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Post by peekercpa on Oct 19, 2008 8:32:23 GMT -5
Based on the following: - FCOD's previous post - My own statements regarding the late bandwagon in a previous post - The fact that MHaye hasn't name claimed or really come up with a good excuse not to claim his name when he is FIRST on the list Hoopy posted (follows later in this post) I don't need to explain it beyond what I said Yesterday. Like FCOD, I will vote MHayeIt's not set in stone, but at this point he really needs to take action. This looks like a pressure vote to me. "Do what I say or get lynched." I'm prepared to get lynched then. I will not do something just because another player demands I do so and votes for me until I do. Pressure votes are bad - worse than random votes, frankly. At this point, I decline to nameclaim. The last time someone tried this on me, the Town lost their doctor. I agree that, generally, votes based on either do this or else are kind of unnecessary. I don't, however, see how a name claim is unreasonable. I mean names have been keeping close to cannon but not perfectly. Coupled with the fact that there are roles where names are a function of certain night actions seems to give scum a greater chance for slippage than town. Meh, my two cents. OSU still sucks.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Oct 19, 2008 9:31:11 GMT -5
Mhaye: - You still haven't given any reason for not wanting to name claim in terms relevant to the game. (IRL problems are understandable, but if you had time to post your latest posts, surely you had time to either post your name or a reason not to) - You needed to take action because you were holding up the name claiming. Like I already said, even you saying that you don't want to claim for whatever reason is an action. What I am asking is not unreasonable.
Finally, I'm voting for you because your behaviour is scummy. I want my vote recorded early so we don't get a last minute train like we did yesterday.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 19, 2008 10:05:41 GMT -5
Mhaye: - You still haven't given any reason for not wanting to name claim in terms relevant to the game. (IRL problems are understandable, but if you had time to post your latest posts, surely you had time to either post your name or a reason not to) Yes, I have. I did not see it until too late to consider it Yesterday, and by the time I was in a position to consider it Today, you had pressure-voted me. I will not now be nameclaiming, on principle. I will revisit the question only if you withdraw the vote.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Oct 19, 2008 10:18:44 GMT -5
I'm not pressure-voting you - I'm voting for you because I think you are scum. Until I find someone more scummy, or you scum-level drops, the vote stays. I don't care if you name claim anymore. Again, my reasons for the vote:
- You seem to me to be scum trying to fly under the radar - Your complete refusal to discuss the nameclaim other that your "He's pressure-voting me!" excuse. - Your voting record
Again: Name claim or not, the vote stays.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 19, 2008 11:49:09 GMT -5
Well, for what it's worth, Threnody seems the only one to have anything to do with zombies, so my guess would be that's the censored name. Busted. So did hoopers mis type or did nooker fuclk his clam up. Since no one's answered this yet, and I'm back after a long and fun weekend, it was my mistype. I've updated the claim list with the correct name and with Jean Grey added in: The player list currently as stands with claims and confirms (confirmed town in blue, confirmed scum in red, confirmed 3rd party in orange): Alive ------ 2. KidVermicious - Professor X - No Claimed Power 3. NAF - Cyclops - No Claimed Power 4. Hoopy Frood - No claimed name -Mason/Special 5. mhaye 6. Almost Human (replaces Roosh) - Gambit - No Claimed Power 7. Pollux Oil 8. chucara - Shadowcat - Watcher 9. bufftabby - Multiple Man - No Claimed Power 10. Darth Sensitive 11. peekercpa - Archangel - Miller/Legacy Virus blocker and curer 12. misterblockey - No claimed name - Mason/Special13. diggitcamara - Jean Grey - No Claimed Power 14. Nanook - Threnody - Necromancer 16. hawkeyeop 17. Santo Rugger - Persuasion - Redirector 18. FlyingDeadCowofGOB, Esq. - Longshot - No Claimed Power Dead ------ 21. molefan1981 - Arcade - Inventor - Lynched Day 1 22. Idle Thoughts - Dr. Cecilia Reyes - Protective - Nightkilled Night 1 25. sinjin - Rogue - Power Drainer - Lynched Day 2 20. Pleonast - Emma Frost - Investigator - Nightkilled Night 2 19. Boozahol Squid, PI - Nightcrawler - Backup (Investigator) - Lynched Day 3 23. Rysto - Colossus - Mason/Sacrificial Partially Bulletproof Bodyguard - Nightkilled Night 324. CatinaSuit - Sebastian Shaw - Strongman (Death) - Nightkilled Night 31. Zeriel - Reaper - Role-blocker/Vigilante - Lynched Day 4 15. Greedy Smurf - Cypher - Investigator (Coroner) -Nightkilled Night 4Claimed actions: Night 0: ---------- No actions taken. Day 1: -------- No claims. Night 1: ---------- Nanook raises molefan Rysto protects xxxxSinjin drains KidV, redirected onto IdleSanto redirects Sinjin onto Idle Something kills Idle peekercpa feathers someone Zeriel blocks FCODchucara visits peekercpa, confirms that peekercpa did something and Toad showed up Greedy Smurf autopsies molefan/ArcadeDay 2: -------- Greedy Smurf autopsies Idle/Cecilia ReyesNight 2: ---------- Rysto protects xxxxZeriel blocks Ruggerpeeker is blocked (door jammed) chucara visits Nanook, confirms that Nanook did nothing but was visited by Apocalypse Something kills Pleo Greedy Smurf autopsies Sinjin/RogueDay 3: ---------- Boozy takes up mantle of investigatorGreedy Smurf autopsies Pleo/Emma FrostNight 3: --------- Rysto protects another masonRugger redirects peeker unto himself peeker feathers someone, gets redirected to himself Chucara visits NAF, confirms that NAF did something that night and was visited by Longshot Something targets one of the masons, Rysto dies Something kills CIAS Greedy Smurf autopsies Boozy/NightcrawlerDay 4: -------- No claims Night 4: ---------- Rugger redirects Nanook unto Zeriel Nanook does nothing and does it near Zeriel's body; returns to room to find his door jammed Chucara visits Hoopy. Hoopy did nothing (confirmed) and was visited by no one (confirmed) Day 5: ---------- No claims
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 19, 2008 15:02:51 GMT -5
Mhaye: - You still haven't given any reason for not wanting to name claim in terms relevant to the game. (IRL problems are understandable, but if you had time to post your latest posts, surely you had time to either post your name or a reason not to) Yes, I have. I did not see it until too late to consider it Yesterday, and by the time I was in a position to consider it Today, you had pressure-voted me. I will not now be nameclaiming, on principle. I will revisit the question only if you withdraw the vote. Catch 22. Do this or I will vote a certain way equals bad. I won't do this unless you vote a certain way equals good. Dichotomous at best.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 19, 2008 15:21:25 GMT -5
NETA
And FCS, OSU still sucks.
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Post by bufftabby on Oct 19, 2008 17:11:11 GMT -5
I will revisit the question only if you withdraw the vote. Okay, I do not like this at all. It is what the French call le bullshit. I don't like "vote/unvote this way or I will/won't do something". I should've left my vote where it was. vote MHayeFor his vote record, for his lurking, and for bullying Chucara's vote.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 19, 2008 17:44:30 GMT -5
I asked whether I would know if someone attacked me with Legacy would I get their name.
So nanoodle is in the clear from that angle.
And MHaye do you not see how incredibly wrong headed the wording of your reasoning comes across?
News Flash
Hoover announces that OSU will be their spokesman from here on out.
News Flash
GD I can so see this becoming a theme.
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Darth Sensitive
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Oct 20, 2008 0:29:21 GMT -5
peeker - winner gets the message of his choice in the losers sig for one month?
And it seems nobody is going along the enigma that is the Nanook situation.
WHAT WE KNOW: Nanook is purple. (opening post)
WHAT IS CLAIMED: Nanook claims to raise zombies (old) Santo claims to have redirected Nanook to CiaS (reply 1) but actually Zeriel (r8) Nanook didn't submit his action (r2) Nanook was blocked (r17) Peeker was attacked by Nanook (r69)
Something is rotten in Denmark.
I'm going to:
Vote Peeker[/color]
As a Nanook attack requires lies by both nook and rugger. But Peeker could say that he was attacked without any evidence belying that. But I'm unsure as to why he would do so after the other claims were made. I am perplexed and not entire locked in on my vote.
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Post by bufftabby on Oct 20, 2008 2:07:29 GMT -5
Nice call, Darth. Something strange is going on there for certain. I'm waiting to see some explanations from the involved parties before I do anything rash.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Oct 20, 2008 2:07:50 GMT -5
Peeker was attacked by Nanook (r69) Erhm.. Didn't peeker just say that it wasn't Nanook?
