Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Apr 21, 2009 1:39:59 GMT -5
Fun playing this game, wish I could stick around longer.
Have fun everyone - see you in the next one!
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Post by The Real FCOD on Apr 21, 2009 8:01:26 GMT -5
using the blood to scrawl out on the floor "I was killed by aaaaaarrrgh..." Look, if he was dying, he wouldn't bother to write "aaaaaarrrgh" He'd just say it! --FCOD
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Post by BillMc on Apr 21, 2009 9:25:28 GMT -5
That isn't really an accident. If I can control the lynch I will. Better my pick than scum's. Even if I have no idea what I'm doing. Obviously, you are going to have to take my word for this. That or lynch me. That's either insulting, or incredibly poor play. If you really believe that your guess is better than anybody/everybody else's, I'm not sure I want you on my team, Hawk. I don't mean to be rude, but your actions at the close of yesterday were equivalent to being a Vig. And a rash one at that. Town wins as a team, not as a bunch of cowboys. I have to strongly echo KidV's sentiments. Hawk you wanted to control the lynch - and you did - you chose to lynch someone the rest of us thought was town - so yes, you were wrong big time. Indeed you have presented no compelling evidence why Paul should have been saved and Mitch condemned. Your style of play is dangerous - with 7 out of 20 dead and not a single scum amongst them, we cannot afford to have such rash anti-town play.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Apr 21, 2009 9:34:26 GMT -5
And I agree with Kid and Bill here. Hawkeye made a huge mistake yesterday, and I think he has to pay for it.
--FCOD
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Post by Almost Human on Apr 21, 2009 9:52:16 GMT -5
As someone who voted for Paul yesterDay I'm a bit torn what to do now. One of the reasons I voted for him was buff's argument about him and Total being in cahoots but that's obviously scotched now. I had voted him before buff's post though so that wasn't my only reason.
Reasons why Hawk may have voted for Mitchy:
Hawk's scum protecting a more powerful scum. Seems unlikely for another scum to sacrifice himself just to gain his partner an extra Day. It hardly seems worth outing himself for that.
Hawk's scum and Paul's town. However, Paul's already under suspicion so by saving him Hawk hopes we'll all lynch Paul the next Day and give scum an extra Day.
Hawk's scum and Paul's scum. Hawk thinks we'll be so focussed on him toDay we'll forget about Paul and end up moving our attention elsewhere on future Days.
Hawk's a jester and needs to be dead by Day 3.
Hawk's town and has no idea what side Paul's on and made a really weird play yesterDay.
I can't see a pro town motivation for it and I don't understand Hawk's reasons for why he did it.
I'm not sure lynching either will give us a better idea about the other so not sure where my vote's going to go yet. Right now nobody else has stood out to me though so chances are I'll be voting for one of them. Just not sure which.
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Post by Hawkmod on Apr 21, 2009 10:08:15 GMT -5
That's either insulting, or incredibly poor play. If you really believe that your guess is better than anybody/everybody else's, I'm not sure I want you on my team, Hawk. I don't mean to be rude, but your actions at the close of yesterday were equivalent to being a Vig. And a rash one at that. Town wins as a team, not as a bunch of cowboys. It isn't about me being better finding scum. If you are town I highly suggest you take any opportunity to dictate the vote you can even if you don't have a good read on the players. The problem with "winning as a team" is that scum are on the team. When there isn't a clear lynch target it is easy for scum to dictate the lynch. If I choose the lynch victim, I know the scum didn't. That doesn't mean I'm right, but it means there is at least a chance.
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Post by Hawkmod on Apr 21, 2009 10:15:06 GMT -5
Save the hyperbole. Voting to lynch a townie isn't being wrong big time, it is part of the game. If Paul comes up town, which I still believe he will, then my move will have had no adverse affect on town.
Actually, with the numbers what they are, it is more imperative that town doesn't let scum control the vote. I don't acknowledge that my action was anti-town. At this point every townie could vote for scum, but if the votes are split, scum can still dictate the lynch.
