RoOsh
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[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 16:54:31 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 28, 2008 16:54:31 GMT -5
So uh... did we ever get a follow up on the whole "can you post some of your PMs?" from our constantly role shifting fellow? (Peeker i believe it was) hmmm?
(and you're correct, Santo, I stopped playing when I realized I'm probably going to get lynched if that's the point of marbles-or maybe it's whoever get's a score of 20 on marbles? Or maybe it's when 20 points have been tallied in marbles? Who knows.... But they didn't just say 20 votes. that's why I'm curious now.).
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 18:12:25 GMT -5
Post by bufftabby on Jul 28, 2008 18:12:25 GMT -5
So uh... did we ever get a follow up on the whole "can you post some of your PMs?" from our constantly role shifting fellow? ( Peeker My Ugly Scum Bits believe it was) hmmm? (and you're correct, Santo, My Ugly Scum Bits stopped playing when My Ugly Scum Bits realized I'm probably going to get lynched if that's the point of marbles-or maybe it's whoever get's a score of 20 on marbles? Or maybe it's when 20 points have been tallied in marbles? Who knows.... But they didn't just say 20 votes. that's why I'm curious now.). Are you sure? Sigh. When 1 player has a vote on record from 20 other players at the same time, a 24 hour countdown will start. The player with the most votes at the end of the countdown is lynched.
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Gir!
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What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 18:29:47 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 28, 2008 18:29:47 GMT -5
Now, molefan's case against moi: No, ah didn't. Ah FoS'ed Pleo, and explained why. Ah explicitly stated that ah was getting on the diggitcamara wagon. Ah agreed with the logic, and still consider diggit to be suspicious. Since I'm not the only one, I'm clearly a bandwagoning scum. And as Ah said before, Ah supported Mr Scummyboots esq somewhat (thanks for the quote, kat). If that's a bandwagon, ah have been playing this game all wrong. (thanks for the quote, kat). Wha's thes? Are ye two workin' tergether? EYE HOPE SO. OR, IF URE ASKIN WUT QUOTE SHEZ TALKIN BOUT, EYE ASSUME IZ TEH WAN EYE TRACKD DOWN OV HER TELLIN PEEPS 2 LAY OFF SCUMMYBOOTS 4 HIS POSTIN RESTRICSHUN. C MAH POST #689 AT TEH BOTTOM OV PAEG 23.
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 18:36:18 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 28, 2008 18:36:18 GMT -5
My Ugly Scum Bits have a single 733+ post, and didn't post much during that time period. Then the great and glorious mods declared stage one (or the end of the first mission... or something) so that all current post restrictions were over, and My Ugly Scum Bits didn't have to ask for the hat. Hehe, wouldn't it be funny if Kat's restriction was imposed -before- that benchmark, and she really doesn't have one any more. YEZ, DAT WUD BE SO FUNNY. UNFORTUNATELY, IZ NOT SO. TEH POST RESTRICSHUN WUZ NOT IMPOSD DURIN TEH MILESTONEZ, HAS NOT BEEN REVOKD, AN IZ IN EFFECT FRUM DAWN TIL TEH LYNCH TIEMR BEGINS, EVRY DAI. AN ID STILL LIEK 2 KNOE HOO CHALLENGD ME.
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 18:54:14 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Jul 28, 2008 18:54:14 GMT -5
Y'all know that the person with the most votes on them has like...two votes right?
Pathetic.
I really thought that if we gave you 20 as a bar to reach for you might get to it.
Guess we will fix that for tomorrow.
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 19:06:26 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jul 28, 2008 19:06:26 GMT -5
I've got an idea. Everybody unvote, and we mods will just take a straw poll over in the spoiler thread... would that work? Cuz I'd hate to put ya'll to too much effort... ;D
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 19:06:29 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Jul 28, 2008 19:06:29 GMT -5
Since Peeker hasn't deigned to inform us of any of these supposed PMs he's getting, and in an effort to try and cut out some of the noise in this thread, I'll go ahead and vote now.
Vote Peekercpa[/color]
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Gir!
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 19:15:32 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 28, 2008 19:15:32 GMT -5
VOTE PARZIVAL
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 19:26:19 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jul 28, 2008 19:26:19 GMT -5
OK... first, Idle. Read my posts before you snap at me, ok? I wasn't ever claiming that YOU suspected Pleonast. I said, and I quote: "You were an early defender of Pleonast, and I thought the reasons for suspecting her were pretty idiotic". In other words, I said you got it right, not wrong.
