if he does some other power that makes his zombies crumble, what certainty do we have that that power was necessarily pro-town in action? I don't think we have good answers to any of those questions which makes even analyzing the risk difficult, muchless trying to decide if the risk is worth it. I really don't know what to make of this claim yet.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 23, 2008 13:39:02 GMT -5
Woot! Thanks Rysto.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 23, 2008 13:45:01 GMT -5
BTW the people who brought it up are right, I no lynching toDay giving story the win makes no sense. I didn't think that one through. I came up with the idea that he might be PFK while I was looking things over durring the Night and then when he called for a no lynch it twinged me and I sort of flipped out from excitment at having made (what I thought was) something of a breakthrough.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 23, 2008 14:24:14 GMT -5
Well, I sure am glad we got page three up and running so we wouldn't waste most of the day.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 23, 2008 14:27:21 GMT -5
Some of us are working on it, dude. I frankly didn't expect a role claim from you, especially not one that made a fair bit of sense, so I'm a little stymied right now.
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Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 14:37:11 GMT -5
So, NAF? I'm more than a little concerned that you so readily believe me when I say that I had no nightmares last Night. I know that it's the truth, but how the hell do you know that it's the truth?
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 23, 2008 15:23:01 GMT -5
So, NAF? I'm more than a little concerned that you so readily believe me when I say that I had no nightmares last Night. I know that it's the truth, but how the hell do you know that it's the truth? Well, I phrased my post in such a way that I figured on a truthfull answer from you. That's why I didn't come out and ask if you had been blocked, but rather asked how you slept. If you were lying that isn't the response I would have expected. I guess my levels of paranoia run hot and cold? It didn't occur to me that you might lie about that unless you had a killing role, and since we had the same number of kills as always I was mostly hoping to use the block as verification of my role.
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Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 15:41:44 GMT -5
I guess my levels of paranoia run hot and cold? It didn't occur to me that you might lie about that unless you had a killing role, and since we had the same number of kills as always I was mostly hoping to use the block as verification of my role. We did? I count one night-kill and Darth's death because he "finally ran out of time." Do you know something I don't?
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 23, 2008 15:51:07 GMT -5
I guess my levels of paranoia run hot and cold? It didn't occur to me that you might lie about that unless you had a killing role, and since we had the same number of kills as always I was mostly hoping to use the block as verification of my role. We did? I count one night-kill and Darth's death because he "finally ran out of time." Do you know something I don't? No sir I do not. Are you telling me that you did attempt to kill someone and failed? Sorry, I took the "finally ran out of time" as a simple euphamism for died. It looked to me like the same two kills we have always had. Why are you trying to play gottcha with me?
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Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 16:02:54 GMT -5
Yes, but Darth was quite clear that he was acting under a time limit. I took his death to mean that he died because he was a possessed Townie who was not exorcised, and not because somebody killed him.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 23, 2008 16:14:22 GMT -5
Yes, but Darth was quite clear that he was acting under a time limit. I took his death to mean that he died because he was a possessed Townie who was not exorcised, and not because somebody killed him. Ok, I get that. I just figured, from what he had said, that if he reached the end of his time limit something...more...would happen. He was all foreboding with his "it's gonna be real bads" and whatnot. I was expecting more fireworks I guess.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 23, 2008 18:03:49 GMT -5
Yes, but Darth was quite clear that he was acting under a time limit. I took his death to mean that he died because he was a possessed Townie who was not exorcised, and not because somebody killed him. Ok, I get that. I just figured, from what he had said, that if he reached the end of his time limit something...more...would happen. He was all foreboding with his "it's gonna be real bads" and whatnot. I was expecting more fireworks I guess. I think the issue with Darth's death is that he was possessed when he died. Suppose that, because he was not exorcised but came to the end of his time, the Town are handicapped in some way? That's actually what I think happened here - we've lost ground. I don't know how, but that's what I think. Better (ie more awake) minds might want to ponder this. Whether we lost ground with Hal's death as well is not known, but I hope not. He wasn't crushed, but killed by an external force; I'm hoping that's a Survivor / EE neutral result.