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Post by KidVermicious on Apr 21, 2009 10:59:08 GMT -5
I vehemently don't agree, Hawk. The collective judgement is going to nearly always be better than any individuals. I understand the desire to be in control, even if wrong, but I think it's selfish to act on it. Do not struggle. You will be ... assimilated. FCOD, I don't think we should be punishing anybody. I think we need to decide if Hawk is scummy or not, and quickly. We're burning Daylight.
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Post by bufftabby on Apr 21, 2009 11:23:48 GMT -5
As someone who voted for Paul yesterDay I'm a bit torn what to do now. One of the reasons I voted for him was buff's argument about him and Total being in cahoots but that's obviously scotched now. I had voted him before buff's post though so that wasn't my only reason. I'm personally still extremely suspicious of paul, as I was even before I suspected he and total were working together. I would be quite happy to vote for paul yet again toDay. But then there's also hawkeyeop, whose vote yesterDay is highly suspect, and whose subsequent explanations ring false to me. His talk yesterDay of how easy it would be for scum to swing onto moody, and then swinging onto moody smacks of setting himself up for "scum would never do that" cred.
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Trepa Mayfield
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Apr 21, 2009 11:27:25 GMT -5
I want to address something said at the end of Day 2:
This is correct; I haven't lied because I am not in a position where lying would be beneficial.
To clarify--in my opinion, there are 3 situations where it is okay to lie as town:
a) If a moderator directly states that you are town b) If you are a mason, another mason has confirmed you as a mason, and another mason has been confirmed by the mod as town c) If an investigator has stated that you investigated as town, and he has been confirmed by the mod as town investigator
Note that b) and c) are really just the transitive property applied to a). Also, unless you have a definite beneficial reason to lie, don't do it.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Apr 21, 2009 11:39:45 GMT -5
That's either insulting, or incredibly poor play. If you really believe that your guess is better than anybody/everybody else's, I'm not sure I want you on my team, Hawk. I don't mean to be rude, but your actions at the close of yesterday were equivalent to being a Vig. And a rash one at that. Town wins as a team, not as a bunch of cowboys. It isn't about me being better finding scum. If you are town I highly suggest you take any opportunity to dictate the vote you can even if you don't have a good read on the players. The problem with "winning as a team" is that scum are on the team. When there isn't a clear lynch target it is easy for scum to dictate the lynch. If I choose the lynch victim, I know the scum didn't. That doesn't mean I'm right, but it means there is at least a chance. And along with deciding to take matters into your own hands comes responsibility. You decided the lynch, you lynched a townie, you should be held responsible. If mitchy had come up scum you'd be basically confirmed in my book. It doesn't work the other way (I don't believe that you are scum necessarily), but your actions seem scummy enough to me to lynch you. --FCOD
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 21, 2009 13:08:57 GMT -5
I've been trying to make sense of Hawkeyeop's action. Remember, his vote was what changed the tiebreak from Paul to Moody; so if any single action is responsible for the change from lynching a player many people found mildly scummy to lynching someone who had no suspicion against them at all and was only a candidate because of a beginner's error, it is Hawkeyeop's vote. I think there are five basic possibilities for Hawk's motivation. - Town, uninformed.
- Town, informed.
- Third party, uninformed.
- Third party, informed.
- Alien.
