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Post by storyteller0910 on Sept 19, 2008 12:11:35 GMT -5
YOUR ATTENTION, PLEASE.
COMETOTHEDARKSIDEWEHAVECOOKIES HAS ASKED FOR A SUB FOR THIS GAME. IF ANY OF THE OBSERVERS IN THE S.H.I.E.L.D. OBSERVATION DECK OR ELSEWHERE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE HER SPOT, PLEASE PM STORYTELLER 0R KAT AT YOUR EARLIEST CONVENIENCE. OTHERWISE, IDLE THOUGHTS, YOU MAY BE SUCKED BACK IN DESPITE YOUR BEST EFFORTS
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Post by NAF1138 on Sept 19, 2008 12:13:29 GMT -5
YOUR ATTENTION, PLEASE.COMETOTHEDARKSIDEWEHAVECOOKIES HAS ASKED FOR A SUB FOR THIS GAME. Bye cookies.
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Post by Pleonast on Sept 19, 2008 12:25:00 GMT -5
What about my point 3 (it will restrict what Scum can claim later)? I feel like this is Firefly all over again. I am of the opinion that name claims will only help scum and am therefore completely opposed to the idea. Can someone, Pleo maybe, give me a concrete example of how name claims will help town? You state that name claims will restrict what Scum claim later. How? Maybe I'm stupid but I'm just not getting it. I gave an example earlier: a player who to be Iceman would be suspect if he then later claimed something out of character (I don't know, a Night kill power?). To spell it more, say I claim I am Robert "Bobby" Drake (what's listed after REAL NAME in the role PM). (Alternatively, we could reveal our blue name that's at the top of the role. Or both, I don't think it matters.) Without making any assumptions as to alignment, it does restrict what my powers could be ( Iceman Wikipedia). No exceptionally lethal powers, no mental powers. Whatever power I claim to have later in the game would need to be explained in terms of the character. This isn't a problem to anyone who told the truth, but would be for lyars. Only Scum should fall into the second category. And NAF, I see how cover stories could be a problem for my point 1. But my point 3 isn't about catching scum in making an unguided claim, it's about forcing them to explain themselves later in terms of what they earlier claimed. If they can choose their claim later in the game, they can pick whatever fake role suits facts at that time best. By making them claim now, they won't have that advantage.
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Post by Rysto on Sept 19, 2008 12:25:13 GMT -5
*nods* Pleo's point three is the only reason I'm willing to go along with it--it nails people down to a baseline we can then compare against if they slip later. My worry about point 3 is that if we can use to eliminate certain players from having certain roles, then the scum can do the same thing and it might give them a bead on our more important power roles.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 19, 2008 12:28:46 GMT -5
Sorry to see you go DarkCookies.
Idle? Get in here pronto. No arguments.
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Post by NAF1138 on Sept 19, 2008 12:30:31 GMT -5
And NAF, I see how cover stories could be a problem for my point 1. But my point 3 isn't about catching scum in making an unguided claim, it's about forcing them to explain themselves later in terms of what they earlier claimed. If they can choose their claim later in the game, they can pick whatever fake role suits facts at that time best. By making them claim now, they won't have that advantage. Ok, I get that. And it's a fair point. I don't know that it will directly net us scum, but it will make the game harder for them. Again, I am not opposed to a name claim in any way.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Sept 19, 2008 12:31:48 GMT -5
and again unlike the town, the scum will have an easier time doing things with name claims, since they'll have a baseline to compare them to.
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 19, 2008 12:32:28 GMT -5
Oh, I have an idea. Would everyone state their level of familiarity with this comic world? Might be nice to see who knows how much. I'll start: I've never read Marvel comics, but I've watched a few cartoons and movies. As you might guess from me helping mod the Batman game, I'm pretty familiar with the Marvel Universe. What can I say, I'm a comic book geek?
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Post by Zeriel on Sept 19, 2008 12:33:47 GMT -5
I figured there would be cover roles--for example, I'm definitely not on the lily-white side of the Marvel spectrum (that's sufficiently vague it shouldn't even count as a partial claim). I'm just speculating at ways that it would be possible to have people say things as definite now, so that they could be more accurately mined for contradictions later--in my experience, subtly contradictory statements and bending of facts/weaseling are the two most accurate scum tells.
