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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 17:40:05 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 23, 2009 17:40:05 GMT -5
Hoopy's crazy-ass mechanical guess #34:
What if the thing that killed Charizard last night works like an opposite of Solid Snake. Instead of charging down when it's mentioned, it charges up. And it gets used when it hits a certain level.
Either that, or it seems to only come out on even-numbered nights.
I still think it provides an extra kill for SCUM. I thought it might be something to bypass protections, but if roxis is being truthful, clearly it didn't bypass her protection.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 18:26:30 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Feb 23, 2009 18:26:30 GMT -5
2) The fact that we will be giving up a bird in hand for whatever sits in the bush, and while I'm pretty certain that at least one of the crazypunker, peeker, KidV crowd is SCUM, and would say that it's likely that at least two of them are, we don't have any confirmation on that. This is what worries me. On one hand, we know Nanook is scum and can just as easily ignore him for the moment and lynch him another day. On the other...we don't know about anyone else, so we could screw up big time. However, I, too, would be more than willing to forego voting Nanook. And that is why I have not voted yet, because I am unsure whether it is better to go for the obvious, or hold onto that and find the others. Since we started out with 24 players, I dunno how it work's on this board but I found the general rule for geussing how many scum there are is the square root rule. Basically take the square root of all players and that is the best geuss for how many scum you have. So for this game that means 4.5, so we eigther have 3 or 4 scum left. Take Nanook off and that still leaves us with 2-3 scum left. Which would leave 10-11 town or 3rd party people. So on one hand I am thinking it would be good to hold onto nanook till we are pretty sure he is the last one, then loosing a town as well, does not really matter and why? Well because the game would be over. But on the other hand can we be sure to not mislynch to manny while keeping him alive? So part of me is saying let's just lynch him and then the next day go for one of the others, but part of me is also saying go for them and hold off on nanook or atleast for now.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 18:33:53 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Feb 23, 2009 18:33:53 GMT -5
My vote's right now would be nanook, peeker and crazy , I am just not sure which order to put them in. nanook for last night and yesterday, peeker I voted for yesterday, and I still find those reason's suspicious. And crazy I agree with what others have said, such as hoopy's reason's. as I said I am not 100% sure which order would be best, for placing votes. As I said do we go for a pretty definate scum, or try to find his scum buddies first?
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 19:15:07 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Feb 23, 2009 19:15:07 GMT -5
I'm in favor of claiming, though I can see an argument to wait until Tomorrow before demanding all information on the table, because we gained another mislynch (even if SCUM have an extra kill, if I count right). The claim should include the remaining roles from Pollux de Fuego, but should we also fully detail our powers?. So, are we claiming Today or Tomorrow then? Somebody poke me when it's my turn. I agree with what others have said, such as hoopy's reason's. as I said I am not 100% sure which order would be best, for placing votes. As I said do we go for a pretty definate scum, or try to find his scum buddies first? Well, if there's no other obvious suspects <insert laughter here>... Er, sorry, what I meant was, we can discuss the other likely suspects Today, and if enough people to forgo a Nanook lynch, we could do the next most likely* suspect and save Nanook for Tomorrow. I might support doing this if we think think it would be more helpful to Town for Natlaw to survive another Night than it would be detrimental to Town to leave a known scum alive or if there's an obvious scum slip that reveals someone who is an immediate danger and should be taken out right away, and if enough can agree on who is the next most likely* suspect is. So basically, is it more important to keep a Protector or off a scum. That's a toughie for me. I hate dead Doctors. *" Nanook likeliness" being 100% of course.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 19:30:55 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 23, 2009 19:30:55 GMT -5
I believe so. To interpret this bit of peeker-speak, it's probably a reference to Nanook of the North who lived in the Arctic (Northern Canada in particular), where there are polar bears, and polar bears were (are?) featured prominently in a series of Coca-Cola CGI commercials. Couple of things in random order. Hoop is correct in analyzing my post. For some odd reason since I first played with nook I imagine this large polar bear wandering the tundra and drinking Coke. Second, WOOT the flippin' WOOT. A no kill night is a potential extra town mis lynch. And third, and these run together. The enterprise that I access this site to via BB just went through some major "upgrade". Now you have to log in every time you want to hit the BB WAN server. As a result they wiped a heck of lot of history from our saved folders. I am all for a mass role claim. It's just that you won't get a quoted PM, which I had difficulty doing in the past and will have to be a paraphrase. Sorry guys/gals I am not going to request a backup to pre upgrade info merely for purposes of this game. I still think paul and nook are one and two in my book. Also, if it comes to asking me to claim, town should make that decision PDQ. Cause it might cause some discussion.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 20:28:02 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 23, 2009 20:28:02 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more we might want to leave Nanook alone for now.
