Gir!
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EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day 4
Feb 14, 2009 22:27:16 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Feb 14, 2009 22:27:16 GMT -5
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Day 4
Feb 14, 2009 23:15:01 GMT -5
Post by roxis on Feb 14, 2009 23:15:01 GMT -5
roxis, did you target paul or Parzival last night? If you didn't, there's another redirector, and possibly one that's not Town-aligned. Because I don't think retargeting a possibly harmful power onto a claimed power role is very pro-Town. Nope, it wasn't me. That's definitely something I'd own up to (though I wouldn't do it in the first place).
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Day 4
Feb 14, 2009 23:21:23 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 14, 2009 23:21:23 GMT -5
The PM I recieved had no mention of water or ice. If it had been Squirtle then there would have been water or ice left behind.
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Day 4
Feb 14, 2009 23:21:42 GMT -5
Post by harmless little bunny on Feb 14, 2009 23:21:42 GMT -5
Curiouser and curiouser. I'm leading in the votes already! Farewell to our friend, surrogate, and my old monkey pal. I was redirected last night. I got 'lost' along the way and ended up targeting someone else. It's possible that it's related to what caused you to hit me, paulwhoisaghost. It may be that other people's powers were switched around, or maybe it's just related to us. And I'm thankful that it didn't kill me. Although I didn't quite expect it to do that anyway. Paul aimed at himself and hit you, but were you redirected to hit Paul or someone else?
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Day 4
Feb 14, 2009 23:26:51 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 14, 2009 23:26:51 GMT -5
I dont think the turn hit applies toParzival here.
Who did you end up targetting though Parzival?
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 0:05:49 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 15, 2009 0:05:49 GMT -5
Oops.. that should say "term" not turn
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Parzival
Mome Rath
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 0:57:51 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Feb 15, 2009 0:57:51 GMT -5
I see no benefit to the town to revealing exactly who I targeted and who I was redirected to, but it wasn't Paulwhoisaghost. Also, comparing the two, it actually appears to be a different sort of thing. Mine seemed random, not a compulsion:
Paul, can you explain the benefit to the town of the surrogate's owner claiming? It doesn't seem like anything close to a good idea to me. I wouldn't even presume that they were the intended target - their pet could have been sent to protect someone else for all we know.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 1:31:06 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 15, 2009 1:31:06 GMT -5
Paul, can you explain the benefit to the town of the surrogate's owner claiming? It doesn't seem like anything close to a good idea to me. I wouldn't even presume that they were the intended target - their pet could have been sent to protect someone else for all we know. I hadn't considered the fact that Nana could have been sent to protect someone. I thought it was an autodefense power of the character the scum targetted for night kill. My thought process was that with his "pet" gone, he is essentially a vanilla that the scum knows is vanilla. If that is so, then it would make sense to role claim so that we reduce our odds of lynching another town. At this point it is either 9 to 5 or 10 to 4... either way its getting a little close for comfort. The only thing a role claim would do in that case is reduce the difference in information that the scum possess but we do not. Now, if that person were able to send their Surrogate to protect someone else, then you're right and a role claim would be a horrible thing to do.
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Natlaw
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 4:38:19 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 15, 2009 4:38:19 GMT -5
Well crap, second time I placed my first voted against town . At this point it is either 9 to 5 or 10 to 4... either way its getting a little close for comfort. If SCUM do have the trophyfying gun which a SCUM can use instead of a regular Night action as Pollux de Fuego suggests, it gives them 1.5 kill per Night. I base that on trophy N1 and N3, but one N2 - if true I would expect another trophy Tomorrow), so the gun has maybe a Day/Cycle charge time, Based on that six SCUM seems a lot (1/4 of 24) and I get with five: | Town | SCUM | TP | PFK | Setup | 17 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Dead | 8 | 1 | 1 | 0 | Alive | 9 | 4 | 0 | 1 |
Assuming trophyfying N4 and N6, besides the lynch and SCUM Night kill: D4: 10/4, D5: 7/4, D6: 5/4 (LyLo), D7: 4/3 (LyLo), D8: 3/2 (LyLo), D8: 2/1 (LyLo). That means we have only two mislynches left (and only one if there are five SCUM left).