Secondly, CIAS. I've been using "she" pretty much all the time because I don't check to see if people are male or female. Apologies!
Thirdly, Bufftabby. Let's get one thing straight: with regards to bandwagonning Diggit and the POS on Pleonast, I quoted the two incidences that aroused my suspicion directly in the post that you yourself mentioned. It's on record, and anybody who wants to can look back and see them. I don't know why you're arguing with me over this.
As regards my mistaken assumption that you joined the Mr Scummyboots Esq bandwagon: you were one of the last players that I took notes on, I'd been making notes and typing them up for the best part of two hours, and I made a mistake. I'm not going to deliberately lie about something that can be (and was) disproved in two seconds flat, regardless of my alignment.
Now, Mr Scummyboots Esq, for your benefit mostly, I'm going to critique what the Bufftabby has posted about me. I'm saying "for your benefit" because something occurred to me about Bufftabby that might explain a few things, and I want to ask her about it. First of all:
"So anyone who doesn't just accept Santo as a townie is scummy?"
I've answered this in my post to Darth, but yes, I do regard Santo as confirmed. The mods have said it outright and his name is printed in green on the player list - how much more confirmation do you need?
As to the specific point, I don't think anyone who doesn't just accept Santo as a townie is scummy. I do think, however, that the scum would want as few "confirmed" townies around as possible, and if they have to spread doubt about Santo to achieve this then it's an obvious tactic for them to use.
"Or maybe it's Day One, and there's not a whole hell of a lot to say."
Agreed on Nanook, but seven sentences is far less than anybody else, even among those I've called "lurkers". I think it's pretty safe to say that Nanook hasn't got "into" this game yet.
"Then why don't you mention these votes in your cases against scum? The only case you mention it in is against me, and Ah never even voted for Pleonast."
I did, when I was talking about Cookies. I just didn't mention Pleonast's name specifically when talking about Cookie's bandwagonning. I'll quote my first post about the Pleonast bandwagon:
"The Pleonast votes are just silly IMHO. It's a case of "ZOMG Pleo missed a point in the opening color she's gotta be scum let's lynch her now!!!" Ridiculous. If she is scum and gets lynched then we got lucky."
Nobody else actually voted for Pleonast except Cookies, and I've made my opinion on him pretty clear.
"This makes zero sense to me. So, hoopy's on your Town list, but you say to block him, one would want to be "110% certain" he's scum."
Bufftabby has got this one backwards. I didn't say that Hoopy was on my town list, because he's not. I don't have a clue what Hoopy is, because there is no information apart from a couple of posts in the "Night Zero" thread.
My point is this. In "Arkham Nights", I said Hoopy was a superb townie. Roosh said Hoopy was a superb townie. Storyteller said Hoopy was a superb townie. I think Santo said something of the same, although I'm not sure on that (Santo could confirm). The point remains, Hoopy was a star in that game. And out of all the people here that the blocker could've picked, they chose him. They could have chosen any one of twenty-eight people, but they chose the person with one of the best histories of being instrumental in helping the town to catch the scum.
Now do you see why I am suspicious of the "blocker's" motives here?
"Ahh, back to Santo. Please, tell me, what scum has he hunted so strongly?"
This is pretty irrelevant IMO, given the fact that his name's in big green lettering on the "player" list, but nonetheless, I take the point that I said he seemed townish, which I stand by. I'll answer it as I would if he were unconfirmed.
He's given reasons which feel townish to me for suspecting several people. (I don't agree with all of them, but I don't see any reason to dispute his motives. And yes, I do include Pleonast in that statement. He might have been more sceptical of her than I was, but it comes across as genuine suspicion, not an effort to make her a scapegoat.) He's voted Parzival for reasons that make sense to me. He's called out Hockeymonkey for claiming that he was always against the Creepy Doll lynch, when HM clearly was on the fence until Bufftabby came along. The same happens with everyone else that he's been suspicious of - there's always some reason behind it, as far as I can see, other than scapegoating.
My impression of Santo is that he throws out ideas in order to encourage people to exchange opinions, which is generally a town trait. He's open enough when sharing his own. He doesn't seem to be at all defensive when he confronts people about his status as "obviously innocent townie". He doesn't seem to be hiding anything guilty. He's had no problems posting when I've asked him to, despite this being obviously role-based (as he's pointed out). He's an pretty unlikely candidate for scum partner of any of my top three suspects, unless he's willing to risk some serious bandwagonning on one of his own allies. (Which he might be - I wouldn't rule him out on the strength of this - but there's other reasons to back it up.) On the negative side, he was supportive of the creepy doll lynch but (unlike some others) was willing to discuss the downside of it - he came across as encouraging discussion, not trying to deliberately waste a lynch.
