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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 14:34:51 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Apr 28, 2009 14:34:51 GMT -5
Telling everyone I could be recruited makes me an unappetizing target for recruitment since I'm not going to survive to the end game. Scum won't recruit someone who's on the short list for lynching. Also note that I am hoping someone can protect me from recruitment. <snip> My self protection extends to all Night kills, including scum. This is the primary risk of lynching me, because of the obvious advantages to the Town if a night-kill-resistant pro-Town player survives to end game. The two underlined statements are direct contradictions. If there is someone who could protect you from recruitment wouldn't that person's protection be better utilized protecting someone who doesn't come with all of your liabilities? On a side note I'm pretty sure I understand why sachertorte wants to wait until day 2 to lynch you. But really if I could figure it out, scum can too.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 15:08:21 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Apr 28, 2009 15:08:21 GMT -5
Has anyone even thought about what the usual default is to someone asking to be lynched? First thing Pleo does is claim and say it's in towns best interest to lynch me, and no one brings up that he could be a jester? Z, knock it off... she's obviously still flustered from the beating we gave her and the rest of the town last game.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 15:26:26 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Apr 28, 2009 15:26:26 GMT -5
FCOD, Is the thread titled "Internet" for nonplayers? I'm guessing so, but want to be sure.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 15:29:49 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Apr 28, 2009 15:29:49 GMT -5
I did actually consider that Pleo might be a jester. Quite frankly, I don't care. I think the role is a stupid one and the win, should it occur, empty.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 15:45:26 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Apr 28, 2009 15:45:26 GMT -5
FCOD, Is the thread titled "Internet" for nonplayers? I'm guessing so, but want to be sure. I thought the Unspoiled Discussion label was sufficient, but there I made it more clear for ya. --FCOD
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 15:53:04 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Apr 28, 2009 15:53:04 GMT -5
Thank you.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 15:59:32 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 28, 2009 15:59:32 GMT -5
Telling everyone I could be recruited makes me an unappetizing target for recruitment since I'm not going to survive to the end game. Scum won't recruit someone who's on the short list for lynching. Also note that I am hoping someone can protect me from recruitment. <snip> My self protection extends to all Night kills, including scum. This is the primary risk of lynching me, because of the obvious advantages to the Town if a night-kill-resistant pro-Town player survives to end game. The two underlined statements are direct contradictions. If there is someone who could protect you from recruitment wouldn't that person's protection be better utilized protecting someone who doesn't come with all of your liabilities? Oh, good. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed the contradiction, though I will admit I found it less contradictory at first than just confusing. I would like to echo sinjin's question. @fcoh, I had the same problem as paul. So apparently it wasn't clear enough. Or I need to work on my reading comprehension. @paul about being flustered.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 16:14:29 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Apr 28, 2009 16:14:29 GMT -5
Sorry Sis... I haven't had much chance to revel in my success. I'll not do it again.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 16:33:47 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Apr 28, 2009 16:33:47 GMT -5
Assigning motivation to Roosh in this context is very difficult since a) I had already started joking around with the length of Day and Night poll and b) I don't know if Roosh was or was not knowledgeable about Day Talking scum when he made his 12 hour Night suggestion. Anyway, the suggestion of a 12 hour Night caught my eye so I'm documenting those thoughts here. For what it's worth, I didn't see that scum could day talk as well when I made that suggestion. That said, I would have said the same thing if I was scum. So :shrug: Yeah. If you want to believe me, thanks, if not, that's your prerogative as well, I suppose. Though I must say: Bad Coyote! In no way does my statement make me more townie or more scummy. It was a statement that I would have made regardless of alignment, and one can spin it to go either way. Though it's nice to see WHO spins it which way, no? And Sach, a pleasure to play with you. It's been a long while if even ever. Not sure if you played in Blade Runner, but that's where I recall you best for some reason. That said, I completely agree with you here: Anyone who is nightkill resistant should keep that information secret. Pleonast could have easily stated his claim and left out the part of being nightkill resistant. The only people I can see claiming to be nightkill resistant are people who are NOT night kill resistant. Not that that gives an indication of Pleonast's alignment. :taps nose: Yeah. I did that in the Firefly game with the NK Resistance issue. Always a fun gambit. In this game, we have power roles and we do not know their powers. So I am not fully against the idea of power roles using deception to WIFOM the scum. I know MOST of you disagree with that. So yeah, that's fine with me. We don't need to get into a pointless argument over it. I just think it's applicable in some cases. So... yeah. Fun times.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 16:35:33 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Apr 28, 2009 16:35:33 GMT -5
:)Fluff Guys, WHY NOT JUST LYNCH the one that's a GIANT HORSE?? I swear! How hard can it be? Just look for the one... that looks like a HORSE! Four legs... goes cloppity-cloppity... smells like hay. Come ON, PEOPLE! Okay, I just wanted to get that out of my system. Back to the game.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 16:37:32 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Apr 28, 2009 16:37:32 GMT -5
Also, Jesters are silly roles, and if anyone's a plain jester able to kill himself so easily... then the Mod is an untalented hack of an idiot. Plain and simple.
