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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 19:51:11 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Jul 3, 2008 19:51:11 GMT -5
Also, unlike vanilla town I have powers which have been benefiting town.
In addition, you misunderstand my power. If someone had targeted Hal that night it would have hit Kat.
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 20:00:28 GMT -5
Post by Greedy Smurf on Jul 3, 2008 20:00:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'll get too much more of an opportunity to be back again before Dusk. I don't know what else I can say in my defense, as it seems I'm in danger of getting lynched because I was happy to still be alive and didn't consider that it was because my medallion had worked. If you were to do your full homework Rysto you'll notice that I actually overlooked 2 things in that post of mine you quoted. Kat pointed out that I had also failed to consider if the no kill was caused by the scum using another power or missing the Dawn deadline. So sloppy analysis by me all around it seems. If that is enough to lynch someone, than go right ahead. To other stuff, because even if I do get lynched toDay, I still want to do my damndest to get a win for the town. Looks like Pedescribe is out, so no use wasting a vote if he is going to be modkilled. Unvote PedescribeVote Mr BlockeyVote is for the known anti-town element. I think we're getting close enough to the end game now that it's getting dangerous to still have Blockey around. There must be at least 2 other unknown anti-town elements still alive. There must be at least 1 demon, and (if blockey is to be believed) 1 other horseman. So minimum of 2 out of the following need to be lynched: Nanook - Angel - No other claims from any Doctor/Psuedo-doctor so I think Nanook is what he says he is. Hawkeyeop - Mason - no counterclaim - confirmed Rysto - Backup Vig - Evidence seems to suggest he is who he says he is. Roosh - Amensiac - no confirmation one way or the other. Pedescribe - no claim, minimal activity to judge on. Kat & Mhaye - both claimed survivor. Smurf - I'm town, "but of course I'd say that, right".
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Merestil Haye
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 20:08:26 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jul 3, 2008 20:08:26 GMT -5
Also, unlike vanilla town I have powers which have been benefiting town. That is utterly irrelevant. If you stay alive to the end, you can deprive the Survivors of the win. You are not on our side. Sooner or later, you have to die. In addition, you misunderstand my power. If someone had targeted Hal that night it would have hit Kat. How do you explain Hal dying that Night? Surely your power would have redirected the attack on Hal to Kat? Besides, that's not what you said when you first declared your action. So you've told us an untruth; either Yesterday or Today. Fair enough. Unvote Survivor Smurf. Vote Misterblockey.
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 20:15:43 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 3, 2008 20:15:43 GMT -5
A reread of Czech's posts suggests that he was taken out by a surge of RL problems. That shifts my reading of him from "new player overwhelmed by complexity," to "new player struggling with the complexity who had problems land on his desk." pedescribe, of course, failed to make the posting minimum for Day 5. (He did not post at all.) If he fails to make the minimum Today he should get the axe. That won't help his side at all. Our options to deal with this are (a) let it happen and hope he's scum, or (b) vote for him and minimise the structural damage to the game. Personally, I've always favoured the "let it happen" approach, especially since I still think there is a good possibility that pedescribe was some form of Evil Entity. (Gah, a 28k is something horrid to get used to after being used to cable. But I'm glad to see I'm back online before teh lynch.) I'm personally am in favor of the letting the stragglers die on their own. So I wasn't pleased to see the Greedy vote on peds, it feels like a cop out to me. But I've noticed that he's unvoted in teh meantime and picked an ACTUAL player, so that's fine in my book.