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 20, 2008 6:57:40 GMT -5
Peeker was attacked by Nanook (r69) Erhm.. Didn't peeker just say that it wasn't Nanook? No. He said that the attack didn't have to do with the Legacy virus, so Nanook was merely clear on that front. But Darth makes a good point. We now have conflicting claims for night actions. However, it's possible that no one overtly involved is lying. After all, Mystique was able to take the form of other mutants in the canon, it's possible we have something similar here. Besides, a mechanic like that would be a pro-scum counterbalance to the pro-town aspect a mass name claim gives to our powers that can out character names (e.g. Chucara's role or peeker's ability to see who attacks someone with the legacy virus should he feather someone the same night they are targeted by wielder of Legacy), since they now can out the players who are tied to a character. And seeing as how both Nanook and peeker have fallen under suspicion, it wouldn't be too bad of strategy to attack one under the guise of another.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 20, 2008 8:44:28 GMT -5
I fail to see how the claims are conflicting.
Am I being dense again?
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Darth Sensitive
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Oct 20, 2008 8:49:07 GMT -5
Well, if you redirected peeker, who claimed to have done nothing, onto the already dead zeriel, who also claims to have been blocked, peeker shouldn't be able to have been attacked by Nanook.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 20, 2008 9:09:48 GMT -5
I redirected Nanook, not peeker. We don't know that Nanook was peeker's attacker. In fact, it couldn't have been, since I redirected him. The only explanations are if he somehow had a force field that let him evade my mind control (which doesn't make sense because his PM says he was redirected), or there's an impersonator about (like Hoopy said), or peek is lying. The part I don't understand is, if his PM implicates Nanook, why would he have edited out the actual name but not the descriptor.
I really think you're reaching, Darth.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Oct 20, 2008 9:11:10 GMT -5
What I still don't understand is how Peeker can know he was attacked by Nanook. Is it normal that you know the identify of your attacker?
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Post by Almost Human on Oct 20, 2008 10:13:35 GMT -5
Back after an excellent weekend. Firstly my thoughts on the Peek, Santo, Nanook thing:
Santo redirected Nanook - fact as Nanook turned up purple
Santo says he redirected Nanook to Zeriel
Nanook confirms he was redirected to Zeriel
Peeker says he received a pm saying he was attacked by Threnody (Nanook)
Hoopy says it's possible they could all be telling the truth and someone's going around disguised as another character. It would make sense with Peek and Nanook both under suspicion but I'd have expected it to have been done to other people on previous Days too unless it's a one shot thing or something. Has anyone else had anything similar happen to them? I can't see a reason why they wouldn't have said so earlier but maybe there is one.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 20, 2008 10:25:00 GMT -5
What I still don't understand is how Peeker can know he was attacked by Nanook. Is it normal that you know the identify of your attacker? No. peeker is claiming he was attacked by the zombie mistress. He censored out the name, but the description indicates Threnody, which Nanook has already claimed. I think the reason he censored out the name was because of my typo on the name in the claim list I've been posting. (It's the only thing that makes any sense given that description of the attacker alone implicates Nanook. But then again, I typically expect any explanation of peeker's motivations for what he does to be as clear as mud. It's his style.) So he doesn't know he was attacked by Nanook, but he does know he was attacked by Threnody. However, other events belie this claim. So either somebody is confused, somebody is lying, or as I said earlier, somebody is impersonating Threnody. I'm personally leaning toward the last of those. And on a related note, Mystique has not been name claimed by anyone and assuming the events of last night are exactly as people have said, if she's out there among us, she's unlikely to be town. (Though, she wasn't the only shapeshifter among the mutants in the universe, just the most well known.) And to keep the crazy train of theories going, a power like that would aptly fit a War theme. After all, it's a great ploy for getting town to fight amongst themselves when someone is using our own forms to attack each other. So we could have the four horseman and their powers set up as follows: War: Shapeshifter/Impersonator. Sow discord among town by having them attack each other. Pestilence: Legacy Virus wielder. Wields a disease. Self-explanatory Famine: Role-blocker. Able to blight town-aligned actions. Just as the tradtional horseman of the biblical apocalypse would blight the land. Death: Confirmed in game as CIAS. Strongman. Able to overcome protective powers so that a kill can go through. We've had confirmation of one power through death (the death of Death, actually), and evidence of the other two (Famine and War) through action claims. However, Pestilence hasn't seemed to play much of an impact so far. And we don't know how Death died. Zeriel might have targeted him, but no one's been able to really make a posthumous case against CIAS. It's possible he was hit by Pestilence through a redirect, but no one's claimed that, either. I would think it'd be good information to reveal to town if someone redirected another player on to CIAS at some point. I can't see why a townie would hide it. However, there are no doubt more third parties out there, and scum so far have not been any threat to them, preferring to take out those they think are town instead. If I were a third party, I'd be hesitant to come out with anything I know due to exposure to both town and scum. Right now, I think Town is in the worst shape at this point, while one or more third parties are in the best shape. The good news for us is that eventually scum will have to worry about the third parties or risk losing to them. The bad news is, it might be too late for town at that point. Especially since every time we lynch a 3rd party, we give scum half of a mislynch, especially since at this point they seem content to keep targeting us.