I'd like to think FCOD is better than that in a game like this. But :shrug: yeah, Jesters deserve hollow victories if all it takes is "get lynched" to win.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 16:42:37 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Apr 28, 2009 16:42:37 GMT -5
Telling everyone I could be recruited makes me an unappetizing target for recruitment since I'm not going to survive to the end game. Scum won't recruit someone who's on the short list for lynching. Also note that I am hoping someone can protect me from recruitment. <snip> My self protection extends to all Night kills, including scum. This is the primary risk of lynching me, because of the obvious advantages to the Town if a night-kill-resistant pro-Town player survives to end game. The two underlined statements are direct contradictions. If there is someone who could protect you from recruitment wouldn't that person's protection be better utilized protecting someone who doesn't come with all of your liabilities? On a side note I'm pretty sure I understand why sachertorte wants to wait until day 2 to lynch you. But really if I could figure it out, scum can too. I guess I don't see the contradiction. The fact that I've chosen to make myself likely to be lynched doesn't reduce my end-game threat to scum by being hard to kill. My assumption (based on my role pm) is that there's something unique about my role that makes me susceptible to recruitment. I'm hoping there is some other role for which, if used properly, will reduce or eliminate the possibility of me being recruited. As long as I'm not recruited, I don't care when (or if) I'm lynched. But unless I'm sure I won't be recruited, I'd rather be killed while I'm still Town.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 17:28:23 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 28, 2009 17:28:23 GMT -5
Though I must say: Bad Coyote! In no way does my statement make me more townie or more scummy. It was a statement that I would have made regardless of alignment, and one can spin it to go either way. I never said it made you more Town or less Town, just that the action in and of itself seemed pro-Town to me until I realized that Day Talk was part of the game. sachertorte seems to be assuming that I think pro-Town actions are the same thing as being Town, which I don't. I freely acknowledge that pro-Town actions do not a Townie make, and I'm kind of done trying to clear this up for people because it's not getting us anywhere as far as finding Scum. Nice? I think I'd choose interesting, but YMMV.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 18:55:12 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Apr 28, 2009 18:55:12 GMT -5
This might be a stupid idea/question, but: Why not have any theoretical Vig try to kill Pleo? If it doesn't succeed, it gives weight to the NK resistant claim. If it does succeed, it gets rid of a role that Pleo claims is anti-Town without using up a lynch. And, it's not as much of a "waste" of a Vig kill as it might seem, because this early in the game, a Vig is shooting as blind as the rest of us.
(Keeping in mind that even if he survives a Vig kill, that doesn't mean his alignment, or any of the rest of his claim is true. Or even that he's NK resistant: It could mean that scum have a protective role.)
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 19:01:08 GMT -5
Post by special on Apr 28, 2009 19:01:08 GMT -5
This might be a stupid idea/question, but: Why not have any theoretical Vig try to kill Pleo? If it doesn't succeed, it gives weight to the NK resistant claim. If it does succeed, it gets rid of a role that Pleo claims is anti-Town without using up a lynch. And, it's not as much of a "waste" of a Vig kill as it might seem, because this early in the game, a Vig is shooting as blind as the rest of us. (Keeping in mind that even if he survives a Vig kill, that doesn't mean his alignment, or any of the rest of his claim is true. Or even that he's NK resistant: It could mean that scum have a protective role.) or that we don't have a Vig (a failed Vig kill would look the same as no Vig) or that our Vig decided not to kill Pleo or our Vig is one-shot or remorseful
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 19:20:44 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Apr 28, 2009 19:20:44 GMT -5
Well, the theoretical Vig would know whether he/she took a shot at Pleo, and could reveal it at some point (if he/she claims for some reason...but he/she should absolutely, positively not claim just to reveal this). My point (which I think I lost somewhere) was that, if there is a Vig (normal Vig, not one-shot/remorseful), and he/she doesn't have a good target, what is the argument against him/her targeting Pleo?
That they might fail? Like I said above, it will give (one person) information that touches on Pleo's claim.
If there's no Vig, we're no worse off toMorrow than we would be if we decide toDay to go with the suggestion the lynch Pleo on Day 2.
I would like a bit of clarification of Pleo's request that he be lynched at some point, because it would be a waste for a Vig to target him. I don't think it's automatically a waste (only the Vig can decide that for sure). And unless we lynch him toDay, I think that a (regular) Vig (if we have one) should at least consider him as a target, because (if it succeeds) we save a lynch.
