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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 19:52:26 GMT -5
Jeebus, NAF, Roosh much?
There is one Horseman on a list of:
And one horseman on a list of
... and this means I'm scum? How's that again? You obviously haven't played much Mastermind.
Sorry man, you lied once, this mistake shows you lying again. And nobody likes your "big list of scum tells" because they aren't. That post is one giant smudge, full of projections and hand waving. No, I'm fine with my vote right where it is.
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 19:56:48 GMT -5
Wait, what? Have you guys even read his lists? There's one scum on the first list, and one scum on the second, the only player on both lists is Peeker, ergo I'm scum? I'm literally flabbergasted. This is such a blatant lie!
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 19:58:16 GMT -5
And he's known this since Night Two, and hasn't said anything? Yeah, he's really playing for Town, for all right.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 20, 2008 20:00:19 GMT -5
I'm goiing to stir in the information you have left out. Jeebus, NAF, Roosh much? There is one Horseman on a list of: And one horseman on a list of ... and this means I'm scum? How's that again? You obviously haven't played much Mastermind. If NAF is telling the truth, then only one of the second four is a Horseman, and we know that was CIAS. Consequently Peeker is not a Horseman. So who is the Horseman on the first list? Not Peeker, not Zeriel, and not Hoopy. Who does that leave, bub?
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Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 20, 2008 20:09:39 GMT -5
LOL! This is what is known as "grasping at straws."
List two contains one scum, and we know it's CIAS, since he's dead. So, peeker cannot be scum. List one contains peeker (not scum), zeriel (dead, not scum), you, and hoopy (mason, not scum).
I'll let you figure out the rest.
On preview, I see MHaye has already explained it.
--FCOD
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 20:13:58 GMT -5
I'm pretty much Pleo's other half - we're both half-speed investigators.
Night One, Rysto is Colossus. Night Two, Hoopy is XXXX (withheld unless he'd like me to reveal it). Night Three, FCOD is Longshot. Night Four, I decided to broadband Apocalypse - he's 3rd party.
Thats why I queried you, Mhaye - I suspected you for Apocalypse based on your reluctance to name-claim, and I'm not sure I buy the Wolverine claim. Your timing (waiting until this heat on me came out of nowhere) is a bit sketchy.
Thats all I got, guys - NAF has lied, NAF is lying. Lynch him.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 20, 2008 20:15:15 GMT -5
Well, I am going to have to vote KidV.
And if he comes up scum thenDC rides the lightning manana, in my book.
Human nature tends to have individuals focus on themselves. It really felt like the two of them were tag teaming.
And now that two other folks have me town and knowing that I am the Legacy protector (claimed, at least) my night shelf life is about the same as home made bread. Of course, WIFOM for the scummers.
And OSU doesn't really suck. I just hope they get byyyttche slapped this weekend. No hard feelings Darth.
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 20:17:11 GMT -5
I'm goiing to stir in the information you have left out. Jeebus, NAF, Roosh much? There is one Horseman on a list of: And one horseman on a list of ... and this means I'm scum? How's that again? You obviously haven't played much Mastermind. If NAF is telling the truth, then only one of the second four is a Horseman, and we know that was CIAS. Consequently Peeker is not a Horseman. So who is the Horseman on the first list? Not Peeker, not Zeriel, and not Hoopy. Who does that leave, bub? Ah. OK, maybe I haven't played enough Mastermind. He's still lying.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 20, 2008 20:20:24 GMT -5
On that subject. What am I doing wrong here? I wrote a whole post outlining the dripping scum tells coming off of KidV, and I knew what to look for because I knew he was scum, and no one gave it the time of day. Even when I know beyond a shadow of doubt that I am right I can't convince anyone to vote with me. I wasn't opposed to KidV, but I did want to start putting pressure on people who I don't think were helping the townie cause much. With the exception of a few players, this day has been fairly low on the activity scale. I've said it before (as you may recall when I was commenting on Cecilvania as a spoiled observor), town loses when they become complacent and rely on too few people to do too much work. I don't think you were doing anything wrong. Your post was well written and well supported. The problem is our activity level has sucked the past two Days. It's part of how we were able to lynch Zeriel so quickly (and I fully concede my role in the debacle and the boozy one as well). No one here is a perfect player, and no one can win the game on their own. The more town participates, the more scum are forced to participate and the easier it is to trap them. Batman worked well because there was high activity among town. It kept the scum on their toes throughout. And, IIRC, town was fairly underpowered when story broke down the overall balance later. But we won because we all put effort into it.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 20, 2008 20:29:55 GMT -5
