Day One

[peekercpa]

Ok. Coming out of a triptoth, tiptroflan, triptophlan, trippin turk, triforce, triptophlan - ah to heck with it, turkey and mashers and sweet taters and gravy and casseroles from every living person on the globe followed up with pies of every persuasion induced coma.

I don't get the chuc persecution at all. As one who has had to eat a lot of previously stated words I just am not seeing it. Just feels like a townie posting off the top of their head. As stated previously, not something that any scum I have encountered would do.

Kat wants us to "faux" vote. Whaddupwidat?

shaggymole has continued down the line of his forebearers.

ah continues down the dead end street that involves lurking.

Unvote KidV

Vote Total Lost

Whoo girls/boys, now it gets interesting.

[shaggy]

Nov 29, 2008 20:37:29 GMT -5 Chucara said:

Like I said in my "correction" post, I wasn't clear in my head - or my posts - when I typed that. However, you're taking things a little out of context here. I never said lynching town is good.. I said that voting based on suspicions is better than using random.org, as we're risking lynching town no matter what and option A would at least provide information if we did, where option B would leave us with nothing.

Also, 5 was not a reference to the number of scum.. I tried to explain it in my previous post.. It was just a random number of how many people we might gain information on by voting based on suspicions.. It might as well have been 2 or 8. Again, I'm sorry that I didn't make sense.

Thank you, that deos seem like a reasonable explanation to clear things up. I was a bit confused but it does make a bit more sence. your pinging has reduced to a bare blip on the map. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

Nov 30, 2008 1:27:43 GMT -5 Zeriel said:

Frankly, this is more suspicious to me than chucara's perfectly clearly phrased comment. This is one hell of a smudge that doesn't follow at all from what chucara actually posted.

If you don't understand why almost all of the time a day lynch of a vanilla is better than a no-lynch, then I don't know how I can explain it any more--a no-lynch gives you not much info, a lynch of anyone adds data to the voting patterns. Voting patterns, and posting patterns, are how town catches scum--power roles help but they're no substitute for solid analysis.

I am confused when did i say we should do a no-lynch? as far as I know i never said let's do a no-lynch. I did say if we suspect someone or know someone is town i do not see the advantage of lynching them. which is what it looked like he was saying. He has explained himself and it is ok now. But I think we should place our vote on whom we are most inclined to think are eigther SCUM or doing anti-town posting and therefore dirrectly or indirrectly helping the SCUM. How does that translate into lets do no-lynch? I do not know where you got the idea that I think a no-lynch is better than a lynch. As I said you are saying that I said something I never did. Or atleast that is the way your post comes across.

[peekercpa]

Well this is kind of Duh?

If we know someone is town then obviously they don't swing. At this point the only way you have of knowing that someone is town, outside a day detector, is if you are scum. Otherwise it's all a bunch of guess work. Just gotta keep pluggin' along.

And I am going to tell you a story.

Once upon a time there was ... Oh to heck with it.

Is this the longest day or what?

[shaggy]

Nov 30, 2008 8:02:57 GMT -5 peekercpa said:

Well this is kind of Duh?

If we know someone is town then obviously they don't swing. At this point the only way you have of knowing that someone is town, outside a day detector, is if you are scum. Otherwise it's all a bunch of guess work. Just gotta keep pluggin' along.

And I am going to tell you a story.

Once upon a time there was ... Oh to heck with it.

Is this the longest day or what?

And that is my point, thank you peek . I thought he had said we should swing for someone we suspect as town, he clarafied that he did not mean it that way and it is ok. But that does not mean we should not swing at all, just swing at the poeple we think is not pro-town. Obviously we do not know for sure, but we can still suspect. We should listen to our gut feelings and hope it works out.

[Total Ullz]

Nov 30, 2008 6:22:43 GMT -5 peekercpa said:

Ok. Coming out of a triptoth, tiptroflan, triptophlan, trippin turk, triforce, triptophlan - ah to heck with it, turkey and mashers and sweet taters and gravy and casseroles from every living person on the globe followed up with pies of every persuasion induced coma.

I don't get the chuc persecution at all. As one who has had to eat a lot of previously stated words I just am not seeing it. Just feels like a townie posting off the top of their head. As stated previously, not something that any scum I have encountered would do.

Kat wants us to "faux" vote. Whaddupwidat?

shaggymole has continued down the line of his forebearers.

ah continues down the dead end street that involves lurking.

Unvote KidV

Vote Total Lost

Whoo girls/boys, now it gets interesting.

Just for fun or is there a reason for this vote?