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Natlaw
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 4:51:41 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 15, 2009 4:51:41 GMT -5
That should be: I base that on no trophy found after N1 and N3. Also LyLo = Lynch SCUM or lose and lynching the PFK also counts as a mislynch.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 5:03:24 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 15, 2009 5:03:24 GMT -5
Well crap, second time I placed my first voted against town . At this point it is either 9 to 5 or 10 to 4... either way its getting a little close for comfort. If SCUM do have the trophyfying gun which a SCUM can use instead of a regular Night action as Pollux de Fuego suggests, it gives them 1.5 kill per Night. I base that on trophy N1 and N3, but one N2 - if true I would expect another trophy Tomorrow), so the gun has maybe a Day/Cycle charge time, Based on that six SCUM seems a lot (1/4 of 24) and I get with five: | Town | SCUM | TP | PFK | Setup | 17 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Dead | 8 | 1 | 1 | 0 | Alive | 9 | 4 | 0 | 1 |
Assuming trophyfying N4 and N6, besides the lynch and SCUM Night kill: D4: 10/4, D5: 7/4, D6: 5/4 (LyLo), D7: 4/3 (LyLo), D8: 3/2 (LyLo), D8: 2/1 (LyLo). That means we have only two mislynches left (and only one if there are five SCUM left). This is all assuming that the town has no abilities left that can kill. Because those abilities can either benefit town by killing scum, or end the game even earlier than night 8 by missing scum and killing a town.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 5:04:46 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 15, 2009 5:04:46 GMT -5
what is LyLo by the way?
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Natlaw
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 6:30:59 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 15, 2009 6:30:59 GMT -5
For LyLo description, see two posts up. Based on misterblockey's posts Night Three how the vigilante should use the borda votes to pick his target, I think he targeted Zeriel Night One who he voted first. He must have killed either sinjin or MHaye Night Two, but both didn't have much votes. Maybe he was redirected from aubby or shaggy (since Parzival got redirected last Night). Night Three he targeted probably shaggy again, but got killed himself. That would make shaggy Solid Snake. One thing that worries me is the color: paulwhoisaghost has an hammer attack. sinjin was stabbed, MHaye was pierced by a sword. nana was killed by parasitic things, tdpatriots was gagged. But Kat! woke up with a headache D3, as did peekercpa D4. Both hit over the head by a judgement hammer which didn't roll a nine? pedescribe, would you keep the color consistent in that the kill uses the actual weapon of the role? The answer would probably unduly affect the game state .
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Natlaw
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 6:51:12 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 15, 2009 6:51:12 GMT -5
About tdpatriots12 being an investigator: that hurts a lot since we already lost another in Rysto. Looking at tdpatriots posts for breadcrumbs - I don't see any. My guesses would be a Zeriel or special ed N1 and Chucara N2 (he talks he whole paragraph why I doesn't want to lynch Chucara). So that doesn't helps us at all.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 7:18:45 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 15, 2009 7:18:45 GMT -5
Just so it's directly answered. Lynch or lose. And if we aren't there yet we are getting perilously close. And with most likely 4 scummers left and what appears to be three killing elements as well as an attempted killer or something we had better have our collective shit together today. Ok, bright side. We can't do any worse that we have been doing.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 7:58:46 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 15, 2009 7:58:46 GMT -5
Ok this is fluff so just pass over if you will.
I have no clue what the average age of you folks are. But in re-reading page one of this day it took me back about thirty to fourty years.
Thank you.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 8:07:55 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 15, 2009 8:07:55 GMT -5
But Kat! woke up with a headache D3, as did peekercpa D4. Both hit over the head by a judgement hammer which didn't roll a nine? **snipped** Okay... just to be clear, Peeker was not hit with the hammer last night, Parzival was. (skim much?) The color does put him in the same condition Kat was on day 3 though. Which means that the headache and bad dream are not affects of the Judgement Hammer. So far, the only effects I have seen come from the hammer are votes.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 10:33:11 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 15, 2009 10:33:11 GMT -5
<Snipped> a wee bit. I want to make this abundantly clear. The fact that I may or may have not been hit with the paul hammer does not have any impact on the fact that I was well and truly hammered last night.