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 23, 2008 18:10:22 GMT -5
Woah there.
So NAF you are claiming you role-blocked Rysto last night?
And just coincedentally, last night was the first night we had only one external night kill.
Anything you'd like to share Rysto? Like you have a nightkill ability maybe?
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Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 18:14:04 GMT -5
Suppose that, because he was not exorcised but came to the end of his time, the Town are handicapped in some way? That's actually what I think happened here - we've lost ground. I don't know how, but that's what I think. Better (ie more awake) minds might want to ponder this. I think that you're making things far too complicated. We've lost ground in that another pro-Town player is dead.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 23, 2008 18:22:09 GMT -5
Suppose that, because he was not exorcised but came to the end of his time, the Town are handicapped in some way? That's actually what I think happened here - we've lost ground. I don't know how, but that's what I think. Better (ie more awake) minds might want to ponder this. I think that you're making things far too complicated. We've lost ground in that another pro-Town player is dead. Except I don't believe he was pro town while he was alive. My theory of the possession mechanic is that as long as the possessed player was alive, he counted as an Evil Entity for determining whether the win conditions were met. When he died, the number of EEs apparently reduced. I think the EEs gained something to compensate.
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 23, 2008 18:23:06 GMT -5
That's presuming I believe NAF's role claim of course.
But why the hell not, we've got Warlocks, Necromancers, Angels, the 4 horsemen, demons, possessed people, why not a shaman!
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Post by Gir! on Jun 23, 2008 19:24:05 GMT -5
Sure, why the hell not:
To weigh in on the color-name-argument: I, personally, am aware of 2 fictional universes in which Necromancers are (or at least can be) good guys, and 1 in which The Zombie Master is a good guy (and, incidentally, 1 in which warlocks are good guys having nothing to do with demons, and 1 in which black magic is the good kind). So, it's not inconceivable to me, at least, for Necrostory to be pro-Town. I don't feel up to reading the Gastard Modminds to determine if they'd put something like that in here, of course, but the argument "Necromaster = Bad" isn't really that persuasive to me.
On the other hand, still playing with color arguments, I don't know of any canons in which Death creates zombies. He usually either kills people outright or else harvests souls/facilitates transitions to the Other Side (even non-maliciously in some universes). Doesn't mean it can't happen, of course.
Maybe the Big Bad on the Demon side is the Anti-Christ (pure speculation).
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 23, 2008 19:52:55 GMT -5
Everything fixed then?
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Post by Rysto on Jun 23, 2008 19:54:14 GMT -5
Page 2 is still looking messed up to me, Idle.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 23, 2008 20:00:16 GMT -5
Okay, check page two now. It should be working again. *dusts off hands*
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 23, 2008 20:01:54 GMT -5
Some posts may have gotten lost in the fix, though. If you notice some missing, I'm sorry.