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 20:24:23 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 3, 2008 20:24:23 GMT -5
I can't win unless both you and the demons tie So wait, you can only win when there's a Townie, a Demon AND you left? That role win condition seems well... nearly impossible. Just because it's so bastardly. It wouldn't be an enjoyable role at ALL to play methinks- knowing that your chance for victory is so slim. Atarus as a mod is alot of things- gastardly sure, and quite creative, but to be a total bastard about a role? I think not. I had always thought you were going to be a "survivor" sort of role- where it comes down to you and just 2 other players, not so specific as to be a townie and a demon. That being said, I do wonder alot about what you've said so far- and how much we can trust you. - I think the odds of you being the only horseman are probably slim, but I'm not sure how to go about finding any of the others, especially if we lack any investigative roles and such. That being said, the last few comments towards you have been quite damning in my book. I don't like liars unless they can prove themselves to be pro-town in some way. So far you've at least been forwards in saying you're NOT allied with the town, but you've been stating your abilities ARE pro-town. And yes, you did let me live, which is a good thing in my book. But the fact is, you're not on our team in teh end. So if I were to believe that you were telling truths about EVERYTHING but your win condition, well that'd make sense to me. The sheer specificity of needing to keep a demon alive in order for you to win is setting off alarm bells. Because if that's the case, then there's NO reason for the scum to want to off you at night, and they're free to focus on trying to kill US off instead. Sure you can redirect kills, but then if you find the scum, what's to prevent you from redirecting kills away from THEM?? That's the danger in my mind of your role, and If i were a scummy player, I know exactly what I'd do with you. That's why I don't really want to have you around. Sure your ability can be used in a pro-town way, but the closer we get to the endgame, the MORE you'll be tempted to use it to play for keeps. So for that reason: Vote Mr. Blockey
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Gir!
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 20:28:01 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 3, 2008 20:28:01 GMT -5
Also, unlike vanilla town I have powers which have been benefiting town. That is utterly irrelevant. If you stay alive to the end, you can deprive the Survivors of the win. You are not on our side. Sooner or later, you have to die. How do you explain Hal dying that Night? Surely your power would have redirected the attack on Hal to Kat? Besides, that's not what you said when you first declared your action. So you've told us an untruth; either Yesterday or Today. Fair enough. Unvote Survivor Smurf. Vote Misterblockey. Are you deliberately misunderstanding MrB, or is his wording just too ambiguous? Basically (as I understand it), MrB's targets "switch", so if another party targets Player A, their action hits Player B, and vice versa. Thus, he's claiming that the action that targets Player A (me) that night, hit Player B ( Hal), but if an action had targeted Hal, it would have hit me. Thus also (italics mine): "then the kill that hit Hal and was targeted at Kat was the mafia nk" and "If someone had targeted Hal that night it would have hit Kat."
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Merestil Haye
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 20:47:31 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jul 3, 2008 20:47:31 GMT -5
Are you deliberately misunderstanding MrB, or is his wording just too ambiguous? Basically (as I understand it), MrB's targets "switch", so if another party targets Player A, their action hits Player B, and vice versa. Thus, he's claiming that the action that targets Player A (me) that night, hit Player B ( Hal), but if an action had targeted Hal, it would have hit me. Thus also (italics mine): "then the kill that hit Hal and was targeted at Kat was the mafia nk" and "If someone had targeted Hal that night it would have hit Kat." Of course I'm not deliberately misunderstanding MrB. It's more likely down to the 2am factor. For some reason, I had managed to get his ability twisted round so that he redirected powers aimed at one player to the other, rather than exchanged them. (There is a reason for this, partly having to do with another game I'm in elsewhere saddling me with a redirection power, and partly to do with timezones.) I've just reread the claim post, and it does say "exchange." So MrB's posts are consistent after all. My apologies, Misterblockey. That does leave open the question of whether I should change my vote back to SS before I go to bed.
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 20:57:43 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Jul 3, 2008 20:57:43 GMT -5
I know Nanook has claimed – but I can't help but have a nagging doubt about him. You see – he's claimed that he didn't use his power one night. That seems to have flown under the radar a bit; a claimed Doctor asserts that he did not use his protective power on at least one Night. However, it's a bit late Today to investigate him. Actually, I stated that I didn't protect on two different Nights. I have a good reason for doing so that is related to my role, and if it's really a major issue for people I'll explain. I'm not sure who to vote for, but I think we're close enough to the end game that it's time to vote for the admitted anti-town element. I don't feel comfortable enough in my reads on anyone else to go a different direction. Vote Mr. B[/color]
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Gir!
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 21:11:41 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 3, 2008 21:11:41 GMT -5
Heh. I'm torn right now between the self-admitted non-Townie and trying to ferret out a Demon. Unfortunately, I don't have any good Demon-reads either. If I listened to my gut, I'd pick Smurf for that.
I would love to hear Nanook's reasons for non-protection, but I don't know if it'd helpful or not.