With Moody's death we can almost rule out Informed Town. The only way this would work now is if Hawkeye knew that Paul was a Town power role and bussed Moody to save Paul. Against this is Paul's claim. He claimed to be vanilla Town, which at least undermines the credibility of future power role claims. In view of that, I'm comfortable with rejecting the idea that Hawkeyeop is an informed Townie. Informed third part and Alien are basically the same motive; that Paul and Hawkeyeop are both in the same group, Hawk (at least) knows it, and Hawk considers Paul to be more important to his group than Hawk is. The only shading is that in one case they are Alien (ie scum) and in the other they are a third-party group, who may or may not be capable of stealing the win from either side. Evidence for the existence of such a group is that Sundry's role reveal gave her alignment as "Temple Member" without referring to her alignment. That's by no means conclusive proof that there is a third party group, but it's a very strong pointer. Uninformed Town or uninformed third party are again fairly similar. In this case we can't tell, from Hawkeyeop's action, whether Paul is Town, Alien or third party. Nothing here rules out the possibility that Paul and Moody were both vanilla Town, just like they said. It's just that if Hawkeyeop is a nonTown role, the chances of Paul also being nonTown rise substantially. The issue I have is that Hawk took a snapshot for either no reason or an anti-Town reason, and neither really sit well with me. he keeps saying that he was acting in the best interests of Town by ensuring that a Townie took the final decision; but right now we don't know the truth of that statement because we don't know that Hawkeyeop is Town.
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Post by KidVermicious on Apr 21, 2009 13:14:28 GMT -5
I'd argue that the reverse is true as well.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 21, 2009 13:43:47 GMT -5
I'd argue that the reverse is true as well.I won't disagree with that. using the blood to scrawl out on the floor "I was killed by aaaaaarrrgh..." Look, if he was dying, he wouldn't bother to write "aaaaaarrrgh"
He'd just say it!
--FCODTell that to Joseph of Arimathea, who's last words were graven in mystic runes on the very living rock of the cave of Caer Bannog. (I think one or both of NAFKat have been thinking about the Holy Grail again...)
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Post by The Real FCOD on Apr 21, 2009 15:25:41 GMT -5
Maybe he was dictating?
--FCOD
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Post by shaggy on Apr 21, 2009 17:54:48 GMT -5
Well after rereading a couple of times the biggest thing that jumps at me for day 2, is what everyone else has seen. The moody lynch. Which I am the last person who should be talking about bone headed moves here, but lynching someone who the only thing againt them was a newbie mistake, just seems wrong. And I know when it comes to this game I am atleast the prince of bone headed moves, but still it just is not sitting right with me. And the further explanations today just raises more eye brow for me then relieve some of the suspicioun. However I do not want to get blinders on and not look at others so for now I am holding my vote so I can re-examine and look at others. Maybe a 3rd time reading will be a charm and I can come up with something more concreate.
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Post by KidVermicious on Apr 21, 2009 18:42:38 GMT -5
K, I've reread Days One and Two, and didn't see anything that I didn't see before.
I'm gonna go ahead and Vote: Paul , tho I'm ok with a Hawkeye lynch too.
Based on the silly kills we've seen, I don't think I'll be ruling out anything as too weird for scum to do.
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Trepa Mayfield
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Apr 21, 2009 19:46:20 GMT -5
I'm still suspicious of Paul, based on yesterday's actions.
Vote: paul
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Apr 21, 2009 22:46:54 GMT -5
First Official Day Three Vote Count:
hawkeye (1) – FCOD paul (2) – KidV, pedescribe
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Post by BillMc on Apr 22, 2009 7:31:25 GMT -5
It's still really bothering me, why hawkeye effectively saved Paul - a supposed vanilla town. With the current death rate, it could have been a scum ploy if both mitchy and paul are town - kill mitchy on day 2, paul on day 3 - and we eventually lynch hawkeye the scum on day 4 -- given our immunizer is dead - by then the whole town could be infected? And I agree with MHaye's analysis. It's a close call between paul and hawkeye, hmm, coin flip Vote: hawkeye
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Apr 22, 2009 17:59:15 GMT -5
Looking at things over and over and over.... and I gotta say I think Hawk was scum making a risky move thinking he could explain away any suspicion.
Think about it.. he stops me from getting lynched and gets another town lynched. He's pretty sure that the people voting for me yesterDay will vote for me again toDay. Plus anyone who gets supicious of him would think we were scum buddies. So he gets a townie lynch with a likely lynch of another townie the next Day... and by Day 4 he has hopefully explained aware enough suspicion to avoid a lynch.
