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Post by capybara on Aug 11, 2007 14:59:39 GMT -5
@ JSexton : If you really think that, be my guest. Better than wasting a lynch on me Tomorrow. I wold like a full role claim from you. Please list every player on your bingo board, and their relation to each other. If he's telling the truth I really really don't think that's a good idea. I haven't thought through exactly why this seems off, but, for example, If he's telling the truth but you kill Mal anyway, the scum have a map of who not to kill to put his bringing back the doctor or other town out of possibility. And it might be something that we'd want Idle's input on, re: is that something that can be said.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 11, 2007 15:23:01 GMT -5
@ JSexton : If you really think that, be my guest. Better than wasting a lynch on me Tomorrow. I wold like a full role claim from you. Please list every player on your bingo board, and their relation to each other. I'm not so sure that's a good idea. If he's scum, it doesn't mean diddly. In fact, he could deliberately distribute players on his board in a way that would make people the scum might want dead (like reads on the doctor or the geniuses) in spots that would look like it would help him activate the power and put his fellow scum in places that would certainly not lead to it possibly being a tie breaker. However if he's telling the truth, then we've just told the scum how to avoid activating his power.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 11, 2007 15:27:35 GMT -5
I wold like a full role claim from you. Please list every player on your bingo board, and their relation to each other. If he's telling the truth I really really don't think that's a good idea. I haven't thought through exactly why this seems off, but, for example, If he's telling the truth but you kill Mal anyway, the scum have a map of who not to kill to put his bringing back the doctor or other town out of possibility. And it might be something that we'd want Idle's input on, re: is that something that can be said. Oops... didn't see there was another page. [Insert Headsmack smiley] Didn't mean to repeat you there.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Aug 11, 2007 15:43:34 GMT -5
JSexton
The claim is drafted but in view of the concern expressed by Capybara and Blaster Master (which is why I didn't list it in the first place) I'd like to know if you really require the full list.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Aug 11, 2007 15:48:34 GMT -5
Got a break from the music fest, quick thought dump: I think JSexton is going against the spirit of the rules. He should kill Malacandra like he said he was going to, and not be allowed by Idle Thoughts to do otherwise. I think mhays role claim is bunk. Ok. Shouldn't take too long. Yeah, "shouldn't take too long" to figure out what bingo board would best benefit the scum, and influence the town's votes during the day. I'm not buying it for a second.
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Post by JSexton on Aug 11, 2007 15:51:55 GMT -5
Here's the thing. Based on your fullclaim, I'm either targeting you or Blaster. Up to you, but it's going to be decided today.
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Post by JSexton on Aug 11, 2007 15:54:54 GMT -5
The rules say "When you're dead, you're dead." I'm not dead yet, as the mod hasn't said I am. For all you know there's a role that protects a player from a lynch, and they targeted me.
Until the mod tells me I'm dead, talking and strategizing is not against the letter or spirit of the law.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Aug 11, 2007 15:56:43 GMT -5
Role name ; Chia Bingo Manager.
It is a pro town role. I win or lose with the Town.
When I was given the role, I was asked to construct either (i) a 5*4 grid with the names of all the players on and one blank cell, in any position I wished, or (ii) submit a total of nine lists of players. Three lists to contain five separate names, five lists to contain four and one to contain three. No single list to contain any player more than once. I could omit my own name if I chose the latter.
To mimic a 5*4 board would require 4 rows of 5 and 5 rows of 4. This pattern allowed for one (and only one) blank in each set.
I chose the latter as being easier to construct quickly.
Players were chosen by rolling a d20 that I had to hand and jotting the numbers down, and converted to player names (using the master player list) when complete. I rerolled any 19 or 20 that came up (as well as any dupliated numbers on the same line) and made sure that I had every other player number at least once before substituting names for numbers. (20 was the blank cell, and 19 was myself).
1.Blaster Master, GreedySmurf, Nesta, DiggitCamara, Hal Briston* 2.Roosh, Storyteller0910, HockeyMonkey*, Cowgirl*, Dotchan 3.Jsexton, Kat, DiggitCamara, Hal Briston*, dnooman 4.Malacandra, Blaster Master, Kat*, Storyteller0910, <blank> 5.Pygmy Rugger, Capybara, HockeyMonkey*, MadTheSwine 6.Jsexton, Kat*, Nesta, Dotchan 7.HockeyMonkey*, GreedySmurf, Malacandra, Cowgirl 8.dnooman, Hal Briston*, Capybara, Storyteller0910 9.HockeyMonkey*, Blaster Master, DrainBead* <blank>
*Dead at time of writing.
When any one line is completed I gain my choice out of the following two powers.
Immunity for the rest of the game. A one-time power to bring one single player back from the dead.
If I die before completing a row, the power is lost forever. (This was another reason for choosing the lines over the grid).