Go ahead and reveal it. Like I said, scum would be hard pressed to figure out which of us masons is the bigger threat to them simply based on canon. Both mason characters have similar powers in canon and we've seen that story's been playing the powers fairly loose. So go ahead. I'd like to see you throw out my name. If you fail, you're a liar. If you refuse, you're making excuses to stay alive. If you succeed, well, we may lynch you anyway, but if you come up scum and you know my name, clearly scum have a way of determining our names. But you have chance to survive (make your time) if you don't say my name now. And I'm asking town as one of their confirmed to make sure you swing should you not.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 20, 2008 20:30:00 GMT -5
Wait, what? Have you guys even read his lists? There's one scum on the first list, and one scum on the second, the only player on both lists is Peeker, ergo I'm scum? I'm literally flabbergasted. This is such a blatant lie! You must have sucked at Mastermind.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 20, 2008 20:30:33 GMT -5
NETA: That should have said "you have no chance to survive...."
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 20:47:44 GMT -5
Go ahead and reveal it. Like I said, scum would be hard pressed to figure out which of us masons is the bigger threat to them simply based on canon. Both mason characters have similar powers in canon and we've seen that story's been playing the powers fairly loose. So go ahead. I'd like to see you throw out my name. If you fail, you're a liar. If you refuse, you're making excuses to stay alive. If you succeed, well, we may lynch you anyway, but if you come up scum and you know my name, clearly scum have a way of determining our names. But you have chance to survive (make your time) if you don't say my name now. And I'm asking town as one of their confirmed to make sure you swing should you not. I don't have anything else, I didn't start investigating alignments until last night. I'm completely flummoxed. NAF and I are the only ones that know he's lying, of course, but I'm floored that ya'll are going to take the word of the guy you already know is a liar. Ask him why he didn't claim the correct name (answer, because he doesn't want anybody to see anti-town Night Actions associated with him). Ask him why, if he's been playing for town since the start, he didn't reveal my alleged scumminess immediately (answer, because he just made all this up). He's lying, and this is his last ditch attempt to save himself. This all only came out once Pollux fingered him, what does that tell you guys, for gods sake? You know he's a third-party, you now he's already lied once, and he's blatantly not playing for Town. For gods sake, lynch NAF, and let Pollux confirm me overNight. I've got names for nearly everybody in the game now, I can start confirming alignments if I'm alive. We're approaching endgame, and if Town keeps jumping at silliness like this, like we have all game, we're going to lose this miserably.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 20, 2008 20:53:44 GMT -5
On that subject. What am I doing wrong here? I wrote a whole post outlining the dripping scum tells coming off of KidV, and I knew what to look for because I knew he was scum, and no one gave it the time of day. Even when I know beyond a shadow of doubt that I am right I can't convince anyone to vote with me. I wasn't opposed to KidV, but I did want to start putting pressure on people who I don't think were helping the townie cause much. With the exception of a few players, this day has been fairly low on the activity scale. I've said it before (as you may recall when I was commenting on Cecilvania as a spoiled observor), town loses when they become complacent and rely on too few people to do too much work. I don't think you were doing anything wrong. Your post was well written and well supported. The problem is our activity level has sucked the past two Days. It's part of how we were able to lynch Zeriel so quickly (and I fully concede my role in the debacle and the boozy one as well). No one here is a perfect player, and no one can win the game on their own. The more town participates, the more scum are forced to participate and the easier it is to trap them. Batman worked well because there was high activity among town. It kept the scum on their toes throughout. And, IIRC, town was fairly underpowered when story broke down the overall balance later. But we won because we all put effort into it. [On soapboard] Ah but hoopers therein lies the rub. I post a lot just to see reactions. Some is thoughtful, most not so much. Some is supposed to generate thought and some just to entertain. I mean santo picked up the Little Orphan Annie reference from Christmas Story. That's the kind of fighting ignorance that I am all about. But there is a certain group that suggests that this is not the "correct" way to play this game. Fuck 'em is all I can say. I agree with you that discussion is what allows town to detect subtleties that give us a chance. [/Off soapboard]
