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Day One
Apr 4, 2009 18:26:13 GMT -5
Post by Captain Pinkies on Apr 4, 2009 18:26:13 GMT -5
Vote: Hawkeyop
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Day One
Apr 4, 2009 20:41:29 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Apr 4, 2009 20:41:29 GMT -5
Hmmm.
Okay, one thing I'm surprised hasn't been brought up yet, the big 600-pound gorilla in the corner: the recruitment issue. I, personally, think it's a good idea for people to weigh in on that right now on Day One. Since Kat confirmed normal Night actions wouldn't take place on Night 0, we can assume that for Day One, everybody is the alignment they started out as, which means it's a good idea to get recruitment discussion out now as opposed to later, when people might have switched sides. I also think that as the game progresses, we should use Day One as a type of barometer (I don't know why barometer, it just popped into my head okay?) to compare people's actions and gameplay.
Since the mods have been vague on what exactly type of recruiting is going on (just, basically, there is recruitment) it could be third-party recruitment or scum recruitment. If third-party recruitment, we're probably looking at a cult-type recruiting scenario, where it starts with one person and each Night they get to recruit somebody, and they win when they equal a certain percentage of the town. If it's scum recruitment, there's probably a limit on how much recruiting they can do. Either they only get X amount of recruiting for the game, or something like if they recruit one night they can't kill the same Night, and can't recruit again the next Night. Also, depending on the restrictions, if scum are the recruiters we might be looking at a lower scum total at the beginning of the game.
From looking at the roles list, Infected Townie might be the recruited townspeople.
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Day One
Apr 4, 2009 21:22:03 GMT -5
Post by MiteyMouse on Apr 4, 2009 21:22:03 GMT -5
Ah the recruitment issue. I have been thinking about this and I came up with the same scenarios as you Pollox but also, a the possiblility of Mason recruiters...assuming that we have Masons, of course.
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Day One
Apr 4, 2009 23:09:12 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 4, 2009 23:09:12 GMT -5
I cannot be recruited. So not all roles can be. I may be the only one, though.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Apr 5, 2009 0:15:28 GMT -5
I cannot be recruited. So not all roles can be. I may be the only one, though. Well... if there is one specific role that does the recruiting then they can't be recruited either.... unless that's you.... in which case what I just said is a redundancy. Also.... I'm not asking for clarification on your role so please don't take it that way... just trying to clarify the possibility... like a recruiting mason.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 5, 2009 1:14:08 GMT -5
Can we say "DUH"? Obviously the one doing the recruiting would not be able to be "recruited", but I'm saying I'm an actual role (that doesn't have any recruiting powers) that cannot be recruited.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 5, 2009 1:16:03 GMT -5
Really, the recruiter, if you want to pick nits....is ALREADY part of the recruited, so no, I wouldn't call them "non recruitable", since they start out that way to begin with.
Also...recruited is one of those words that if you say or type it out enough times, it turns into one of those really silly sounding words that make you wonder "why is this a word?"
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 5, 2009 4:39:39 GMT -5
Also...recruited is one of those words that if you say or type it out enough times, it turns into one of those really silly sounding words that make you wonder "why is this a word?" QFT.
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Apr 5, 2009 8:40:43 GMT -5
Actually, I think any word will eventually make you wonder "Why is this a word?"* if you repeat it enough times. Some words just take more repetition than others to reach that point.
(*Or else "Is this really a real word?")
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 10:02:08 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Apr 5, 2009 10:02:08 GMT -5
Regarding LTL - I suspect that KatNAF are of the opinion that lurking is a viable strategy (an opinion I agree with). I suspect they've got plans in place to deal with an incident of no participation, and I also suspect that they're going to keep playing those plans close to the vest, in order to prevent megagaming on our part. There's nothing wrong with nudging a player, but on Day One, when said player hasn't even posted yet, they probably aren't even around to see your nudge. When it gets down to 12 hours until Dusk, and your vote is still on the lurking player, what are you going to do? Move your vote on short notice? That accomplishes nothing, in terms of getting players to post, and could lead to poor last-minute decisions. Or you could leave your vote there, neglecting potentially scummier players, which could end up being a waste of a vote, and provide valuable cover for scumvotes.
I think there's a difference between using lurkyness as part of a case against a player, and using it as a sole criteria. Speaking purely for myself, I'd like to see those voting for Hawk and other lurkers to state right now what they hope to gain with their vote, and what they're going to do if they don't get it.