I think I have to choose which option immediately; if I choose resurrection I can “store” that for later use.
That's about it.
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Post by Malacandra on Aug 11, 2007 16:28:13 GMT -5
The rules say "When you're dead, you're dead." I'm not dead yet, as the mod hasn't said I am. For all you know there's a role that protects a player from a lynch, and they targeted me. Yeah, and I can't prove there isn't an invisible inaudible odourless intangible dragon in my garage, either.
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Post by JSexton on Aug 11, 2007 16:36:08 GMT -5
The rules say "When you're dead, you're dead." I'm not dead yet, as the mod hasn't said I am. For all you know there's a role that protects a player from a lynch, and they targeted me. Yeah, and I can't prove there isn't an invisible inaudible odourless intangible dragon in my garage, either. I'm not saying that's likely, I'm saying that until the mod speaks, we don't know what's going on with 100% certainty.
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Post by JSexton on Aug 11, 2007 16:39:20 GMT -5
those <blank>s don' make any sense in the context of what you've claimed...
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Post by storyteller0910 on Aug 11, 2007 16:41:03 GMT -5
posting fom iPhone... Limited typing ability... Mhaye claim very fishy... Would have been so much more useful earlier today... If blaster is town, and doctor protects mhaye, no chance to block night kill if mhaye is scum... Basically, scum would get a three for one trade. We should let jsexton kill based on his judgment alone.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Aug 11, 2007 16:49:20 GMT -5
A 5*4 grid has 20 spaces. The game has nineteen players. These lines are an equivalent to a 5*4 grid with one empty space.
I decided to show the <blank> entries in the row lists to clarify the relationship between the lists and the grid.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 11, 2007 17:07:58 GMT -5
I chose the latter as being easier to construct quickly. This doesn't make sense to me. If you're making a 4x5 grid, how is that harder or take longer to construct than simply taking all the players, plugging them in random.org, and throwing it on the grid. If anything the process you describe you went through of rolling a d20, rerolling in some cases, and translating sounds a lot more complicated. These lists seem somewhat broken to me. If you're eliminating yourself, you lose a block. And if these 4 rows of 5 and 5 rows of four are supposed to mimic a 4x5 grid, then each player should show up exactly twice... once in one of the rows of 5 and once in one of the rows of 4. Looking at these lists, I notice I show up 3 times, so does Storyteller, and Hockey Monkey shows up 4 times; meanwhile Roosh, Pygmy Rugger, MadTheSwine, and DrainBead show up only once. I'm unsure what that means exactly (though I find it odd that the one scum we caught, and my #1 suspect going into the tie both only show up once) but if you show up as scum, I'm sure they'll be very interesting lists to analyze. See this part seems unclear. The way you're wording it, it looks like every time a line is completed, you gain a power. This to me would simply mean, take the immunity the first time, then wait for the second to resurrect, and again on the third and resurrect. IOW, it looks like it could be completely broken.
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Post by capybara on Aug 11, 2007 17:13:35 GMT -5
MHaye-- if you're telling the truth, posting that was not the best thing to do, probably, and I have no idea why you let them pressure you into it. You've basically rolled over and revealed not only your role but undone everything useful that it could accomplish, even while JSexton might be completely bullshitting this crazy townie role as a fishing expedition. If I were you I'd, you know, stop talking.
If you're not telling the truth you're batshit insane and very creative and hats off to you, you scummy bastard.
Pygmy-- if you're town and don't know what's going on, that "chicken! Bawk bawk!" was the scummiest thing I've seen you do all game. I understand JSexton pressuring MHaye, but you're not in the same situation. This is more than role fishing.
JSexton-- what happened to the snuffing Mal thing? If you're town, telling the truth, and this is a scum-led effort to derail you, it sure worked. They or may not have gotten a town role to out himself, and convinced you to kill him. Or convinced you to kill some other town guy (If Blaster's town and MHaye is lying).
Pandora's steamer trunk.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Aug 11, 2007 17:19:59 GMT -5
I chose the latter as being easier to construct quickly. This doesn't make sense to me. If you're making a 4x5 grid, how is that harder or take longer to construct than simply taking all the players, plugging them in random.org, and throwing it on the grid. If anything the process you describe you went through of rolling a d20, rerolling in some cases, and translating sounds a lot more complicated. I didn't want to spend ages balancing out a grid. And when I want to randomly select something my first instinct is to reach for a polyhedron. The only rule with the lists was that no player occur twice in any given list. There was no requirement to balance out the lists between the rows of 5 and the rows of 4. or it would have been quicker to go for the grid. This is where I want the *banghead* smiley. I can only ever get one power. Otherwise yes, it would be completely and utterly broken.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 11, 2007 17:26:45 GMT -5
For the record, I'm disinclined to believe mhaye's claim, too, but right now I'm just trying to make sense of the grid. Mhaye, this board has a table function. Would you mind trying to put your grid into table format? JSexton, if you really are the Crazy Townie, make your own judgement about who to kill. Just don't kill our other doctor. Or me, for that matter.