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 22:02:53 GMT -5
Post by Greedy Smurf on Jul 3, 2008 22:02:53 GMT -5
Just wanted to throw a couple of things out there for consideration. The Horsemen - I can see no reason for Blockey to be lying about there being more horsemen than just him. Which would indicate that there is at least 1 other horseman in our midst. Am I the only one with a nagging doubt that it is possible there are four in the game? This leads me to trying to re-examine everything we are taking for granted at the moment. Specifically with respect to the following - Doctor type role - I haven't seen a mafia game yet without some sort of doctor type role in it. What is the possibility of there not being a protective role in the game? The reason I ask is that Nanook claimed Angel (a type of doctor) and that was taken at face value. Looking objectively, we really have no verification of the claim, no use of his power that we can point at and say, yep, he's our doc alright. We are all assuming -> no counter claim -> claim is true. What if there is no doctor role in this game? This is not to say I find Nanook scummy, quite the opposite in fact, but how much of that is objective examination and how much is "oh, he's our doctor." Vigilante - the easiest role in the world for a SK to claim. I know I looked at this before, and there was the sticking point of no third kill on Night 1. But I'm beginning to wonder if that is enough to automatically put a line through Rysto. There is any number of reasons that a night one kill may have not happened. Hell as Rysto himself has pointed out - for all I know he targeted me Night 1 and I've been running around with a broken medallion since then. ( see overlooked the damn medallion again when analysing night kills the first time I was looking at Rysto's claim when I had to retract my argument). So I don't think Rysto gets an automatic pass either. The Mason - is the one I think that is safe, we know for fact there are masons in the game, and seeing as how a masonry of one is pointless - we know there is at least one other mason in the game. The lack of a counter claim confirms Hawkeye as a mason. What this achieves for me is, if you look totally objectively at the hard facts we really only have a single player - Hawkeyeop who is without a shadow of a doubt town.
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 22:06:38 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on Jul 3, 2008 22:06:38 GMT -5
Vigilante - the easiest role in the world for a SK to claim. I know I looked at this before, and there was the sticking point of no third kill on Night 1. There's also the sticking point that there was no third kill Night Two, either.
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 22:07:16 GMT -5
Post by Hawkmod on Jul 3, 2008 22:07:16 GMT -5
What this achieves for me is, if you look totally objectively at the hard facts we really only have a single player - Hawkeyeop who is without a shadow of a doubt town. Which makes it real difficult for me, since everyone else could be scum. I'm happy with today's lynch. Tomorrow though I want to take a closer look at voting records and Mhaye's posts.
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 22:26:19 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Jul 3, 2008 22:26:19 GMT -5
oh well I'm dead then. I didn't really have a hope of winning anyway. I will say this everyone take a good long look at mhaye and roosh. Mhaye for that clear and almost deliberate seeming misunderstanding of my power, which I have explained and re-explained. Roosh for going along with it so easily. I haven't lied once since I claimed because as I saw it the only way I could possibly win was to convince the town I'd work with them and then hope I got lucky in the run down.
It's funny when a pfk has done more for the town than any town member I can think of.
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Day Six
Jul 3, 2008 23:42:00 GMT -5
Post by Greedy Smurf on Jul 3, 2008 23:42:00 GMT -5
Vigilante - the easiest role in the world for a SK to claim. I know I looked at this before, and there was the sticking point of no third kill on Night 1. There's also the sticking point that there was no third kill Night Two, either. I personally don't see Night 2 as anywhere near as much a sticking point as Night 1. A couple of reasons. #1 I'll have to go back and check exactly what he said, but Ryjae said after targeting KidV night one that he would not be using that particular power again. So unless Ryjae was lying, he wasn't planning on using his Vig power on Night 2. #2 Even if Ryjae did decide to use a night kill on someone, it is a possiblility his killers action trumped Ryjae's action. Thus only two kills. Now, this doesn't mean I want to jump in and lynch Rysto. My main point is that both Rysto and Nanook have, to my eyes anyway, been skating along thanks to claims that objectively have not been proven. Nanook in my mind, gets a bit more leeway, because he was dropping some hints, and came out with this Angel claim out of the blue. He didn't know whether there might have been an actual angel out there (if he wasn't one), or indeed another doctor role to counter. I stand to be corrected on the timing of Rysto's claim, (and I will go back and check when I get a chance) but I recall it being well after Ryjae was revealed as a Vig. So if we presume for just a moment that Rysto is a SK Horseman, he now knows that there was a Vig, and that the Vig is dead, which makes for a very easy claim unlikely to be counter claimed. Just harping on the same point that I guess, I think we need to be careful about what information we rely upon or take at face value.
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