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Trepa Mayfield
FGM
Does Not Follow Directions
The only kind of panda worth preserving.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 11:16:51 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 15, 2009 11:16:51 GMT -5
pedescribe, would you keep the color consistent in that the kill uses the actual weapon of the role? The color really isn't supposed to matter. It's a hard line to walk: too vague and it gets boring; too specific and the town tries to metagame the entire game. So I can't be too specific (notice that most of the weapons used don't actually appear in the game--there's a reason for that), because I don't want it to be a significant factor in how this turns out. So...no.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 11:32:02 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Feb 15, 2009 11:32:02 GMT -5
Okay let's do a little bit of analysis here. In the pool of unknowns, we know there is a Solid Snake and we know there is an Ice Climber. We know for a fact the Ice Climber is town, while Snake's alignment is unknown. We also know there's a dirt-napper out there. Anybody take a dirt nap last Night? Based on the actions of last Night, I'm fairly certain both paulwhoisaghost and Parzival are town (if paul is telling the truth, of course), and scum have a redirector role on their side. It's possible that the redirector could be third-party, but otherwise there would be no reason to redirect paul towards Parzival. A town redirector should have pointed him towards somebody else. The only reason I can see to lynch paulwhoisaghost toDay is if people suspect that he is lying about being redirected and actually targeted Parzival outright. It is a little suspicious as that would make two redirector roles in addition to roxis' Squirtle. On the other hand, Jigglypuff was an insane pro-town roleblocker supposedly (roleblocking at least 3 people wtf) so that might have been included to balance all the killing/redirecting/etc. For now I, personally, am going to ignore paulwhoisaghost and focus on the pool of unclaimed. My first guess as to what the "X did not die last night" meant would be a mad bomber, but sachertorte is already dead. My guess is that whoever's doing it is getting something from who they're attacking, that the failed kill is intentional and not a successful protect. With misterblockey dead, I think we have two outright killers left, based on the number of kills. By outright I mean that's their sole purpose, and my guess is a scum and a serial killer. We also have paulwhoisaghost (who might still kill if he gets a 9, we don't know) and roxis (delayed kill) but paul can't control his and we'll supposedly know if roxis kills anyone. I don't think Nana could be sent out. If they could send her out I can't see why they wouldn't protect tdpatriots last Night. He was an obvious target since I gave him the staff, unless both a third-party and scum killer targeted tdpatriots and Nana could only block one killer. Regardless I don't think the Ice Climber should claim just yet, unless he feels it's at the town's advantage to lower the unknown pool. Okay now that that's over with, time to stop pussyfooting around. 1. Vote molefan 2. Vote shaggy 3. Vote NatlawThis is based mostly on gut. A lot of why I was suspicious of Hal in the first place was based on Chucaraubby being scum, which they weren't. I'm still vaguely suspicious of him but I'm trying a different tactic here. Molefan's language has been bothering me. Some things he's said have just tweaked something in me as I read them. The two examples I can think of are here: (Post #9 on Day 3, I can't directly quote it.) "This sucks" isn't strong enough wording. We're getting reamed here. As for Blockey's death - well, the colour makes it obvious enough. The only part that's not obvious is the alignment of Solid Snake, but I don't see a one shot "paranoid granny"-type role as scum-aligned. I could be wrong, but right now it seems as though both the known vigs have been taken out by town, wasting one shot at a night-killer in the process. Ugh... The first one, to me, seems like a very dramatic, unneeded flourish on the Day 3 results. At this point we'd only mislynched once and while we did lose three power roles, we still had no idea how many third-party/scum were left in the game or what other power roles we might have on our side. It just kind of stuck in my brain as he was trying to look upset as opposed to actually being upset, if that makes any sense. The other one, toDay, jumped out at me because he seemed way too ready to assume Solid Snake was town, and almost completely ignores the possiblity of Snake being a third-party. Overall it's fairly weak, but so far my expert analysis has proved useless so I'll try my gut now. As for shaggy, I still think the vote on misterblockey was based on fairly poor reasoning, and his lackluster defense last Night doesn't help matters. And Natlaw is another gut thing. I caught Ed skimming and was right about that, and while I suppose it's easy to confuse two P names paul did say it was Parzival that got whacked while peeker was the one who got "not deaded." Could be skimming or could be a scum trying to keep the heat/discussion on paul.
