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Day 1
Jan 25, 2009 22:24:21 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 25, 2009 22:24:21 GMT -5
Ahem... Also totally geeky enough to be good on the color for brawl..
prick
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Day 1
Jan 25, 2009 22:25:21 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 25, 2009 22:25:21 GMT -5
Oh I also find that pedescribe's final choice for all three questions was exactly what I would have suggested anyway. Also this game started very fast. ennnnnnnnnnh, ok I'm also out of also's.
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Parzival
Mome Rath
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Day 1
Jan 25, 2009 22:41:17 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Jan 25, 2009 22:41:17 GMT -5
I just want to say that this game crashed my computer. I was about to post and I got a BSOD. :pout
I'm in agreement with the purple questions and I'm pretty sure they've been decided now.
As for how to votes, I'm against the idea that we must always vote for only people we find scummy. Nonetheless all votes need to be backed up with a reason. I don't think it'll be that easy for scum to manipulate votes and get away with it.
But I have a question about how the Borda count proceeds: Must every post with a vote include the full 3-vote count? This applies to unvotes, too.
Can we selectively change (or even remove) a vote as long as we end up with three ranked votes by the end of the day?
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 1
Jan 25, 2009 22:45:50 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Jan 25, 2009 22:45:50 GMT -5
I just want to say that this game crashed my computer. I was about to post and I got a BSOD. :pout I'm in agreement with the purple questions and I'm pretty sure they've been decided now. As for how to votes, I'm against the idea that we must always vote for only people we find scummy. Nonetheless all votes need to be backed up with a reason. I don't think it'll be that easy for scum to manipulate votes and get away with it. But I have a question about how the Borda count proceeds: Must every post with a vote include the full 3-vote count? This applies to unvotes, too.
Can we selectively change (or even remove) a vote as long as we end up with three ranked votes by the end of the day?
No. And yes.
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Merestil Haye
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[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 3:38:14 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jan 26, 2009 3:38:14 GMT -5
I found, in the last game Pedescribe ran, that sometimes "gaming" the vote was necessary. I do agree, though, that one should be prepared to defend one's choices.
It's noteworthy that no-one blinked an eye about the concept of filler votes; voting for two people you don't find suspicious is the simplest kind of gaming your vote (that is, voting for people you are not suspicious of just to get your first vote to count). So no-one minds if that happens.
= = =
In the Terminator game, one could vote in any way one liked. In order for the vote to count three players must be voted for, but the votes could be placed in three separate posts, and in any order.
So I could, for example, say in my first post of a Day that I was "pinged" a little by DarkCookies Overnight, and vote
3. DarkCookies
without placing a vote 1 and 2.
Later I could notice that Dotchan was talking about "my scum kills" and decide that was as blatant an admission as any I had ever heard, and vote
1. Dotchan.
My vote would not count until I added someone in second position. I could find someone new for the second vote, or bump DarkCookies up and put the new candidate in third, or even vote for Santo Rugger (because he's always scum, even when he's not) in first place and drop Dot to second.
There's plenty of flexibility in the system, but this comes at a cost in overheating brains.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 4:11:41 GMT -5
Post by harmless little bunny on Jan 26, 2009 4:11:41 GMT -5
The way I see it you can 'game' your vote but just know that some might be suspicious if you end up lynching a good guy. You had better have a good reason if something like that happens. If you end up getting a bad guy though, you are the hero of the day and we will each pour you a drink. I won't pay for it though. ;-)
and speaking of overheating brains... I think I will have a drink myself. Who is the bartender? I need some new recipes.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 4:15:00 GMT -5
Post by harmless little bunny on Jan 26, 2009 4:15:00 GMT -5
I have been using the quick reply block and didn't realize there were smileys and stuff to use. Sorry about that.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 7:28:20 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 26, 2009 7:28:20 GMT -5
I have been using the quick reply block and didn't realize there were smileys and stuff to use. Sorry about that. No need to apologize for not using smileys. Smileys should only be used sparingly anyway. BTW, since it appears we're going to do the 5/2 thing, when does Day 1 officially end?