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Post by Almost Human on Oct 20, 2008 10:26:04 GMT -5
The other thing I'm not getting is the MHaye votes. Not saying he's town but I don't really see why he's been picked out as more scummy than everyone else who voted.
The order of votes were:
Chucara, FDr.HoD, mhaye, Santo Rugger Hoopy Bufftabby
I've heard people saying that it's unlike him to vote so precipitously etc so is this the only reason you're suspicious of him above the other voters? I can see why nobody's suspicious of Hoopy as he's a mason and I think Chucara's proved his allignment. But what about the others? Could be that everyone in that list is town and they simply reacted to Zeriel voting for a mason. Could certainly mean that one of that list is scum and jumped on an opportunity to lynch a townmember though I don't necessarily see that player as being MHaye above anyone else.
Either way, with that happening towards the end of the Day it effectively saved Diggit. Whether it was intentional or not I don't know but if it was scum jumping on an easy target then I think Diggit looks a lot more suspicious.
So to stick with my vote of yesterDay
Vote Diggit
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Darth Sensitive
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Oct 20, 2008 10:34:07 GMT -5
I redirected Nanook, not peeker. We don't know that Nanook was peeker's attacker. In fact, it couldn't have been, since I redirected him. The only explanations are if he somehow had a force field that let him evade my mind control (which doesn't make sense because his PM says he was redirected), or there's an impersonator about (like Hoopy said), or peek is lying. The part I don't understand is, if his PM implicates Nanook, why would he have edited out the actual name but not the descriptor. I really think you're reaching, Darth. I mistyped my second time through. I believe that someone is lying, though an impostor is also possible.
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 10:41:48 GMT -5
Sorry I wasn't around, busy weekend. I'm going to try to catch up in one long post, bear with me... The Zeriel rush was weird. It felt like misguided town-on-town violence to me at the time, but there may be data there when combined with the rest of the voting record. I'll try and look at that some point today if I get a chance Can we get with the program or not. DC is scum. Same as a couple of others. Are we just going to dick away our chances? Do you have anything to base this assertion on, other than DC is suspicious of you? Cuz I'll bet if you go back through the game, you'll find alot more players suspicious of you than the number of scum we think we know we have. Statements like the one above help neither Town nor you. Regarding the Mhaye thing - there are some good points brought up there, in the original case, which Mhaye appears to have answered to the best of his ability. The pressure votes are scummy, in my book... you have to be prepared to follow up on them, and then you risk losing a power role who knows their own value better than you do. But they make a great cover for unaccountable votes. Having said that, Mhayes' reaction to those votes looks scummy as hell, when combined with his earlier failure to name-claim. If I remember correctly, Mhaye said he wasn't familiar with the Xmen universe... I can't help but posit that Mhaye has a villians name that he'd rather not claim, and doesn't wanna risk choosing another name. There is one name in the game that I don't see anybody wanting to claim... Mhaye, are you Apocalypse?