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Natlaw
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 14:05:49 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 15, 2009 14:05:49 GMT -5
At this point we'd only mislynched once and while we did lose three power roles Mislynched twice (MM and Chucara) and I count eight dead town power roles (though everyone seems to have some power anyway). [Natlaw] could be skimming or could be a scum trying to keep the heat/discussion on paul. I was considering the color had clues and paul hammered Kat and peeker. With pede's response that idea went out, so now I think the 'vote hammer' idea is likely to be true. It would be more effective for SCUM and as you say, if paul is truthful then used it in a town way.
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Natlaw
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 14:28:38 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 15, 2009 14:28:38 GMT -5
That last sentence reads better as: Adding extra votes would be more useful for SCUM, but as you say if paul is truthful then he used it in a town way by targeting himself (except it didn't work).
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 16:22:52 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 15, 2009 16:22:52 GMT -5
Based on the actions of last Night, I'm fairly certain both paulwhoisaghost and Parzival are town (if paul is telling the truth, of course), and scum have a redirector role on their side. It's possible that the redirector could be third-party, but otherwise there would be no reason to redirect paul towards Parzival. A town redirector should have pointed him towards somebody else. The only reason I can see to lynch paulwhoisaghost toDay is if people suspect that he is lying about being redirected and actually targeted Parzival outright. It is a little suspicious as that would make two redirector roles in addition to roxis' Squirtle. I don't think I was redirected. I think it is an innate part of my ability that I wasn't told about. I can try again toNight and see if it does the same thing. Either I end up hitting myself, or I hit someone else and we know that A) I am right, or B)at least I kept the scum redirector busy In either case, here is my theory on what happened. I targetted myself. Parzival targetted Joe Schmoe and got redirected to me. Either I hit a random person when I target myself, or I can only target myself if no one else is with me that night, either way I end up hitting Parzival who may or may not have boosted the hit with his ability. ( Meaning the roll may have come up a 3 but because I was being sidekicked it turned out to be 6.... in which case we got lucky it was a low roll.) I don't think Nana could be sent out. If they could send her out I can't see why they wouldn't protect tdpatriots last Night. He was an obvious target since I gave him the staff, unless both a third-party and scum killer targeted tdpatriots and Nana could only block one killer. Regardless I don't think the Ice Climber should claim just yet, unless he feels it's at the town's advantage to lower the unknown pool. This is what I was thinking. However, the continued silence of whoever the Ice Climber is makes me think that he could send Nana out, and that the scum don't know who he is. I could be wrong, but right now it seems as though both the known vigs have been taken out by town, wasting one shot at a night-killer in the process. Ugh... The one thing I find most interesting about this, is that Molefan sounds as though he is talking about the town's actions in a third party perspective. And now that I reread this, what does the comment about the shot at the night-killer part mean Molefan? (Not meant in an accusatory tone)
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 16:27:38 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 15, 2009 16:27:38 GMT -5
The other one, toDay, jumped out at me because he seemed way too ready to assume Solid Snake was town, and almost completely ignores the possiblity of Snake being a third-party. Well I won't answer the "reamed" thing as, as you say, it's based mostly on gut. As for the "Solid Snake" point though, I'm not assuming anything, I'm going on experience. I can't recall a scum-aligned paranoid granny-type role, at least with regard to night-kills (lynchings are different). Generally speaking, you either have a nightkill power or you can block nightkills, not both. That leaves pacifist (non-killing) scum or PFK, and all I can say is that it's a bloody odd PFK-type role that allows you to openly take out one person who's targeting you at night. My reasoning is that if Solid Snake were really a malicious PFK, he'd be very unlikely to declare himself in the colour like that. We'd just get a statement along the lines of "Blockey is dead" and nothing about who was responsible. (That goes for scum as well BTW.) I could be wrong about Solid Snake, but right now if an uncontested claim for him was thrown out, I would avoid voting him based on it and the reasoning above.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 16:34:50 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 15, 2009 16:34:50 GMT -5
The one thing I find most interesting about this, is that Molefan sounds as though he is talking about the town's actions in a third party perspective. And now that I reread this, what does the comment about the shot at the night-killer part mean Molefan? (Not meant in an accusatory tone) Well I'm not Solid Snake. As for Zeriel, I didn't kill him and I don't know who did (although Blockey himself would be my top suspect). My comment about "shot at the night-killer" means that if Solid Snake had been targeted by a scum night-killer, unless SS is scum himself (which is IMO unlikely for reasons given in my last post) then we'd have one dead scum instead of one dead vig. I assume from the colour that SS is a one-shot granny - his power is to kill whoever targets him. In effect, not only have we lost a vig, we've lost the ability to get one scum or serial killer out of the game. That's what I mean by "shot at a night killer".