Vote: Hawkeye
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 23, 2009 8:43:44 GMT -5
24 hours with only one post. Nice work guys. That's a first for my games.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 23, 2009 13:43:52 GMT -5
People have been arguing over whether the game setup making one member of a team more important than the others is good design. We do have some precedent for evaluating that question.
I was Deadite recently (in Storyteller's Evil Dead game). Looking at the team composition, you have to say that there was one role that was head-and-shoulders more important than all the rest, and that was Brewha's Most Famous Actor role. He was the Godfather, and the only one of us with powers to use the Evil MacGuffin that fell into our hands. If things had worked out, he'd have been able to spy, generate extra Nightkills from dead SKs, and all sorts of other badness. Beyond that it was arguable whether I or Macey were, long term, more important to the Deadites (I was a Watcher, Macey had possible extra kills).
Basically, if the Aliens have a range of different powers, then some are going to be more valuable to the Aliens than others are, but this might change as the game situation evolves. In our Deadite group, the relative value of JSexton plummeted after he got to kill DarkCookies (Dark Ash was the only player able to kill Ash, which is why Blaster Master's Phantasmal Killer dream failed.) So it's reasonable, at this stage, that the Aliens might have one player's survival taking priority over another; they still have to worry about the situation changing so they need the sacrificial lamb's abilities.
My thinking was that if Hawkeyeop is nonTown this makes no sense unless Paul is a more important member of the same team. I can see the argument that he's trying to hide behind "scum would never do that" but we as a group are not going to assume that is true. We're just too cynical and/or deliberately objective for that.
Then along came Paul and makes a plausible suggestion of how Hawkeyeop may have hoped to get away with such a blatant move. It's reasonable enough that I'm actively thinking about it as a hypothesis again.
As for the posting level, do we have a touch of shock? We've had one-third of the players die in two Days. Personally I think this won't be sustained and there will be less bloodshed in the next couple of Days.I'll be back with a vote, probably late tonight or tomorrow.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Apr 23, 2009 14:32:37 GMT -5
Paul... I agree it is interesting therory about hawkeye...
I know for me, I am trying to look at whole picture and with so few posts, there is little to go on... I really feel like people are hiding....
Thoughts? Come peeps we can't find scum by staying quiet....
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 23, 2009 14:38:06 GMT -5
Paul... I agree it is interesting therory about hawkeye... I know for me, I am trying to look at whole picture and with so few posts, there is little to go on... I really feel like people are hiding.... Thoughts? Come peeps we can't find scum by staying quiet.... No, we can't. Have you any ideas based on the previous Days?
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Post by bufftabby on Apr 23, 2009 16:35:54 GMT -5
Apologies for my absence; my blackberry has bitten the dust, severely limiting my internet time. 3 thumbs down.
I want to go ahead and Vote: Paul . I am also very okay with a hawkeye lynch. I hope to have my connectivity issues resolved by the end of the Day, but I can't guarantee how much more I'll be around toDay.
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Post by MiteyMouse on Apr 23, 2009 17:02:00 GMT -5
I'm sorry...the in laws were here! I have glued my hair back on and am going to Vote: hawk
I did not like the lynch of Mitchy at all. 2 votes should never make a lynch.
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Post by shaggy on Apr 23, 2009 18:08:28 GMT -5
Sorry for not posting much, my parents were visiting.
Well I am going to vote hawk For the fact that I just do not like the lynching of moody yesterday. And the explanation today just makes me more suspicious.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Apr 23, 2009 18:24:38 GMT -5
Paul... I agree it is interesting therory about hawkeye... I know for me, I am trying to look at whole picture and with so few posts, there is little to go on... I really feel like people are hiding.... Thoughts? Come peeps we can't find scum by staying quiet.... No, we can't. Have you any ideas based on the previous Days? Not at the moment... I was out at a funeral this afternoon and now it is time to make diner...
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Apr 23, 2009 19:01:48 GMT -5
24 hour warning:
hawkeye (5) – FCOD, BillMc, paul, Mitey, shaggy paul (3) – KidV, pedescribe, bufftabby
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