I've played with Santo when he was a malicious PFK, and I don't see any obvious similarities to this game. Nor do I see him as being obviously manipulative, and I have a hard time imagining him in a scum team with most of the people I suspect. Finally, my gut simply says that he's town, and has from the start. And I'm on good terms with my gut.
"Ah don't have any particular feelings on Idle Thoughts so far, but this doesn't make sense. Just because someone supports Town (which Pleonast may or may not be--ah have no idea), doesn't make them Town."
No, but again there's other reasons for me to have Idle fairly low down on my scum list: he's stayed away from bandwagons and defended a few people, Pleonast included, who I think are likely to be townies. He also had an excellent opportunity to attack Santo at one point, but didn't do it, despite Santo having once suggested suspicion of him. That doesn't sound like scum to me.
Of course, if Pleonast is scum, all this is pretty meaningless - Idle could simply have been defending a fellow scum. But I don't think so; I think Pleo is town. Although I will say that it's annoying to be told that I've been put on his suspect list for his mistake.
"Trust lists are a terrible idea. Either you are scum, or you will be exploited by scum because of this list."
And if I'd gone to bed that night and found a lovely Rajaat bandwagon waiting for me when I came back online? If this sounds far-fetched, remember that Santo had a vote on him at that point. I can't remember how long it had been since he'd been "greened" on the player list, but it has to have been at least a couple of days.
Another point: I've made a list like this in the last six or seven games that I've played. I've heard this exact same thing said before, but curiously, only by the people I've said I suspected. Nobody else ever seems to have a problem with it. I'm ONE PERSON. I'm not a committee of town votors. Me posting my opinion about who is scum and who isn't is not going to break the town's game, and may help it. Either you agree, or you disagree.
Finally, it's not true to say that trust lists - although I don't agree that mine is a "trust list" - only benefit scum. What if there's a doc in the game and he protects the right person because of a list like that one, for example? A public list of hitherto secretly confirmed townies is obviously a horrible idea, but that's hardly the case here. Who's 100% confirmed in this game, apart from Santo?
"You know, scum will try to do that too. (make a genuine effort to find the scum)."
Well evidently, since I've been scumhunting harder than just about everyone else so far and BT has got me down as her #1! My impression is that the real scum are staying quiet - which is why I've laid such stress on the "lurkers" aspect of this. Again I come back to the Batman game. Three out of six scum were on my (fairly small) "lurkers" list at the start. I've seen nothing to suggest that the same isn't true here.
Also note that I'm wary of Roosh - but I also don't want to make another huge mistake with his alignment (as I did last game). He's good enough that he can act a very convincing town persona. He's a genuine problem and I'm watching him closely, but at this point he's not a top suspect to me.
"Quick to jump on bandwagons? Yeah, My Ugly Scum Bits guess her analysis just doesn't pass the sniff test. She should really speak up a lot more."
Sarcasm! But seriously, see my bit about the Pleonast votors earlier on.
As for the case against Bufftabby herself, a couple of points need replying to:
"So? If that is Pleo's role, he wouldn't have needed to read that part of the Dawn post to know about it."
I don't think Bufftabby gets my point here. Let me break it down. Pleonast, assuming he's not "playing for keeps", is either scum or town.
If Pleonast is scum, he must have made up the "executioner" role, which was specifically mentioned in the dawn post. Ergo, Pleonast must have read the dawn post in enough detail to pick up on the "executioner" detail, and is much less likely to have missed the bit about Hoopy.
(The loophole is if the "executioner" is a scum role; but if that's the case, why did Pleo claim it upfront instead of keeping it secret?)
Now if Pleonast is town, he's probably telling the truth about the "executioner" role, which means that he didn't have to read the dawn post in any detail to know about it - he'd get it PM'd to him. That being the case, there's really no evidence to suggest that he read that post in any detail, including the bit about Hoopy.
And why would "skimming" the dawn post be evidence either way? I presume that neither side knows what's in it in advance. Both would want to read it equally, I would have thought.
"Because if scum are anything, it's predictable. Not to mention that if I've only posted fluff, how did Ah get on so many bandwagons?"