[Almost Human]

Nov 30, 2008 6:22:43 GMT -5 peekercpa said:

Ok. Coming out of a triptoth, tiptroflan, triptophlan, trippin turk, triforce, triptophlan - ah to heck with it, turkey and mashers and sweet taters and gravy and casseroles from every living person on the globe followed up with pies of every persuasion induced coma.

I don't get the chuc persecution at all. As one who has had to eat a lot of previously stated words I just am not seeing it. Just feels like a townie posting off the top of their head. As stated previously, not something that any scum I have encountered would do.

Kat wants us to "faux" vote. Whaddupwidat?

shaggymole has continued down the line of his forebearers.

ah continues down the dead end street that involves lurking.

Unvote KidV

Vote Total Lost

Whoo girls/boys, now it gets interesting.

Dude, I'm not the lurker monitor - has someone spiked your marmalade sandwiches? (reference to Paddington Bear for those not in the know)

Though I do have to agree that my suspicions of chuc are lessening with his explanations.

TL I'm almost always suspicious of so I've been trying to read her posts and refrain from hitting bold and blue. I do think she's genuinely trying to be helpful with her lurker posts - it's something she believes in quite strongly so I don't see it as making noise in her case.

shaggy is pinging my arse off but that's partly because I can't understand half of his posts and then the other half are perfectly written and intelligable. The posts that don't make sense sound scummy as hell and the others sound completely reasonable. If he was consistent I'd have a better idea but he isn't.

Anyway, that was a long-winded way of saying I may well move my vote from chuc to shaggy if I can figure him out a bit better and make a reasonable argument.

[special]

As I said before, I do find shaggy's play suspicious.

He seems to be reaching out at everyone and attacking them. And he seems to be spreading confusion, which isn't normally what I've seen from him. And if this is a sign of his growth as a player, then Yikes!

That said, I'm also suspicious of Almost Human. It's difficult to put my finger on it. A couple of games past on FB, the LOTR game, I picked her out based on some sublte changes in her posting style. This time, it almost seems as if she's really putting forth an effort to not do those things. :-) Now, what does that mean? Almost nothing, alas. I'm grasping at straws here. And what troubles me is that my suspicions are only rising for those players I've already played with.

[sinjin]

Just a couple of general thoughts on Sunday morning.

Peeker, I don't mind the weird shit, but at least be accurate. It is Cookies that wanted the faux vote deadline? not Kat.

I'm glad I'm not the only one can't figure out what Shaggy is saying. I'm going to go back and reread his posts all at once and see if I can make some sense of what he is saying. The lack of paragraphs, caps and punctuation is not helping. And come on guy, the coding is not that hard. See all the little buttons up there. All you have to do is highlight the text you want coding around and hit the button. Preview is your friend.

Lurkers, get your ass in here, if you don't want to play sub out, this is becoming bullshit.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I can't remember what game it was, but at least one faux vote idea (with different color schemes and non-Mod vote-counts) did actually function with some degree of participation for a few Days. Whether or not it ultimately contributed to a successful town win, I don't recall.

But the town can certainly rest easier under your vigilant watch, Rugger. Protecting them from good ideas that are a challenge to implement. And I did miss the in your previous post.

There seems to be a lot of snark flying around this game, but Mr. Ed's snarky post has the special classification of being "me too snark", which is just...odd. I kinda feel like I'm back in 4th grade again, with Peeker and Mr. Ed in the back of the room pointing and laughing at the other kids in class, but only one of them is actually coming up with the wise-cracks.

It may just be a playing style thing since we've not played together before (that I know of), but when combined with his earlier plays involving Molefan and Story, it is enough for my vote.

Vote. Mr. Special Ed[/color]

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Peeker, I've proposed a self-imposed deadline for votes and justification during prolonged Days, like this one we're sitting in the middle of in which lots of people are contributing exactly jack shit.

What's up with arguing against it, but even more importantly, with putting me on a short list of "suspects" for proposing it?

[Chucara]

In the interest of voting early, I've just finished rereading as well as I have time for right now. I've come to the conclusion that while some people have made some mistakes, none of those mistakes are necessarily pro-scum IMO. Therefore, I've elected to vote for someone who I feel seems to be hiding. I've chosen to overlook people who has stated that they are away, and therefore my vote ends up on:

vote Hoopy Frood
is the lucky lurker. His activity level seems much lower than in the last game, and I can't find anywhere where he explained why.