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Post by Gir! on Jun 23, 2008 21:31:17 GMT -5
Page two works for me now. It appears that one post vanished, as Rysto's "I can has new page?" post that used to be first on page 3, is now last on page 2.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jun 23, 2008 22:56:59 GMT -5
why? Because, Blam, if you were hit by an attack/condition last night, unless it was done by a horseman, then it wasn't actually targeted at you. blockey, how many abilities to you expect us to believe that you have? You know what fine I'll just up and say it. Two, the one shot, and my main ability. I believe the standard name is bus driver. I can switch two people as far as night action targeting goes. I got roosh to rebound on himself because I targeted him and story that night, and he targeted story. I targeted Blam and one other person last night, and I'd really rather not say who the other person is until Blam elaborates. I hope this still makes sense. I meant to post this earlier but the thread was crazy.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 24, 2008 1:37:56 GMT -5
That's presuming I believe NAF's role claim of course. But why the hell not, we've got Warlocks, Necromancers, Angels, the 4 horsemen, demons, possessed people, why not a shaman! And don't forget a Milkman! I'm semi-back from my vacation- as I got in a while ago from NoVa, but I've not really had time to get online. And I'm going to have to head out for this week as well (I'm REALLY Worried about the Conspiracy game- I've not even started to read that sucker yet, and I've still got to head out soon to continue to go on vacation with the Family. So my internet access will be spotty still for the next week, but hopefully I can find it vs. the last week, where there simply WAS no internet to be found). Anyways, I've got clues again! Night 4 Clues:
1. The Cake is a Lie. 2. I did the right thing tonight. *Message of encouragement* 3. I will not lose by Day 8. Nope. Totally Won't. *Those are the clues for now.... the Cake thing is some sort of internet Meme from what I gather from Wikipedia (check out "Portal", but I am unfamiliar with the game). I'm gonna say this is WIFOM or nonsensical. * #2... If it's the truth, I THINK i know what I did. But I'll have to think about this one further, as I pretty much WASN'T here for the week, and well I DID do something differently, but I'm not sure yet. -However, if anyone targeted me, that'd be cool to know too as this would help me out in what I may or may not have done. (The Message of encouragement was actually something along the lines of a Congrats, but I didn't feel like putting it out there. But it was a hearty congrats with an exclamation to summarize it). * #3: Erm. Okay. This could also be the WIFOM, or the Truth, or the Lie. I don't really have the time right now to think about it. But if it's the truth its not really helpful, or is it? If it's a lie, perhaps the opposite is the truth? Or is it just a random statement like- I could lose by Turn "insert random # here"? I shall have to ponder this one further. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ My thoughts on Story- I'm not a fan of the whole Zombies thing, but I actually DO like the Massive Night Block idea. That was the one thing that completely helped out the Town in Batman by HoopyFrood, and if you're telling the truth- that is one of the Towniest abilities i can think of. Of course I also think you're either Death or Jesus, story.... But that's just my own paranoid thoughts. But I say if you can promise us a role block, and we see zombies crumble in the morning- that'll at least allay my fears that the Zombies are there just to outnumber us and you're probably not just raising a crazy army. As for the Kison lynch, I thought it was kinda... well outta nowhere. I want to analyze the Lynch and the other data, as now we've got plenty of roles and all. I think something similar to what I did Day 2 should be in order, with color coding of the Votes and all. I'd like to see if there's a pattern or anything. However, tis late, and I've had a long looong drive, and I've still got more issues to deal with tomorrow, so I won't be able to get online as much again this week to do so- if someone wants to help out with that sorta thing, i'd love it. I'll prolly do the Vote Analysis hopefully by tomorrow this time again, as I have the votes all written down, but as for any help with my own role- I'd appreciate ALL the help on that matter. Anyways, that's all for now. And its good to be back. As for the Conspiracy game- I have no freaking clue about what I'll do to catch up in that one.... Anyone know when the Deadlines for posting are for that?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 24, 2008 8:38:38 GMT -5
OK, here's where we stand. Thirteen players remain.
1. Blaster Master 2. pedescribe 3. hawkeyeop 4. hockeymonkey 5. Kat! 6. Merestil Haye 7. misterblockey 8. NAF1138 9. Nanook 10. Roosh 11. Rysto 12. storyteller0910 13. Survivor Smurf
These 13 may be broadly divided into two groups:
THOSE WITH CLAIMS
1. Blaster Master - Soft claimed something, no elaboration 2. hockeymonkey - Claimed MARTYR 3. misterblockey - Claimed WAR, THIRD-PARTY BUS DRIVER 4. NAF1138 - Claimed SHAMAN 5. Nanook - Claimed ANGEL (Conditional Doc) 6. Roosh - Claimed AMNESIAC 7. Rysto - Soft-claimed something (knows about Horsemen) 8. storyteller0910 - Claimed NECROMANCER
THOSE WITHOUT CLAIMS
1. pedescribe 2. hawkeyeop 3. Kat! 4. Merestil Haye 5. Survivor Smurf
It probably has not been said explicitly like this before, so I'll say it now: it is dead certain that some of the players in the first group are lying. There are five players with no claims at all; I will assume two Masons in that group, leaving three. In a game with 25 players at the outset, we could have as many as five scum to start, which would leave four scum now. Thus, at a bare minimum one of the claimants would have to be a Demon. That's not taking into account the possibility of Horsemen; suppose there are four of those, and posit four remaining Demons - in such a case, fully four of the current claimants are lying. (!!!!)