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 20, 2008 21:09:04 GMT -5
Woo whoo! Wolverine! He was always my favorite.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 20, 2008 21:13:54 GMT -5
You are correct. I am Mikhail Rasputin. Collossus was my brother. (Rysto's breadcrumb on that was when he responded to me with "Amen, Brother"). And that makes blockey Magik. However, that being said, it doesn't really confirm you. After all, you had a 50% shot at getting it right to begin with since blockey already said we were the Rasputins (there were, of course, only three of us that were prominent in the Marvel Universe) and the breadcrumb posts were already brought to everyone's attention. But I'll think about this for a bit. I may change my vote. But we now have two pro-town acting detectives. Personally, if I'm going to lynch one of you, it's more apt to be you at this point. Do you want to give us someone other than "NAF" as a candidate. I've already said I find both darth and hawkeyeop suspicious. Maybe you can start there.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 20, 2008 21:21:29 GMT -5
Otie Dotie.
If KidV doesn't turn up equine then NAF is lying, again.
If NAF is not lying then we've got another scum and two more confirmed not scum in a pool of three. With me, PO and buff and the masons that would be a significant voting block.
At this point in the game it sounds like a decent bet.
Course that comes close to ridding ourselves of this freaking horse outbreak. We still would have to take care of John Anderson, if there is one or more, however.
And no, I am not giving an explanation for that. Do a Google and learn about politics.
Meh, my two cents.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 20, 2008 21:23:47 GMT -5
Okay, down to business.
KidV, your role really seems like a tool that would be given to the scum. Why, you ask? Well, because in a non-vanilla game, it makes sense that scum would need an investigator of sorts. And since you already know the alignments of four other players, it would make sense that the alignment reveal would be connected to the role instead of the player. Makes sense to me, anyway.
Also, NAF has narrowed a pool down to 3 that contains scum. While you, KidV have told us... nothing we don't already know. Sure, you claim Apoco is 3rd party, but a) I don't believe it and b) it makes a good cover for your buddies.
A bit of analysis to follow.
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 21:29:32 GMT -5
You are correct. I am Mikhail Rasputin. Collossus was my brother. (Rysto's breadcrumb on that was when he responded to me with "Amen, Brother"). And that makes blockey Magik. However, that being said, it doesn't really confirm you. After all, you had a 50% shot at getting it right to begin with since blockey already said we were the Rasputins (there were, of course, only three of us that were prominent in the Marvel Universe) and the breadcrumb posts were already brought to everyone's attention. Understood. But it's all I've got. Well, yeah, if you're going to lynch a detective, I'm less confirmed than Pollux is, but why are you talking about lynching him? I don't understand why you're setting up that dichotomy. As I see it, the choice is between myself and NAF right now (Mhaye ought to be in there too). And you didn't answer me, why would you rather lynch a claimed and confirmable detective over an admitted PFK thats already been caught out in two lies? I'd rather not talk about players right now. I'll set some notes down before Dusk if I have no choice, but I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. I'd rather talk about me and NAF right now, I hope you understand.
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Post by Hawkmod on Oct 20, 2008 21:38:10 GMT -5
I have to say this wasn't the type of attack I was expecting after returning from being gone for three days. I know the vote was to get me to post (which I highly encourage confirmed town members to do), but your arguments here are ridiculous.
I disagree with your premise and your conclusion. In fact I don't think I've posted a lot. If I recall correctly I've posted one today, and that was an attack on Mhaye. I argued against him before any other votes were cast. I believe I was also the first to cast suspicion upon NAF. This isn't say my arguments are accurate, but I've casted a wider net then you give me credit for.