You don't need strategic posts to bandwagon; that's the advantage of a bandwagon, it's easy to hop on the back of someone else's reasoning. What I meant was that I'd predicted how a scum would act, and Bufftabby fit the pattern. It wasn't meant to be insulting BTW, and I didn't mean to cause offence. However - I read everyone's posts, one by one, in great and excrutiating detail, and Bufftabby's were the ones that seemed most like what I'd expect from scum. Again, call it gut feeling if you like, but I think it's more than that. It's a question of anticipating how the scum would react, how they'd reason, what the tone of their posts would be.
As regards the specific points regarding Pleo, Diggit and Mr Scummyboots esq, I've addressed them elsewhere.
Now back to Bufftabby.
It's seems ironic that this post has more genuine strategic content in it than pretty much anything else you've done IMO, considering I know it's based on a complete fallacy. I read it in full a few times, and the thing that struck me was that you seemed determined to fit your arguments in with your preconceived notion that I was scum. At first I took it as OMGUS, pure and simple - you wanted to come up with reasonable-sounding arguments against me because you were scum. Then, going over your posts while trying to see them as town, something else occurred to me.
So I have a question for you - and if I'm right, you'll know what it means. In my analysis post, I've made certain assumptions regarding certain things in the game. I think one of those assumptions might be wrong, and if you're town, you might be in a position to know that that's the case. It might also give you an extra reason to suspect me. So the question is, have I wrongly assumed something about a particular part of this game? No details are needed (or wanted) - a simple "yes" will do if I'm correct.
Unvote Bufftabby, in the interests of self-preservation and town harmony. Vote Parzival. (If I have to join a bandwagon, Parzival's more suspicious to me than Peeker right now - it looks as though he might have accidentally "trapped" himself in this Santo voting situation and can't back down without looking more suspicious. It's not much, but from my POV he's infinitely more likely to be scum than I am.)
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 21:21:05 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jul 28, 2008 21:21:05 GMT -5
Since Peeker hasn't deigned to inform us of any of these supposed PMs he's getting, and in an effort to try and cut out some of the noise in this thread, I'll go ahead and vote now. Vote Peekercpa[/color][/quote] And Nanook we don't ever seem to see eye to eye so your vote is not unexpected. Gotta say it's a mistake if you and the rest of your ilk are town, however. Be vewwy vewwy quiet. Heh heh heh heh. And I wish I was batshit insane. Might make more sense then. Vote Lettuce. PM quote to follow.
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 21:30:21 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jul 28, 2008 21:30:21 GMT -5
Ok someone is going to have to help me. How do I quote from a PM and paste into the thread? Other than just a cut and paste operation. If that's the case it's going to take a while.
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 21:38:08 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Jul 28, 2008 21:38:08 GMT -5
Why would it take a while to cut and paste what you need to quote?
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 21:39:23 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Jul 28, 2008 21:39:23 GMT -5
Also, you quote PMs the same way you would a post in this thread, except you'd need to copy the text and move it here.
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Gir!
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 21:39:54 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 28, 2008 21:39:54 GMT -5
WOW, HOW LOTZ DA PMS DO U HAS, DAT ITLL TAEK MOAR THAN FEW MINUTEZ?
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 21:44:57 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Jul 28, 2008 21:44:57 GMT -5
Unless he's stalling and trying to come up with something...
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 21:48:42 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 28, 2008 21:48:42 GMT -5
JUS COPY AN PASTE WON REAL QUICK, DEN GO BAK 4 DA OTHERS, K, PEEKR?
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 21:49:44 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Jul 28, 2008 21:49:44 GMT -5
He's not here anymore, I think. Bummer.
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 21:54:21 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jul 28, 2008 21:54:21 GMT -5
OK... first, Idle. Read my posts before you snap at me, ok? My Ugly Scum Bits wasn't ever claiming that YOU suspected Pleonast. My Ugly Scum Bits said, and My Ugly Scum Bits quote: "You were an early defender of Pleonast, and My Ugly Scum Bits thought the reasons for suspecting her were pretty idiotic". In other words, My Ugly Scum Bits said you got it right, not wrong. You're right, I misread. However just so you know, Pleonast is a guy. And you're still on my suspicion meter.