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 7:31:17 GMT -5
Post by harmless little bunny on Jan 26, 2009 7:31:17 GMT -5
No need to apologize for not using smileys. Smileys should only be used sparingly anyway. BTW, since it appears we're going to do the 5/2 thing, when does Day 1 officially end?I wasn't actually apologizing for using smileys. I was apologizing for doing this : ;-) When I could have done this: Guess is doesn't really matter though.
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 8:03:27 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Jan 26, 2009 8:03:27 GMT -5
I have been using the quick reply block and didn't realize there were smileys and stuff to use. Sorry about that. No need to apologize for not using smileys. Smileys should only be used sparingly anyway. BTW, since it appears we're going to do the 5/2 thing, when does Day 1 officially end?Friday, 1oclock EST.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 9:03:18 GMT -5
Post by Zeriel on Jan 26, 2009 9:03:18 GMT -5
I unduly affected your MOM'S gamestate.
Late to the party, friends in town over the weekend.
Sin and Peek, don't worry about the color too much-- SSBB's story mode was pretty incomprehensible to me and I beat the damn game.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 9:24:42 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Jan 26, 2009 9:24:42 GMT -5
Announcement: I have put the current Day's ending time up on the game's wiki page, and will continue to do so with future Days/Nights. You can get to the game's wiki page through the link in my signature, or this link: Game Wiki Page
Monday Morning Vote Count: Votes: Player | Vote 1 | Vote 2 | Vote 3 | peekercpa | Nanook | Hal Briston | crazypunker |
Totals: Votee | Total | Voters | Nanook | 3 | peekercpa 1st | Hal Briston | 2 | peekercpa 2nd | crazypunker | 1 | peekercpa 3rd |
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Merestil Haye
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 9:40:48 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jan 26, 2009 9:40:48 GMT -5
FCoD, I think you've put the wrong time in the Guam timezone.
It's actually 4am, not 4pm.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 10:07:44 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Jan 26, 2009 10:07:44 GMT -5
FCoD, I think you've put the wrong time in the Guam timezone. It's actually 4am, not 4pm. Good catch! On that note, if I don't have someone's time zone up there, tell me and I'll add it. --FCOD
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 10:33:57 GMT -5
Post by harmless little bunny on Jan 26, 2009 10:33:57 GMT -5
4am? I guess I have to decide in advance who I think are scum.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 14:31:21 GMT -5
Post by brokentree on Jan 26, 2009 14:31:21 GMT -5
RE:4am? I guess I have to decide in advance who I think are scum.
I think that by Friday you should already have voted or have a clue as to where to place your votes.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 14:48:11 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on Jan 26, 2009 14:48:11 GMT -5
Ok, back from the weekend away. Unfortuantely, I'm home with a sick Littlest Briston today, so my participation is a bit...off. I only have web access upstairs in my office, so I just C&P'd the text of the thread into a Word doc and then brought my laptop downstairs to read. So, let's tag off things as I get to them... First, even though it's already been decided, here's how I would've voted: "A) 5/2, B) Rysto's plan, and C) Yeah, what the hell" Next up: And I have to caveat my vote just a touch. It seems that as town we get a heck of a lot of town on town violence just because folks are talking. That certainly does not make a lurker scum or a heavy poster town. But I have found in Nannok and Hal's case that they do show up with some rather insightful analysis if prodded. And it is typically insightful, to me at least. And GD this is not a stinking snuggle. I'm not quite sure what to make of this. As far as I'm aware, there are two examples of games where I had very low participation, and two examples where I put out analysis that picked up scum. Those two fields overlapped in the ongoing Evil Dead game, so I have to wonder if peeker isn't seeing a trend in this simply because there is a recent example. Either way, there was never a case where I lurked until prodded -- there was only lurking until I whatever outside influence was keeping me from the game wasn't there anymore. Couple of other things for the record... --I've completely effing lost by the color. That said, I'm not going to concern myself about either. I had fun in Firefly, and still haven't seen any of that either (although I now know River Tam is pretty damn cool). --I hope this whole "HAL Labs" thing doesn't cause any undue confusion. -- peeker, please don't think it any kind of OMGUS when I vote for you. I'll totally be because of the sheep joke.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 14:52:39 GMT -5
Post by harmless little bunny on Jan 26, 2009 14:52:39 GMT -5
RE:4am? I guess I have to decide in advance who I think are scum. I think that by Friday you should already have voted or have a clue as to where to place your votes. I have no idea whether people share information or change votes at the end of the day because I have never played. Since this is my first game, I don't know if some new information usually comes up at the end or not.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 15:04:24 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Jan 26, 2009 15:04:24 GMT -5
I have no idea whether people share information or change votes at the end of the day because I have never played. Since this is my first game, I don't know if some new information usually comes up at the end or not. Information will likely show up shortly (a few hours, sometimes minutes) before the end of the day. You won't be the only player not around. Don't worry about it.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 15:16:25 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Jan 26, 2009 15:16:25 GMT -5
I'm going to outline my thoughts on mass claims and name claims right now since I think the discussion is inevitable and I'd rather get it out of the way now while there is nothing else on the table.