Regarding recruitment - we don't know anything, Pollux. We don't know the recruitment mechanic, we don't know whether the recruited party is aware they've been recruited, we don't know what restrictions are in place to prevent them from outing themselves and the recruiter, we don't know if there's another party that can out recruited players, we don't even know if the recruited parties win condition changes, etc.
We do know one thing, I guess, and that's that Idle would like us to believe he isn't recruitable. This is WIFOM at this stage, though, because it doesn't/won't really add anything to our knowledge base until that info is confirmed.
I'd like to be able to ask for all Town players to commit to fessing up if/when recruited, but without knowing answers to the above, this may not be feasible. So lets do this, with full expectation that KatNAF have a way to prevent it from being gamebreaking:
If I'm recruited, I will do everything in my power within the spirit of the game rules to let the rest of Town know. Hear that, recruiter? I'll screw you over, if I can, win condition be damned. Keep your filthy mitts off me.
Anybody wanna join me in that?
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 10:02:58 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Apr 5, 2009 10:02:58 GMT -5
"megagaming"? I shouldn't post while I'm on Lortab.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 10:23:53 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Apr 5, 2009 10:23:53 GMT -5
If I'm recruited, I will do everything in my power within the spirit of the game rules to let the rest of Town know. Hear that, recruiter? I'll screw you over, if I can, win condition be damned. Keep your filthy mitts off me. Anybody wanna join me in that? I've never played a game with recruitment, tho I would guess that there are some game mechanics in place to prevent someone going "I've just been recruited to by scummy Mr or Mrs X". As you say, folk might not even know they have been recruited. So yes, within the bounds of the game mechanics, I think it does make sense for any recruited townie to try and spill the beans.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 10:25:41 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Apr 5, 2009 10:25:41 GMT -5
I cannot be recruited. So not all roles can be. I may be the only one, though. maybe you are already on the same side as the recruiter.
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Gir!
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 10:33:52 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Apr 5, 2009 10:33:52 GMT -5
Current vote count:
paulwhoisaghost (2) – Idle, KidV Idle Thoughts (1) – FCOD Hawkeyeop (3) – pede, sundry, Captain Pinkies BillMc (1) - moodymitchy
31 1/2 hours (give or take a couple minutes) until Dusk.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 10:40:49 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on Apr 5, 2009 10:40:49 GMT -5
This: <!--//-->Vote: paulwhoisaghost
For seemingly joking around in the Night 0 thread...when, in fact, there's usually a thin line between joking and saying stuff that is real but that you think and hope everyone will take as a joke.
Also (and to get metagaming off to start), he says he still didn't get a role PM almost RIGHT BEFORE the actual game started! Uh, really? Funny because I got my role PM a looooooooooong time ago. Like, about 15 hours ago. So I find it weird that they'd delay someone a PM that long, especially only a little while before the game is going to start.
I smell a fib. WHY he'd be fibbing, I don't know, but I smell one.
And YOU COCKSUCKING MODS! WHY THIS ROLE? Dammit. and this: <!--//-->I cannot be recruited. So not all roles can be. I may be the only one, though. seem kind of at odds with each other. With the one post you're calling the mods cocksuckers for the role you've got and in the other you're saying you can't be recruited. Surely not being able to be recruited is a damn good reason to be pleased about your role? Sounds fishy to me. vote Idle
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 10:44:04 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on Apr 5, 2009 10:44:04 GMT -5
"megagaming"? I shouldn't post while I'm on Lortab. That made me snicker Yes, if it's possible without cheating we should absolutely try and let everyone know if we get recruited, though I think it's unlikely NAF/KAT would have left that option open.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 11:21:06 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 5, 2009 11:21:06 GMT -5
I cannot be recruited. So not all roles can be. I may be the only one, though. maybe you are already on the same side as the recruiter. Or maybe I just can't be recruited.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 11:21:46 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Apr 5, 2009 11:21:46 GMT -5
Idle, if you don't mind my asking, why have you volunteered that info?
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 11:24:28 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 5, 2009 11:24:28 GMT -5
This: <!--//-->Vote: paulwhoisaghost
For seemingly joking around in the Night 0 thread...when, in fact, there's usually a thin line between joking and saying stuff that is real but that you think and hope everyone will take as a joke.
Also (and to get metagaming off to start), he says he still didn't get a role PM almost RIGHT BEFORE the actual game started! Uh, really? Funny because I got my role PM a looooooooooong time ago. Like, about 15 hours ago. So I find it weird that they'd delay someone a PM that long, especially only a little while before the game is going to start.
I smell a fib. WHY he'd be fibbing, I don't know, but I smell one.