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Post by NAF1138 on Sept 19, 2008 12:43:22 GMT -5
Oh, I have an idea. Would everyone state their level of familiarity with this comic world? Might be nice to see who knows how much. I'll start: I've never read Marvel comics, but I've watched a few cartoons and movies. Missed this till boozy posted. I was a big comic geek until my senior year in college. At one time I could have told you the life histories of very obscure characters in a stupid amount of detail. It has been about 4 years since I have regularly ready any comics and a lot of that brain space has been rewritten with knowledge of obscure playwrites and post modern theatrical theory, but I haven't forgotten everything.
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Post by Rysto on Sept 19, 2008 12:47:20 GMT -5
I know virtually nothing about Marvel comics, by the way.
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Post by Hawkmod on Sept 19, 2008 12:47:26 GMT -5
Hey, all.
My knowledge of marvel is pretty massive. It is where I get one of my highest geek index scores.
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Post by Pleonast on Sept 19, 2008 12:49:28 GMT -5
*nods* Pleo's point three is the only reason I'm willing to go along with it--it nails people down to a baseline we can then compare against if they slip later. My worry about point 3 is that if we can use to eliminate certain players from having certain roles, then the scum can do the same thing and it might give them a bead on our more important power roles. That'd be my point 2 (give the Scum a better idea of who to target). Point 3 (restrict what Scum can claim later) can't hurt Townies who do not lie about their role. And I agree that point 2 is strong enough to make the name reveal not beneficial to the Town. But it's borderline for me, which is why I put the idea forward. Several players think that the name reveal is weak enough that points 1 (give the Town a better idea of what we have) and 2 aren't important. If they are right, then the end-game benefits of point 3 will out-weigh the risks we have from 2.
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 19, 2008 12:51:36 GMT -5
My worry about point 3 is that if we can use to eliminate certain players from having certain roles, then the scum can do the same thing and it might give them a bead on our more important power roles. This is my concern. A mass claim gives the scum a menu to choose from, which I'm not sure is balanced by restricting the scums later claims.
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 19, 2008 12:59:32 GMT -5
Oh, and I'm not exactly conversant with the xmen universe. I'll be able to recognise most major characters, but I doubt I'll be much help when it comes to metagaming the setup.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 19, 2008 13:00:24 GMT -5
I'm not keen on nameclaiming right now. So I probably won't.
I'm not familiar with comics of any genre; I have not been following any storylines since the early 70s (I think). I can't remember when I stopped buying them, and whatever I had is long gone (except for some TV21 stuff that antedates even my awareness of the marvel comic universe).
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Post by NAF1138 on Sept 19, 2008 13:00:30 GMT -5
My worry about point 3 is that if we can use to eliminate certain players from having certain roles, then the scum can do the same thing and it might give them a bead on our more important power roles. That'd be my point 2 (give the Scum a better idea of who to target). Point 3 (restrict what Scum can claim later) can't hurt Townies who do not lie about their role. And I agree that point 2 is strong enough to make the name reveal not beneficial to the Town. But it's borderline for me, which is why I put the idea forward. Several players think that the name reveal is weak enough that points 1 (give the Town a better idea of what we have) and 2 aren't important. If they are right, then the end-game benefits of point 3 will out-weigh the risks we have from 2. This is where I am starting to lean, btw. It will be an edge for the town if only a slight one.
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Darth Sensitive
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Sept 19, 2008 13:00:31 GMT -5
I'm going to come down on the side of a name claim. It isn't firm by any means but I'd assume that forcing scum to go with previously stated lies is more to our advantage than slightly narrowing down scum targets.
We're all powered. M-Fing superheros! We don't cower in fear and hide our identities from everyone until the government passes a bill requiring that we do so, do we!?!?
:::looks at avatar::: oh yeah.
(Bit of a comic book geek - won't pay for em, but if it's bound at the library, I've read it.)
But I say we use the random.org method using a seed from football tomorrow.
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Post by Hawkmod on Sept 19, 2008 13:00:36 GMT -5
What about my point 3 (it will restrict what Scum can claim later)? Sorry, I forget that you and Z didn't play in Batman. My guess is that Story and Kat will have given out cover roles to the scum like were given to the scum in Batman, to prevent the breaking of the game with a name claim. If anyone claims the Killer Moth they are lying! Well, unless it's me. Speaking of which, I remember having this discussion that game. People argued that there wasn't any apparant negative to full reveal. But not knowing what the negative is doesn't mean it isn't there. It working out okay thanks to your lie and mine, but it could certainly have thrown the game to Hal if he survived a while longer. I wouldn't put it past Story or Kat to do something similar.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Sept 19, 2008 13:18:29 GMT -5
I'm opposed to mass claim. Hawkeyeop mentioned Batman. In the end, it worked out to town's benefit. But the misdirections on the part of the masons were one reason why. They would have been outed otherwise. And we lost a detective and Hal after the claim. (And Hal was actually more useful to us than scum.) Many of the characters in the marvel universe have connections to each other. We run the risk of exposing lovers, siblings, masons, etc. It's possible that there are enough groups in our menagerie of characters that no group will stick out as obvious, but we don't know that.