Mass Claim: (everyone reveals Name, role, alignment) I think we all know that a mass claim on Day One is foolish. I'm not saying more unless someone disagrees.
Mass Name Claim: (everyone reveals Name only) Name Claims are more tricky because there is a level of obfuscation that keeps roles insulated from a name claim. My personal opinion is that a Name Claim is useless, that is, we can't lynch someone (or not lynch someone) based on a name alone. One might argue that having the names right away locks scum into picking a name and sticking with it, but I would argue that we have no way of knowing that scum would need to (or even want to) lie on this point. Finally, we don't know what the impostor's win condition is. For all we know someone needs to kill a specific list of characters and a name claim would be ridiculously helpful to him and detrimental to the Town.
Eventually someone will be the lynch leader and will Name Claim alone. My feeling is we should not unvote someone simply because of a name claim. A traditionally "good" character could still be scum. In fact, the game setup pretty much mandates that some scum (maybe even all) have traditionally "good" names.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 15:31:15 GMT -5
Post by roxis on Jan 26, 2009 15:31:15 GMT -5
I'm opposed to a claim of any kind unless it's to save your own arse. Besides, based on pede's sample PM, I gather that he doesn't like Roy, who is a traditionally good character. Now, I could see him making Roy scum just because he doesn't like the character.
And I realize he's not in this game, even though he should be since he was the best character in Melee.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 15:31:23 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 26, 2009 15:31:23 GMT -5
Mass Name Claim: (everyone reveals Name only) Name Claims are more tricky because there is a level of obfuscation that keeps roles insulated from a name claim. My personal opinion is that a Name Claim is useless, that is, we can't lynch someone (or not lynch someone) based on a name alone. One might argue that having the names right away locks scum into picking a name and sticking with it, but I would argue that we have no way of knowing that scum would need to (or even want to) lie on this point. Finally, we don't know what the impostor's win condition is. For all we know someone needs to kill a specific list of characters and a name claim would be ridiculously helpful to him and detrimental to the Town. Batman was an interesting case in that the Mass Name Claim outed the Joker, but if it weren't for the mason trickery, Hal might have been able to win as Riddler before he got whacked by Scum. Since the only ones with fake name claims were scum. So I don't think a mass name claim really buys us anything without very good reason to do so, and I don't see us having one at this point. (Mass claim is pretty much the same.) Agreed. I'm not sure what a name claim is really going to buy anyone barring extenuating circumstances, like a confirmed in-game mechanic tied to a name (e.g. MiteyMouse's claim of Mallow in SMB, and she did it before she came under pressure).
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 15:32:29 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 26, 2009 15:32:29 GMT -5
I'm opposed to a claim of any kind unless it's to save your own arse. Why is that?