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Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 20, 2008 10:57:23 GMT -5
The other thing I'm not getting is the MHaye votes. Not saying he's town but I don't really see why he's been picked out as more scummy than everyone else who voted. The order of votes were: Chucara, FDr.HoD, mhaye, Santo Rugger Hoopy Bufftabby I've heard people saying that it's unlike him to vote so precipitously etc so is this the only reason you're suspicious of him above the other voters? I can see why nobody's suspicious of Hoopy as he's a mason and I think Chucara's proved his allignment. But what about the others? Could be that everyone in that list is town and they simply reacted to Zeriel voting for a mason. Could certainly mean that one of that list is scum and jumped on an opportunity to lynch a townmember though I don't necessarily see that player as being MHaye above anyone else. As I said in my post that laid out my case against MHaye: * Shabby voting record. * Staying under the radar all game * I think at least one scum was on the Z-Wagon --FCOD
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Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 20, 2008 10:58:34 GMT -5
And I'd like to add that I find MHaye's refusal to claim EXTREMELY suspicious, especially since his reason is "because someone told me to."
--FCOD
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Post by bufftabby on Oct 20, 2008 13:14:40 GMT -5
The other thing I'm not getting is the MHaye votes. Not saying he's town but I don't really see why he's been picked out as more scummy than everyone else who voted. From my (re)vote post (5.97) for mhaye: Totally under the radar. Total vote record sucks (least of my points--closer to a data point. Unsubstantiated by other circumstances, not always significant.). Vote bullying. ------------------------------- On the Santo PeekNook scandal, I had not considered the possibility of an impostor, but canon does lend itself to that nicely. So, something's afoot, but no one is necessarily lying, I suppose.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 20, 2008 13:42:10 GMT -5
UATU OFFERS A GENTLE REMINDER THAT THERE ARE CURRENTLY LESS THAN 24 HOURS REMAINING IN THE DAY, WHICH WILL END TOMORROW (TUESDAY) AT 12:00PM EST.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 20, 2008 13:45:24 GMT -5
UATU OFFERS A GENTLE REMINDER THAT THERE ARE CURRENTLY LESS THAN 24 HOURS REMAINING IN THE DAY, WHICH WILL END TOMORROW (TUESDAY) AT 12:00PM EST. Thanks UATU! I think that the case against MHaye stinks. I also don't think that KidV has done anthing or claimed anything to make me change my mind about him from yesterDay. vote KidVThe Kid just pings me as being opportunistic.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Oct 20, 2008 13:52:57 GMT -5
I've been debating on whether I should do this toDay or wait until tomorrow, but I figure I should get this out there now so I'm going to go ahead and full role-claim. I bet you've all been waiting for this.
Night 1, obviously, I investigated peeker.
Night 2 I investigated bufftabby.
Night 3 I investigated NAF.
Night 4 I investigated diggit.
So there you have it. Peeker's town, so is buffy. NAF's a Third-Party player. Not sure if we should abandon the Mhaye train for NAF, sinc if Mhaye's scum, it would be better to lynch him toDay. Me personally, I'm getting a real stubborn townie vibe from him. I don't think scum would draw this much attention to themselves for such a poor reason.
Sorry this is coming so late in the Day but I've really been debating whether or not I should have held off on the name claim for another Day.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 20, 2008 14:02:07 GMT -5
Interesting. Based upon the color in that PM I'd think you were PFK yourself. However, the information you provide could be invaluable to the Town. I'm thinking maybe we should lynch NAF today as a way of confirming your investigation accuracy. Has NAF made a claim yet? I couldn't find one.
Since I'm suspicious of him anyway, I could definitely get behind a lynch toDay. What does everyone else think?
--FCOD
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 14:02:50 GMT -5
UATU OFFERS A GENTLE REMINDER THAT THERE ARE CURRENTLY LESS THAN 24 HOURS REMAINING IN THE DAY, WHICH WILL END TOMORROW (TUESDAY) AT 12:00PM EST. Thanks UATU! I think that the case against MHaye stinks. I also don't think that KidV has done anthing or claimed anything to make me change my mind about him from yesterDay. vote KidVThe Kid just pings me as being opportunistic. I wondered if you were going to bring that up and attempt to actually, you know, make a case, or if you were going to try and pretend it never happened. You've done neither. Congratulations on surprising me. Whats wrong with the case against Mhaye? I'm not sold yet, but I'm seriously considering voting for him, and as the only one to object against it, I'd really like to hear why say you think what he's doing isn't scummy. Of course, this means you're going to have to actually substantiate an opinion... you've been trying to get random shit to stick somewhere all game, and nobody has really called you on, with the exception of a late bandwagon that never really gained steam. Well, I'm calling you out. I don't think you're playing town.
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