That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with the safe targets. Most often in this the most simplest explanation is the correct one. Sure their could be elaborate scum plans at work, but most of the time the scum are playing day to day just to stay alive. Peek and Nanook are suspicious to me. I don't see what they have done to lessen the suspicious. They don't become less likely to be scum with each town member we lynch. We have this pattern of treating the lynch runner-up as confirmed town, a policy that I don't support.
Not doing what everyone else is doing is playing safe? It isn't really difficult to name claim. There is probably one name out there that would be considered almost guaranteed scum, and NAF has just claimed it. You say there are many less unknowns, but I can't say I agree. Right at this point there is one confirmed scum, and once confirmed PFK. The rest of the confirmed unknowns are pro-town, not exactly the people I'm concerned with. If you can give me a compelling reason to claim I will, but I haven't seen one yet.
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 21:39:50 GMT -5
Okay, down to business. KidV, your role really seems like a tool that would be given to the scum. Why, you ask? Well, because in a non-vanilla game, it makes sense that scum would need an investigator of sorts. And since you already know the alignments of four other players, it would make sense that the alignment reveal would be connected to the role instead of the player. Makes sense to me, anyway. Also, NAF has narrowed a pool down to 3 that contains scum. While you, KidV have told us... nothing we don't already know. Sure, you claim Apoco is 3rd party, but a) I don't believe it and b) it makes a good cover for your buddies. A bit of analysis to follow. Near as I can tell, my role is almost identical to Pleo's. He wasn't scum. And I understand that I don't have much info to provide - I investigate at half-speed, and most everything I developed has been revealed through other channels. I had Hoopys' name, which was not public info, and I've confirmed that FCOD isn't lying about his rolename. Other than that, all I've got is potential at this point. I still don't know why we're giving any creedence to NAFs claim at all, could somebody please address that point? As a Town, we've been making last-minute jumps at nothing all game, and we've got a bunch of dead Townies to show for it (molefan, boozy, zeriel, have we all forgotten them?). Poorly-thought out, last-minute lynches are the bane of Town, and it's hurting us badly. If we don't turn this around, it's going to hurt us again Today. So think this through, please. I'm going to set this out as if I'm the rest of you, and don't know what I know. You can lynch me, and run the risk of losing another detective, for... what? Even if I turn up scum, it proves nothing about NAF. He's an admitted 3rd party thats lied about his rolename and his motivations, and only brought out these accusations with the noose around his own neck. Or, you can lynch NAF, and run NO RISK (he's admitted to being a 3rd party), and confirm me overnight, and go into endgame with another confirmed Townie.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 20, 2008 21:44:36 GMT -5
Last action for today. Unvote KidV
I still think you will ultimately get my vote but am willing to hear your closing argument with an open mind.
And why in the world do these types of discussions happen right up against the bell?
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 21:44:44 GMT -5
I have to say this wasn't the type of attack I was expecting after returning from being gone for three days. I know the vote was to get me to post (which I highly encourage confirmed town members to do), but your arguments here are ridiculous. I disagree with your premise and your conclusion. In fact I don't think I've posted a lot. If I recall correctly I've posted one today, and that was an attack on Mhaye. I argued against him before any other votes were cast. I believe I was also the first to cast suspicion upon NAF. This isn't say my arguments are accurate, but I've casted a wider net then you give me credit for. That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with the safe targets. Most often in this the most simplest explanation is the correct one. Sure their could be elaborate scum plans at work, but most of the time the scum are playing day to day just to stay alive. Peek and Nanook are suspicious to me. I don't see what they have done to lessen the suspicious. They don't become less likely to be scum with each town member we lynch. We have this pattern of treating the lynch runner-up as confirmed town, a policy that I don't support. Not doing what everyone else is doing is playing safe? It isn't really difficult to name claim. There is probably one name out there that would be considered almost guaranteed scum, and NAF has just claimed it. You say there are many less unknowns, but I can't say I agree. Right at this point there is one confirmed scum, and once confirmed PFK. The rest of the confirmed unknowns are pro-town, not exactly the people I'm concerned with. If you can give me a compelling reason to claim I will, but I haven't seen one yet. Couple points in this I'd like to address. Unless you think Pollux is lying, Peek should not be suspicious to you at this point. Regarding the name claim - we've got protown roles with abilities that hinge on rolenames. Refusing to name-claim at this point, with most of the Town out of the closet, is not pro-Town. I, for one, view your reluctance to claim in the same light as Mhayes. Take that for what it's worth, I guess.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 20, 2008 21:45:48 GMT -5
For the purposes of this list, green are people who have been cleared from being Horsemen ACCORDING TO NAF. Yellow are people NAF SAYS are 1/3 Horsemen, and RED is Kid V. I've taken the liberty of moving the Masons to the bottom, basically removing them from the list, as well as coloring myself purple (just for fun).