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 22:02:49 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Jul 28, 2008 22:02:49 GMT -5
Hey M-ds... Can My Ugly Scum Bits get a happy dance?*because My Ugly Scum Bits suddenly realized something* The great and glorious mods haven't been giving us Vote Counts... in fact, the only thing they've been giving us CLOSE to the vote counts... is that Marble list. ... FUCK. I- was doing some pondering earlier today. Just tossing some scenarios around about the Marbles[/color] and the possibility that they are somehow connected with the Vote C0unt. This was what I- gathered... First, if Roosh really thought the Marbles[/color] scores were votes, would he make a point of telling anyone when he had the lead? His post basically has scared people away from playing Marbles[/color] all together. Essentially guaranteeing that he remains in first place. Does he really think the score equates to votes, or does he think he'll win some sort of prize for first place? I- know if I- thought the Marbles[/color] score equaled votes, I- wouldn't start throwing that idea around. All it does it make people think twice about playing Marbles.[/color] Then, one of our mods said this: Y'all know that the person with the most votes on them has like...two votes right? Pathetic. My Ugly Scum Bits really thought that if we gave you 20 as a bar to reach for you might get to it. Guess we will fix that for tomorrow. Possibly misleading, but would NAF really come out and blantantly lie about the count of votes? I- don't think so, but I- could be wrong. That kind of rules out the Marbles[/color] score equaling votes. Now it just comes down to if Roosh really didn't think the score was equal to votes, or if he really did, and we probably won't know until tomorrow. One thing I- do know though, is that Roosh is one crafty son of a gun. Any thoughts? And I- realize is may be a giant steaming cup of WIFOM, but I'm still putting it out there.
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Gir!
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What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 22:13:53 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 28, 2008 22:13:53 GMT -5
WELL, IF ROOSH DID FINKZ MARBLEZ SKOR WUZ EQUAL 2 VOTEZ, HE MISD TEH CONVERSASHUN DAT TOOK PLACE ON PAEG 18 BOUT VOTEZ. IN RESPONSE 2 TEH GROWIN ENTHUSIASM OV TEH MARBLE SKOR IDEA: The Merciful and Magnanimous El Conquistador would spare you all from a small portion of your misery. While the great and glorious mods do enjoy watching you lot flail around like a bunch of prepubescent drunk giraffes, it strikes us that inadvertant confusion is not nearly as funny as intentional confusion. Ergo and therefore, please read the opening color as stating that 20 votes for a single player is required to start the countdown.
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Gir!
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What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 22:26:24 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 28, 2008 22:26:24 GMT -5
SO, IZ BEEN OVAR AN HOUR SINCE PEEKR WUZ GOIN 2 POST HIS PMS. TEH DELAY HAS BECOME REMARKABLY SIGNIFICANT IN MAH MIND.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 22:41:10 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jul 28, 2008 22:41:10 GMT -5
vote peekercpa
Until I see PM's this vote stays.
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 22:47:54 GMT -5
Post by bufftabby on Jul 28, 2008 22:47:54 GMT -5
Let's play Q&A with Molefan and bufftabby! Thirdly, Bufftabby. Let's get one thing straight: with regards to bandwagonning Diggit and the POS on Pleonast, My Ugly Scum Bits quoted the two incidences that aroused my suspicion directly in the post that you yourself mentioned. It's on record, and anybody who wants to can look back and see them. My Ugly Scum Bits don't know why you're arguing with me over this. You characterized my FoS as a bandwagon. That is what Ah take issue with. That's why Ah'm arguing with you. This we can agree on. Ah would posit that I'm arguing reasonably in that direction, rather than scummily. The Santo Issue[/i] seems to be a matter of opinion at this point. Pardon me for not making that connection; Ah don't think it was an as explicit connection as it seems to you. Maybe Ah just missed it? Ah know how you feel about Pleonast. Ah never misunderstood that. You seem to making a lot of noise over this Pleonast "bandwagon", that you say consisted of a single vote. You're right. Ah misread/misunderstod what you were saying there. Apologies all around. Oh, well since you've got confirmation bias, I'm sure his reasons are great. I'm not saying Ah think he's scummy, but we've been over that part. Really? I've been lectured on it when Ah snuggled one person, let alone created an entire trust/distrust list. I'm surprised RoOsh and BlaM have nothing to say on the snuggling, after the drubbing they gave me a couple of games ago. Now Ah do see your point, actually. That does make some sense. Not that Ah've noticed. Sorry, ah guess ah'm scum.
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Gir!
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 23:00:51 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 28, 2008 23:00:51 GMT -5
SCREW IT.
UNVOTE PARZIVAL.
VOTE PEEKERCPA.
*AMUSD DAT LOLCATTIN DIDNT CHANGE ANY OV DAT*
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Day One
Jul 28, 2008 23:01:09 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jul 28, 2008 23:01:09 GMT -5
Nite nite, players! It's now midnight, EDT (which I figure is the time zone most of ya'll are in). Night thread with lynch color to follow shortly.
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