The issue I had with bird-in-the-hand was if Nanook has an offensive power, he can use it against us if we don't take him out. Since town clearly had no vanillas, scum no doubt have powers (but, some of that is no doubt balanced by the powerful PFK).
But I'm inclined to believe that Nanook was true about not being able to be targeted at night. We even have partial confirmation from other players that they tried to target him and couldn't.
A non-night targetable scum is a powerful role indeed. I can't see him having much more power than that, since it essentially makes him immune to everything at night. So honestly, if we think he's truly a ninja, we might want to save him for last. It will keep our numbers up, and keep a protective role active. When he's the last to go, it won't matter that he takes a townie with him.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 20:31:12 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Feb 23, 2009 20:31:12 GMT -5
I vote for mass claim toDay. At this point there's nothing to lose. Plus, then I can show the other two roles I have. (The role I got last Night was a pro-town one.)
I'm also in favor of not lynching Nanook toDay. I think there's a fairly good chance we can nail another scum toDay if we put all our heads together and think this through. Plus, I highly doubt that Sheik is going to have the trophy gun. I feel like there's a specific role that has the trophy gun and if we can nail them we'll be able to stop that...whatever it is.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 20:39:42 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 23, 2009 20:39:42 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more we might want to leave Nanook alone for now. The issue I had with bird-in-the-hand was if Nanook has an offensive power, he can use it against us if we don't take him out. Since town clearly had no vanillas, scum no doubt have powers (but, some of that is no doubt balanced by the powerful PFK). But I'm inclined to believe that Nanook was true about not being able to be targeted at night. We even have partial confirmation from other players that they tried to target him and couldn't. A non-night targetable scum is a powerful role indeed. I can't see him having much more power than that, since it essentially makes him immune to everything at night. So honestly, if we think he's truly a ninja, we might want to save him for last. It will keep our numbers up, and keep a protective role active. When he's the last to go, it won't matter that he takes a townie with him. I'm with hoop on this. A non killable night scum needs to be left alive. It's kind of like one of the other games I played in when we had a miller dead to rights. He lives until such time that us townies decide on his lack of utility. blam[/] was pretty adamant about this if I recall. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 20:44:20 GMT -5
Post by harmless little bunny on Feb 23, 2009 20:44:20 GMT -5
I am in favor of the mass claim. I think it will help clear some things up and help us vote the right person tonight. The no-kill helped, but we still need to sure not to mis-lynch.
Along those lines, I am also in favor of holding off on voting Nanook. I think that we need to try and find another scum tonight. Especially if, like Hoopy said, he just can't be targeted at night and that is his only power.
The only thing that I want to add to his thought is that the lovers role might be the balance to a more powerful scum role. I don't know if you thought of that as well.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 22:24:01 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 23, 2009 22:24:01 GMT -5
The only thing that I want to add to his thought is that the lovers role might be the balance to a more powerful scum role. I don't know if you thought of that as well. Yes, but it also balances a town protector with at least one more power. See, we lynch Nanook, we lose half a mislynch when Natlaw dies. Scum take out Natlaw (I'm not sure if Zelda being supressed by Sheik also prevents Zelda from being targeted. Was that resolved one way or the other for certain?), we gain half a mislynch when Nanook dies as well. The lovers we have are both fairly powerful characters in their own right. And the fact that they are lovers carries good and bad for each. I'm not sure how the points play out, but I would say it only changes the balance slightly, and I'm not sure which way it would change it actually, since there are both good and bad sides to being a lover on opposite sides of the alignment spectrum. So the fact that Nanook is a lover doesn't mitigate his power a whole lot, if any. While Natlaw's death will take out a scum, Nanook's death will take out a townie. And the only way we have to take him out, apparently, was by lynch. Forcing town to lynch a scum to kill it is a huge power to have. Also having town waste their powers on an untargetable is a huge power to have.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 22:27:15 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 23, 2009 22:27:15 GMT -5
Okay, the reason I was waiting on a vote count, is because I wanted to see how many votes Nanook had against him. I rolled 2. I did not receive any information about me missing. So I would assume that I hit Nanook. However, he has no extra votes against him. In fact, no one does. I wanted to see if I could hit Nanook. It stands to reason that since he claimed to be Sheik, the scum would be able to use their redirect somewhere else due to Sheik's ninjaness. Since everyone assumed that he was telling the truth about his role it would be a waste to use the redirect on him again. It's obvious now that Nanook is scum, but I still think that he lied about being Sheik. I think that when he started taking some heat and getting votes he took another scums role and used it to keep himself from getting lynched. By tying himself to Natlaw. I think the true Sheik is still in hiding. To prove this I wanted to hit him. If I hit him, then he lied and can be found at night, plus I was hoping that a hit would either score a kill or add votes against him. And since I didn't receive any info about not being able to find him, as the other people who have tried received, I assume that I did hit, but a 2 doesnt result in votes against him. So, since I hit him, which I will try to confirm via PM with Pede, he must not be Sheik right? Which makes him my prime candidate for lynching. My other two votes where mainly just pushing for a claim from them, as they are the 2 I am most suspicious of out of the unclaimed.