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 11, 2007 20:37:19 GMT -5
Here's my thoughts, and yes this is a bit of meta-gaming, but what the hell... The purpose of password protecting the forbidden forum is so they can talk more openly about specific knowledge, particularly Idle can share his thoughts without having to be secretive and the scum can discuss their partners and such. Further, we know from the quote above that the password is PMed upon death. Hence, anyone who could be resurrected has likely already had access to the forbidden thread. Thus, any such resurrection could potentially be game breaking, and since Idle specifically password protected the forbidden forum, I'd also expect he'd be aware of this. I think Idle would have thought ahead of time and figured which players might be resurrected (power roles) and he would have denied them access to the dead zone ....I hope anyway.
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 11, 2007 20:41:52 GMT -5
mhaye, are you allowed to use your power as soon as a line is completed?
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Post by dnooman on Aug 12, 2007 1:28:34 GMT -5
Wow. Just, wow. It seems that attending a pre-season football game was less interesting than the drama going on in here.
Given that the Day should have ended a looong time ago, things are not happening in the way that we were told they would happen. We weren't told about a hidden role, yet were allowed to vote on the "final" one.
I smell a rat. I smell an insane rat trying to get info. I'm not going to provide any info to the scum that might make their job any easier. All that we are doing at this point is making more info available to the scum. I don't want to point fingers until things are clarified by IT.
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Post by dnooman on Aug 12, 2007 5:39:56 GMT -5
I can't resist. Jsexton, we'll know your true role soon enough, if you're town choose wisely, if not, die liar! mhaye, I doubt you strongly. I see some sort of scum endgame scenario that hinges on us making a mistake or two in order for a scum win to happen. Clearly, most of this rests on the shoulders of our GO.
mhaye, scum are supposed to lie. What you have proposed seems like a lie. A sneaky lie at that. Your so called "power" can only be activated if we force the guy that claims to be the crazy townie to choose the guy that you specify. Does that sound rational in the least to anyone? You propose a situation that necessitates a lynching of a person that most people think might be town.
If you were telling the truth, and resurrected Hockey, you are safe from lynching because your power has been used, and you are confirmed town. If you were lying, and any scum dies as a result of his actions (assuming he's telling the truth) you could say "you didn't kill the guy I needed in order to get us back the doctor". How convenient.
If Jsexton is telling the truth, kills MB, and there's no Hockey the next day, then we lynch you obviously. That still results in a double townie death in a day. Add the night kill and lynching you , and the scum are still ahead by one. Plus a a night kill the next night.
What? Did you miss that? Let me reiterate it.
If Jsexton is telling the truth, kills MB, and there's no Hockey the next day, then we lynch you obviously. That still results in a double townie death in a day. Add the night kill and lynching you , and the scum are still ahead by one. Plus a a night kill the next night.
If Jsexton is what he says, he might just kill mhaye. If he's town, we lost one. If he's scum, we uncovered a cover up plot. I don't understand Mal griping about a discussion that might have saved him were Jsexton telling the truth.
I think I feel the icy hand of death on my shoulder tonight. My top list of suspects are Mal, pygmy, mhaye, Diggit, Mad. This takes into account that Jsexton is dead.
I really, really hate giving my opinion when it seems clear to me that the scum are just on an info gathering hunt, but if I die tonight, it will never see the light of day.
The scum are playing well it seems. The only way that all of this could benefit town is if..........well there is NO way that the town can have the best of this. If Jsexton is telling the truth, we lose a townie. If he's lying we killed a scum, but don't have the collateral damage necessary for mhaye to work his magic. His theory goes unproven, he stays safe, and we might consider BLam as a lynch in order to get the Doc back.
If Jsexton is telling the truth and so is mhaye (I'll put my own face punching on Youtube for sure if that's the case), we lose a townie (Jsex) an unknown (BlaM) and mhaye (townie in this case) because our protecting doctor would be protecting our "Seer" therapist.
If we could get back hockey our protecting doc would have to protect her by necessity, every night. Scum can gamble on the odds there. Especially because we might have sacrificed up to three townies to get her back, not worth the risk IMO.
What are the risks if Jsexton targets mhaye? If Jsexton is lying, none, dead scum. If Jsexton is telling the truth and mhaye is lying, none, dead scum. If Jsexton is telling the truth and mhaye is telling the truth, scum still have no idea who is being protected. This results in two dead townies, but not three, it also keeps the scum guessing as to who is being protected. This gives us info on other scum's actions after Jsex was "killed" as well.