[Santo Rugger]

Nov 30, 2008 11:43:39 GMT -5 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies said:

I can't remember what game it was, but at least one faux vote idea (with different color schemes and non-Mod vote-counts) did actually function with some degree of participation for a few Days. Whether or not it ultimately contributed to a successful town win, I don't recall.

But the town can certainly rest easier under your vigilant watch, Rugger. Protecting them from good ideas that are a challenge to implement. And I did miss the in your previous post.

Nov 30, 2008 11:56:31 GMT -5 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies said:

Peeker, I've proposed a self-imposed deadline for votes and justification during prolonged Days, like this one we're sitting in the middle of in which lots of people are contributing exactly jack shit.

What's up with arguing against it, but even more importantly, with putting me on a short list of "suspects" for proposing it?

Not to speak for the pecker, but perhaps part of the reason you're on his short list is because you keep flip flopping. First you say faux vote. Then you say you meant an early deadline. Then the example you give of an early deadline working is when we used faux votes. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the game that used non-mod sanctioned vote counts one that had a Vig, and that's what the other colored votes are for?

I know you directed the second comment at pecker, but I'm not arguing against it. It's just that you keep going back and forth, and even you don't know what you really want or mean (because if you did, you'd be able to give a solid example of a time when we were able to make early voting work, instead of falling back on faux votes that were in a completely different situation).

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by, "did actually function with some degree of participation for a few Days". Please explain? I see what you're getting at; things are slow over the holiday weekend (and sinjin seems to be getting a bit worked up over it, too). We've addressed this problem time and time again, especially at end game. I'm not really sure how to fix it, but I agree that something needs to be done. I'm going to drop it for now, but like I said, it just feels like you're trying to spout pro town things that sound good in theory, but can never be implemented in actuality.

[Santo Rugger]

Nov 30, 2008 13:08:13 GMT -5 Chucara said:

...is the lucky lurker. His activity level seems much lower than in the last game, and I can't find anywhere where he explained why.

[American]Dude, it's Thanksgiving weekend. Arguably the second biggest holiday of the year, and undebatably so if you count New Years as part of Christmas. Hoopy was posting last week, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he'll be around this coming week, too.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

The principle is the same regardless of what you call it. A fake deadline or a fake vote. People putting down votes and ideas at a time other than as prescribed as required by the Mod(s). This is not rocket science.

[sinjin]

Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm home so I thought everyone else should be too. I'm just not going to be posting much anymore until all the happy travelers are back home, free from the lovely company of their multitude of relatives, including Uncle Jethro, Auntie Sadie and the little snot-nosed kiddies, safe and snug in front of their computers amongst their friends who want to lynch them.

[peekercpa]

You keep missing an "e" plunger

[Chucara]

Nov 30, 2008 15:01:34 GMT -5 Santo Rugger said:

Nov 30, 2008 13:08:13 GMT -5 Chucara said:

...is the lucky lurker. His activity level seems much lower than in the last game, and I can't find anywhere where he explained why.

[American]Dude, it's Thanksgiving weekend. Arguably the second biggest holiday of the year, and undebatably so if you count New Years as part of Christmas. Hoopy was posting last week, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he'll be around this coming week, too.

Hmm.. suppose you have a point, but that pretty much excludes the "lynch a lurker" plan, as I suppose all Americans are excused.. Now that I reread Hoopy's posts, I can see that they were all made 24-27, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

unvote Hoopy Frood

However, this leaves me clueless as to who to vote for. I'll look into that again tomorrow.. No one is *really* pinging my scumdar, but then again, maybe no one will on Day One.

[Høøpy Frøød]

Nov 30, 2008 13:08:13 GMT -5 Chucara said:

In the interest of voting early, I've just finished rereading as well as I have time for right now. I've come to the conclusion that while some people have made some mistakes, none of those mistakes are necessarily pro-scum IMO. Therefore, I've elected to vote for someone who I feel seems to be hiding. I've chosen to overlook people who has stated that they are away, and therefore my vote ends up on:

vote Hoopy Frood
is the lucky lurker. His activity level seems much lower than in the last game, and I can't find anywhere where he explained why.

*Points to Rugger's post above.*

Yeah, I was descended upon by my parents, my older sister, her husband, their son, my younger sister, and her two sons during Thanksgiving. So that means I had eight family members in my home. Two of which are 7 years old, and one of whom is a 6 year old with autism.

So mafia was a bit low on the list of priorities.

But I plan to reread through the Day and get a vote in either tonight or sometime tomorrow.