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Day 5
Feb 23, 2009 22:45:25 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Feb 23, 2009 22:45:25 GMT -5
Wait. If your theory is that Nanook is not Ninja Boy Sheik, than why were other people unable to target him? A power that blocks on the target's end? Possibly yet another redirector? I know it wasn't me being blocked or my power failing, since the PM specifically said that my power was working, so it was definitely something on Nanook's end.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 1:23:30 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 24, 2009 1:23:30 GMT -5
I'm curious why I'm number one in your book Peeker. Especially since Nanook is number 2 and we now know he is scum. You didn't mention bird in the hand, so I'm assuming you are saying that you suspect me more than Nanook as being scum. Which is very odd.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 2:30:05 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Feb 24, 2009 2:30:05 GMT -5
As I said Kat, I WAS able to target him, so why you guys weren't able to is a mystery to me. And it may not be a redirect power, because a redirect wouldn't have resulted in you not being able to find him. It would have resulted in you hitting someone other than him. (That power is called a Nexus btw) In this case, you simply could not find him, so I would guess that one of the scum is able to hide him. Then again, no one has taken a dirt nap recently, so maybe Captain Olimar has been burying him. I haven't really been keeping up on what he has been doing with those Pikmin of his, so I am probably way off on that statement. Still, vote the way you want. But I'm following my gut on this one. It has been right so far.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 6:28:31 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 24, 2009 6:28:31 GMT -5
A question to those voting Nanook: why vote for him and not me? Why do you trust KidVermicious more with Sheiks powers or mine? roxis: I would vote to have Ivysaur target me (and no lovers lynch Today). However, I'm still not sure we are targetable at Night: pauls '2' might mean a simple miss (any clues about that in your PM paul?) and Kat! didn't mention if she targeted me with her might-kill-you-if-I-do-it-wrong power (based on that description, it sounds like whatever hit Kat N2 and peekercpa N3, but that is my guess). Nanooks ninja skill might be an active power though and he didn't use it last Night and used the gun instead? If we lynch me though, I think it is better to redirect someone scummy. I don't think we need extra deaths. It's obvious now that Nanook is scum, but I still think that he lied about being Sheik. That seems really unlikely (though he didn't mention Sheik until I did afaik). It either means Sheik isn't scum (would have been counterclaimed or will be before we lynch me) or it would mean we got two scum: Nanook and another scum Sheik by lynching me. Unless you we're both scum and we're making the whole lover thing up? You really think I would suggest lynching us in that case? Was a random order made Day One or can someone post one? It seems everyone is in favor of mass claiming, so let's roll.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 7:34:50 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 24, 2009 7:34:50 GMT -5
A question to those voting Nanook: why vote for him and not me? Why do you trust KidVermicious more with Sheiks powers or mine? Good point. I hadn't thought about that. It's probably better to lynch the townie and get the protect than lynch the scum and get whatever scum power is out there, and which KidV would have full knowledge of if he is scum. A scum protect won't hurt us as much since we don't have much in the line of offensive powers remaining. Reasonable idea. Though, I think we can discuss who Roxis targets after Day end. We will have a better idea of what powers the game just lost. I made one here: psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=smashing&action=display&thread=772&page=1#41689I'll relist it (bold are those that are completely unclaimed): Natlaw Hoopy Frood KidV crazypunker peekercpamolefan Nanook shaggy KatPollux Oil Parzival roxis paulwhoisaghost You've already claimed Zelda, the alter-ego of Shiek who has no nightime recollections and can create a flask of protection during the Day which works on the second Night following the Day it's created. I agree that you should't list the power that will benefit only scum at this point. So you probably should do a full post of your PM minus that power next time you're on, but because I don't think there's much more for you to claim at this point, we'll speed things up a bit and I'll go. My role PM: KidV, you're up next.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 7:37:16 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 24, 2009 7:37:16 GMT -5
Another thought, have we given consideration to having Parzival boost molefan and molefan try to investigate toNight, rather than protect? I know it'll pretty much guarantee scum get a kill off, but we could also get a confirmation out of it.