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 15:35:37 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jan 26, 2009 15:35:37 GMT -5
I'm opposed to a claim of any kind unless it's to save your own arse. Why is that? If memory serves, there's a player on facebook that claims every time, no matter what. I don't agree with a "no-claim" policy... if a player has reason to believe that they've got info the Town needs, they should balance the odds, and claim if appropriate. Town can then balance the odds, and lynch if appropriate.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 15:46:40 GMT -5
Post by roxis on Jan 26, 2009 15:46:40 GMT -5
I'm opposed to a claim of any kind unless it's to save your own arse. Why is that? Well, you either have a claim made by scum, who will be lying through their teeth, a power role is outed, or some idiot claims vanilla. But now that KidV mentions it, I'll admit that I completely forgot about investigators and the like. Yes, by all means, if an investigator uncovers scum they should let town know. Then when the lynchee turns up scum, the cop can reveal their previous investigations and confirm town. I do agree with this. As for a facebook user who claims every time, well, I don't know. I've only completed one game, and I'm currently in two, so I haven't seen enough to know if someone claims every time. But I will say that anyone who claims vanilla deserves a kick in the pants.
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 16:00:26 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Jan 26, 2009 16:00:26 GMT -5
I'm opposed to a claim of any kind unless it's to save your own arse. Besides, based on pede's sample PM, I gather that he doesn't like Roy, who is a traditionally good character. Now, I could see him making Roy scum just because he doesn't like the character. And I realize he's not in this game, even though he should be since he was the best character in Melee. It's not that I don't like him. It's just that the fandom in general hated, hated, hated him. (I don't know why. Personally, my most hated character was Pichu. Obnoxious little thing.)
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 16:09:59 GMT -5
Post by harmless little bunny on Jan 26, 2009 16:09:59 GMT -5
I had no problems with Roy except that he was slow. I preferred to use Captain Falcon and Fox in Melee. Now I use Fox, Metaknight, and Olimar in Brawl.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 16:15:12 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 26, 2009 16:15:12 GMT -5
Well, you either have a claim made by scum, who will be lying through their teeth, a power role is outed, or some idiot claims vanilla. But there are many pro-town reasons to claim, and not for just investigators. There is no paradigm in mafia that doesn't have situational exceptions, and the "you shouldn't claim" one is riddled with them. Especially since, generally, unforced claims are more reliable. No they shouldn't, at least, not necessarily. An investigator's job is not to out scum, his job is to confirm town. Granted, once you find scum, you have to weigh the importance of outing yourself vs. outing the scum, and often it's close enough to a point where you'd likely claim anyway, but it might be better to stay hidden. It's been said before that scum cannot play pro-town all the time and win. Scum will eventually out themselves via slips or intentional actions. And every townie will do something anti-town. Town should be able to find scum without the detective, but they will have a harder job finding town without one. Not to mention that a townie removed from an unconfirmed pool by a detective is far better than a scum removed from an unconfirmed pool by the detective, and I can give you a quick "run the numbers" explanation on why this is if you need it.
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 16:20:56 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Jan 26, 2009 16:20:56 GMT -5
I had no problems with Roy except that he was slow. I preferred to use Captain Falcon and Fox in Melee. Now I use Fox, Metaknight, and Olimar in Brawl. I used Ness and Mewtwo. Haven't played Brawl much, but I like R.O.B., Lucario (Mewtwo's spiritual successor), and Ness.
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Day 1
Jan 26, 2009 16:24:11 GMT -5
Post by roxis on Jan 26, 2009 16:24:11 GMT -5
An investigator's job is not to out scum, his job is to confirm town. I agree. But your second point is what I was getting at. Unless you have a really lucky investigation, a cop is likely going to have three or four townies confirmed before they hit scum. This is around the average halfway point, where it's more advantageous for a cop to reveal themselves. Not to mention that a townie removed from an unconfirmed pool by a detective is far better than a scum removed from an unconfirmed pool by the detective, and I can give you a quick "run the numbers" explanation on why this is if you need it. That would be great, actually. Before someone accuses me of it, I'm not playing up my inexperience, but every so often I run across terms or such I'm unfamiliar with. And, this would help a lot. :)
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