I hate having to put in all these freaking conditionals, but if it makes Ed happy.
I have the Laundry Day song in my head now, just so you know.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 19:24:24 GMT -5
Post by special on Apr 28, 2009 19:24:24 GMT -5
I hate having to put in all these freaking conditionals, but if it makes Ed happy. more than you can imagine. Ok, not that much, but enough ;D
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 19:28:20 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Apr 28, 2009 19:28:20 GMT -5
Here, have a cookie.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 19:41:08 GMT -5
Post by zlw on Apr 28, 2009 19:41:08 GMT -5
Since you offered I'll take that cookie, taco and a knife to stab that kitten thank you.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 19:51:23 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Apr 28, 2009 19:51:23 GMT -5
Vote RooshBecause I feel like it. I'm trying to work up the urge to care about Pleonast's claim. Working...working....working...failing. Nope, don't care. Big ol' glass of FWiFoM.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 19:55:43 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Apr 28, 2009 19:55:43 GMT -5
or that we don't have a Vig (a failed Vig kill would look the same as no Vig) or that our Vig decided not to kill Pleo or our Vig is one-shot or remorseful Well, if we had a Vig then at least two of those options can be dealt with. The existance of a Vig can rule out the first hypothesis, and if he does try to kill pleo, then well, he can at least vouch for ONE part of Pleo's existance should he himself be facing the gallows. And then if Pleo admits "Ah ha! But I lied, I am not resistant!" Then we know we have a lying a Vig on our hands and therefore we have an easy kill there, so there's always that fun WIFOM for the Scum to worry about and for the Vig to help with his own issues of proving himself. If our Vig chooses NOT to kill pleo. -Well, I suppose if he finds someone scummier, he can always take a shot in the dark, but right now it seems we have a player here who is ripe for the testing, but :shrug: if they find someone scummier or most deserving than the guy that says he's kinda not killable at night, and wants to die. :shrug: go for it. Blood's on their hands though. If they accept that, then go for it. If our Vig is a one shot- well then, all bets are off. I don't think a Vig should be forced to use his one shot on this, or be dictated by us on what to do then. If the Vig has access to other information/conditions then so be it. They know more than we do and should act accordingly. Though, here's MY paranoid thought: In games I've played with Recruitment, it's always the SCUM had to go out and FIND the players to recruit. I mean, sure there's accessory mechanisms (which would be perfect for this game with X player dying or Y action occurring), but usually, the stand for recruitment is Scum do a NK, but they're also trying to find a specific person to recruit from the crowd of people. (I believe Atarus was like this in the Xmen Mafia Game as Toad, but I didn't really play that game more than a Day so my memory may be off, and I know that's how one of the Mafia people in the Batman Mafia was triggered- Scum had to ACTIVELY find him to recruit him). That's why I'm worried about this supposedly pro-town action of yours, Pleo. Because you've painted a HUGE TARGET on yourself now to be recruited, and it's all good and well you want to die a noble death as a townie, but if the scum just choose to add you to their numbers, then it's basically up to us to waste a lynch and a debate on you while scum would get another free Day/Night cycle to operate as you go to the Gallows instead. Or if your recruitment would give them extra powers or something. That's what I'm worried about. So yeah, I'm curious as to why you think it's so pro-town for you claim toDay. Because if by toNight you just get recruited by scum, won't it have been all in vain? It would have been better to keep your mouth quiet and try to blend in as needed. This claim feels a bit selfish to me. Especially with the whole "I don't know what I'll appear, but I want to win with the Town!" sort of appeal. Because, I don't See you as telling us when you're turned..... And if there's ever a non-kill... well, I guess the claiming this early doesn't sit well with me. So a question, Pleo:Your recruitment- do you believe it happens at Night or do you think/know it's based on an Event (which is the only logical reason I'd think of claiming the way you have)? Because if the scum just recruit you toNight, are we going to have to go through this sort of debate every Day with wondering if some scum just had to target you and that's all it takes for you to be recruited, or do you believe it's a more complex mechanism than that?