Thoughts?
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 7:38:49 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 24, 2009 7:38:49 GMT -5
And one more thing:
unvote All
vote 1. crazypunker vote 2. peekercpa vote 3. KidV
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 7:43:47 GMT -5
Post by roxis on Feb 24, 2009 7:43:47 GMT -5
Reasonable idea. Though, I think we can discuss who Roxis targets after Day end. We will have a better idea of what powers the game just lost. That's fine, we just need to decide on vig or redirect before the day's up. Once Night falls, I'm locked into Squirtle.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 9:39:27 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 24, 2009 9:39:27 GMT -5
Reasonable idea. Though, I think we can discuss who Roxis targets after Day end. We will have a better idea of what powers the game just lost. That's fine, we just need to decide on vig or redirect before the day's up. Once Night falls, I'm locked into Squirtle. Hmmm.... We can always have you not use your power if it comes to it. But unless you know specifically how you want to redirect someone, the redirect could be a missed opportunity. My main fear with the vig is if scum has a redirector left, they can redirect it to a townie. But with a redirect, a scum redirector might be able to redirect your redirect in which case trying to redirect a scum kill back onto scum might not work anyway, and that's if you actually target whoever got designated to do the scum kill that night. But, you can also cause the scum powers to turn in on themselves, which can also be nice. I'm still leaning vig power, but I'm not sure. Assuming a redirect of a redirect is even possible, how does that get resolved mechanically?[/color]
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 10:53:10 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 24, 2009 10:53:10 GMT -5
That's fine, we just need to decide on vig or redirect before the day's up. Once Night falls, I'm locked into Squirtle. Hmmm.... We can always have you not use your power if it comes to it. But unless you know specifically how you want to redirect someone, the redirect could be a missed opportunity. My main fear with the vig is if scum has a redirector left, they can redirect it to a townie. But with a redirect, a scum redirector might be able to redirect your redirect in which case trying to redirect a scum kill back onto scum might not work anyway, and that's if you actually target whoever got designated to do the scum kill that night. But, you can also cause the scum powers to turn in on themselves, which can also be nice. I'm still leaning vig power, but I'm not sure. Assuming a redirect of a redirect is even possible, how does that get resolved mechanically?[/color][/quote] It depends. If, say: Hal redirects MHaye to sinjin and roxis* redirects Hal to Chucara then Hal would force Chucara to target sinjin. If Hal redirects Mhaye to sinjin and roxis redirects Mhaye to Chucara then MHaye targets both sinjin and Chucara (even if this would not normally be possible). If roxis was a Bus Driver/Janitor, and: Hal redirects Mhaye to sinjin and roxis switches sinjin and Chucara then Hal would force MHaye to target Chucara. *These hypotheticals are in no way a confirmation of roxis's role.
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 10:54:46 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 24, 2009 10:54:46 GMT -5
Votes: Player | Vote 1 | Vote 2 | Vote 3 | Hoopy Frood | crazypunker | peekercpa | KidVermicious | paulwhoisaghost | Nanook | peekercpa | crazypunker |
Totals: Votee | Total | Voters (#1) | Voters (#2) | Voters (#3) | crazypunker | 4 (4) | Hoopy Frood | | paulwhoisaghost | peekercpa | 4 (4) | | Hoopy Frood, paulwhoisaghost | | Nanook | 3 (3) | paulwhoisaghost | | | KidVermicious | 1 (1) | | | Hoopy Frood |
Not Voting: Kat, KidVermicious, Nanook, Natlaw, Parzival, Pollux Oil, crazypunker, molefan, peekercpa, roxis, shaggy
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 11:04:47 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 24, 2009 11:04:47 GMT -5
That's fine, we just need to decide on vig or redirect before the day's up. Once Night falls, I'm locked into Squirtle. Ultimately it is up to you - while us discussing it here is nice and all for ideas, we do have SCUM listening in as well, so feel free to WIFOM them . Hoopy Frood: You seem more afraid his redirect might get redirected, than that his kill might get redirected or just kill a townie outright. Targeting me with Ivysaur seems okay, since it saves us a lynch. Unless SCUM has an redirect or I'm not targetable and could have better redirected instead. Killing someone else might kill a townie, while redirecting could save townie and could kill SCUM. So I don't see why you suggest the vigilante action.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 11:47:37 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Feb 24, 2009 11:47:37 GMT -5
Metaknight (Town Involuntary Backup)
No-one would know it under all that heavy armor, but you're really just as much a shapeshifter as Kirby. You don't particularly like this power, nor being a puffball, so you've trained in the sword to compensate, and challange people to prove your worth. This was just another proving ground...until something happened. You've lost control of your shapeshifting powers. Every day, you'll transform into someone else, without your permission. Oh, and you won't be able to use your sword, not properly.