And YOU COCKSUCKING MODS! WHY THIS ROLE? Dammit. and this: <!--//-->I cannot be recruited. So not all roles can be. I may be the only one, though. seem kind of at odds with each other. With the one post you're calling the mods cocksuckers for the role you've got and in the other you're saying you can't be recruited. Surely not being able to be recruited is a damn good reason to be pleased about your role? Sounds fishy to me. vote IdleI don't see how not being able to be recruited makes my role any more of a good one to be. I still would trade it in for any other one and still call the mods COCKSUCKERS for it....recruitment-proof or not. You're having A plus B equal F when it's A plus B equals C. "Cocksucker!" plus "can't be recruited" doesn't = contradiction/inconsistancy.....which is what you seem to be voting for me for. "Cocksucker" plus "can't be recruited" still = "the mods are Cocksuckers for this role I have". Comprende?
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 11:26:45 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 5, 2009 11:26:45 GMT -5
Idle, if you don't mind my asking, why have you volunteered that info? Same reason you said "don't bother recruiting me, I'll just say I'm recruited", as far as I know. To give them a narrower pool of who they can recruit. Seems to me you want people to join you and say "Oh yeah, I'll say I'm recruited if I am...I'll join you in that, KidV!". Well, I can't rightly say that, because I can't be recruited. So what would have made you happy? : p
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 11:53:23 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Apr 5, 2009 11:53:23 GMT -5
Idle, if you don't mind my asking, why have you volunteered that info? Same reason you said "don't bother recruiting me, I'll just say I'm recruited", as far as I know. To give them a narrower pool of who they can recruit. Seems to me you want people to join you and say "Oh yeah, I'll say I'm recruited if I am...I'll join you in that, KidV!". Well, I can't rightly say that, because I can't be recruited. So what would have made you happy? : p Well, the point is, I can be recruited, as far as I know. If you don't want the recruiter to win, seems like a better play might have been to keep your status secret and hope s/he wastes an attempt on you. So I'm curious, what are you trying to accomplish by announcing that you can't be recruited. This isn't the inquisition*, BTW, and I'm not trying to make you make me happy... just curious where you're coming from, is all. * NOBODY expects the ... <smack> shut up, willya?
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 12:12:20 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 5, 2009 12:12:20 GMT -5
Same reason you said "don't bother recruiting me, I'll just say I'm recruited", as far as I know. To give them a narrower pool of who they can recruit. Seems to me you want people to join you and say "Oh yeah, I'll say I'm recruited if I am...I'll join you in that, KidV!". Well, I can't rightly say that, because I can't be recruited. So what would have made you happy? : p Well, the point is, I can be recruited, as far as I know. If you don't want the recruiter to win, seems like a better play might have been to keep your status secret and hope s/he wastes an attempt on you. So I'm curious, what are you trying to accomplish by announcing that you can't be recruited. This isn't the inquisition*, BTW, and I'm not trying to make you make me happy... just curious where you're coming from, is all. * NOBODY expects the ... <smack> shut up, willya?Nowhere. I'm not coming from anywhere. Just one of those "seemed like a good idea to mention at the time" things. My way of thinking is just...the less people who are recruitable or who would make a good recruiting choice, the better.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 13:03:35 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Apr 5, 2009 13:03:35 GMT -5
I hate Days that run mainly over the weekend. I don't generally get in here to post then, and it makes it rough. But be that as it may, my usual come back and brain dump post begins.
Does anyone know anything about this color? I'm not familiar with Alien Taste at all.
I see Idle is doing his usual stuff. What, no full claim this time?
Chucara says:
This bugs me. Why are you saying it? It's just a giant ball of WIFOM that serves no real purpose. I don't like it.
And another person bitching about their role. Interesting.
Why the huge discussion about a Jester? A Jester(If it's the traditional, wins Day 1, loses any other type) is best off just ignored. If they win, good for them. If they don't, sucks to be them. No reason to waste time discussing it. Unless of course your goal is to keep the discussion centered on irrelevent things. More on this later.
Seriously? 3 pages of fluff and jester discussion? What happened to the good, 20 page Day 1s?
I thought Paul's joke was funny. And voting him for it? That's weak.
And then the inevitable lynch the lurker discussion. I'm vaguely amazed that Hawkeye is the target rather than me. I'm usually the first one people gun for. Not that I'm complaining mind you.
It's way too early in the game to be talking about lynch the lurker. A couple of RL days is not lurking, it's being busy. It's when it starts spreading out to multiple Days that it's an issue.
I don't think I've ever seen someone vote with the hope of being OMGUS'd. I'm not sure what to make of that.