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 20:10:19 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Apr 28, 2009 20:10:19 GMT -5
Though, here's MY paranoid thought: In games I've played with Recruitment, it's always the SCUM had to go out and FIND the players to recruit. I mean, sure there's accessory mechanisms (which would be perfect for this game with X player dying or Y action occurring), but usually, the stand for recruitment is Scum do a NK, but they're also trying to find a specific person to recruit from the crowd of people. (I believe Atarus was like this in the Xmen Mafia Game as Toad, but I didn't really play that game more than a Day so my memory may be off, and I know that's how one of the Mafia people in the Batman Mafia was triggered- Scum had to ACTIVELY find him to recruit him). Actually, in X-Men Mafia, Toad had to find the scum: From the Toad PM: Once per Night, you may investigate any player, in an effort to determine whether that player is a Horseman. If at any time during the game, a Horseman dies and you have already, previously discovered him or her, you may take his place among the ranks of the scum. Once there, you will be able to carry out Night kills on behalf of the scum, participate in their discussions, and count toward their win condition.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 20:52:31 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Apr 28, 2009 20:52:31 GMT -5
So a question, Pleo:Your recruitment- do you believe it happens at Night or do you think/know it's based on an Event (which is the only logical reason I'd think of claiming the way you have)? Because if the scum just recruit you toNight, are we going to have to go through this sort of debate every Day with wondering if some scum just had to target you and that's all it takes for you to be recruited, or do you believe it's a more complex mechanism than that? I don't have any information about recruitment, because I am deducing my susceptibility to it from the wording of my pm. I may be wrong that I can be recruited. The scum could choose to recruit me, but I don't think they will because 1) I am now a prime lynch target and have a short expected lifetime and 2) if there is a player that can stop my recruitment, there is a definite possibility they are doing so. Basically, I am forcing the scum into a huge WIFOM. This benefits the Town more than it hurts it. I've told you the threat; I can be lynched any time.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 23:09:58 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Apr 28, 2009 23:09:58 GMT -5
I like the idea of leaving Pleonast alive and having the vigilante, if there is one, and they are not remorseful or a one-shot, targeting him. If Pleonast survives until tomorrow then we'll deal with it tomorrow.
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Day One
Apr 29, 2009 7:49:23 GMT -5
Post by zlw on Apr 29, 2009 7:49:23 GMT -5
I don't care for the claim. Full claim totally, go take your place in the lynch line or something. You opened up absolutely nothing for town with that claim, nothing I can think of anyway. If I was a investigator I wouldn't investigate him. If I was the guardian I wouldn't protect him. If I was the vigilante I wouldn't try to off him. All because scum could have a watcher. He is not worth the loss of a town power role when we can just lynch him at our leisure (sooner rather than later I would hope)
You have a claim that is impossible to confirm short of your death, in later game you don't belong in the confirmed by evidence list, you remain in the unconfirmed unknown list one more spot for scum to hide in.
Since I knew nothing of a "jester" until I went googling for it. I cannot say much though, because I don't know roles real well in the game so I have said my piece and I will move on for now.
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Day One
Apr 29, 2009 8:16:35 GMT -5
Post by special on Apr 29, 2009 8:16:35 GMT -5
Since I knew nothing of a "jester" until I went googling for it. I cannot say much though, because I don't know roles real well in the game so I have said my piece and I will move on for now. check here for a list of possible roles www.sitesled.com/members/mikeburnfire/mafiascum04.swfbut be aware that the list is not exhaustive
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Day One
Apr 29, 2009 13:51:23 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 29, 2009 13:51:23 GMT -5
Since you offered I'll take that cookie, taco and a knife to stab that kitten thank you. Hm. So if I vote for ZLW based on the whole stabbing a kitten thing, which may or may not be Town but certainly isn't nice, would that register with people as OMGUS? Or just as the jest it would be meant to be? Can't be sure, therefore I won't do it. But I will talk about it with my outside voice. You know, pleo's soft-claim sure has us talking about him, but not so much about finding Scum. And, finally Vote Pollux Scared Stupidfor: belatedly entering the thread with a random vote on RoOsH when there's been plenty to talk about, even if PSS doesn't care about pleo's soft-claim.
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Day One
Apr 29, 2009 14:41:44 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Apr 29, 2009 14:41:44 GMT -5
Vote: SisC
For voting someone for casting a joke vote when there is so much to talk about.
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Day One
Apr 29, 2009 15:29:43 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Apr 29, 2009 15:29:43 GMT -5
I want to post this Pleo post from Night zero, especially since Pleo has decided to claim almost instantaneously. Can you elaborate why you wanted to post this? Only thing I see is that the 'multiple Day kill' is a bit over dramatic (you get a warning first time and might be subbed instead of mod killed). The claim is a big WIFOM, but I don't see it as a 'lynch me quick so Cow has to mod kill a lot of people'.
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Day One
Apr 29, 2009 15:35:32 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 29, 2009 15:35:32 GMT -5
Why do you think that was a joke vote, paul? The whole post seemed serious enough to me. Admittedly, I don't know PSS, maybe this sort of terse vote-only with worthless commentary is standard operating procedure for him.
I'm not trying to stifle discussion; but PSS has but one post. And his comment about not caring about pleo isn't encouraging others to discuss whatever it is that he thinks is more important than pleo's claim, just expressing boredom. That doesn't seem very pro-Town to me.
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