1. Whenever someone is lynched, you gain their powers. Not fully. You won't get access to any secret boards (meaning you couldn't use a SCUM's nightkill ability), but you will be able to do any actions they could. 2. Also, you will have no information except the death blurb and any details already talked about. So I'll say: do you want to take action 1, 2, 3 or nothing? And you choose, I'll request targets if necessary, and then it's done. 3. Every time a lynch goes through, your powers change. There is nothing you can do to stop this.
******************************************
I didn't do anything last Night.
I'm hugely behind at work, I can't throw down a vote until I get a reread in. I don't think Nanook/Sheik has ANY active powers, so if we're going to lynch one of the pair, it will benefit Town more if we lynch Natlaw/Zelda. I'm worried about plan B - Roxis, is your vig attack a Day power? Cuz if not, and Nanook is telling the truth, you won't be able to "find" either of them Tonight.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 11:53:06 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 24, 2009 11:53:06 GMT -5
Hoopy Frood: You seem more afraid his redirect might get redirected, than that his kill might get redirected or just kill a townie outright. No, that's not what I'm afraid of. (I admit that I was probably a bit confusing.) I see the vig as being more useful if it works, and more dangerous if it gets redirected. I see the redirect as both safer if it in turn gets redirected, but not as useful if it doesn't. I'm just trying to decide which is the better choice.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 11:54:36 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 24, 2009 11:54:36 GMT -5
NETA: by "not as useful" I mean a non-redirected redirection is less useful than a non-redirected vig action.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 18:49:55 GMT -5
Post by harmless little bunny on Feb 24, 2009 18:49:55 GMT -5
I guess that means I am up next huh?
Pede told me on day 1 that I started with one charge. I protected myself Night 1, Charged Nights 2 and 3, and used Peach Blossom on KidV Night 4. So even if he did try to use his power last night he couldn't have.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 19:08:11 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 24, 2009 19:08:11 GMT -5
I'm curious why I'm number one in your book Peeker. Especially since Nanook is number 2 and we now know he is scum. You didn't mention bird in the hand, so I'm assuming you are saying that you suspect me more than Nanook as being scum. Which is very odd. Ok, I clearly state in 5.37 that Nook is bird in hand, at least in my book. Also, early in the day I make it clear that Nook needs to go bye bye. (Yaknow if it's not clear enough for you pardon the subtley). I have been with the general concensus that if we find a tastier target than nook then we should go that route. I've also, made alliteration where us townies succussfully pulled this off, if only for a night or so. I still think your power seems more non town oriented than town. If that message has not been received then I don't know what more I can do. I think that nook is scum but that if we are going to wait then you would be my first choice as surrogate. If this logic is specious to you then. Meh. At least either read what I post or be accurate in your characterzations that's all I ask. Sheesh.
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 19:32:03 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 24, 2009 19:32:03 GMT -5
Otie dotie.
Back in a few with my role. Gotta go fish my notes out and then type it out.
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Gir!
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Day 5
Feb 24, 2009 20:11:09 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Feb 24, 2009 20:11:09 GMT -5
Kat! didn't mention if she targeted me with her might-kill-you-if-I-do-it-wrong power (based on that description, it sounds like whatever hit Kat N2 and peekercpa N3, but that is my guess) That's right, I didn't. I did target you last Night, but my power failed. This is not the same as Night 3, in which my power worked, but I could not find Nanook, and I know this for sure, because my power has a failure rate, and this isn't the first time that it's happened. I don't know if I would first have to find you, and then the failure rate is calculated (in which case, you are targetable), or if the failure rate is calculated first (in which case, the answer is stil up in the air). Anything else can wait until my roleclaim post.
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