I think that the whole "hidden role" "I can bring back the most valued player" crap is a ploy. If Jsex is lying, nobody else gets killed, the doc can choose to protect mhaye or not, if Jsex is telling the truth, we see his results, get the night kill info, and go from there.
mhaye is a marked man, if he's telling the truth scum want him dead, if he's lying, we want him dead. Kill his ass Jsexton.
Oh, and Mal, if you want a "clean win" you would also object to mhaye's claim after the day was "over", not just the fact that Jsexton asked if there were any reason he should not kill you, since that was his plan had things gone as they should have.
Damn, I think I just signed my own death warrant. It's worth it though if we don't get suckered.
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 12, 2007 9:54:18 GMT -5
First, I don't get why a scum like would come out and falsely role claim in this circumstance,meaning mhaye,not Jsex.If it is false, I think it is a horrible choice. If he is lying,then we trade BlaM (who would be town in this circumstance) for mhaye and mal would have to be the next target for a Day lynch,cus mhaye stepped in to save him. I think it is way more likely Jsexton is lying and trying to get as much info as he can befrore he dies,which if thats the case,he has done an excellent job of it,so far.
If Jsexton is telling the truth, I don't see how he can take the chance of killing mhaye.I gotta believe as soon as mhaye's line is complete he can activate his power at once, so the Doc wont need to protect him at Night.
Maybe they are both lying and are both scum...Jsexton dies,giving strength to mhayes claim.Obviously,a sane townie know the scum won't kill BlaM who is scum as well.Of course,I see holes in this scenario(as I know many of you will),namely mhayes list will eventually catch up to him and will be forced at some point to ante up or die.
I think,if Jsex is speaking the truth, he should kill BlaM and we force mhaye to make good on his claim.Which again,unless mhaye says otherwise, I gotta believe it is immediate and Dr Hock rejoins us at once.
Worse case I can see is a 2-1 trade which isn't bad.
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Post by Malacandra on Aug 12, 2007 12:19:22 GMT -5
Hi dnooman. Sorry, I thought I'd made it clear that I found mhaye's claim objectionable too. In my view if we were playing fair then he'd have had no reason to make any claims as the (presumed) Crazy Townie would have died, activated his power (presumably against me) but without any discussion - and, as it is, mhaye gets to pipe up under circumstances which are unusually favourable to him.
...Assuming this wacko out-of-left-field secret role really exists, which I see no reason why IT would confirm or deny. It's a secret role, yesno?
..Or mhaye also considers JS's post-death wheeling and dealing grossly unfair, and is volunteering to martyr himself to make the point.
...Or mhaye's secret power is to resurrect one person in the event of his own death (but I assume in that case he'd just plain say so... unless he loses his power in the event of a truthful role-claim).
This is some seriously weird shit, but I still feel it should not have arisen.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Aug 12, 2007 16:27:55 GMT -5
Okay, well, I'm here. Finally. Been out with my fiancee the last few days and it's been nothing but a perfect blast. Sorry folks, but she's wayyy more important, ahahaha.
Anyway, JSexton got it a long time ago nine to two.
And he's the CT.
Sorry for no flavor this time around but I figured you guys waited long enough so I'm just typing it this time.
JSexton, if you'll please PM me a person to take with you to death, I'll start Night as soon as you do.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Aug 12, 2007 16:28:44 GMT -5
The rules say "When you're dead, you're dead." I'm not dead yet, as the mod hasn't said I am. For all you know there's a role that protects a player from a lynch, and they targeted me. Until the mod tells me I'm dead, talking and strategizing is not against the letter or spirit of the law. Very true. But anyway, your time draws nigh now. So a PM if you please.
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 12, 2007 16:31:16 GMT -5
mhaye, are you allowed to use your power as soon as a line is completed? Did mhaye ever answer this? I think it is important to get an answer before you decide Jsexton.
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 12, 2007 16:38:01 GMT -5
mhaye, are you allowed to use your power as soon as a line is completed? Did mhaye ever answer this? I think it is important to get an answer before you decide Jsexton. And since meta-gaming is running a little bit higher than usual this game...I have been sitting here nearly all day and mhaye has been here at least three different times..FWIW. Why aren't you answering this question mhaye?
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Post by capybara on Aug 12, 2007 16:50:18 GMT -5
And he's the CT. . . . JSexton, if you'll please PM me a person to take with you to death, I'll start Night as soon as you do. Well, there's a verification for JSexton. Just sayin'. And no info provided about MHaye-- I assume this is purposeful-- Idle is not being generous with the extra information. Fair enough. Choose well, JS.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Aug 12, 2007 17:57:20 GMT -5
Dum de doooo.
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Post by JSexton on Aug 12, 2007 18:57:37 GMT -5
Done. Good luck, town.
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