Also, my power doesn't really fit with what you would expect from my character. I mean, you can spin it to work, but it wouldn't be what one would expect. I'm probably not the only one in this situation. Are we all going to become suspect just because of this?
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Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 19, 2008 13:24:15 GMT -5
Here's another con to the name claim: in Firefly there were several players that had names that were just made up. There's nothing to stop scum from claiming a name that isn't in the Marvel universe. That would nullify the advantage of holding people to their claims later.
--FCOD
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Post by Zeriel on Sept 19, 2008 13:35:44 GMT -5
I also kinda worry about the firefly-game style thing whereby people with known, common names had no powers even though it might well have been logical for them to. From my point of view, more worrisome than "giving the scum a menu" is "giving the town a reason to meta-analyze instead of settling down to business".
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Post by Zeriel on Sept 19, 2008 13:39:05 GMT -5
Regardless, I'm only discussing this kind of uber-strategy on Night Zero. When Day One officially starts, I think this discussion should close.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Sept 19, 2008 14:05:15 GMT -5
QUESTIONS AND CLARIFICATIONS
THE WATCHERS HAVE RECEIVED A FEW QUESTIONS, THE ANSWERS TO WHICH MAY BE OF INTEREST TO ALL IN ATTENDANCE. NOTABLY THE FOLLOWING:
1.WHEN A PLAYER DIES, UATU WILL REVEAL THE PLAYER'S ROLE NAME AND ALIGNMENT, ALONG WITH A GENERAL INDICATION OF THAT PLAYER'S POWER TYPE. THIS WILL BE A VERY GENERAL INDICATION, FALLING INTO ONE OF 4-6 CATEGORIES AND WITH NO GREATER SPECIFICITY FORTHCOMING.
2. THE WATCHERS ARE ALL EXTREMELY INTERESTED IN YOUR THOUGHT PROCESSES AS YOU PROCEED THROUGH THIS GAME. JOURNAL ENTRIES, MUSINGS, GLOATING, OR EVEN EXPRESSIONS OF ANGER AT UATU AND THE OTHER WATCHERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED. IT IS GOOD TO BE ABLE TO MEET THE QUERY "WHAT WAS HE THINKING?" WITH A FACTUAL ANSWER.
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Post by Hawkmod on Sept 19, 2008 14:25:02 GMT -5
Hey, Uatu, if the town does poorly you are going to help out right? I mean the universe could be at stake here.
Also, have you clarified what happens if there is a tie in the voting. I don't see it anywhere.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 19, 2008 17:30:22 GMT -5
Oh, I have an idea. Would everyone state their level of familiarity with this comic world? Might be nice to see who knows how much. I'll start: I've never read Marvel comics, but I've watched a few cartoons and movies. Well when I was growing up the only reading material available was the Sears catalog. So I've got the whole top loading v side loading washing machine thingy down. Comics not so much.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 19, 2008 17:42:28 GMT -5
(She's actually shown interest in playing mafia, but doesn't feel she's got enough time with law school. She doesn't want to be spoiled in any game I play in that she's not in because she wouldn't want to accidentally slip any knowledge she knows of.) Aren't lawyers supposed to be good at keeping secrets? Attorney-client privilege, etc. Client pays attorney 500 dollars in crisp hundreds for services. Once client leaves the attorney realizes that because the money is so new that two bills have stuck together and the client has overpaid 100. Ethical dilema. Does the attorney tell his partner?
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Post by Gir! on Sept 19, 2008 17:59:39 GMT -5
Hey, Uatu, if the town does poorly you are going to help out right? I mean the universe could be at stake here.
Also, have you clarified what happens if there is a tie in the voting. I don't see it anywhere. 1) Watchers are sworn to observe and record, but never interfere. 2) If the Day ends with a tie vote, the first player to reach that number of votes will be lynched. The rules have been updated with this information.
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Post by Rysto on Sept 19, 2008 18:21:56 GMT -5
I just want to make it clear that I don't know anything about the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. It's not me, I swear.
Thank God story and Kat didn't decide to stick with a backup Vig role...
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Post by Zeriel on Sept 19, 2008 20:59:23 GMT -5
Uh, Rysto?
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