2. KidVermicious - Professor X - No Claimed Power 3. NAF - Cyclops - No Claimed Power/3rd Party 5. mhaye 6. Almost Human (replaces Roosh) - Gambit - No Claimed Power 7. Pollux Oil - Toad - 100% accurate/50% miss chance Alignment cop 8. chucara - Shadowcat - Watcher 9. bufftabby - Multiple Man - No Claimed Power 10. Darth Sensitive 11. peekercpa - Archangel - Miller/Legacy Virus blocker and curer 13. diggitcamara - Jean Grey - No Claimed Power 14. Nanook - Threnody - Necromancer 16. hawkeyeop 17. Santo Rugger - Persuasion - Redirector 18. FlyingDeadCowofGOB, Esq. - Longshot - No Claimed Power
4. Hoopy Frood - No claimed name -Mason/Special 12. misterblockey - No claimed name - Mason/Special
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Post by Hawkmod on Oct 20, 2008 21:47:13 GMT -5
Now to the more immediate issue at hand.
I think Kid is likely anti-town. NAF is almost certainly anti-town. My default is to go with the guaranteed option, but I want to ponder this a bit more. I really don't like keeping people not on our side alive any longer then we have to.
Kid, if you are likely to be lynched, I highly encourage you not to hold anything back. Even if you are wrongly strung up, the information could be useful later on.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 20, 2008 21:48:52 GMT -5
Whoops, posted to soon. This means that the players in black also have a 1/3 chance of being Horsemen (again, according to NAF). I made myself purple, but feel free to count me in that group. I just don't like adding myself to my own lists.
Okay, next up I'm going to add Pollux's claimed investigations. What I'm hoping to do is find either an overlap or inconsistency, so here we go...
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Post by Hawkmod on Oct 20, 2008 21:51:06 GMT -5
Woo whoo! Wolverine! He was always my favorite. Not enough to include him in your claimed list apparently.
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 21:54:49 GMT -5
Last action for today. Unvote KidVI still think you will ultimately get my vote but am willing to hear your closing argument with an open mind. And why in the world do these types of discussions happen right up against the bell? I appreciate that, Peek. I think I've made about all the arguement I can make, is there anything else I can answer for you? (I bet you're loving this, btw... )
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 20, 2008 21:56:25 GMT -5
Now to the more immediate issue at hand. I think Kid is likely anti-town. NAF is almost certainly anti-town. My default is to go with the guaranteed option, but I want to ponder this a bit more. I really don't like keeping people not on our side alive any longer then we have to. Kid, if you are likely to be lynched, I highly encourage you not to hold anything back. Even if you are wrongly strung up, the information could be useful later on. Agreed. I just have bigger fish to fry right now.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 20, 2008 21:57:14 GMT -5
Woo whoo! Wolverine! He was always my favorite. Not enough to include him in your claimed list apparently. Shut your face! I totally ripped that from Hoopy, I didn't change any suffixes. I also realized that I said something really stupid about KidV trying to claim Apoco's alignment was 3rd party when we already knew that, too. Guess it hadn't sunk in yet. But, ya know, come to think of it... NAF called out KidV, but he didn't really tell us anything either. A lot of what he rehashed are things we already knew or had a pretty good idea of. I'm going to have to do some thinking, though, because all he did, and this wasn't apparent until I posted the list, was make two groups of three players each that he claims have one scum each. Something tells me there's more to his role than he's claiming, but I think a KidV lynch gives us the most info. I really, really think we need to revisit his claim in a couple Days, if he's still around.
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