[MiteyMouse]

I have been rereading and I have to agree that I'm finding Shaggy's posting confusing...and I'm married to him. He seems to be able to put together a solid arguement but, this is only after prompting because of a very confusing one. Now that being said, he does get a bit confusing when he's excited...IRL. If I didn't know him, I'd quite happily place my vote on him now.

TL...thank you for explaining the retorical part of the lurking quote. Before that I was highly suspicious of you and now it it just a suspicious.

[sinjin]

Ok, I said I wasn't going to post til later, I lied. Can you FB players tell me how you pick out your lurker to vote for? Chucara and totallost I'm looking at you.

Chucara singled out Hoopy as the lucky lurker, even though he has > 10 content posts according to totallost. TL singled out a number of people with higher "content posts" than those she chose to ignore. Is there some reason that squido or mmouse or DBI are not on your lynch the lurker list? How about pedescribe, still zero content posts? Yet he came in yesterday and said he would reread and post. This selectivity is not sitting well with me.

[Gir!]

Nov 30, 2008 6:22:43 GMT -5 peekercpa said:

Kat wants us to "faux" vote. Whaddupwidat?

Do not! And I'm at a loss at how someone could confuse "Kat" and "ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies". It's not like we even have similar avatars.

As to the "faux vote"/"early deadline" thing, the concept itself is harmless (if futile), but I do find it odd that Cookies mislabeled the concept as "faux vote" when she meant to suggest creating an early vote deadline. I don't see a pro-scum or anti-town motive to mis-labeling it, I just think it's odd. And confusing.

[special]

Chucara is a FB player?

I'm going to
vote shaggy[/color=blue]
for now.
BUt I am concerned about some of the people lurking. It's confusing though with the holiday. pedescribe did post about being away until today. NAF is the only other one who mentioned be away currently. Are there people who usually only post from work or school that may not have that access right now?

[special]

Nov 30, 2008 20:48:53 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

Chucara is a FB player?

I'm going to
vote shaggy

[/color=blue]
for now.
BUt I am concerned about some of the people lurking. It's confusing though with the holiday. pedescribe did post about being away until today. NAF is the only other one who mentioned be away currently. Are there people who usually only post from work or school that may not have that access right now?[/quote]


well poopy, I thought I did that correctly
vote shaggy

[Idle Thoughts]

Yeah, he's in the group, at least....although I don't know if he's in the current game.
I know he's signed up on the list to HOST a game there.

[Idle Thoughts]

Check the key in the group description, by the way, SPECIAL ED.

[Gir!]

Nov 30, 2008 20:48:53 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

BUt I am concerned about some of the people lurking. It's confusing though with the holiday. pedescribe did post about being away until today. NAF is the only other one who mentioned be away currently. Are there people who usually only post from work or school that may not have that access right now?

You might try checking out the Going to be away thread.

The following people posted that they would be away or have less than usual access during the Thanksgiving weekend:
pedescribe, Kat, zeriel (until yesterday, the 29th), sinjin (also back today per her notice), Mr Special Ed (Thursday and Friday only), Santo, NAF and Idle Thoughts (until Saturday/yesterday).

[special]

Nov 30, 2008 21:06:48 GMT -5 Gir! said:

Nov 30, 2008 20:48:53 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

BUt I am concerned about some of the people lurking. It's confusing though with the holiday. pedescribe did post about being away until today. NAF is the only other one who mentioned be away currently. Are there people who usually only post from work or school that may not have that access right now?

You might try checking out the Going to be away thread.

The following people posted that they would be away or have less than usual access during the Thanksgiving weekend:
pedescribe, Kat, zeriel (until yesterday, the 29th), sinjin (also back today per her notice), Mr Special Ed (Thursday and Friday only), Santo, NAF and Idle Thoughts (until Saturday/yesterday).

I did check it out, but, for what I thought were obvious reasons, I left out the people who are back, mostly because they are back and therefore not gone anymore.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Nov 30, 2008 18:33:54 GMT -5 sinjin said:

Ok, I said I wasn't going to post til later, I lied. Can you FB players tell me how you pick out your lurker to vote for? Chucara and totallost I'm looking at you.

Chucara singled out Hoopy as the lucky lurker, even though he has > 10 content posts according to totallost. TL singled out a number of people with higher "content posts" than those she chose to ignore. Is there some reason that squido or mmouse or DBI are not on your lynch the lurker list? How about pedescribe, still zero content posts? Yet he came in yesterday and said he would reread and post. This selectivity is not sitting well with me.