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Parzival
Mome Rath
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 16:35:13 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Feb 15, 2009 16:35:13 GMT -5
In either case, here is my theory on what happened. I targetted myself. Parzival targetted Joe Schmoe and got redirected to me. Either I hit a random person when I target myself, or I can only target myself if no one else is with me that night, either way I end up hitting Parzival who may or may not have boosted the hit with his ability. ( Meaning the roll may have come up a 3 but because I was being sidekicked it turned out to be 6.... in which case we got lucky it was a low roll.) Did you miss my earlier post? I was not redirected to you. However, I now realize that I may be the common element here. I have two theories (assuming the facts as claimed are correct) on what happened: a) It's just a coincidence. The fact that I'm involved twice was just chance. Maybe there's two redirectors, or maybe it is part of your power, or something else. b) The redirector role has a stronger power. They choose a target (e.g. me). Any action performed by them gets redirected elsewhere, and in addition someone else's actions gets redirected to the target. Ultimately we don't know if the redirector even gets to choose their target, so I don't think a whole lot more useful will come of discussing it.
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Parzival
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 16:39:49 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Feb 15, 2009 16:39:49 GMT -5
Ultimately we don't know if the redirector even gets to choose their target, so I don't think a whole lot more useful will come of discussing it. should be: ... gets to choose who their target is redirected to ... I wanted to point out that redirection to a random player is a possibility.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 16:49:17 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 15, 2009 16:49:17 GMT -5
Hoopy has been unusually quiet... is he away or something?
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 18:27:06 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Feb 15, 2009 18:27:06 GMT -5
Well since you all are talking about solid snake and I have one vote on me. The way I see it, if yesterday is any indication I am going to get lynched today anyways. So if you want lynch me go ahead but atleast this way when you do, you will see I was not telling a lie. I am town and I am solid snake and here is my PM:
I figured last night, well I am most probably going to get lynched anyways, and my percentage of surviving a night kill was down to 50% cause you all kept saying my name instead of quoting me and then talking. So I was like why not, let's kill the person who tried to kill me. Sorry blockey , I really had hoped it was a SCUM I was taking out. Though now my survival chance of a night kill is zero. So I am really powerless and all. For what it is worth, I say waste not a lynch on me and leave me to the SCUM or if we do have another vig/SK out there, let them take me out now. But if you want, go ahead and lynch away.
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Day 4
Feb 15, 2009 18:47:27 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 15, 2009 18:47:27 GMT -5
Well that explains why everyone's Role PM had night and day all messed up. I figured last night, well I am most probably going to get lynched anyways, and my percentage of surviving a night kill was down to 50% cause you all kept saying my name instead of quoting me and then talking. So I was like why not, let's kill the person who tried to kill me. Sorry blockey , I really had hoped it was a SCUM I was taking out. They only part about this that doesn't make sense to me is your logic behind choosing to kill who targetted you. Why would you think it was scum? Why would Scum choose to kill an unconfirmed role who came in second in the lynch vote? I think you are PFK and you added the part about being town to your Role PM. That being said, I don't think we should lynch Shaggy toDay. We are too far behind the Scum and need to try to target them as opposed to taking out the PFK. Oh and thank you for stepping up and role claiming. Even though I don't believe you are being entirely honest, it still helps us narrow down the suspect pool.
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