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Here's the problem, and it's a doozy. In the strictest sense, we do not currently know for sure that there are Horsemen in the game at all. It's a fair supposition, and yes misterblockey has claimed to be one of them, but I don't think we should leap to the certain assumption that Horsemen exist until we see the corpse of one of them. We could kill misterblockey, of course, which would confirm the existence of the Horsemen; if he turned up as a Demon instead, I think a very hard eye would then have to be turned on Rysto. This would be one course of action, and I'm not sure it's a bad one.
But first, I want to devote an individual post to each current claimant. Some of their stories stink on ice - Roosh's in particular, although I seem to be the only one who feels that way - and some of them are lying.
In the meanwhile:
This message is for any remaining Masons: Kids, it's probably time to claim. It appears that the no-lynch plan is dead, and perhaps that's as it should be. But I can secure us three consecutive lynches with no Night kill, unless there's something I'm not seeing, and we need the pool as narrow as possible for those three lynches so that we can nail an anti-Town player with all three. Since there will be no Night kills for two Nights as long as my power works as advertised, the only advantage to your staying hidden - that it's a little harder for scum to find the power roles - is obviated.
Please, please consider claiming, and confirming one another (heck, maybe the scum will be foolish enough to counter, and we'll get us a freebie).
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 24, 2008 8:40:17 GMT -5
And don't forget a Milkman! I thought you were an "Amnesiac?"
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 24, 2008 9:05:05 GMT -5
OK, starting with BLAM.
I'm usually the first damn person to come after BLAM if I see a reason, frankly because the possibility that he's scum makes me nervous. But the sum total of the arguments against him have been that he's:
1. Been relatively inactive (with only 44 posts so far, he's among the lower-ranked posters still alive, but he's nowhere near the bottom - that would be pedescribe, near as I can tell).
2. Posted very little in the early part of most Days, then rolled around to post frequently at the end of the Day.
BLAM is on record as saying his odd posting style in this game is consistent with some sort of strategy, related to his role.
By my reading, while his participation has been limited in volume, it has not been limited in content. He pursued FCoD aggressively, and my reading of his arguments suggests that they were reasonable, if incorrect. I am struck by how often - sorry about this BLAM, but it is what it is - BLAM was wrong Day One. He was against the hockeyguy lynch, strongly in favor of lynching FCoD, somewhat pinged by tdpats12. If he is a Demon, and deliberately chose to be wrong about everything, then that's some good play right there.
Of course, nothing in his history exempts him from being a third-party agent of some sort. But on balance, I am disinclined to vote for BLAM toDay, as the evidence is lacking.
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Post by Rysto on Jun 24, 2008 9:10:00 GMT -5
But on balance, I am disinclined to vote for BLAM toDay, as the evidence is lacking. Of course it's lacking, up to toDay the guy has barely posted outside of the last 12 hours of the Day. As the Kison lynch shows, that's useless to the Town.
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Post by Rysto on Jun 24, 2008 11:25:49 GMT -5
Page two works for me now. It appears that one post vanished, as Rysto's "I can has new page?" post that used to be first on page 3, is now last on page 2. The missing post is NAF last post before the breakage: the one in which he voted for hockey.
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