Okay, I'm back for good this time. Starting Friday last week, I took a vacation to a house without internet, without any voluntary transportation, until today. I had 2 one-and-a-half hour periods (approx.) with the internet due to luck, and decided to check the game. Unfortunatly, I was unable to catch up fully and post something insightful in the time alloted to me. Note that I said that before my vacation in the going to be away thread. Also note that I posted nowhere else on the internet since last Friday. Now then:

Nov 28, 2008 15:38:42 GMT -5 peekercpa said:

You know what this feels like to me? A bunch of townie on townie nonsense. The scum are probably sitting back licking their collective chops at this point. At most this feels like one bad guy in the most recent exchanges and most likely zero. The real bad guys are hanging back letting us townies do their work for them. Ah, Day one.

This post pretty much sums up most of my thoughts. Day ones are incredibly difficult to sift through withought proper hindsight and further voting records, and we can only do our best. ...uh...
And it's been more difficult than usual, because of the high (admittedly humorous) fluff content and the fact that the two big 'scandals' both seem more or less irrelavent to me.

With regards to molefan: he was defenilty putting the snark knob on 'high heat' throughout the spoilerd discussion of Marvel. I can totally see that not going away. Mhaye's words ring true now as much as ever: focusing on past grudges in current games only poison the well, so I guess it's a good thing he subbed out (though I suppose if he's scum...). I don't think that there is any evidence to be deciphered from it, though.

As for FCOD, he's admitted as much that he hasn't got a vanilla PM. At this point, however, this tells us very little. If there turn out to be a very high ratio of vanilla to power townies it might indict him, but beyond that, I don't see it coming into play. In fact, I think it was bad play to point it out in such an odd fashion. A direct accusation, followed by a direct rebuttal, might have been forgotten by scum due to the long day (after all, the scum are players too). If they hadn't pointed it out, FCOD would have been barely a blip to them. But because of the way it was handled, he's sure to factor into all of their nightly decisions. Not much we can do about it now, just something to file away for future games.

Now then, my contribution, as promised. About mass claims--Idle says he's handled them in such a way that it would be neutral for town at best. In Batman, the anti-reveal role was a single player. In T2, the anti-reveal role was a single player. In the pre-game thread, I suggested this tactic. Thus we can assume, I think, safely, that it is not down to a player or players to unbalance a mass claim (especially since both those games were won by town with a mass claim). Most likely, it is simply the closed nature of the game, with uncertainties about relative power values, 'sides' versus sides, and just how many scum there are that will keep us from coasting on a mass claim. This means, also, that we will not know if it is safe to mass claim later on. I'm not saying we should take it off the table entirley, but it should definitly stay in our back pocket until things are much clearer. That's pretty much what's happening now, so...good.

As for a vote, I'll try to get one in tommorow night. Mondays are my busy days, and it'll take some more reading before I can find a suitable candidate.

[Chucara]

Nov 30, 2008 18:33:54 GMT -5 sinjin said:

Ok, I said I wasn't going to post til later, I lied. Can you FB players tell me how you pick out your lurker to vote for? Chucara and totallost I'm looking at you.

Chucara singled out Hoopy as the lucky lurker, even though he has > 10 content posts according to totallost. TL singled out a number of people with higher "content posts" than those she chose to ignore. Is there some reason that squido or mmouse or DBI are not on your lynch the lurker list? How about pedescribe, still zero content posts? Yet he came in yesterday and said he would reread and post. This selectivity is not sitting well with me.

I didn't use Totallost's list. I did a quick reread of the game, and noted who did something that might be considered a risk if they were scum. That means content posts by totallost's definition don't matter to me.. only things that cause controversy. Hoopy was pretty active last game and it just struck me as odd that he was missing here.. I had completely forgotten about Thanksgiving, which explains his absense.

[Total Ullz]

Nov 30, 2008 18:33:54 GMT -5 sinjin said:

Ok, I said I wasn't going to post til later, I lied. Can you FB players tell me how you pick out your lurker to vote for? Chucara and totallost I'm looking at you.

TL singled out a number of people with higher "content posts" than those she chose to ignore.

Is there some reason that squido or mmouse or DBI are not on your lynch the lurker list? How about pedescribe, still zero content posts? Yet he came in yesterday and said he would reread and post. This selectivity is not sitting well with me.

I don't understand the "singled out" point. I did single out MiteyM and voted for her. I made it very clear that it was a lurker-vote and when I later removed it I tried (but don't think I made it clear) to say that I felt the lurker-voting-theory didn't really work that well.

A lurker is a person (IMO) that is clearly around but don't make a real contribution to the game. You ask why I didn't vote DBI, Squid or Mmouse. But I didn't see them posting "fluff" the same way MiteyM did (past tense).