Ah recruitment. There's not a lot of speculation to be had here is the issue. It could be town recruitment, scum recruitment, third party recruitment, or some combination thereof. Looking at what has been done in the past, I can think of scum recruitment and special Town recruitment, both in the same game in fact. (In The Mafia is Recruiting game, there was one scum to start. Each night they could kill or recruit. Within that same game, there was a Town role that could "recruit", a bishop that could turn vanilla town into Priests or something along those lines. The recruited vanilla were immune to scum recruitment.) Tradtional recruitment is a cult type, which is I believe third party. But until we know more, as in we see a recruiter or recruited person die, or someone claims to have been recruited, we can't gather a whole lot of factual information.
I'm not surprised that there are roles that are immune to recruitment. That seems to be standard fare as well.
I agree with you KidV. A Day 1 ltl vote is terrible. I also agree with you that if I am recruited, I have no issues with outting the person. On the other hand, I fully expect there to be a mechanism in place to prevent that sort of thing. Perhaps not knowing who recruited you.
Man that's it? Weak.
I have two people who are bugging me at the moment. Dire Flying Bovine(or whatever his current name is) has posted a fare amount, but there's nothing really there. It's a lot of fluff and basic mafia things. A common scum tactic to try and hide without really hiding.
The other is pedescribe. It's a bit metagamey, and a bit of gut, but his posts come off as a cross between the above(trying to appear helpful without really saying much) and trying to push ideas that don't really tell us anything or help us. Like that breaking down the list of potential roles. What is that going to do to help us? If someone claims one of those roles, they'll explain it when they do. Really, that kind of discussion seems more useful to scum for false claiming. All that combined, I'm going to put out an intial vote.
Vote: pedescribe
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Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 13:08:50 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Apr 5, 2009 13:08:50 GMT -5
Regarding LTL - I suspect that KatNAF are of the opinion that lurking is a viable strategy (an opinion I agree with). I suspect they've got plans in place to deal with an incident of no participation, and I also suspect that they're going to keep playing those plans close to the vest, in order to prevent megagaming on our part. There's nothing wrong with nudging a player, but on Day One, when said player hasn't even posted yet, they probably aren't even around to see your nudge. When it gets down to 12 hours until Dusk, and your vote is still on the lurking player, what are you going to do? Move your vote on short notice? That accomplishes nothing, in terms of getting players to post, and could lead to poor last-minute decisions. Or you could leave your vote there, neglecting potentially scummier players, which could end up being a waste of a vote, and provide valuable cover for scumvotes. I think there's a difference between using lurkyness as part of a case against a player, and using it as a sole criteria. Speaking purely for myself, I'd like to see those voting for Hawk and other lurkers to state right now what they hope to gain with their vote, and what they're going to do if they don't get it. What a great point to make. It would make it great for scum to lurk and the - last minute - turn up with a wise and substantial post. Making a lot of people changing votes last minute. Regarding "recruitment" - I think I've only played in one game with recruitment (not counting a crazy gastard-game on FB). I'm not sure what to think of it and how would work. I find it interesting that both KidV and Idle seems to fight it so hard. Would that mean that Town recruiting 3rd-part would be impossible?
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 13:24:09 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Apr 5, 2009 13:24:09 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever seen a pro-Town recruitment mechanism, Total. That's not to say it couldn't happen, just that I expect recruitment to be anti-Town until I learn otherwise.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 13:25:43 GMT -5
Post by special on Apr 5, 2009 13:25:43 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever seen a pro-Town recruitment mechanism, Total. That's not to say it couldn't happen, just that I expect recruitment to be anti-Town until I learn otherwise. Mason recruiters are usually pro-town in a manner, by adding someone to the confirmed Mason pool.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 13:26:40 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 5, 2009 13:26:40 GMT -5
Masons sometimes have their own winning conditions, too, and can win separately from Town.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 13:27:18 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Apr 5, 2009 13:27:18 GMT -5
Pointing that out to say: So even that is usually a bad thing.
Any way you look at it, recruitment is usually bad and is a point against Town.
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 13:28:22 GMT -5
Post by special on Apr 5, 2009 13:28:22 GMT -5
Pointing that out to say: So even that is usually a bad thing. Any way you look at it, recruitment is usually bad and is a point against Town. very true, and I've seen rules where if a Mason tries to recruit a Scum, the mason dies. That too, is anti-town
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Day One
Apr 5, 2009 13:28:45 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Apr 5, 2009 13:28:45 GMT -5
Masons sometimes have their own winning conditions, too, and can win separately from Town. That's never happened.
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